View Full Version : The Emirates FACTS thread (merged)

16th Feb 2005, 13:17
There's a lot of rubbish that's been written about Emirates here, both positive and negative, that is giving an incorrect impression. I think it's best if we stick to the facts. Rumours, such as only 2 out of 16 pilots turning up on their start day, are affecting all of us that work here as well as influencing those thta do want to join up. So sticking with the facts, here's a couple to dwell on.

Emirates are now suffering record numbers of pilots off sick. This is a coroborated fact and is, I believe, due to the extensive duties that are now being performed. Ultra long haul without the correct rest facilities, back to back duties involving combined rest days, only eight days off a month with duty months of well over 100 hours not uncommon. Trip patterens that can involve travelling from New Zealand to the US (The long way around!) with just a few days in between to recover before setting off again. No wonder many of the guys are sick.

Leave allocations for the forthcoming year cannot be given due to the available number of leave slots being full. Many pilots have been unable to have their annual entitlement awarded and have had to carry the leave forward.

If any other Emirates pilots have facts that they wish to share, please add to this thread.

Plank Cap
16th Feb 2005, 13:35
Next Fact:

I flew last night arriving home this morning. I slept as much as I could - 4 hours.
I am rostered to fly again tonight.
In accordance with the Ops Manual requirement to ensure I am well rested prior to flying, chapter 21 paragraph 1.1, I shall not be reporting for duty this evening.
Sorry to all on standby, just can't take any more...........

16th Feb 2005, 15:16
Have been working over 100 hours every month in last 7 months.
Have been shafted with reserves and support sims after filled credit monthly limit when new payscam started.
Have been awarded 14 days of leave after personal intervention. Still have over 70 days to burn from previous years. No leaves for a third of drivers this year, so don't worry about bond in your contracts.
Constantly being rostered or called out on stby for long haul (ozz then NY) with 2 nights in between.
Spent 4 hours in suicidal traffic because had to pick up my passport in Ek office on my only day off in a week.
Called sick and slept for 3 days when I couldn't take it any more.
Will not be biologically able to work under such conditions for much longer. And it is going to get much worse. In the near future.

16th Feb 2005, 16:21

Managed to get 42 days leave this year,some of which first choice.
This months roster,3 europeans( deadhead on 2),2 very short turnrounds,2 standbys,5 days leave and 11 days off.

Just trying to balance the scales of doom & gloom!

Points noted,however,on this ultra longhaul flying and the lack of sufficient rest.Something really is going to have to be done if this Company wants to avoid half its Pilots off on long term Fatigue/Chronic stress and it's going to get worse by the sounds of it.Speaking to a Cathay Pilot in Jakarta recently,they get min 3 days off after any trip,4 days for the longer ones and 5 for the ultra longhaul.That's what we need! Friend just recently did back to back London with 14 hrs rest in Dubai. 2nd departure was middle of night! Aren't the EK Clinic supposed to get involved in this or are they there to treat the fatigue rather than prevent it.
I guess that if you pay the fiddler,he plays the tune that YOU want eh?

16th Feb 2005, 16:57
Just a question out of intrest:

on the long haul and ultra long haul flights, how do you guys deal with FT/DT limitations? Heavy crew? Third pilot? Blocked seats where and how? Crew bunks? What about the cabin crew?

Just asking because it seems to become a big BIG problem and as we all know, we are just a couple of months behind in copying your shedules?

Good luck guys and plse continue to publish those facts. I am sure we here at QR will follow.

Banzai Eagle
16th Feb 2005, 18:55
I'm paxing LGW-DXB on Monday 21/2 on EK. Is the LGW trip a 24 hr stopover or more?.

16th Feb 2005, 19:13
All Emirates European flights involve the crew laying over at the destination for between 22 and 26 hours.

16th Feb 2005, 23:00
The pace just sucks!

...any questions?

17th Feb 2005, 01:04
How long are ya layovers in Sydney?

Anyone flying out of syd to dubai on the 16th march?
Im on that flight.


17th Feb 2005, 03:35
dxb-syd-dxb 36hrs
dxb-syd-akl-syd dxb 24hrs in syd
Mar blocks not out til @ 25th
New shed coming for mar with additional 777
FTL for 4 pilot have a sep Ops Plan, in theory no limit

17th Feb 2005, 04:48

Good theory but sadly this is PPrumourNE and anyone can write anything they like (Just like the Sunday Sport - Grandmother has alien baby!). You and I both know that 90% of the things that go on in any company are not known by those at the coalface. In EK it is probably even less than that because all of the pilots have been squeezed out of office jobs so that they can get them on the line flying.

