View Full Version : Flight Disruption
Four Holer Roller
14th Mar 2001, 19:57
Gentlemen,
We are all aware that considerable disruption to, and in some cases cancellation of, flights is occurring as a direct result of the chronic shortage of crews in Cathay Pacific Airways. This situation is being exacerbated by the "fire-fighting" approach of Crew Control, sorting out todays problem only to cause even more disruption later.
Exact details however are not widely available.
May I suggest that in order that we may have a clearer picture of just how bad this situation is, and to keep other observers of this forum informed, any significant delay, disruption, cancellation, or non standard crew operation be posted here, whilst of course being careful to protect the identity of the reporter.
It will not be possible to verify these reports, and many will slip through the net, but it seems to me the situation is rapidly getting out of hand and a fuller understanding of the magnitude of the problem would be to everyone's advantage.
Reports in response to this posting would be a good starting point.
fossil fuel
15th Mar 2001, 06:55
Good idea 4HR,
Okay, I'll start with the obvious:
CX255 cancelled on March 06, 07, and 13.
CX255 on March 9th depaarted at 0930 next day.
Any day of the week in dispatch is a joke, people getting chopped and changed, crews still missing 1 or 2 at sign on. I can't remember the last time I did a rostered flight...
Tornado Ali
15th Mar 2001, 09:59
CX 883, 11 March......delayed 14 hours due to no Captain available.
Several other LA flights have cancelled/delayed due to lack of crews in the past 4 weeks. American Airlines are asking some 'very pointed' questions of CX management, as they transfer their 'One World' traffic to CX for onwards flights to Asia. Not looking too good for the boys in the 'Ivory Tower'....... :)
Keep the pressure on the bas-ards.....!
bengi25
15th Mar 2001, 10:34
YVR-JFK, 888, cancelled 11th March
AMS-MAN, 271, cancelled 12th March
due to lack of interest.
Regards
723/724 most days of the week
Thrust
15th Mar 2001, 12:04
It's "disturbing" isn't it. I've many mixed emotions about these cancellations and delays. I want the best for the airline on one hand and want to bring it to its knees on the other.
How much will it cost for a return of the respect (and therefore COS) we deserve. Management with their entrenched position that we have enough crew or don't require to give our existing crew a proper incentive to work over 700 hours a year is a sad joke, wrong on both counts it would seem.
No help from the pilot body will be forthcoming if these attitudes continue. My guess is that if management don't change their attitude damn quickly these schedule problems will worsen to the point of complete roster collapse. Roll on that day and lets make it soon. What a sad thing to have to say but who can put up with their "roster" any longer.
I've heard from the C&T dept that April's roster is going to be a real problem (more than normal) to construct. Don't expect any improvement soon!!!
Isn't it time serious questions were asked about the management of this once great airline. In a word the performance of DT, NR, KB and his moron sychophant yes men is "TRAGIC".
[This message has been edited by Thrust (edited 15 March 2001).]
just wondering, how many such cancellations and delays are there throughout the whole airline each month? if the situation is so bad, as it evidently is, how come there isn't much coverage of this shambolic affair in the media and how come the travelling public is not making noises?
is the public really that inert that no one is saying anything about it?
jagman
15th Mar 2001, 14:50
Be unable to fly due to stress on Mar 31st for 5 days (or even 3 without a note) and that will give KB and his cronies a bit of a wake up call...........
Checkmate
15th Mar 2001, 15:40
Dam you Jagman. That's my idea. I'm off for a few days R&R over the Easter period. The old bad back again you know. Rgds Checkers.
BigTimeWannabe
15th Mar 2001, 16:17
Hi People,
I'm flying onboard CX250 (LHR-HKG) on the 29th March. From my previous experieces there would be alot of travellers who would fly CX early in that week, because of the HK 7's. If you want to cause an impact the Wed and Thurs arrivals into HK from places like Australia, New Zealand and UK. Passengers onboard those flights will be dying to get to HK because of the rugby!
But PLEASE don't touch the CX250 flight that arrives on 30th March as I am going to be flying on that flight, and I want to get home.
