The Increadible Stupidity of our Airport security!

[Ultralights]

Today i recieved an express order from Sanity Music store in the Qf Domestic terminal. due to the urgent nature of the order, i personally delivered the requested stock, and delivered it to the terminal store.

what happened when i got there absolutly amazed me!

the stock ordered was 600 units of cdpr (standard music CD) and 300 DVD's

these filled 3 boxes weighing approx 30 Kg each, and each box about the size of a large computer monitor.

I arrived at the Under terminal loading dock (beside the group check in on the lower level at QF domestic) showed my usual id, whch is just a drivers licence, and found my parking spot. I loaded the 3 boxes onto a standard trolly and proceeded to the goods elevator to the terminal proper. just as i was about to enter the elevator, i was stopped by security and searched. I showed them my box cutter knife and all hell broke loose ( i need the box cutter to cut the plastic anti tamper tags on the boxes, as they came directly from the manufacturing plant at silverwater) in seconds i had 3 guards with guns drawn and police on the way.:ooh:

by now im thinking it must be the 3 boxes, and i hope they dont expect me to open every single CD and DVD case!!! :hmm:

to make a long story short, the supervisor or similar person came over, and i was practically strip searched, and only then allowed to make my delivery after approx 30 Mins of Bull**** questioning and a police check!! they took my boxcutter knife, pens, and keys to the truck, pretty much every metal item i had on me. :{

Not ONCE during this ordeal did ANYONE look at or question what was in the boxes!!!

sure enough, in the elevator i go, 3 boxes and a trolly and acess to the "secure" side of the terminal!!!!! :confused: :hmm: :ok:

If only the travelling public could see this, and see just what a rort and pathetic excuse we have for security! lucky i had my background checked pilots licence on me or i would have been in real trouble!! :} :}




:mad: :mad: :* :* :* :*

[Bizpax]

Dear Mohammed Ultralights
if you're going to penetrate the super security of Sydney airport at least you could do it with something more impressive than a stanley knife ( I refuse to call them boxcutters). Next time at least get yourself on the evening news!!
Regards
Ali Bizpax

[ZK-NSJ]

which "guards" were they? the type who has flunked out of police college and thrown out of the army?, or those ones who wonder round the terminal with machine guns, jack boots and german sheppards.

[ITCZ]

It gets dumber and dumber.

Just before christmas a female pax walked up to us as we strolled throught the ASP terminal and asked us 'is olive oil prohibited on your plane?'

She explained that at security screening, a 300ml bottle of gourmet olive oil that she had bought on her holiday, had been confiscated by airport security when it was detected in her hand luggage.

We could not offer anything but a wry smile, and suggested she return to the security screening people and ask them to show her which book or what regulation prohibited the olive oil, and for what reason.

She later returned saying that yes, the security staff found a manual that said that olive oil was a fire hazard and was not permitted to be carried on board.

But who is screening the caterers?

We later served her and her fellow passengers an in flight meal with a green salad, dressed with olive oil.

Almost a hundred meals with a serve of olive oil! Much more than her 300ml in a bottle!

Lucky we didn't have a cabin fire.

[hadagutful]

Ultralight,

sorry to hear of your security ordeal my friend, but let me tell you, it will only get worse.
I call it LCD (lowest common denominator) politics, we all live our lives now under semi- draconian legislation because of the minority idiots and fanatics of this world.

Let's use a 'sledge hammer to crack a nut' type approach, e.g. speed cameras everywhere, "big brother" cameras, banning all BYO food/drinks at sporting venues, security paranoia and madness everywhere etc. etc.
We are more photographed, regulated, legislated than ever and getting worse.

Meanwhile I'm waiting for ASIO, ASIS and DSD etc. to check me out properly in case I'm a security threat or terrorist .
Happy travelling !

[Kaptin M]

We're probably not telling "career" hijackers anything they don't already know, but it sounds as though the mindless individuals employed for security checks in Oz, are on a par with those in other parts of the world.
For instance:
Walking to the terminal following pre-fight briefing (flight planning), crew are required to pass through a security "check".
Although we are all in uniform, and travelling together, EACH of us is required to slide our ID's through the magnetic reader to verify EACH of our identities (just in case one of us hadn't noticed that a hijacker had quietly slipped in).
But as we - one-by-one - swipe our cards, a man pushing a trolley load of "who knows what" outflanks us, and holding up an "airside pass" issued to temporary visitors enters the terminal.

