flt deck visits

[j17]

FLEW TODAY FROM PMI TO MAN WITH JMC. COULD NOT BE BOTHERED TO SIT WITH THE PUNTERS SO REQUESTED A VISIT TO THE FLT DECK. IMMEDIATELY INVITED UP FRONT FOR THE ENTIRE FLT WHERE A LOT OF ATC/ACFT OPS AT MAN WERE DISCUSSED.GO PILOTS SHOULD INFORM THER MANAGEMENT THAT THE FLIGHT DECK IS ONE OF ONLY PLACES THAT PILOTS AND ATCOS GET TOGETHER. THANKS SIMON AND SIMON.OUTBOUND FLEW WITH BRITTANIA, FLTDECK NOT INTERESTED WITH A VISIT

[Scimitar]

j17

Very sorry to hear that Britannia "weren't interested in a visit". We are well aware of the significant numbers of our passengers, from all walks of life, who would be intersted in a look and chat up front. Most of us do our very best to allow as many as possible to do so, but are also aware that our cabin crew are required to work almost non-stop throughout a short European sector. Having passengers moving around in the cabin makes their life considerably more difficult for them and maybe it's just possible that some requests to visit the flight deck get "overlooked".

If you fly with us again do please emphasise that you work in ATC (or better still, write a brief note addressed to the captain) and I feel sure you will receive a very warm welcome. I personally feel that any opportunity for pilots and ATC to chat together is worth its weight in gold.

Apologies for this particular instance.

[1 of many]

Sadly the majority of our flight deck visitors are morons who are bored. The rest are usually charming people who show a great deal of interest and attempt to ask the questions they've 'always wanted an answer to'.

The Cabin Crew do work their *rses off on the short sectors as stated above and cannot always 'vet' visitors - a business card works wonders here.

Personally, I feel that we are not 'part of the IFE' and would keep the door closed to all but those (as above) with a professional interest.

[DownIn3Green]

J17,

I was an ATCO for more than 10 yrs before I turned to flying. I remember in 1982 when I was working the Upper Heyford RASZ I went on an 18-30 Holiday to Ibiza. (I was the oldest just under the limit, but that's another story) I got the J/S home at 0-dark-30 on the old Air Europe, and experienced a dawn landing into MAN.

Since then, I've always enjoyed my contracts in Europe, as I'm allowed to have "guests" visit as we make our way to their holiday. (as you probably know, this is not permitted in the US)

One limitation I always put on visits, however, is the feelings of my other crew. As has been previously stated, the crew in back has a very hard job, but with a little "pre-arrangement", a visit is almost always possible.

As an ATCO, you have the contacts to make it happen.

I don't work for Britiannia, but I know guys who do. To slag them like you did shows your inexperience in jumpseating, and remember, one day you may be stuck, and these guys may save your bacon. All pilots are more than willing to give ATC'ers a good look, just be cool.

We survive on your largess. It works both ways. Give us pilots another chance.

[Fast Jet Wannabe]

j17 -

I think I infer from "GO PILOTS SHOULD TELL THEIR MANAGEMENT..." in your post that you are still under the belief that flight deck visits are banned on Go. This is not the case, they were postponed for a short period but are now fully re-instated.

Your message is hard to understand, sorry if I infer wrongly!

PS: Had a great jump seat ride with BAL on a 763 into SDQ recently - thanks guys!

[j17]

FLT DECK VISITS

Fast Jet Wannabee
Thanks for the info about Go,I did not realise that visits had been re-instated

DownIn3Green
I dont think I was slagging Britannia off but just passing an observation and being an ATCO of 25 years my jumpseat experience is rather more than you think

[Trident Sim]

j17

Most pilots in my company are more than happy to allow flight deck visits to those with a genuine interest in aviation; however we are becoming increasingly irritated by the behaviour and attitudes of a small minority of visitors.

By way of example, cavu, who describes himself as a British JAA/FAA Flight Instructor, was apparently invited to sit on the flight deck of a BA aircraft for descent and landing. Afterwards he saw fit to make a snide and anonymous little post about the crew - suggesting that they may have been intoxicated whilst on duty - on the North American forum of PPRuNe. To read it click here (http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum32/HTML/000227.html).

As a result of the behaviour of people like him, many pilots are becoming much more selective and restrictive about flight deck visits. Probably the best way to go about it in future is as described by Scimitar and others, and, if possible, make prior, written contact enclosing a business card.

Do please keep asking, as ATCOs are always welcome on my flight deck, whenever possible, and receive the same warm welcome I always get when I visit LATCC or Heathrow Tower.

[foxmoth]

Its no good slagging off Britannia for the actions of ONE set of flight deck or even praising JMC as a whole for the good JS ride, all airlines are made up of individuals, some good, some bad, each of whom will react differently to FD visit/JS requests.

[magic69]

I flew j/s recently with easyJet - and they were superb. Both the captain and F/O were very informative, friendly and welcoming.

Crews like that do nothing but add respect to the whole profession IMHO.

[Jet A1]

I quite like a visit from a 'well infromed punter' or ATCO or alike, useful to get some accurate gen ! However a Cpt on a recent charter flight made a good point --- If you were a lawyer/office worker/ATCer would you like someone coming into your office and watching while you work ????? Fair enough point I thought !