BTW
joblessflyer
15th Mar 2001, 16:33
guru,
looks like you are stirling **** up again.
so, how is the interview in Oz? bet you did not get thru TP and the fleet capt,huh?
chat sei chat
15th Mar 2001, 18:10
Jag
What a good idea...a little like a slow moving "cold" front moving through... might be that the radar paints another system a few days behind it.
It is streched very,very thinly now ladies and gents, and c/c will prevail. H^ll even the frt. folks are p^ssed off now. Welcome to the monkey house boys, we tried to give you a heads up...
E-whale
15th Mar 2001, 23:06
chat sei chat,
You are right about it building. We are taking another 400 freighter next month and can't crew the ones we have without mainline help. You'll see some disruption there soon.
We received your heads up, but just couldn't do much about it with such a small and isolated group. Now that the group is larger and divided between CX & ASL it is harder for them to determine who's for CC and who isn't. In the light of the recent developments, management has angered just about everyone. Most are on side now! A lot of the ASL guy are just as determined as the rest of us........they couldn't sign over for age or other reasons.
In any event.......contract compliance is definately having an effect.
joblessflyer,
what are you on about?
Thrust
16th Mar 2001, 08:21
Don't worry Guru, what he writes must have something to do with his location. It doesn't make any sense that's for sure. Too much heat and no real freedom probably.
By the way. Have you done the flight grading yet? How is the application coming along or am I confusing you with someome else.
Thrust, I'm going later on in the year. I've been doing a little bit of gliding, I hope it will help.
It's been made clear on more than one occasion that perhaps I'm not welcome to participate on this forum, I wonder if quite a few of you prefer to keep this exclusive to those 'inside'.
Four Holer Roller
17th Mar 2001, 15:12
Thanks for the exchange of views guys....but more detail on Delays, Cancellations, Disruptions and non-standard Crewing would also be appreciated.
The further we can spread the word of the total shambles that exists the sooner something will have to be done.
Keep posting.....they hate it!!!
jagman
18th Mar 2001, 13:38
As the day approaches (the 31st) my back is beginning to twinge. I don't know what it is - I must go and see the Doc. Those seats are very uncomfy aren't they ?
COME ON GUYS - BREAK THE BANK.............
Four Holer Roller
18th Mar 2001, 18:23
I see two succesive 255 London flights are running around ten hours late (with pax!).
Anyone know why??
BigTimeWannabe
18th Mar 2001, 20:49
Just drove pass LHR and saw only one CX 744 parked by the BMI hanger. Have they decided to operate one flight to LHR because of the shortage?
SuperSandwich
19th Mar 2001, 03:34
Maybe cos the other flt is still on the ground in HKG.
[This message has been edited by SuperSandwich (edited 18 March 2001).]
HUSTLER
19th Mar 2001, 05:20
CX 110 17th March
Thankyou to the F/O who helped out the company and operated the aircraft in civilian clothes.
Many other F/O's were contacted and refused.
It is exactly this type of behaviour that undermines everybodies efforts.
Once again,
Thanks,
HUSTLER
Just sit down, have a beer and think a bit would ya?
That F/O may have been a commuter that the company knew to be onboard that flight, exactly what choice's did he have then hey? go sick for the next day with the company knowing he couldn't get back? don't think so boys. Come on be fair.
I've seen it done many times out of OZ, and no it wasn't me!! I'm based here.
fossil fuel
19th Mar 2001, 07:07
The fact is there are still a few guys doing "secret" deals with crew control and it makes me sick. A couple weeks ago I was offered half a month off if I "helped them out" for a flight. Yes I'd like half a month off, but I'm not about to shaft myself and all my colleages to get it. We need EVERYONE to stick to the rules. The next few months will determine our futures.
Hustler,
Have you reported the individual to the AOA ? if not why not? Lets have a name !! if more of these people were exposed then less would do it.
ACMS
Sorry but your argument doesn't cut it. CC has been in place long enough now for everyone to know the rules. Have tickets on other carriers to cover yourself for these eventualities. The only way CC is going to work is with everyone giving maximum effort all the time. We are all tired of it, but when one individual gives in all the efforts of those who went before are for nothing. The result is that this whole thing gets dragged out longer and longer. I for one am sick and tired of having my efforts undermined by the results of a few. The time for public humiliation has long passed...........
indeepsht
19th Mar 2001, 18:58
acms... The answer is easy! The answer is NO I'm not fit for the duty!!