Now, the security guard is on FULL ALERT, because the Captain :uhoh: has swiped his card the wrong way, and instead of a green - okay - light illuminating, a RED danger light, and a beep, beep has alerted Einstein that although the rest of the crew might have been fooled, this "last line of defence" hasn't!!

Meanwhile, our temporary pass holder has managed to wheel his 300kgs of plastic explosives right into the middle of the terminal, to distribute to his accomplices who are ready to board their flights!

Yes, it's a farce, and not ONLY a farce, but a time consuming one that is costing every air traveller lots of extra $$'s in the process.

[Sunfish]

Sorry to hear about it Ultralights.

I cannot top that story but at YMMB at least you had better be carrying your licence and medical with you as required by the regulations.

Armed protective services people were very politely checking them on the tarmac yesterday as well as checking anyone else airside. I thought the apprentice mechanic riding his bike was going to get into big trouble. I wonder what will happen to the kid who washes aeroplanes?

I guess we have to live with it.

[Kaptin M]

you had better be carrying your licence and medical with you as required by the regulations.

Armed protective services people were very politely checking them on the tarmac yesterday
Under what Government regulation(s) do these goons have the authority to do that?
Some of the other actions they take, such as "confiscating" and not returning items later - eg. nail clippers, knives - is ILLEGAL, and qualifies as THEFT.

I wonder if all of the little Hitlers doing those "checks" yesterday would know a genuine licence or medical from a fake, and how many of THEM were authorised to be airside.

[Sunfish]

Kaptin, I would assume that they are "authorised persons" under the Civil Aviation Act or some such, otherwise it would be difficult to understand why they were airside at all.

They know what the act says anyway and of course I always keep my medical and licence with my headset.

Anyway they were perfectly polite and it was no trouble to comply. I think they live at YMML.

[ZK-NSJ]

dont steal, the government dosnt like competition

[ROKAPE]

Are we talking about the Australian Federal Police Protective Service Officers or the Group 4 / Chubb etc private security guards? :confused:

[Sunfish]

CAR 5.56 - Production of Licences.

Part 2.6, 2.8 The Director can delegate CASA powers.

Interesting question for all you air lawyers though, can the Director delgate to an [B] individual or a class of people[B]? I have a funny feeling that it might be individuals.

[Redstone]

The Australian Federal Police are a seperate instrumentation to Protective Services. Protective Services are just security guards for government installations and don't have powers of arrest, they caan however probably detain "suspects" until the Fed or State police arrive.

[Capt Fathom]

Production of license, medical etc is only required in conjunction with operating an aircraft.
They are not required when operating on two legs.
So the mechanic on his bike would be OK, unless he tried the get the bike airborne.:E
And then only CASA could check him. If the APS say they have the authority, ask to see the Delegation!

[RENURPP]

Well unfortunately it is getting worse.

As of 10 March (think) all flight and cabin crew will be required to proceed through security prior to entry to the apron/aircraft.

That itself is time consuming and really a company issue with regards to cost, but consider that none of the catering people, non of the ground staff except the ones who have entered via a secure site have been through security.

It is a rediculous reg made up by some one who has no idea of security or how the industry works.

Who checks the safety officer, you know the one who drives around the airport looking for birds etc, the security gards them selves, few of us trust or hold these characters in high esteem, the armagard guy who brings a secure box out and dumps it in opur hold making sure no one even gets close, the DOTARs people them sleves the lowest common demoninator. to make such stupid rules they must surely be of doutbful minds. refuellers. engineers basicall every one who is not at risk of terrorism are allowed to enter,work around or on an aircraft yet the ones that are at risk are searched checked etc.

???????????

[pullock]

I hope that you report that incident formally. Guns drawn is a rediculous over reaction.

I have been saying all along that securitar is useless and heres another example.

All airport securitar amounts to is visible securitar to keep the politicians looking clean, and an opportunity for the securitar industry to exploit peoples fears to increase it's own power and and earn more money. It's sad that those who are pushing the securitar bandwagon are the ones who never graduated highschool yet now have the power to wreck our lives more than terrizm ever did.

