Funny/rude response from new airline

[mikepops]

This morning I have received my Flight International in the post and like every Monday morning I tried to be among the first applicants for the jobs advertised.

E*******x trading as C******* now, confirmed over the phone that they were recruiting non TR F/Os. Inspite of this within a couple of hours of e-mailing my CV I received a response stating that all positions had been filled. I don't know about you but I personally can't see how multiple F/O positions can be appointed within hours of advertising them, so I politely enquired. Was I too nosey? Judge for yourselves. Here's a copy of the communications. Boy did he have a bad day.

-------------------------------------------------


> > Sent: 14 February 2005 10:14
> > To: W***** ******r
> > Subject: F/O positions
> >
> > Dear Mr S*******,
> >
> > I write to you with great interest having learned that you are
> presently
> > recruiting First Officers.
> >
> > Having recently graduated with excellent results all-round from Oxford
> > Aviation Training and Airways Flight Training, Exeter, I am looking to
> > start my commercial pilot career. My availability is immediate and I
> am
> > prepared to relocate as necessary.
> >
> > A highly academic Aerospace Engineering background, team-oriented work
> > principles and high personal standards are a few of the resources
> which
> > I would be glad to bring to the company as a contribution to your
> future
> > success.
> >
> > Please find attached my Curriculum Vitae containing only brief
> details,
> > which we can discuss further when we meet.
> >
> > Thank you for your consideration and I look forward to hearing from
> you
> > soon.
> >
> > Best regards,

----------------------------------------------

> From: "W***** ******r" <***@*******.com>
> Subject: RE: F/O positions
> Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:40:11 -0000
>
> >
> > Dear Sir,
> >
> > Thank you so much for your interest in E*** ***x. Unfortunately we
> have
> > filled all our F/O positions.
> >
> > I will however keep your resume on file.
> >
> > Kind Regards
> >
> > W***** ******r.

------------------------------------------

> Sent: 14 February 2005 13:50
> To: W***** ******r
> Cc: A*** A******
> Subject: RE: F/O positions
>
> Dear Mr S******r,
>
> Thank you for your swift response. I would just like to make sure that
> there has not been a mistake somewhere along the line. I am confused by
> your message because my application was made in response to your
> advertisement which has just been published this morning in Flight
> Interational. I don't see how you could have appointed F/Os for those
> positions in just a few hours from advertising them. Would you please
> clarify.
>
> I look forward to your response.
>
> Best regards,
>


---------------------------------------------------

From: "W***** ******r" <w**@******.com>

Subject: RE: F/O positions
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:53:33 -0000

>
> No I do not intend to clarify.
> Warren

----------------------------------------------------


Sent: 14 February 2005 14:24
To: W***** ******r
Subject: RE: F/O positions

Mr S******,

I have made a polite and justified request. I do not think there was any
need for you to address me in the way that you did. Your customer
service manner is very disappointing. I will make enquiries somewhere
else in the company and I will obtain an explanation. I will also be
making a complaint regarding your offensive response.



--------------------------------------------------

From: "W***** ******r"
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:32:04 -0000

Sir,
I will have you know that I own this company and I will not under any
circumstances consider your employment having experienced your response
to me in seeking "clarification". If you knew anything at all about this
industry you would understand that we continually receive pilot
applications, literally hundreds each week, and the time from placing an
add to publication sees many suitable applicants cross my desk. Please
do not waste my time seeking "clarification" as you call it, as for
going else where in this organisation - well I make all the employment
decisions and you came to the right place in the first instance.
W*****

----------------------------------------------------

Thank you. You could have clarified earlier just like you have now (time from placing the ad to publication), and you could have used a friendlier tone. I do not expect more than to be treated as politely as I treat others.

I can tell you are very busy and important so please do not waste your time in replying.

Good luck with your company.

Mike

[jamestkirk]

I take it your application was unsuccessful.