Fact - EK are short of pilots! BYMONEK before you start saying but look at my roster, 30 days off and one trip to El Dorado I will caveat that by saying but not in all categories. It seems clear that the 340 does not have enough pilots to allow for a sensible working pattern but that may be by design. It could be argued that a decision may have been taken that paying a few pilots overtime is less costly than hiring new pilots. The reduction in flight hours recorded for augmented operations would appear to support this arguement. Alternatively we might be struggling to recruit pilots, maybe that is where the 777 rumour comes from. Whichever of these it is will determine whether, and how quickly, things will improve.

The thing I notice is that on the 330 some of the F/Os are pretty laid back and not working too hard. On the 340 some are being worked ridiculously; sadly the bidding system was supposed to protect us but doesn't. If you get the right roster (are senior enough) you can end up with overtime, days off and a decent quality of life. If not minimum days off are the order of the day. The fatigue (heart factor) model was removed from the bidding system, as I understand it, because we would have needed a lot more pilots to crunch the numbers. Wasn't there a doc who was in charge of fatigue? It was in the outer marker, trumpets blarring. It might be an interesting exercise to run the bidding system again with the heart factor applied to see whether there are any conflicts.

The problem must be starting to be noticed by the powers that be, I read that CPA had given us all thanks for working through 'unprecedented levels of sickness' at the end of last year. Now some of that might have been down to 'an unusually cold winter' but some was probably due to fatigue.

Sorry only one fact and some conjecture to try and make sense of it.

Ghost :zzz:

17th Feb 2005, 09:11
I think you must not have been here for a long time just like me, and you have not realized that even the EK contract is not a fact but rather a rumour as it changes as more and more people get involved with it... Therefore it is only appropriate that the lads write about facts that are rumours or rumours that are facts since all this stems from the ultimate rumour/fact which is the contract.

Allas though TCAS is about to change this with his communication network to come in place soon, so when you do get shafted in the future you will know about it for a fact not hear the rumour first.....:D :D

40 days to go....

Not from here
17th Feb 2005, 10:31
In EK hours for augmented crews are factored on a 4 man crew only 2/3rds count to your max limit of 100 hrs in 28 days and in the case of a 3 man crew ¾ is used.
The consequent is many A330/340 crews well over 100 hrs in 28days last month I did 104 in 22days, but as it was spread of 2 months and leave and ground duties added in, no overtime paid. With the loss of flying credit for leave and ground duties this also means if you take leave you have to make up the flying credit, in my case 8 days leave taken at the end of the month I did 79 hrs in 17 days with 3 days during and 3 days off prior to leave. Under the old system this was 101 credit. Thou the company deny it is doing it on purpose!!!!!
The latest rumor is with the change to the SYD/ AKL pattern B777 doing AKL via BKK, SYD. A340 crew (4 man) to operate DXB/ SYD Duty 1520 arr SYD 0645.
Rest 13:55 Depart same day 2110 SYD/DXB Duty 1605.
Wonder what annex that’s under??????

Plank Cap
17th Feb 2005, 11:32
Does any other major player in the airline world use this outrageous method of factorising flying hours?

17th Feb 2005, 11:39
Annex is........ You fly them... not me... shut up or ship out.
You have one "right" and that is to go sick and then walk off the job.
There is a lot of "Premature mortality in your rosters" I think they know it and I know if they care with no crews they will do nothying about it.
It was the same in Gulf Air in 1982 when a Doctor told me all of this.
The insurance companies do not know it (yet) so you should if you wish to provide for your family insure your life heavily and fly these rosters as they will certainly kill you off, before a long and happy retirement at the new age of 65?
They are all heart and the pilots are on the wrong end of a shitty stick.
If you do not like your roster tell them and walk.

17th Feb 2005, 12:21
That will come under the Authorities brown envelope Annex 1.1 pg 1


Operators requiring deviations should contact the Authority in advance. Authority for a deviation will only be granted once the Operators flight pattern has been approved by the Authorities’ Inspectors from a suitable first class seat. This Seat shall be available to the inspector and any member his family at any time and to any destination fee of charge.