[certifs]

Not only all the above, but you wont be able to go airside at any of these aerodromes without an ASIC after Mar 10:

New South Wales
Albury, Armidale, Bankstown, Bathurst, Bourke,
Belmont, Broken Hill, Cobar, Cooma, Coonabarabran,
Coonamble, Dubbo, Grafton, Griffith,
Gunnedah, Inverell, Lightning Ridge, Lismore,
Lord Howe Island Merimbula, Moree, Moruya,
Mudgee, Narrabri, Narrandera, Orange,
Parkes, Port Macquarie, Tamworth, Taree,
Wagga Wagga, Walgett West, Wyalong

Queensland
Archerfield, Aurukun, Badu Island, Bamaga,
Barcaldine, Bedourie, Birdsville, Blackall,
Blackwater, Boigu Island, Boulia, Bundaberg,
Burketown, Charleville, Cloncurry, Coconut/Poruma Island,
Coen, Cooktown, Cunnamulla, Darnley/Erub Island,
Doomadgee, Dunk Island, Edward River/Pormpuraaw,
Emerald, Gladstone, Hervey Bay, Horn Island,
Hughenden, Iron Range/Lockhart, Julia Creek,
Karumba ,Kowanyama, Kubin/Moa Island,
Lizard Island, Longreach, Mabuiag Island,
Maryborough, Moranbah, Mornington Island,
Murray/Mer Island, Normanton, Palm Island,
Quilpie, Richmond, Roma, Saibai, St George,
Sue/Warraber Island, Thangool, Thargomindah,
Toowoomba, Windorah, Winton, Yam Island,
Yorke Island.

Victoria
Essendon (GA), Essendon (RPT), Hamilton,
Latrobe Valley, Moorabbin (GA), Moorabbin (RPT),
Mount Hotham, Portland, Warrnambool.

Tasmania
Cambridge, Flinders Island, King Island, Strahan.

South Australia
Ceduna, Coober Pedy, Kingscote, Mount Gambier,
Olympic Dam, Parafield, Port Augusta, Port Lincoln,
Whyalla.

Western Australia
Albany, Carnarvon, Derby/Curtin, Esperance,
Fitzroy Crossing, Geraldton, Halls Creek,
Jandakot, Kalbarri, Laverton, Learmonth,
Leinstar, Leonora, Meekatharra, Mount Magnet,
Ravensthorpe, Shark Bay/Monkey Mia, Wiluna.

Northern Territory
Bathurst Island, Elcho Island , Garden Point,
Hooker Creek/Lajamanu, Kalkgurung/Kalkaringi,
Katherine/Tindal, Lake Evella, McArthur River,
Maningrida, Milingimbi, Numbulwar, Port Keats,
Ramingining, Snake Bay, Tennant Creek,
Victoria River Downs.

Certifs

[Pharcarnell]

This is going to be fun.

I regularly go airside at most of those outer area strips with all sorts of prohibited items; dangerous goods, sharps, etc. How are they going to police me getting off one of HA's 210's at a way out of the way strip with all this contraband, loaded at Darwin and not EVER having been security checked???

And guess what?? IF I don't carry these items and do the work I go for, aviation will get VERY bent and twisted about it. Over stating the case? Not even slightly! I fix weather stations and need all of these horrendous items to do so.

40 - love. Game point.

[Sunfish]

If this is really the case then something is totally wrong. What about pax walking to GA aircraft? What about my leatherman tool? Even my fuel drainer is a weapon.

I can't believe this is going to happen. If it did there would be chaos followed by serious political fallout.

[Icarus2001]

Sunfish, passengers and students will have to be escorted airside by someone with an ASIC.

certifs, was that from the DOTARS site or elsewhere?

[Ultralights]

The guards who initially stopped me were the Chubb goons, who called the mean looking guys witht he really big guns! they were the ones doing the questioning, like, whata re you doing here? Uh Duh! delivering stock to Sanity, have you been to the terminal before? well lets see, every friggin day for the past 13 yrs!

after the round of questioning, they decided to call in the police to get a background check on my licence! only after the police arrived was i allowed to enter. all the while, my 3 boxes, were still resting on the trolly waiting for the lift.


Interesting to note that Hoxton Park isnt on the list for asic access, so if i fly from YHOX to YSBK i will be arrested apon arrival at bankstown for not carrying an ASIC? will our 24 carat gold plated diamond encrusted tax receipts ( pilots licences) double for the ASIC card?

I wonder if there are any jernos out there looking for a killer story are willing to bust open this country wide security scam?

[argusmoon]

Regularly out of SIT pax bring on board,long knitting needles,golf clubs, baseball bats and other assorted(dangerous)sporting gear.
I have them removed from the aircraft.Am I being pedantic?