Remember to send another CV within 6 months. Don't give up, they might change thier mind and like you inquisitive nature.

Although i think it might be a long shot.

It's a shame they took that tone with you. But, they must recieve so many CV's, calls, emails etc. I am not excusing his manner though.

They might have advertised the positions elsewhere and taken a selection from there. The recruitment policy may have changed at time of print. It's just another frustrating annomoly of getting an airline job.

Good luck with it

[FougaMagister]

Considering their obvious lack of good manners, I would suggest that you are better off not working for that outfit anyway (whoever they might be).

While you may have been a little too insistent, I'll say it's their loss, mate!

Better laugh about it, otherwise you'll soon become bitter and frustrated about this whole bloody mess they call the airline industry... :rolleyes:

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Mike,

Think he may have been shy?;)

[Divet II]

"When you see a job advertised in a flight magazine, a thousand CV's will already be in the post."

Clive Hughes - 'How to Become an Airline Pilot'

[barry lloyd]

Three things:

1) Consider yourself lucky to have received a reply. In recent months I have applied for more than 100 jobs, and received precisely three 'no' replies. Most employers just don't bother any more, the excuse being that they are too busy or do not have enough resources. They craftily get around this by saying that if you don't hear within a given time, assume you weren't interesting enough to the prospective employer.

2) Never get into an argument over being turned down with a prospective employer. The same guy might turn up in the next company you want to work for, and even if you're the best pilot in the world, he won't take you on. Can you be sure he won't remember you?

3) It's a sad fact of life that many jobs (and flying is not necessarily different) which are advertised have already been filled, but the company has to go through the charade of having a competition in order to show that the rules (either internal or external) have been followed. This happened to me many years ago with Dan-Air, when I applied to be a pilot with them.

The best of luck - I'm sure something will come along eventually. Keep trying, send unsolicited applications, keep your ear to the ground (except when you're flying!), and don't be too disheartened by the response of someone who, and here I agree with FougaMagister, probably isn't worth working for anyway.

[Mister Geezer]

I would not worry - at the moment you would be joining a glorified travel agency because that is all euromanx is. In reality euromanx are simply a travel agency subsidiary of Club 328 becasue they have no aircraft of their own.

I was on a turnaround yesterday in the Isle of Man and there was 2 Denim F50s 1 Atlantic ATR 42 and a Flightline BAe 146-200 operating on their behalf - bit of a joke and a bit of a disgrace really!

However despite getting an obnoxious reply aviation is a small world and I would think twice at launching a reply with a similar tone - even though it may be justified! However I would not give that outfit the time of day if a response like that were being sent.

Take note though that despite an advert in Flight, there will still be many people ahead of you in the CV pile so vacancies could well of been filled already!

[Jodiekeyz]

EEww...how rude!...Forget em, they are not worth working for.

:ok:

[Luke SkyToddler]

Since they officially don't want you, any chance you could post the text of the job advert here for the rest of us? ;)

edit ... Actually I just found the ad in the Flight website, what's the contact address / details?

[mikepops]

Thanks for all your support and empathy guys (and girls!), I'm sure I am not the only, the first or the last pilot to have to deal with such a lack of professionalism all the way from the top of an aviation organisation. An oppressive attitude to running a recruitment campaign or a busines for that matter, in my view has no place in this industry or indeed in the contemporary society. To answer some of the posts, yes it is true that because I dared to confront this abuse, there is verry little probability that I will ever get the chance to work for Mr Nasty. On the other hand it is a sure way to steer well clear of a career in taking c*ap, bowing down, kissing ar$e and feeding some tyrant dinosaur's ego and illusions of power, for a living. No thank you.

I can appreciate the point that there are usually hundreds of CV's already on the desk before the ad is printed, but I was told the same morning on the phone that they were still recruiting non TR F/Os, and an hour later I received the "positions filled" e-mail.