The Authority reserves the right to reduce rest periods, extend duty times, extend total flying hour limits and generally reduce safety until receipt of the Operators official request for approval. Such requests will only be granted when the Authority receives such requests in suitably padded brown envelopes, all submissions must have a resemblance of George Washington embossed on the submission, be submitted on light green paper 3" * 5"

Only Forms of the $100 series will be accepted.

All Submissions must contain a minimum of 500 original copies.

Copies of the Operators submissions and request for approval can be Fast Tracked, when the number of copies of the application significantly exceeds the minimum number of copies given above.


17th Feb 2005, 13:56
Not from here

I'd like to know who the operating Captain was on your Sydney and gently remind him to look at the min rest requirements. Min rest is 12 hours at base (12.30 after chocks on) If your duty is longer than 12 hours then your rest has to be increased to match the amount of time you've been on duty ie 15hr20min duty requires rest of 15hr20min.This has nothing to do with factorizing so they can't reduce it because there were 4 Pilots.It's the DUTY time that counts NOT flight duty period. If your facts are correct,that flight operated back illegally!


As you say,I can only comment from my perspective and I know it can vary amongst the fleet.There is still plenty of white left on the leave bids for B777. I wish I did have 30 days off although in February that might be difficult eh?

2 questions;

1) Heard that we now get credit for sim support?
2) I thought that the hours factorizing was only applicable for the time to enter log book for stick time etc.not interpreted the way that EK have to allow more flying a month.I am not familiar with the ultra longhaul 'yet' but this question should be asked on the main forum to see what the other Airlines do!:suspect:

18th Feb 2005, 01:54
Perhaps all you passengers out there that croon about emirates service will maybe give a thought in future to how safe the flight is with the pilots knackered and very pi##ed off.

Anti Skid On
18th Feb 2005, 06:40
Indeed Frangatang. I was under the impression that most EK crews did DBX-SYD, overnighted and did the next days SYD-AKL-SYD, overnighted again, and then did the SYD-DBX , meaning 3 - 4 days from base (and ditto for MEL and BNE) - I am a bit horrified by the rosters being posted.

18th Feb 2005, 08:38
Now, now everyone... SOOOO much negativity!

Don't forget Dubai is a pearl, EK a GREAT employer, and the sun ALWAYS shines! (Although it's been raining lately)

18th Feb 2005, 08:51
WRT syd/akl/mel the pattern has not changed yet crew A 36 off Crew B 24 then to Akl
Personnally I would love to do 4 crew Syd 15 off and 4crew back

20th Feb 2005, 07:33
Off the topic here..

Any young Ek pilots here? ie.. under 30. I fly for an australian airline and most of us are in the 25-30 bracket.

Were all young and full of energy.. Able to work the hours that emirates put on their pilots. Maybe retirement should go back to 50? You old guys can't even move the speed break lever because your all overweight and have athritis in your hands..

Any Australian Emirates pilots? Pls msg me..

20th Feb 2005, 07:54
Being young is not a qualification, all us old fellows have been there, you have not yet been "older". Does "Full of energy" equate to being full of piss and wind??


In the slot
20th Feb 2005, 07:55

Either you are trying to stir people up for a laugh, or you are very naiive and uninformed.....either way it does not reflect well on you.......

I suggest you try flying long and medium haul accross multiple time zones, with consecutive flight patterns crossing to Europe, the USA, and Asia, then you might start to understand what is being discussed. You would soon realise that being 18 years old would not help you as much as you think, let alone mid to late 20's.

I suggest you finalise your retirement plans, seeing as you yourself will be retiring by the age of 50, as by then you too will be incapable of climbing the steps into the crew bus. (Thats if your stupid comments have not inspired someone to break both your legs before you reach that age).

20th Feb 2005, 08:00

yes...there are many Australians here, thankfully not many have the same attitude you do.

As far as your age, I will accept that you are young, and I know you are full of SOMETHING. Although I am one of those approaching 50, I am sure I could take one of my arthritic hands, place it around your young, scrawny neck and squeeze the living sh*t out of you. Not all of us are fat and out of shape.

Come on in, the water is fine...

20th Feb 2005, 09:39
I love the replys..

No.. im not a nasty person. And if you were a bit more professional you would ignore my stupid comments rather than reply back with abuse.