[Pinky the pilot]

Certifs; Wot??? No access airside at Bourke without an ASIC?
When I landed a Seminole there about this time last year around 11am local there was only one person on the whole airfield and he'd just gotten out of a shower after having done some aerial spraying! He was'nt toting a MP3 either and I don't mean the personal music player, rather the real MP3 ie the H&K machine pistol.
And Port Augusta too? That airfield is so far out of town it was actually safe enough to leave ones car parked there for a whole weekend without worrying about anyone stealing it or even interfering with it! So who on earth is going to be there to see that one has an ASIC before going out on the tarmac?

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Capt Fathom]

Jeez certifs, has anyone warned Skippy the bush kangaroo.
Lets be real now, nothing will change at these airports. Who is going to police them all, 24 hours a day. Exactly! No one.

[the wizard of auz]

Seems I'm going to end up in a whole world of sh1t. I won't be paying the $200 for the licence and I won't be submitting to any of this latest rubbish. I own two aircraft that live airside and intend to carry on flying them at my own discression and will be a pretty angry fellow if someone tries to stop me. what a load of far flung crap.
Total political driven, knee jerk crap.
We as a body should be shouting our displeasure and disgust at all this crap. :hmm: :*
Bloody lucky it was you these bufoons harrased and not me. If they had of pulled a gun on me, I would have been pretty cranky, resulting in me getting shot or them walking about gingerly with a loaded glock up their clacker. when is this stupidity going to end?

[scramjet77]

Nail scissors, leatherman tools, tweezers etc, all being confiscated from flightcrew. Belt buckles are also an inconveniene.

Well, what about the "crash axe" and baton that are purpose mounted in each and every aircraft cockpit that I fly?

Perhaps I could use the axe to do my nails.

[certifs]

Icarus, not from the DOTARS site, but from them via others.

This info came from an email sent by a person called Dave Klassen
who apparently works in the "Security Identification Section -
Office of Transport Security" of DOTARS.
A similar discussion to this one was going on at the AUF(RAA) mailing list and a number of the posters there sent various questions to this person.
One who asked for a list of airfields affected got the above list (on a two page extract of a word document titled something like "Senates Estimates Committee - Airfields bought under the legislation" and was dated 11 Feb, if I recall correctly). The AUF poster who got the reply reposted it on the AUF mailing list and the aus-soaring mailing list (where I picked it up).

As Icarus noted, non ASIC types are expected to be escorted by ASIC holders, but as others have pointed out, many of these airfields are deserted 20 hours a day. I think the expectation is that the owners (ie councils mostly) will be required to police it. Can't see them being too happy about it either.

Certifs

[cornholeyo]

Somewhat ironic to complain of stupidity whilst mis-spelling your thread title......

No use complaining about these moronic rent-a-cops. They can't read anyway.

At least they're safely tucked away at the airport instead of bravely king-hitting drunks while bouncing at pubs. Although I suppose some of the dead-****es probably moonlight....

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

A mate of mine was going out to the aerobridge to do a walk-around in SYD last year, when he spied a pax walking down to board his aeroplane carrying...... a chain-saw.

When he asked the guy how he got a chain-saw through security he was told that a chain-saw was not on the the list of prohibited items and hence security had no problem with it....

:{ :{

[MIss Behaviour]

Borg

Besides the obvious risk of the actual chainsaw itself, security obviously concluded that they run on fresh air!

Reminds me of someone I know who sometimes travels with his shotgun:

Security: "Is that a firearm?"
Friend: "Yes, it's a shotgun"
Security: "Can you open the case?"
Friend: "I've never had to before"
Security: "I need to inspect it"
Friend: "Okay" (opens case to reveal shotgun)
Security: "Have you removed the bolt?"
Friend: "No - it's a shotgun, they don't have bolts"
Security: "Oh".
Friend: "So why did you need to see it"
Security: "I dunno"

[bushy]

And dont forget to chain your aircraft to a strongpoint or fence, if you are going to leave it unattended using a strong chain and approved high strength padlock.

[Kanga767]

I noticed the other day International transit pax were passing through ANOTHER security checkpoint despite having been through one in the city of origin and not getting off the aircraft since.

I thought that maybe this was because the overseas airport security wasn't trusted (despite looking adequate to me). Presumably Australian authorities want to screen people here so that they fly across australia having been screened by local authorities.

Then I realised that there are hundreds of flights each week that go right over the top and spend 4 hours in australian airspace without being screened.

So I now find myself asking.....What is the point is screening International transit pax before they continue their international flight internally? Conversely, maybe ALL international flights should be stopped as soon as they cross the coast to be rescreened by australian security???