Luke, I cannot disclose the info you are asking for "on here" for legal reasons. However if you are still interested in applying and you have not yet found the contact info relating to the ad, PM me and I will be happy to help.

CAT3C Andy, DBS! ;)

[WX Man]

I think I know exactly who/which company you mean. You have my sympathy!

[mikepops]

Here's some more funny replies (in the comical sense), I hope you find them as entertaining as I did. I'd love to read similar ones from those who kept them.
--------------------------------------------------
Hello Mike,
Unfortunately we dont hire foreigners.
You'd better send your application to China Eastern.

Regards.

S****** F*****
Sr. Eng.
A******* Training Department
----------------------------------------------------

Dear Mike,

A nice try but:

a. We are not recruiting; and,
b. ******* *** only provides ATPL theory and MCC courses so do not have an "Operations" empire.

A word of advice - be a little more selective in your 'scatter gun' approach.

Laurie

---------------------------------------------------

{this response is to my sales pitch cover e-mail in which I made refference to my achievements during training}

Congratulations Mike,
Well done!

Have to disappoint you though. We do not have any openings for you due to
your limited pilot experience.

Thank you for your interest in R******* A******* Ltd.

Regards,
T******

--------------------------------------------------

[fourplay]

Thanks Mickey, You made me feel heaps better about all those sh***y replies I get for cabin crew that are similar ;) ;) ;)

[smellster]

Fair play to you,

If I were you I would hassle the ass of them after those replies. Even if it is just to annoy them!!

That's exactly what I did, the assy responses meant even more CVs, therefore even more work for the assy people involved, because that's what they deserve.

Have fun. ;)

(And the answer is no)

[Mister Geezer]

An attitude like that won't get you far!

[headyheights]

Mikepops.

I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune. I know what company you mean and I know the character in question. You have to understand that he is the CEO of a successful company that is rapidly expanding, he is therefore a very busy man. Bearing this in mind he has got better things to do than write a long explaination about why he would not to recruit. He doesn't have to explain himself to you! I can see your frustration, I too am on the job market like the rest of us but a confontational approach to recruitment is not advisable.

Quote.
"I don't see how you could have appointed F/Os for those positions in just a few hours from advertising them. Would you please clarify."

Perhaps a lighter appraoch may have worked. I do see your point though. If the guy is a grumpy old so and so and says he does not wish to clarify then leave him be. End of subject.

In any industry it is quite common for jobs to be taken before the advert gets published.

I know you think that he should have better "customer service" as you put it but you are not the customer! You can't start arguments with a militant tendancy. The CEO in question doesn't even have to have good customer service skills, but his employees do, he is the man that has to have good business skills.

I am just like you and don't like bending over for some A%se whole of a guy to shaft me. Trust me I've been in the aviation game too long to let them get their way. I always fight my corner when I think I have a case as you quite rightly did here. However there are ways of pushing the right buttons in people to get the right results. Even if you have the best people skills in the world and the still say no then you have to take it on the chin, turn your back and quietly think they are a w&*ker. You can't fly off the handle without prior consideration as that is not a good quality for a Professional Pilot.

Remember we are professionals and we should be proud of it, but we all work for business. Businesses that are owned by businessmen. Its their train set and they can play with it as they wish.

Keep at it and I wish you all the luck in the future when trying to find a nicer company.

[Daysleeper]

If you are getting "hundreds of cv's" whats the smegging point of spending however much it is advertising in Flight? Dont sound like business sense to me.

[headyheights]

First of all I'm not saying whats right or wrong. Perhaps the company in question were looking for a certain type of person eg Jet Time, Corporate Aviation experience etc. Perhaps all the "100's of CV's" were not quite what he wanted, maybe thats why he advertised.

Neither you nor I know where he got the pilots to fill the positions but I would guess that once news got out that this company were recruiting then pilots probably came available by word of mouth. This probably happened after the advert was arranged.

I don't know how much business sense this man has got but I think he's probably got more than you or I as he has successfully developed the company that he know owns.