[IcePack]

Can't believe ANY flightdeck crew would refuse an ATCO visit to the flt deck.
Did the cabin crew inform the flight deck that it was an ATCO, somehow I doubt it.
Possible that the request wasn't even passed on.

[Ticker]

I welcome any aviation worker or enthusiast to my office. A visitors card or ID is a great help. However, I am not that enthusiastic for visitors to my flight deck in the middle of the night.

Some years back one of my compatriots in Britannia had his wallet lifted from his jacket by one of the stream of visitors he allowed into his office on a dark night.

[incubus]

So what would be the best method of getting a note to the captain of a flight PRIOR to boarding? I know that the attendants are always a little busy as the pax are boarding.

Should I try and address it by name or would that be considered a little too much like I was a stalker? ;-)

[TheLizard]

Following on, as a mere "worker bee" ATCO I am not equipped with a business card - so what would my best bet be? I am reluctant to ask the cabin crew as they are always pretty busy.

On similar lines, I know drivers often have very little time spare between flights, but you are always more than welcome in ATC whenever you get the chance.

Cheers
TL

[EarlyGo]

A UKATTS identity card might be useful in this instance, its got your mugshot on and indicates your employment. Are most pilots familiar with the UKATTs organisation?

[Locolito]

ok scenario here i am 16 and am flying to spain on a charter with a spanish company (unknown yet) if the crew are spanish can i still get a j/s??????????

What is the best way of approaching a j/s ride from this angle?

RGds,
loco.

[Avman]

30 years in ATC I've done more than my fair share of cockpit flights (I'm talking several hundred) and I have never been refused. Did quite a few with Britannia (and met the Missus on one). To my surprise I was even allowed up front during an atlantic crossing with one of the major American carriers although the cabin crew went to great lengths to conceal the fact from the pax. Now days it's rare that I ask unless a flight is full. That's because I'm now too old to understand the answers to the questions I ask!! :)

[Mowgli]

In my company it's up to the Capt, and the majority I fly with comply. Flew with one the other day who just said no, without a reason. That's his right. He's not great on people skills but that's another story!

[TE RANGI]

Locolito:

Tell a flight attendant that you have an interest in aviation and that you really, really would love to see the flight deck. Now, do that before their service with the carts starts -or even before departure. If your word is passed on to the capt, and if he's a nice guy he'll invite you and perhaps you can remain there till the approach.

Good luck!

[beamer]

In the holiday charter world we get lots of
requests for flight-deck visits. Our cabin
staff tend to act as a filtering system before asking whether we are prepared to allow a quick visit to our 'office'.

I have been more than happy to pass the time
of day with ATCO's, WW2 aircrew, nervous
pax, well-behaved children and a host of
others. I have also had to endure kids with
all manner of coughs, olds and smells - semi-
literate louts who usually come up with the
comment 'is this all you have to do then' or
'do you just go there and back' etc. Then we
have the spotters who are fascinated by the
IFF setting or the colour scheme of the F/O's
underpants.

So you see, it takes all sorts. I don't want
a succession of visitors at three in the
morning northbound from Paphos or Tenerife.
I am happy however to meet interested, polite
and decent people of all ages when its a nice
day and all is well.

It is at the end of the day the Captains
discretion whether or not to allow visitors
into his working environment. When not so
inclined a reply of 'sorry - its a training
sector' normally does the trick.

[austin2]

I have recently been lucky enough to visit the flight deck on both the outward and return flight from Heathrow to Zurich. I had prepared a brief letter which I handed in on boarding which asked if it would be possible to have a short visit to the flight deck sometime during the journey. On the outward flight the Captain of the 757 invited me forward once the meal had been cleared away and very kindly allowed me to stay for the landing. On the return flight by A320 I was suprised and delighted to be invited to sit in the jump seat for the take off, flight and landing which was an amazing experience. Both crews were very friendly and happy to answer any questions during their few quiet moments. For someone who up till now was not the most confident of fliers I found the visits extemely interesting and reassuring and look forward to my next flight. Incidently I think that my friends and work colleagues are starting to become rather tired, or more likely envious, of hearing about my exploits.

[Lardyboy]

I have alwats found j/s rides rather straightforwrd to obtain, with BA, BMi and the like more than happy to have a chat up front to compare notes. As one BA F/o explained to me, it was the only time he had any chance to ask ATC questions. In the one instance i was turned away from the flight deck, the flight attendants explained very curteously that 'things were rather busy up front', but to ask again on the return sector, and hey presto, no problems. I generally find that a GATCO, or UKATTS card does the trick, and I for one am very eager to have the golden opportunity to chat to all those in aviation

[enginefailure]

well, i'm not the youngest and i had the possibility to be on the flight deck of an LH 737 just some weeks ago (incl. landing).

It was a great experience and made me happy like a child (my last visit was on a DE 727 in 1972 !!!).

So, first of all, you adults out there be not ashamed of asking for a visit -
and to all pilots:
If the workload isn't too heavy, give the interested people the opportunity to visit you on the flight deck and trust the cabin crew "sorting out" potential air rage candidates ....

there is nearly nothing that compares to the view from the flight deck during approach and landing! It's worth asking .....