K

[wirgin blew]

A few years ago I flew with BA (Rat codeshare) and was screened once by airport security and a second time by BA's security. Mind you this was in Bangkok but still...

Also as far as our security goes Im sure the liitle old lady trying to do some knitting is a serious threat to aviation security and must be stopped at all costs. We couldnt have the drivers wearing knitted jumpers, just what would the QF pilots say about that casual dress standard.

LOL.

[glastar]

I have not posted this report before for fear of giving some fool the wroung idea. But now things have become so rediculous in the security area that I am moved to relate my experienc in this area. Many years ago, I think 1968, I attended a conference on hijacking run by US ALPA in Washington DC.
One flight attendant, on her first flight had been hijacked by the offender simply placing a BIRO in her ear and making the obvious threat. It could have been her eye, same result. When do we ban pens and pencils, and if not why bother with nail files and knitting needles etc.
This conference was before we had magnatometers and some countries were pushing for them but the Americams thought they would effect pax loads. Simon Ash of the Israel Pilots Union mentioned they used magnatometers, body searches, and sky marshals and were always full. Shortly after my return we had the hijack at Alice Springs where a policeman was shot on the tarmac, and soon after we started to install metal detectors.
I have just installed a throttle lock on my light a/c as required and find that is probably a good idea from a theft point of view.
I do believe this should be my decision not a buracratic one as I fail to see how much damage could be caused if some one flew my a/c with 20 gallons of auto gas into a major building.
The fine for not having a lock by next month is $5500. I might apply for a job checking all the lighties in out back Australia that never come close to a major city. Make sure the owners have their security clearances as well.
The mind boggles.

[farqueue]

I asked some one about security checks the other night, he has not had to do anything in 10 years. But he only drives around with 30 tonnes of LPG!
Way to go DOTARS.

There seems to be a serious problem. ASICs can only be used `in the course of employment'. The regs rule out using an ASIC for private operation, as it is not for employment. Plus you need a comercial lic for that. So, how does one fly from say JT? It not `in the course of employment' so even if you have a ASIC the regs prohibit you from using it....

Are they going to issue ASICs for country strips to students? I seem to remember doing a nav-ex JT-Esperance dual, the ESP-ALB-JT solo. Be a bit tricky now, and there is that `employment thing again.

A well thought out scheme. not

[ROKAPE]

Redstone....

The APS have been absorbed by the Federal Police, they are now the Australian Federal Police Protective Service. From the web site...

LEGAL POWERS

In accordance with our special responsibilities, particularly for the protection of assets and persons of national and international importance, Australian Federal Police Protective Service officers are invested with specific protective security law enforcement powers. This gives us a unique status and authority beyond that held by any other provider in either government or private sector to meet threats to persons and/or property. Our officers are empowered under various acts to arrest, without warrant, people contravening specified laws relating to the protection of internationally protected persons; and Commonwealth establishments, employees and assets:

Australian Federal Police and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2004;
Air Navigation Act and Regulations;
Crimes Act 1914;
Crimes (International Protected Persons) Act 1976;
Crimes (Aviation) Act 1991;
Defence (Special Undertakings) Act 1952;
Nuclear Non-Proliferation (Safeguards) Act 1987; and
Public Order (Protection of Persons and Property) Act 1971.

[Redstone]

Rokape, didn't realise that had happened. Recently a qf flight saw one passenger to be restrained, protective services were the only blokes to respond, would not set foot on a/c and qf staff had to cut the zip tie before they would deal. All they could do was escort him into the terminal building. I assume thier certain arrest powers do not extend to breach of the peace or assult, probably war on terror type stuff.

[ROKAPE]

Not sure why they wouldn't step onto the aircraft, although they are not full Federal Police officers / agents but AFP protective service officers, they should have the power to do that?

[MIss Behaviour]

Rokape

There was an incident late last year where a silver haired (69 year old) was told by DJ he would not be uplifted as he was too intoxicated. The old bloke tried to get a couple (punches) in to both the Aerocare staff (who do checkin for DJ in Darwin) and APS but missed as he was too maggoted.

He was told by APS to sit down and complied whilst awaiting the NT Police to arrive to formally arrest him.

If APS do have powers to detain people they did not appear to execute these powers on this occasion.

They have on other occasions 'assisted' disruptive pax in disembarkation from an aircraft. :ouch: :ouch:

[Captain.Q]

Sounds like Bob Hawke.I will bet Blanche was embarrassed