I say again "Perhaps all the "100's of CV's" were not quite what he wanted". Well if you are one of these CV's you need to get yourself noticed in order to get the job. Having an argument with the Cheif Executive is not the way!

I want to make it clear that I am not trying to put anyone down here, I've been in the same boat too! I do however know the corporate aviation market and it is small. I tell you everyone knows each other - nationwide. You may find that the CEO will play golf next week with the CEO of another company and tell his story - you get my drift. Its his company and he can run it how he likes. One day when we all grow up we may run our own company. Then we can run that how we choose.

I wish Mikepops all the luck in the world when finding a job.

Headyheights

[sybt]

mikepops

I must say that i found your attitude appalling. Why would the CEO of any company feel the need to give you an explanation, when he was good enough to reply to you promptly himself and advise you that your cv would be kept on file, you are lucky if you get a reply from a secretary from most companies these days.

As a successful applicant to the company I have to say I found him to be a likable and fair person.

As far as im aware they will be recruiytng further later in the year and had you done your research on the company before applying you may have discovered this. Unfortunately it seems you have most likely burnt your bridges.

I cant stress enough how right headyheights is in regards to aviation being such a small world, and unfortunately we are 10 a penny to them these days. As frustrating as it is the aviation world does not automatically owe us a nice big shiny plane these days, we have to get noticed by the way we conduct ourselves.

I hope you can respect all our comments and learn by your mistake and put it behind you.

I wish you luck and hope you get your break soon.


:ok:

[Yarpy]

mikepops, some advice from an old hand.

It is your employability that an airline is concerned about most of all. A lot of young pilots, due to no fault of their own, lack a basic idea of what an airline wants from a pilot as an employee. Interview coaching can sort this issue out

Have a look at:

http://www.pennyaustin.btinternet.co.uk/img00001.gif

Take my advice. For your next job application think:

'softly, softly, catchy monkey! '.

[judge11]

mikepops

I'm not trying to rub salt into the wound but 'headyheights' has given a sound analysis of the situation and good advice. You were fortunate (in my experience) to get a reply to your initial application and if the owner of the trainset says he has got enough pilots then he has got enough pilots. Take it on the chin and mail him again in a few months time to see if his glut of pilots have all disappeared elsewhere.

Confrontation at your level of experience is a definate no,no. That can come when you are a CEO and then you can confront who the hell you like......but even then, be selctive!:cool:

[mikepops]

Thanks again, especialy headyheights. It is interesting to see different opinions. I don't think anybody owes me or anyone else a "shiny aeroplane", just common courtesy. Look up the definition of "customer" in the modern organisation. It means everyone you deal with.

With regards to train sets and such I will say one thing: The man makes the money, the money does not make the man. We are all equal human beings and we all deserve the same amount of mutual respect and courtesy even if we don't know each other. To politely stand up for this basic principle does not make one less professional, as it was suggested. Furthermore, the upholding of this principle is not a wound that Judge11 could rub salt into, or a burnt bridge as you put it, sybt, but purely a choice based on personal values. We each have our own.

I wish you all good luck in finding the job you are looking for, and thank you once more.

Mike

[headyheights]

Hi Mikepops,

I too believe in common courtesy. However, I can't see how the the guy reviewing your CV didn't show any courtesy. He politely and promptly replied to your email with positive feedback and offered to keep your CV on file.

Just leave it at that.

[Malc]

At least you got a reasonable reply initially, even if it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

I recently received a "thanks but no thanks" letter from a company (not the one you corresponded with) that didn't even put a stamp on the envelope. The £1 post office handling fee in addition to the unpaid postage to let me even get it really tickled me - talk about adding insult to injury! Has this happened to anyone else? The charitable side of me likes to think it was an oversight, but the bitter, twisted and cynical part thinks otherwise....