My whole point is..

Everyone here is complaining about this and that.. long hours.. under pay.. no sleep.. no holidays.. blah blah blah...

You should be greatful that you have a job, food to eat and water to drink. There are many pilots out there trying to get into the industry. Being a pilot is not a 9-5 job and you have to expect the long hours, little sleep, etc. If you dont like the industry.. LEAVE. It's as simple as that. I have a freind who flys for emirates, and I agree they push their pilots to the limits, but with their ever expanding fleet, increased routes and a shortage of pilots, you'de have to expect that it is only temporary.

You all sound like a bunch of women. (although women do make good pilots)

20th Feb 2005, 09:53
Well Bandyo's remember the Aussie mantra "slip, slop,slap",( to do with sun protection- or maybe how to treat the Shelias) I think that you should give it a try as the sun has fried what little brains that you have......

20 or 3 times that -- you would still be f*****d after some of our more colourful rostering practices....

cargo boy
20th Feb 2005, 10:46
Loks like Bantios is one of those enthusiastic wannabes who has recently landed his first jet job on a B737. Of course, with his ultra long haul experience in that aircraft type and something a mate of a mate of a mate who works for Emirates mentioned to him, he is now in a position to pontificate on how all the experienced pilots should go for early retirement so the likes him can get a job flying the glamorous heavy metal to exotic destinations.

His time will come and I'll bet a pound to a penny that within a year or two of flying real (as opposed to fantasy) long haul, he'll either be on here whingeing about the debilitating effects of repetitive circadian disruption or else he'll be too knackered and give us all a break from his sage advice! :rolleyes:

20th Feb 2005, 10:47
I currently fly with a well known british airline and i have always wanted to work for emirates. After reading this post i am all the more determined to join emirates...that exhuastive schedule sounds fun :ok::D

Hotel Charlie
20th Feb 2005, 10:55
You should be greatful that you have a job,

bantios, it´s the likes of you that are taking this profession to even lower levels! :yuk:

20th Feb 2005, 11:17
if you dont like the industry.. LEAVE

Woah, hold on. Yes, I do want to LEAVE.....not leave the Industry...but leave to a Better Company! I LOVE flying :ok: (but I'm not in EK)

Anyway, a hectic life and roster is not only at Emirates.... for example it's a natural fact for the low cost carriers. Just the way it is. But there are other better full service airlines to go to (even for Emirates pilots)

bantios, I'm sure they are all big boys and girls at EK that CAN handle the heat. But I do understand that they just wouldn't want to take it on a permanant basis and have a condition that is supposed to be better for the airline that it is. If they were in a low cost carrier...they'll still b1tch and moan, believe me... But that's just the facts of life. And they'll look to improve their present comapany, or move to another one.

20th Feb 2005, 11:39
Bantios you remind me so much of all the newbies joining this industry, and I've seen hundreds in my time. Hell, I was a newbie too ya know!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I meet a newbie like you.

On the one hand - you're a reminder to us all, how naiive and starry eyed we were when getting into the business.

On the other hand, I can't help but suppress a hollow laugh when I contemplate the lessons you are soon to learn.

Good luck. :hmm:

20th Feb 2005, 14:00
Did you learn to butcher the English language all by yourself 'bantios' ? If your grammar is as good as your flying ability then go ahead and pull that speed 'break' lever. We will be 'greatful' when 'freinds' like you flush after themselves.
Damn athritis.

20th Feb 2005, 14:40
Gotta be a wind up, nobody's that stupid.......Then again maybe not:confused:

20th Feb 2005, 14:58
Alright, may I suggest we give him a break.
bantios, sorry, this forum can be quite unforgiving, take it all in it's stride mate. But it's all serious points.

Now back to the Emirates thread...

21st Feb 2005, 04:39

Yes I am a newbie in the industry and I'm stupid and dumb, and arrogant. I love the replies you guys give. Thanks. It only grows me stronger as a person everyday.

Anyway, I am off to another flight. Time to punch some more buttons, do some calculations and engage my A/P, kick back and relax and eat the cheap n nasty food I get on board.

I do wish it was like back in the days on the 727.. Now thats real flying.

You guys still use a periscopic sextant?

Have a lovely day..

Left Coaster
21st Feb 2005, 05:57
Any one remember Bound_For_Dubai? I think he's back with another alias. His posts read at about the same age and maturity level....
BFD is that you?