Maybe he had a big night on the piss on his last day in Aus? Maybe he had a beer for breakfast? It's not the companies business why your not fit for the duty!
If your on a F***ing day off, stay on your F***ing day off!!! FULL STOP!!!
Norseman
20th Mar 2001, 00:58
I think what ACMS was getting at was that if this F/O didn't do the flight, it would get cancelled, and he'd then be stuck in SYD and unable to get to HKG for his duty. Am I right ACMS?
My question is, what the hell are people doing commuting on CX ID90 tickets for anyways? Is it the bargain price? (HA HA)or maybe the reliability? I'm sure there are other travel options, like a QF ID90 maybe.
You're more likely to have an airplane to get on, for around the same price, and at least there not going to come back and ask you to fly the damn thing!
indeepsht
20th Mar 2001, 01:30
I have also traveled from oz many times in the past and find it really stupid for someone traveling id90 on the day before a duty so that they may have to comprimise thir position on cc!
And in todays environment even stupider!
Come home with a day to spare, there is less stress about the what if's and there are more options available to you. Including through SIN.
There are lots of flights out of oz and no excuse to be working one on a day off, thats all.
That's all very well guys but if a commuter is to come back a day early then he might as well not bother to go home. I know he/she works for a HKG airline and they chose to be a commuter and we all MUST STICK TOGETHER but fair suck of the sav guys.
Those of you who have ever commuted in Y class on interline know that C is a lot better on CX thanks very much. If you are going to spend half your life on A/C to see your family it might as well be in C class!!
And sometimes the staff pax has ALREADY checked in for the flight, what do you all suggest they do? suddenly feel sick? A bit obvious isn't it?
Just food for thought is all.......... :)
I used to commute to GET A LIFE and it is bloody hard work.
Midnight Rambler
21st Mar 2001, 00:23
The first thing that happens when a flight goes tech. for whatever reason is that the airline offloads all the pax onto the interlines. Result: no seats available anyway.
I take the point about the current climate, however, and it does make sense to book seats fullfare as a backup.
Sizzle
21st Mar 2001, 05:31
Reported in the FT in UK early March that the CX board in London are discussing the repeated cancelleation of 255/4.
CAA licences can be revoked for a route if they are not operated to a set frequency !!
Was thinking of applying - now not so sure now - is it really that bad - CX, HK etc
New China Driver
25th Mar 2001, 17:06
I believe there may have been some hiccups to a HKG-EUR service or two over the w/e? Anyone confirm?
SuperSandwich
26th Mar 2001, 09:33
255 on 23rd delayed till the next morning. Past 2 255 flights today in the air which were delayed.
jagman
26th Mar 2001, 10:09
F/O operated the CX 250 on the 23rd with a dispensation from the CAD because his landing recency had lapsed!!
What on earth is the CAD doing????
unabungler
26th Mar 2001, 10:29
Simple.
The CAD is in the company's pocket.
The CAD is corrupted.
That's what the CAD is doing!
mad:
conan
26th Mar 2001, 12:26
unabungler,
I understand that feelings are running high right now, but be careful what one puts in print. There may have been a myriad of reasons for granting the dispensation, The Capt could have been a C&T, and been renewing the landing recency en route.
If the recency had indeed expired then the AOA should take it up with the CAD.
I feel that at this stage it is not wise to upset the department that we may need in the next few weeks on unsubstantiated rumours . Let us ascertain all the facts first, then come to a conclusion. If there is a case to answer the Ombudsman is probably the place to start.
I urge you to have a rethink and withdraw your remarks for every ones sake. Thanks very much
Will the effects of today's action on services be reported on this forum?
According to a participant in the event, the dispensation was granted on the condition that the F/O (the only Relief on the flight) did not manipulate the controls. Hmmm non current pilot in charge of an A/C.
unabungler
31st Mar 2001, 09:05
Conan, thanks for the reply. Very level headed!!
Perhaps my post was a bit out of line, at least until facts are substantiated.
FOR THE TIME BEING, I will retract my statement.
Time will tell if I should have done so.
..the bungler