[mikepops]

heady, yes that is true. His courtesy stopped suddenly when I dared to make an intrigued (but I think still polite) inquiry. Granted it may have appeared cheeky to someone having a bad day, but I give you my word it was only intrigue accompanied by the wish to make sure there had not been a mistake.

[headyheights]

I wish you good luck when looking for further employment.

[mikepops]

You too heady, it was great to have your input and I am grateful to all for sharing your opinions and experiences here.

Mike

[flystudent]

Mikepops

I read the thread and my personal thoughts (I also am looking for first job after ATPL course) are simply this.

you got a reply, which is good, he said he couldn't tell you anymore, but then you pushed it a little too far (in my humble opinion). You increased the chaps workload which is already high and now he will remember your name for the wrong reasons perhaps ?? all for what - wanting to know how the jobs could all be filled already!!??

As I'm sure has been said, many firms already have their candidates in mind and often it is a legal requirement to just place an ad. Imagine how many people know about that vacancy before the magazine hits the press. From the chap himself to the graphics department to the printers etc etc.

Anyhow, no offence intended just my thoughts and best of luck with the hunting.

FS:ok:

[High Wing Drifter]

Mike,

Its a stange world! I really do think it is possible that there really were no positions available. My experiance of non-aviation organsiations is that they sometimes place ads for non existant jobs to survey the employment market and see what/who is out there ready and willing, maybe as a precursor to an possible bid or proposal. Agencies do it to get a filing cabinet full of with CVs to make it easier to quickly hoover up candidates for future real opportunities. This can be seen as a little shadey, but otherwise is sound planning.

Believe it or not, some organisations also do it to make it look like they are ramping up, create a false impression...taunt the opposition.

[Floppy Link]

mikepops
he now knows your name...

in six months or so he may still recognise your name...
but he might have forgotten why! :p

He'll think "Oh yeh, him...remember him...lets get him to interview"

Maybe?

there was the story of the F4 crew who got hauled over the coals for wazzing the RAFC Cranwell graduation parade at very low level.....then promoted later when the name was recognised but not the reason.

'luck anyway
:\

[jangopilot]

I received my cover letter and CV back from a sad,bored chief pilot and it made me laugh......written across the cover letter in bold red writing were the words.." YOU FAILED" !!!

No point in getting down..laugh and continue with pursual of this wonderful dream!

[mikepops]

Jango, humour is what keeps one sane in this insane jobhunting business. Which company was it?

[2604]

Didn't you address HIM as "Mrs ..."?

[mikepops]

To those concerned with my attitude: thank you for your posts. My attitude is just, and pleasant to those who deserve it. It just got me a job today! WHOOOPEEEE!!!!!

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Mike,

Please do not tell me that you have been taken on in the adult industry again?:D.

If so mate, enjoy it, and dont be shy :ok:.

[FFP]

The F4 guy in question was due to be promoted before the incident, his promotion was put off by 6 mths I believe.

[YYZ]

mikepops

Congrats on the job offer, any chance of sharing the details?

YYZ

[mikepops]

YYZ check your PM.

Cheers, Mike

[sk4644]

Mike, any chance of a pm sharing the details with me too please??!!! :ok:

[mikepops]

sk4644, check your pm

Mike:ok:

[boeingbus2002]

Looks like it pays of to stick to your guns!!
Well done.
Any chance of your story/background? (or on PM if you prefer)
Cheers

[Phil Brockwell]

Just wanted to share an odd experience with you as an employer of low houred pilots. As most of you know, the minimum TT that will enable single crew ops on AOC is 700 under JAR, but possible to be 400 with some exemptions.

I got an email from a guy with under 400 hrs (well, not exactly a CV, but an outline of flying experience etc in the body of an email).

Then later I get a proper CV of the same guy. His hours were too low, so rushed for time I sent back a 1 line "400hrs, 100 ME required."

So, then I get an email back from this bloke criticising me for replying in a "most insulting, demeaning and lack-lustre email" when all I was doing was trying to avoid Pilot Spam.