Val d'Isere
21st Feb 2005, 06:34
You guys shoud engage the "Ignore posts from this poster" function and get on with the interesting Emirates info, please.........it's an eye opener for me! :ooh:

Anti Skid On
21st Feb 2005, 07:21
Which version of Flight Sim do you think Bantios uses - wasn't it 2000 that had the best 737 model??

21st Feb 2005, 16:12

A good friend of mine works for EK --- 777 First Officer (28 years old FYI bantios ). His typical work pattern is DXB-Singapore-Sydney-Singapore-DXB with a BIT of rest at SG and SYD. Two days after arriving back from this into Dubai, he was off again on a very short flight somewhere (Doha I think he said) which was a day return, 3 more days rest and then DXB-BHX, rest in Birmingham for a short stay and then back to Dubai.

All in all he says he averages 9 days off per month and the fatigue is really starting to show - not him saying that but us friends noticing. So....let me state again, he is 28----fit, healthy, no arthritis and has more common sense than you appear to have and he is clearly showing the strain which is tight rostering at EK.

Think before you write things down buddy --- I think you have peed off quite a few people here with such comments.


22nd Feb 2005, 18:32
It only grows me stronger as a person everyday.

It is growing me stronger that you are a wind up merchant and a day dreamer.:E

23rd Feb 2005, 13:07
All this whinging about EK and work. I'm not sure anyone has talked about the rotating sceniority bidding scheme. Do you know, that when someone is in the top bid group, getting in excess of 18 days off is not uncommon whilst only working 70 odd hours?

In days gone by, no one used to whinge when they were in the bottom bid groups where they picked up the less desirable flights. It was a case of swings and roundabouts.

People are talking about being turned over on pay, pity we cannot show some of the paypackets being earned.

And oh such a pity that one has to go oneself to pick up a passport. Guess this is a little onerous when pilots are fetched and carried whenever on official duty!

The fact is that there is a small whinging minority group in EK providing a lot of wind and water. Unfortunately, the silent majority are just that silent. Perhaps this is the barometer that any sensible reader should consider???

By and large, pilots are well educated and sensible people, highly professional and highly responsible. Those that write such misinformed trash need to start thinking about leaving? They give pilots a bad name.

23rd Feb 2005, 14:59

You obviously don't work for EK, or at least, not as a pilot.

In any case, if you get EK to waive the training bond, I will resign tomorrow!

I hope that did not come accross too unproffesional or insensible...

23rd Feb 2005, 16:12
Dorset Don...Spoken like a true EK Ops manager. Shows how clueless and out of touch they really are!
The only time you see 70hr block on a roster now, is on a month where you have taken two weeks leave. And unlike before, we no longer get paid for the leave!!


23rd Feb 2005, 17:30
All I know is I have three mates/ex colleagues who joined EK in a blaze of glory and are now actively seeking to get out or gone already.

Times seem to have changed there. Glad I resisted the temptation.

23rd Feb 2005, 18:02
Ditto from me.......Was on the verge.........Then a friend contacted me regarding the deteriorating T & C's.....I also couldn't come to terms with my children over 18 having to leave the country.......At the end of the day FAMILY TIME is what it's all about.....a few bob in the bank is always bonus though:ok:

24th Feb 2005, 04:07
Wow! as a new instructor hearing this, I am somewhat shocked. I was looking forward to working for Emirates. (key word WAS)

It seems like Emirates really needs to shape up and hire more pilots or give a better incentive package for the pilots they have pissed off already.

Is this the trend for most Asian airlines? Cathay has somehow managed to avoid this problem, what is stopping EK? (are they just plain cheap?)

Time to teach circuits ;) try to keep your eyes open boys.

24th Feb 2005, 04:26

Yeah, Cathay avoided the problem by summarily sacking 49 pilots. That certainly sent the message out loud and clear to anyone in cathay who wanted to address their crap rostering and declining T & C's at the time.

Now several years later, the 49'ers have been all but abandoned by their union because they are becoming an inconvenience financially, and complicating the communication process with the company with regard to current T & C's.

So they have yet again proved the current managment and employee (pilot) theory. Rule by fear and greed. Divide and conquer. Seems to work everytime when dealing with a self centred workforce as pilots continually show themselves to be.