Anyway, a couple of emails later it seems he thinks that "I'm an arrogant English T%$ss$r" and that my operation is just a flying club.

Now to be fair, its all seen as a bit of a laugh in the office that this guy made no effort whatsoever to check that we, as an organisation could employ him. Then gets abusive when we spend the same amount of time rejecting him as he spent researching us.

Come on guys, do us a favour, if you are going to spam us with applications that you haven't researched if we can actually employ you, don't burn your employment bridges by criticising our reply.

Oh, and by the way, I insist on anyone calling me an arrogant english t&*ser to have at least 500 hrs total and an MCC, its in my contract

Phil
:E

[mikepops]

It just goes to show that if somebody wants to be an ar$eh01e to you because they've had a bad day or maybe by default, it doesn't matter which side of the fence they are on. It is a sad fact that in an industry characterised by professionalism we still have to deal with an accute lack of it at all levels now and then, still it is best to laugh about it.

It would be interesting to see the comms posted if you still have them (obviously censoring the names). Go on, share the experience for the sake of amusement :D

Mike

[Phil Brockwell]

Not a chance, I rose tinted it from my end to make me look better

[jamestkirk]

I cannot believe this thread is still going. It reminds me of that one a few weeks back about "what to wear to interview".

That started in good humour and then descended into a battle of insults and W80 slinging.

Although, this one being better humoured is far more enjoyable to read.

All i was going to say is, how encouraging it is to get responses. Even in the less than wanted form.

I have sent 95 CV's in the past 2 weeks and recieved 2 responses. Yes that right, 2 BIG, please FOX OSCAR, no offence Mr Kirk. Maybe airlines are thinking, let not be too rude just in case we need him/her one day....OK, maybe not.

I spoke to a lady at an airline that has been getting alot of coverage on numerous threads, and asked her

'what do i have to do to stand out on my CV'.

She replied: 'nothing. and don't try and send me flowers or chocolates, as your CV will stay exactly were is is under A'.

Not sure if the 'A' was for the first initial of my surname or 'Absolutely no chance'.

But in relection to this thread she was very pleasant.

Sorry, not sure of the point i was trying to make. I am in an internet cafe in rural ireland and probably wanted to 'reach out' to all you people out there.

[stellair]

I know for a fact that the operator concerned had not filled all positions in the time frame suggested earlier in this thread and as far as I'm aware they are still considering applications from those who have the required qualifications. Quality of hours I know is important (ie multi/turbine/commercial experience etc etc) and higher hours I believe is an advantage also. This should weed out some of the 200hr 'just qualified' competition that seems to be so prevalent with other operators that recruit via HR only! Those who have applications outstanding with this company or any other for that matter good luck with it all, don't let the frustration you feel due to lack of responses tarnish the way people percieve you. Take care.............

[Flyboy1980]

Hi,

I have come into this discussion fairly late but thought it might be worth mentioning a little about lead times on magazine advertising. Having worked in media, infact for a flying magazine, you have to appreciate that the work is done well in advance of the magazine sale.

For example, the March issue of "Joe bloggs flight magazine" will hit the shelves in February. The sales staff selling the ad space for that magazine will have Closed all selling in January and the copy of the customers ad would be required more than likely early to mid Jan. So imagine it from the Companys perspective, on January 5th they say yes please put our ad in the March issue, they supply the copy of the ad by the 7th and the magazine goes on sale on perhaps the 20th of February. Its no wonder these positions get filled before then! I hope to become a commercial Pilot some day and the one thing I have learnt in life is that success is all about networking and knowing the right people. And rubbing anyone up the wrong way is a definate no no.

Regards
FLy

Best of luck to all of you :ok:

[Mr E Pilot]

I'll tell you a tale about a friend of mine I've known since our time together at school.

It's got nothing to do with being a pilot but it is pertinent.