So to answer the question, yes this is how most Asian airlines are heading. To prove the point, we are still getting new joiners from many asian airlines. This only goes to show that despite the declining conditions at EK, it is still better than many.

Cathay and Dragonair are notable exceptions, not because their management is any better than ours, but because despite their recent turmoil, they are still getting paid at around twice what EK pilots are being paid

24th Feb 2005, 05:07
There is the thought going around that the 'management' are eroding T&C's to discourage pilots from UK, SA, Aus etc. from coming, so that they can employ pilots from other parts of the world who will be very happy to be in DXB for a lot less money.

There will be the inevitable smoking hole in the ground if they are not careful, but then again we know that it was ...."the will of...................":suspect:

24th Feb 2005, 10:36

'management' are eroding T&C's to discourage pilots from UK, SA, Aus etc. from coming, so that they can employ pilots from other parts of the world who will be very happy to be in DXB for a lot less money.

So infact you are confirming that pilots from UK,SA, & Aus are generally avaricious and lazy in comparision with pilots from other regions, who are happier and thus more productive.

Must say sound judgment by EK management in that case eh!


24th Feb 2005, 12:02
No dopey.
What it says is that pilots from Western countries need to earn a salary that allows them to make provision for their commitments in more expensive Western cities, and/or for their own retirement in the more expensive West.

If they want a 3rd world workforce, then they'll get one - good luck to Emirates and their high reputation then.
We know what happened to Gulf Air and Korean.

24th Feb 2005, 13:39

If they want a 3rd world workforce, then they'll get one - good luck to Emirates and their high reputation then. We know what happened to Gulf Air and Korean.

Do you mean to tell pilots from the “western world” “1st and 2nd world" workforce deserve a better salary and conditions because they are better?? And because Emirates will hire pilots from “3rd world” their reputation will suffer?

Are you serious?? So how do the airlines from the “3rd world” manage to survive? How can they operate up to ICAO/IATA/FAA/JAA/DGAC etc… standards and be productive?

Many of the “3rd world” pilots are working all over the world with the top 50 Airlines without having any problem; many of them hold FAA/UK or the local certificates and follow the same training and evaluations as the pilots from the 1st and 2nd world.

So please tell me how are pilots from the “3rd world” changing Emirates reputation? How are they different? Because they are working without complaining? Because they are following the contract and regulations?

Please I would like to know… :confused: :sad:

24th Feb 2005, 17:54

Hope that you by any chance are no where near Emirates' recruitment offices. ( considering your BIAS ).

What it says is that pilots from Western countries need to earn a salary that allows them to make provision for their commitments in more expensive Western cities, and/or for their own retirement in the more expensive West.

Is it obligatory for employers to ensure that they pay their employees enough to meet the standards set out by you? Or should the salary structures be more in line with industry standards?

How you make your ends meet be rest assured does not interest any corporate board room.

24th Feb 2005, 18:17
Do you mean to tell pilots from the “western world” “1st and 2nd world" workforce deserve a better salary and conditions because they are better?? No, I think the reason is clear enough from my posting if you simply read it.
And because Emirates will hire pilots from “3rd world” their reputation will suffer? No...but it'll suffer if they have accidents because of underpaid/overworked pilots.
So please tell me how are pilots from the “3rd world” changing Emirates reputation? How are they different? Because they are working without complaining? Because they are following the contract and regulations? Possibly. If they meekly submit to management tyranny, and live in fear of speaking out or refusing a duty, then YES they are likely to lower safety standards eventually.
Is it obligatory for employers to ensure that they pay their employees enough to meet the standards set out by you? Not just me...but me and my peers. And if the standards in my company slip, we do something about it. But then we have a union. And a good one too.
Or should the salary structures be more in line with industry standards? Which STANDARD are you referring to exactly?
How you make your ends meet be rest assured does not interest any corporate board room. Until there's an accident. Or you get unionised.

Believe Brother
24th Feb 2005, 18:31
Alfa Mike

Suggest you read some of the threads regarding EK on the Middle East forum. The Emirates contract and various regulations here have changed that many times in recent years, it is pretty difficult for anyone to follow them confidently. About the only constant is each change being worse than the previous version. Oh, and by the way, some of the individuals I have flown with who come from the regions you are defending, are complaining just as much as the 1st worlders!

25th Feb 2005, 00:25
March rosters out and I see that I've "legally" been rostered 65 hrs in 12 consecutive days!:{

Does anyone else hear those HUGE warning bells ringing, or am I just another lazy pilot...?:ugh:

25th Feb 2005, 00:36

Good reply! :ok:

25th Feb 2005, 04:07
VVV, thinking isn't one of your strong points, I am from one of the countries that I mentioned in my post above.

Simply put some people from other parts of the world will be happier with less money. And as EK is run by bean counters, as with most airlines they will look at this option. Never let safety get in the way of profit.

MaxAlt.... excellent reply:ok:

25th Feb 2005, 06:06
or am I just another lazy pilot...?

Got it in one!

5.5 hrs per day?

If you don't want the job, there are plenty of pilots who do!

Flexibility is the name of the game now!

25th Feb 2005, 06:53
65 hrs in 12 consecutive days!!!!! Dry yer eyes!

Try working 12 hour days for 21 days running! Thats what the hundreds of offshore workers have to do in order to keep your birds supplied with fuel!

5.5hrs a day! You're having a laugh mate!

25th Feb 2005, 07:00
These would be the same oil workers that then get two weeks off right?


25th Feb 2005, 07:16
SAS23. Good luck in your management job.
Flyboyben. Just be thankful that it is the CAP371 flight time limits that ensure your safety as a passenger. Fly Emirates and keep discovering...:ouch:

25th Feb 2005, 07:33
Anyone not involved in aviation is clue-less about flighttime and dutytime limits. For someone to fly 65 hours in 12 days means that he has to work at least twice as much. Don't forget about preflight planning, turnaround time etc. So 65 flighthours in 12 days means that the pilot works almost 11 hours per day. And then you fly during different times of the day, through many timezones and you understand that this is an accident waiting to happen. Pilots are also not only responsible for themselves but also for the 200 or 300 passengers in the back,and when we make a mistake because of fatigue we always make the newspapers.

ECAM Status
25th Feb 2005, 08:13
Very well said Virga!!!

25th Feb 2005, 09:32
Yes, and as SLF its very worrying. Having worked shifts for several years I know how dangerous fatigue can be. I think I'll be flying with someone else!

25th Feb 2005, 10:08

I never had any doubts about your ethnicity!

EK has a ban on Aussie flight deck recruitment, for obvious reasons....numbers. And probably Brits and South Africans are next on the ban list. Making the demographic and cultural representation more equitable should be on the agenda, and is long overdue as is the overhauling of EK recruitment.

And what has safety got to do with being content? I think its the other way round, if you are content you are less prone to accidents, and as EK is being slandered by its faithful employees; employing a more compliant or shall we say content workforce will be in the company's long term interest.

And in so far as all this fuss about fatigue and hectic rosters is concerned, let me assure you that all professionals and perhaps your management too think it is bullocks. Many of us are following rosters that are a lot tighter and less rewarding than yours at EK, so quit the lament.


25th Feb 2005, 10:16

Have 2 weeks in easyJet and you'll go back to Emirates looking at the desert after a rainstorm, full of green grass.

Back to bed for me :(

25th Feb 2005, 10:28
Ha ha ha ha ha....., Veni,

I have not read anything so amusing in a long time. You have effectively re-defined reverse psychology for children under 5. Keep up the rational thinking Herr Doktor!

25th Feb 2005, 12:29
Have 2 weeks in Air Asia and you'll go back to Emirates looking at the desert after a rainstorm, full of green grass.

Back to excessive paperwork for me:yuk:

25th Feb 2005, 15:56
VVV,......."so quit the lament", I'll just give Danny a phone and get him to shut the website down as you seem to have the answer for us all.

Of course all of your comments on this thread have all been positive and uplifting:yuk:

As far as I'm concerned the rosters are quite good at the moment, it's the other T & C's that concern me.

26th Feb 2005, 02:19
Are there expats working for Air Asia?
Poor b**t**ds. My commiserations...Ryanair in the sun.

As to easyjet...at least British labour law allows freedom of association. If you are being screwed under that umbrella its only your own fault. Join the bleedin' union - and grow a backbone!

27th Feb 2005, 20:29
Normally these kinds of things change with an accident or a serious incident....

1st Mar 2005, 16:50
...or a change brought on by the subsequent increase in insurance premiums...

Either way, EK will have to pay.