To keep it short, he is from a very rich family. As a proud Scotsman he always had a passion for Whisky, single malts. He didn't want to bother with University so he applied to hundreds of distilleries as an apprentice and was turned down by most. But one in particular was very rude to him during an interview. (He suffered from very bad skin and had terrible sores on his face in his late teens). The company manager actually commented on this during the interview and when he left the room the panel of interviewers roared with laughter.

Anyway, he eventually got a job and was very successful. Ten years later, at just thirty, his acne long since cleared, he became a manager. Two years after that he successfully bid for the company in a management take over.

Under his ownership the company went from strength to strength supplying many specialist retailers around the world and selling to enthusiasts on the internet. His company expanded and he now owns six specialist whisky distilleries.

Two years ago he heard that the company where he had that disastrous interview was in financial trouble. So he acquired it!

Guess what.

The manager who joked about him still worked there.

He didn't sack him.

Instead he put a very bright twenty three year old junior in charge of production :E One with spots:D !

So don't give up folks. The first ones now will later be last.

[Yarpy]

The moral of the story being that it is best to treat other people as you would wish to be treated yourself.

This holds good for both employees and employers.

[nomercy]

Unfortunately a lot of these recruitment people suffer with delusions of grandure - you just need to pucker up to get in to the company and then you can tell them to foxtrot oscar.

[wingsoverwater]

..and then it's time to let go:)

I work for an airline company since about 7 years. PLEASE always remember!!! You will always meet twice. Do not - ever - piss off prospective employers.. They will never leave the business, just change companies..

Be nice! It's worth it.

[sixmilehighclub]

In one position I held, I had to sift through up to 200 CVs per day.

As much as I tried to be informative as to why I'd turned them down, every CV is different and so each one required more individual response. With the pressure of frantically trying to find the right person, and trying to acknowledge every one, I found myself working up to 12 hours a day.

As far as advertising a vacancy is concerned, I advertised in various publications, for which there is a deadline for inclusion in the next issue. An ad can be submitted on a Friday, printed on Tuesday, on the shelves tuesday lunchtime. By the time you get your copy on Tuesday afternoon, hundreds of people already know about it. It only takes a company to say " no vacancies at the moment but call back next week as we have something in the pipeline". That person tells a few friends who tells a few friends, etc and CVs come pouring in. Usually most of which are underqualified, the qualified ones get called and snapped up immediately.

As many have already said, be very careful how you approach companies and agencies. With agencies, DO NOT mailshot your CV to 20 agencies, send them individually. In most cases they are up against other agencies to get one of their candidates employed first. If they think you're not fussy, or have possibly already been sent to a prospective employer by another agency, they wont bother.

Also, recruiters and employers move around. I sent a CV to a company I was personally applying for and she was rude to me in the interview. Three years later, I interviewed her for a vacancy I had!! Don't call us.......

Aviation is a very small world.

[mikepops]

Mr E Pilot, great story!
It is true that the aviation industry is a very small world. What is also true is that what goes around inevitably comes around in one form or another!

mike:ok:

[jem star]

Mikepops,

Just a bit of advice as you obviously dont have a great deal of experience in the funny old world of aviation.

I applied to the same company a few mths back and got a similar reply yo yours, however I didnt send back any stupid provoking reply, just a simple " Thank you Mr Seymour for your time and consideration, and look forward to hearing from you in the future.

Guess what mate, I got a telephone call and an interveiw.

Im not rubbing salt in the wound to you, just passing on some experience.

Good luck in the future

J S :ok:

[mikepops]

Jem Star,

My reply was not stupid, just wanted to make sure that there had not been a mistake, because at that time it seemed really strange to me that the positions would become filled the same day as advertised. Since then I came to realise the timing issues related to vacancy advertisement, but at the time my reply was a polite request for a clarification. If somebody had such a bad day as to find that offensive, it was not my fault, but I am glad that it did shed some light on the type of person I would have been working for, and belive me I have no regrets.

Anyway, you have my sincere congratulations, good luck with the interview, hope you get the job and enjoy it.

Regards

[Mister Geezer]

I was in the Isle of Man today and the apron was like an aircraft graveyard with all the leased aircraft that Euromanx are using. 2 Denim F50s (could of been more) 1 Farnair Europe ATR-42 and 1 Atlantic ATR-42 as well. Still have not seen this RJ - where is it at the moment??

Also read with interest that Euromanx advertised in Flight for Saab 2000 rated crews. I heard they have not actually got the aircraft from Swiss as yet.

Nothing new by the looks of things! I hope that this news of expansion is not going to be a load of false promises!

[Arrestahook]

Thought I would share a story with you from my days of job hunting.

One fine day a mate of mine high up on the 146 for Flybe rang me and told me my CV had gone in front of the powers that be and I was going to be called for interview shortly.
I was excited but at the same time concerned because I had just put down a shed load of money to do an FI rating which would be pointless if I was to subsequently get the job.

So I rang our man at Flybe to verify if this gen was correct and when an interview was likely to be conducted.
His response (Sounding V irritable) :
“Er yes I have received your application for the Dash 8’…….long pause to think and get more wound up….. ‘but you ringing me up is wasting my time. It delays processing all these applications and more importantly those of more suitable candidates.”
I politely apologised for wasting his time and rung off. But I was fuming. W****R! That’s his job to deal with cases like that for goodness sake.

A few days later I received a letter, which someone had taken to time to compose, address, stamp and post out. A bit longer than a two minute phone call I shouldn’t wonder.
It basically read….’Please don’t ring us again in relation to any aspect of your application, it delays the processing of applications and disadvantages other candidates’.

And that was it, not even a ‘Thanks you for your continued interest in…..’
Needless to say there was no interview, but I kept the letter as an example of the sort of company I never want to work for.

But I can laugh about it now because I know that recruitment officer is up to his eye balls in CVs and pesky phone calls again because over thirty of his Dash 8 boys are coming to Fly Airbus for the company I currently work for…...(Who are a great company)

:ok:

[fly-half]

Mate of mine got a flying job with Club328 (along with outstanding qualifications of course) by being good mates with the deputy chief pilot. So not only do you have to think about all the other cvs that have been sent but also the number of people who get in through networking.

As for Flybe, well that man in recruitment Big Don is a complete liar! He deserves all the problems he is having right now. In fact, I may give him a ring tomorrow to ask him how many of their pilots resigned in March!

[Howski]

Hello All

Does anyone know if Euromanx will be taking on newly qualified guys or will it only be type rated with experience.

Anyone had a reply to the online application yet ?

Howski

[mikepops]

I recently received a response letter from Aero Flight (for which I am immensely grateful!). The logo on the headed paper is in English, it sais: "Aero Flight - your friendly airline", however the letter is written in German!... how very friendly!

[jamestkirk]

I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS THREAD IS STILL GOING.

I sent Mr Seymour at Euromanx an email with my CV attached, begging for work.

He sent an email back the next day explaining the situation for low hour guys. That situation is "not at the moment".

What i will say is that his e mail was informative, polite and professional.

I read thread number 1 on this post about his alledged rude response. It certainly was not the impression i got from him.

And yes, it was a personal reply not a generic one.

JTK

[VHF1]

Hi Mike,

If its any good to you i have a filing cabinet full of P.F.O's. These are a very useful tool in the whole job searching game as all the contact details and company details are usually on them. Keep at it, keep applying and suceed, if for no other reason but to prove to your....ahem...."friend" that it was indeed his loss to miss out on the chance to hire you.

keep the head up and the Cv's flowing

VHF1

[GMIMA]

mike pops chech your PM.

[mikepops]

Thanks GMIMA, left you a PM.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

I do believe congratulations are in order Mike, you are finally a Dad!

See you soon, DBS :ok: