Compensation for a bad neck

[beardy]

bbc report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/4257683.stm)


Provides a thought provoking piece. I would have thought navigators would have something to say about unannounced manoeuvres.

[BEagle]

Was this instructor a 'real' QFI or one of those "We'll-call-them-QFIs-'cos-otherwise-we-won't-get-them-to-Valley" people?

If the 'instructor' was a real QFI, the "I have control" call should be instinctive - as should the "You have control" response from the student. But as everything else in the RAF seems to have been dumbed-down over the recent years, is it absolutely certain that those who used to be termed 'Tactics Instructors' (Qualified Gash Shags) and are now termed QFIs for expediency are actually trained to traditional CFS levels?

The student cannot have been 15% responsible if he never made the "You have control" response. In which case the Aircraft Commander and ipso facto the MoD were 100% de facto responsible.

He should appeal - and perhaps then the dumbing down would be exposed for the fraud it really is.

[jindabyne]

But if there had been a 'I have/you have' dialogue (not clear from the beeb report), then the guy (stude) is a p***k ----

[High_Expect]

Man the F#*K Up everyone knows the risks. Deal with it, should have been the proper response. Bl#@#y nanny state.


#rant over@

Can Worms.....!? anyone want a slice of this lovely pie.

"right are you ready bloggs..... G\' coming on. .................... was that ok...... ok G coming off now"


B@llS**t

[Roghead]

Without knowing a lot more regarding the actual circumstances of this "incident" it's dangerous to comment... but hell, when has that stopped the crew room expert from voicing an opinion. So here goes. The student is taking the **** and was clearly an incompetent aviator. A navigator suffers this all the time if the crew is performing at top level and I'm not aware of any similar crass claims from the rear seat brigade.
Beag's, old chap, who should appeal? The Staff pilot (ie MOD)I assume?

[Talking Radalt]

Oh for the love of Hoon :(
Military flying is risky, not just when securing oil reserves but every day, and accepting that risk (and that doesn't translate as ignoring it) and occasionally suffering some discomfort in return for a line of work that apparently we all love, is what separates us from the utterly dull civilians you see living out their beige lives in retail management posts in large out-of-town supermarkets everywhere.
I suppose if this poor unfortunate mis-guided student pilot had twanged his neck windsurfing in Cyprus it'd be laughed off over brandy sours in the Mess the same night?
And anyway, send Slackbladder our way and we'll let him have a bash at plotting a dozen drop-offs crouched over a 50thou at night, goggs on't swede, at low level, in sub-zero temperatures, using the space left on the floor of the Boeing Hilton between 40 tightly-packed squaddies (stop laughing at the back) as a map table.:mad: :* :ugh: :{ :bored: :uhoh: :yuk: :mad: :sad:
Where there's blame there's a claim.
Where there's a claim there's usually a slimy lawyer and a mild case of what I understand used to be called LMF. :rolleyes:

And anuvver fing, note the possible presence of a slightly smarmy subdued grin on the face of said "victim" in the BBC report. Yeah, he knows hardship and adversity, I bet. :rolleyes:

Rant off! Thank you! :D

[BEagle]

jinda - "But if there had been a 'I have/you have' dialogue (not clear from the beeb report), then the guy (stude) is a p***k ----" is entirely correct. But was the handover of control properly established?

I have only ever 'snatched G' without warning once. On the way home to Brawdy in a Hunter T7, the zillion hour ex-GR1/3 Harrier mate in the other seat was looking down at something when I saw that we were about to hit a swan. No time to say anything, I just pulled up at about 5G. I explained precisely what had happened and he agreed that there'd been no alternative - it was an emergency manouevre.

It doesn't appar to me that this Hawk incident was of a similar urgency - as reported, the event was wholly of the so-called instructor's making. There is NO EXCUSE for hazarding your crew in such a way!

[JessTheDog]

Without trying to sound too self-righteous, I have a similar permanent spinal injury obtained on the job, so to speak. Somehow I can't work myself up to making a claim against the MoD, mainly due to the (probably naiive) thought that there are people who suffer far more grievously and it would be rather insulting to them to put myself forward as a deserving case for compensation. I must be some kind of mug.....

I've also got a broken toe that occured on the piss....the RAF didn't surcharge me for the week or so that I wasn't fully productive, even though it was completely my fault! I'd suggest what goes around comes around.

[overstress]

I thought everyone cricked their neck at TWU - I did, still can't get rid of the 16 1/2" collar even 15yrs or so later!

[Davy_MC]

Beagle,

Sorry but I have to bight at this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was this instructor a 'real' QFI or one of those "We'll-call-them-QFIs-'cos-otherwise-we-won't-get-them-to-Valley" people?

If the 'instructor' was a real QFI, the "I have control" call should be instinctive - as should the "You have control" response from the student. But as everything else in the RAF seems to have been dumbed-down over the recent years, is it absolutely certain that those who used to be termed 'Tactics Instructors' (Qualified Gash Shags) and are now termed QFIs for expediency are actually trained to traditional CFS levels?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In answer to your question/assumption:

I have seen you slag off 19 Sqn QFI's on this forum before. It is obvious that you had a bad experience when you went through TWU in the bad old days.

Instructors at 19 Sqn are trained to exactly the same levels as "traditional" QFI's. They attend the same ground school and are expected study the same ground syalbus as their collegues on 208 when undertaking A2. I'm not about to start a public slanging match about who is better than who ( although, let's face it, that's what Pprune is for). But rest assured that the days of TWU instructors sitting in the back, shouting, and providing no instruction are long gone.

Deliverance,

Sorry to hijack the thread. Rant over.

[foldingwings]

Jess,

Couldn't agree more. Similar tale in a Bucc rear seat 25 years ago; sudden onset of unannounced G following Lightning intercept whilst I was jotting down notes about the cr@p (and soon to be chopped) student pilot on the wing (who had brought the Lightning with him back into the formation having managed to get himself split and lost in 8/8ths Blue) - Sorry must calm down; head hit knee; sharp jab between shoulder blades; lifted out of cockpit and valium administered (nice.......) whilst Doc straightened me up! Result - compression fracture of T5; 4 weeks bed rest; and 2 weeks in Headley Court!

Final result: 11 more years in the cockpit eventually on GR1s.

Financial Compensation? Never crossed my mind. It's what you get paid for.

Real Compensation - the knob student was chopped (and chopped again later!)

Satisfaction - Guaranteed!

[jindabyne]

So, as I said, the guy's a p***k! If the finding stands, and MoD does not appeal, then I would award him sufficient to have a good p**sup at his mum's, only to sue her after breaking his leg on the way out.

[BEagle]

Davy_MC, the only 'slagging off' is at the person who decided to term TIs 'QFI(TS)s'. I don't recall the poor standards of instructors "Shouting from the back" that you describe (or, in my Hunter days, from the RHS). At both Brawdy on the Hunter and some years later, Chivenor on the Hawk, I received excellent standards of instruction from:

QFIs who taught pure pilot skill on the Gnat, Hunter and Hawk;
QWIs who taught weaponeering on the Hunter and Hawk;
TIs who were neither QFI nor QWI, but were staff pilots who were used for other essential TWU tasks (formation lead for simple cine and cine weave, SAP lead, LL nav chase etc.)

But for someone to be termed a Qualfied Flying Instructor and never to have been taught to teach even EofC 1 is stretching credulity too far, in my opinion. The idea, I am reliably informed, was to dangle the carrot of a 'qualifiation' in front of people in order to entice them to a tour at Valley.

The 'IHC - YHC' mantra is drummed into u/t QFIs during basic CFS training and becomes second nature. All I meant was that, if the 'IHC' call wasn't acknowledged in this case and injury to the student was the result, then no blame should be attached to the student. And that such a call is far more unlikely NOT to have been made by a traditionally trained QFI than by a TI.

I also recall being very specifically briefed about the correct internal calls to make when doing those 'extend and pitch back' manoeuvres during ACM training when unloading with full power, achieving Vc, rolling rapidly to around 75 deg AoB, pulling hard to 6 and squeezing further to 7G in the Hawk. We were also carefully briefed on the correct posture to adopt if the other pilot was demo'ing said manoeuvre.

We did, also, have a heck of a lot more bum-on-seat time in those days than the folk do nowadays at that stage of training - I wonder whether simple inexperience was also a contributory factor in this case?

[TurbineTooHot]

Um, got a bit of a sore neck from Friday's trip.

Need a new motor.....

Now where could I raise the cash from............


On a real note, that d!ck, like the rest of us knew the risks involved when he signed on the dotted line and got in the cockpit.

Could someone explain to me (really, not rhetorical) why the courts don't seem understand or appreciate risk or accidents.

Confused

TTH

[SpotterFC]

I think you'll find the courts also don't understand stupidity.

Several years ago an induhvidual was walking out of the bunker (I think it was Neatishead?). Fixed along the corridor walls are eyelets for the escape guide rope. Said induhvidual was idly running his hand along the guide rope and his thumb entered an eyelet, did not get extricated in time and he broke it...subsequently sued and WON because no-one had told him he shouldn't use the escape line when it wasn't an emergency.
At least he had the good grace to pass the award on the RAFBF.

[mightyai24]

TTH, I'm with you!

As a back seater, I've had more than one nose gunner thro me around with little or no warning - that's my job! I'd far rather have a no notice 6g pull than fly into somethig/one or get shot! What's next? Stude gets air sick and sues for distress or other such weediness? On the other hand, probably not the brightest thing to do it solely to see your parents house...:)

[Impiger]

I remember being injured while flying F4s with BEagle. He landed on the numbers (just an expression I know that's not where you land an F4), at the right speed and in more or less control. My jaw dropped in amazement just as he applied full braking . Head came forward banged into the instrument panel jaw closed with some speed trapping the Impiger tongue in the process. Haven't been able to taste claret properly since. Who do I sue?

a. BEagle for performing so unexpectedly

b. The MOD for making me fly with him.

c. McDonnell Douglas for creating an aeroplane that was notoriously tricky to land

d. Tony Blair who was nowhere near me at the time but who has loadsa taxpayers cash to spend on all sorts of things

The world has gone mad is it any surprise this matelot wannabe fighter jock's name ryhmes with w@nks?

[althenick]

I wouldn’t normally join in on a discussion like this as I am no a pilot just an interested party but here’s my thoughts (for what they are worth)

Many of you have stated in one way or another that flying is dangerous and incidents such as this may happen and the general concenus of opinion is ‘tough sh1t’ Ok lets look at that from another aspect.

1/ the QFI/FI took the controls without indicating his intended actions to the Student I note with interest that the BBC journo worded it as such…

“After hitting his target he began to recover height when his instructor, took control without explanation”

Did he say (a)“I have control” or did he (b) just grab the stick? If (a) then is that not a bit dangerous? I would imagine that that would be like my Mrs. reaching over and grabbing the steering wheel while I’m driving (only worse) In which case I think that the FI should be disciplined and the Student compensated. If (b) Then as the Student I would have sat back and prepared myself for anything so sueing should never have happened (When I’m out and my Mrs is driving I tend to sit back, clinch the side of the seat, and pray to Allah, Jehovah, and anyone else up there who might be listening – but I would never grab the wheel off her!)

2/ “Um, got a bit of a sore neck from Friday's trip.
Need a new motor.....
Now where could I raise the cash from............
On a real note, that d!ck, like the rest of us knew the risks involved when he signed on the dotted line and got in the cockpit.
Could someone explain to me (really, not rhetorical) why the courts don't seem understand or appreciate risk or accidents.”

TTH
I wouldn’t have thought that Civilian court’s understand military risk’s or accident’s . They DO however understand Health and safety. And this is probably the angle that the claimant fought it from.

…Whatever way you look at it, the FI was a bit of a tw@ Interrupting an exercise just so he could play the Jackie-boy for the entertainment of his parents. I hope on that issue alone he got his @rse well and truly kicked.

Sorry if this is all a bit disjointed but I’m in a hurry as I’ve got a hot date tonight with a flagon of Ale.
Al

[JessTheDog]

Several years ago an induhvidual was walking out of the bunker (I think it was Neatishead?). Fixed along the corridor walls are eyelets for the escape guide rope. Said induhvidual was idly running his hand along the guide rope and his thumb entered an eyelet, did not get extricated in time and he broke it...subsequently sued and WON because no-one had told him he shouldn't use the escape line when it wasn't an emergency.
At least he had the good grace to pass the award on the RAFBF.

I thought it was Buchan....and it didn't stop him getting promoted!:D

[BEagle]

Libellous swine, Impiger!

"I remember being injured while flying F4s with BEagle. He landed on the numbers (just an expression I know that's not where you land an F4), at the right speed and in more or less control."

That IS the way you're supposed to land the F4!

"My jaw dropped in amazement just as he applied full braking . Head came forward banged into the instrument panel jaw closed with some speed trapping the Impiger tongue in the process."

Full braking? I doubt it! How dare you damage Mr McD's instrument panel - and how come your face fungus didn't soften the impact in any case! Next time fasten your straps properly! But if it stopped you talking for a few seconds...;)

"Haven't been able to taste claret properly since. Who do I sue?"

Actually, it's more likely to have been the fault of all that Keo plus the vile wine you used to quaff in Germany, old chum!

:p

[oldgimmer]

Beags

You didn't land the F4, you controlled the inevitable crash.

QTIs in todays air farce are definately Q'd. They receive the same basic training from CFS and then specialise in their own ac type. They are also subjected to the ritual yearly upgrade/confirmation of Q status. The fact that they teach students in half the time that they used to is a poor reflection on the depreciation of the service we give students of today.

OG

[seven4mankind]

O'h dear. This makes me 'shak ma heed'. The compensation culture has been slowly penetrating for years, but mainly non-aircrew. The rest of us generally feel that when we sign the blank cheque, we accept the risks of injury, ejection, capture, ultimately premature bad things, happening during the course of our contract with the Forces. I know so many people in the team that have suffered great injuries, pain, bereavement and loss and just continue serving with the dignity of any dangerous professional career. The guy's left and got a job; he's hardly in a wheel chair or one limb down as many of the squaddies are. I'm so sad that this will open the door to similar cases. Health and Safety factors can only go so far in training a fighting force. A sad day for all military aviators...Good luck to him, but this is a disservice I think

[dogstar2]

Flew with the Flt Lt mentioned in the article a couple of times before this incident. Yes he really was a real QFI (A2 at the time of the mentioned incident). For the record, he was, and still is, a very professional operator.

Perhaps the story goes something like this: Student completes target run, instructor decides to take control and give him a couple of minutes break as either a pat on the back, or as a means of lightening up a sortie.

[Fatty]

I knew the fellow in question.

I also flew with him, when he was still flying blunt and yellow stuff. I suppose I helped him get his fixed wing tick.

I feel I should say on his behalf, that I thought he was a decent sort and just the kind of bloke you would want in your squadron.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Any chance that our Harrier driver to be was on the ropes, and seized upon this event as an opportunity to both save face and grab some cash?
In my 12 years (and counting) experience in the instructional world I have found that the good students just get on with it, and rarely - if ever - complain. If they do, it's generally for good reason.
Contrast that with the "but my instructor taught me that way/my instructor yells at me/this skidball's out/I didn't get enough sleep last night" excuse-for-everything personality who can't come to grips with the fact that they're not making it.

[Background Noise]

Don't think he used it as a way out, I read somewhere else that he left later, after not being able to continue flying due to the earlier injury. Neck injuries are very real, especially on the Hawk, 'Hawk Neck' is a recognised condition.

The instructor may need (has had) to think about the CRM, or whatever you want to call it, relating to the onset of G - even after a formal handover of control.

[Rant On]However, if this stude (or anyone else) has been injured to the extent that he cannot continue in the service then the service(s) need to take ultimate responsibility, be it compensation or invalidity pension, for injuries (or death) sustained in the course of serving the country.[Rant Off]

[Roghead]

One of my "responsibilities" in a previous life, was the department H & S Plan. For those poor souls who have been involved in this well meaning but totally out of control nonsense, I can assure you that in most aspects of military flying it is impractical and all but impossible to complete a risk assessment on the associated aviation activities under the guide lines laid down by the Authority. ( If you don't understand what I'm talking about try a Google search) Consequently the Military must have separate and different rules.....don't they? Ergo, it follows that compensation claims in civil courts must be handled differently... doesn't it?
OK back to reality, the Armed Forces are quite different from civilian employment and the "risks" taken cannot be covered by H & S legislation designed for non military purposes. Therefore, and for as long as I can remember, we have "policed " ourselves and this claim might just be the beginning of the end (again)
74MK and Capt SD I'm with you.
Fatty, I must assume, from your comments that said stude had been got at by somebody then, post incident?

[Fatty]

When I said I flew with him on blunt and yellow stuff I meant the plastic stuff before the real warplanes.

I have not seen him since EFT stage.

I thought he was a decent sort then and not deserving of some of the comments earlier in the thread. That is all.

[buoy15]

Is the QFI supposed to give a risk assessment brief prior to every sudden 5G pull-up?

Perhaps the MOD could sue his mother for breast feeding him to infancy ?

Or his dad for conceiving him?

Had it been a "girly" would it have made better press?

Love many, Trust a few, Only sue if it's good for you!

[MightyGem]

Do the RN have Flt Lts? I can't recall hearing the term before.

[dogstar2]

I was refering to the Flt Lt flying instructor mentioned in the article.

[Ghostflyer]

'If only I'd known I could've done it, we could be living the high life Rodney'

When I was flying a somewhat higher g platform than today, I used to go and see the docs once every couple of months for some Physio, Flexeril and Brufen. Knocked you out for a day but the dodgy back felt great. God knows how often I was sitting in the back seat instructing and had to shout 'Belly Check!' to get my vision back and my head off my chest after an unannounced break.

Now move on 5 years, dodgy back plays up so went to see a civvy who sent me off for an MRI.

'Hey mate did you know you've got a broken back that won't heal?'

'Uuh no, when did that happen?'

'Hard to say probably about 10 years or so ago!'

So do I get a few pennies from the state, nah my mates get to laugh at me doing 'le mars' exercises before I go and chase the white pill. I don't know anyone that I flew with that would have sued.

Ghost:{

[Cambridge Crash]

As one who suffers from an injury to my spine, there is rarely an hour that it doesn’t haunt me in some way. Fellow sufferers will know the problems – difficulty in sleeping, difficulty in sitting still for long periods, almost total abstinence from sport, inability to do manual labour (and the cost of having to get people in to do simple jobs about the house), impact on relationships (eg separate beds!), manifestations such as numbness, formication, etc. Moreover, the prognosis for spinal injuries is rarely good; a chronic condition generally worsens – and the problems are not only physical. I face the prospect of not being able to fully participate in the upbringing of my kids, or sharing an active life with my partner, and have bouts of intense irritability brought on by the discomfort. Yes, ibuprofen and acupuncture, inter alia, help, but they do not fix the problem. Difference is, I have done 20 years in uniform and have embarked on a different career where physical disabilities do not generally prohibit you from working.

In contrast, think of this poor chap who has permanent neck injuries, was dropped from a career choice he was no doubt passionate about, and now faces the prospect of limited career opportunities – whilst in his early 20s. In a matter that is sub judice, I recently gave evidence concerning a reservist who injured his neck playing sport during a conflict in the Balkans. The case is being handled no differently from the matter at hand.

This isn’t an issue of blaming the instructor – I hope there was no malice aforethought; the student has suffered permanent injury whilst in the Service of the Crown and deserves recognition for the loss of earnings, and dare I say, privilege, by ceasing to be aircrew. If he were injured in combat, many on this site would be pouring out their hearts in some (slightly macabre) cathartic exercise. Should we begrudge him compensation?

[Arkroyal]

I wouldn’t have thought that Civilian courts understand military risks or accidents . They DO however understand Health and safety. And this is probably the angle that the claimant fought it from.Redundant apostrophes removed for the sake of my sanity!

Saving Private Ryan was on TV last night.

Any of these chancers should watch the first twenty minutes and thank their lucky stars they were not born sixty years earlier!

A disgrace to the FAA :yuk:

[Cambridge Crash]

One of the concerns I have is that the chap in question is being identified as being a 'wet pants' for suffering a debilitating injury. Neither the State, nor any other employer, has the unreserved right to inflict an injury on an individual whether by design or omission. It is accepted that injuries and death can occur during MACA and conflict; it is not acceptable during peacetime training, whatever the justifcation

Tablet_Eraser - interesting, suing for a bruise? Unlikely to get to Court, or indeed an employment tribunal, as the nature of the injury is transitory, and indeed the complaint could be considered to be of a vexatious nature.

Is the caution of the CCS instructor based on an urban myth, or is it that the regimented Regt instructors are being overly pedantic? There was - apparently - an incident after GW 1 when an incident occured when real Autojects where still in circulation; perhaps similar cicrcumstances apply now. I would be interested in hearing.

It's a bit like the enduring myth that the RAF would have to hand Halton House back to the Rosthchilds if the RAF left the site. I recall being taught this at RAFC. Rubbish; the RAF obtained freehold in c 1919, but the myth continues.

CC

[JessTheDog]

Obviously there should be a great deal of sympathy for anyone who loses their career over an injury obtained in service and there should be some compensation as part of the discharge process. Is it unrealistic to assume that these would compensate insofar as money could compensate for permanent injury? If so, then no-one should need to sue unless they have an abnormal grievance.

[MightyGem]

I was refering to the Flt Lt flying instructor mentioned in the article.

Yes, but the article, in fact all of the articles, refer to the student as a RN Flt Lt. It's not a rank that I'm familiar with, that's all.

[DC10RealMan]

I know that my following comments may seem out of place and from a different time, but here goes!. It is my priviledge to be an "Honourary member" of the Mid-Kent branch of the Aircrew Association and as such allows me the pleasure of mixing with RAF World War 2 "types". Most of these elderly guys suffer from "Lancaster Ear" a form of deafness brought on by sitting with 6 feet of four Merlin engines for hours on end. I took one veteran back to Germany on the 60th anniversary of the shooting down of his Lancaster to visit his crews graves as he was the sole survivor and had suffered from psycological trauma ever since. Others suffered as POWs particularly in the latter stage of the war as well as seeing close friends "failing to return" night after night, particularly in RAF Bomber Command. I dont really have a point with this post and I am certainly not being critical of the litigant, but how times have changed.

[Captain Kirk]

Hey Ghost,

Are you sure you didn't hurt your back at the Brawdy Octoberfest? You could sue too - I will appear as a witness to testify that there were absolutely NO signs to warn you NOT to uni-cycle the length of the table - perhaps you landed on one of the CLOGS you were wearing when you ran out of table!!!

We didn't even get a H&S brief!! What do you reckon - 60/40 split on the takings?! :ok:

[6Z3]

"Lancaster Ear" a form of deafness brought on by sitting with 6 feet of four Merlin.

Two points:

1. My father was a LE sufferer for which he received a modest but welcome medical pension. A similar hearing condition today (Gazelle ear) enjoys no such compensation.

2. Absolutely no risk of getting LE at Culdrose then!

[greenhaven]

I also knew the student in question, he was a few courses below me at Barkston - top bloke, a committed RN aviator and a good laugh to boot - by no means (at the time) a 'pr*ck' or a 'tw@t' or any of the other accusations being levelled at him by some quarters.

Whatever your thoughts on this are, it's a sign of the times that we find ourselves able to sue all and sundry for the slightest injury, so can you really blame him for trying this course of action? For him - no win, no fee = nothing to lose.

I'm sure each and every one of us could probably find something in our career that we could pin a later injury on (poor seating posture/back pain, hearing, etc) and to be honest, if i was faced with a lifetime of self-employed building management rather than 450 kts low level through the nearest TTA, i'm sure i'd have plenty of time to consider my 'options'....

[TurbineTooHot]

Been jumping out of planes instead of flying them recently.

We have been using Weston on the Green as the "acceptable" DZ.

A few years ago, WOTG was a "safe" DZ until some silly lass who didn't follow the drills properly broke her leg.

This lack of ability to comprehend fairly simple instructions and apply them in a "stretched" environment, was discounted by the courts, as anywhere described as safe should leave you free of injury... EVEN IF YOU HIT IT AT 1000FPM! Utter boll@cks.

They've been trying to push MRI scans on baby aircrew as a result of our intrepid ex naval occifer's legal dalying, in order to give them a way out (finds a problem pre-Hawk, no good case etc). Told them to ram it as med cats may be lost in the process of a needless and potentially harmful (longterm) proceedure.

Hope the knee doesn't jerk too hard.

Captain to crew, please close the ramp, the all the fun is escaping!

Turbine

[Barn Doors]

'Tom'

If you are reading any of the rubbish being discussed about you on this site, keep the faith mate; the words 'duty of care' are unknown to some people.

Good to read that you're keeping well and making a career elsewhere. I, for one, hope you get a sh*tload of compensation from the MoD. The 'Lord S' was always a gash, pompous and full of sh*t anyway, IMHO!

Take care and the very best of luck with the case,

BD



:cool:

[seven4mankind]

BD,
It isn't rubbish at all mate.... extremely important topic for military aviators and many of us who have had wry necks and 'hawk' neck will both sympathise and be extremely concerned about the litigation in this case when we are actively training aircrew to the best of our abilities, in order to keep them, and ourselves, safe in the air. Being sued by them is a hither-to unprecedented added worry.
Turbine,
My understanding from 04 is that Quinetiq are actively involved in the MOD led push to investigate the causes and risk factors for neck injury in FJ crew, not because of this case or any other, but mainly because of research predating EFA, and the pressures their necks will be subjected to. An appropriate time to do it, most of us would feel. It all sounds incredibly humerous as well when the first trials were underway at Linton, and the Doc was asked what she would do, and she honestly admitted that she would never agree to it as the chances of an abnormal scan were so high, and someone would want to operate!! She came in for a lot of s--t, but the aircrew appreciated it and the study was suspended. Much more work and supportive reassurance needed I think from the RAF!!!

[maxburner]

CambridgeCrash,

Thanks for a clear and well argued submission. I've read this thread with interest as I have a similar condition to the litigant and can no longer fly fast-jets. I've not sued the MoD and don't plan on doing so, but I can sympathise with anyone who has sustained a similar injury in Crown Service because , as someone has said, a spinal problem is a life time problem and it affects all aspects of one's life. I'm not badly affected, it must be said, but there are times when it's painful etc.

The point is, that these days even the crown has a duty of care to its employees. The litigant in question did no more than exercise his rights, as would a bus conductor who's driver did something dumb and unexpected. It's a little unfair to call the guy names when not all the facts are to hand, its being reported by the BBC - not known for being air-literate - and he's only looking out for himself within the law.

Rant over and I feel better for it.

[Ghostflyer]

Captain Kirk,

Now you've got a great memory and I like the plan; it should be worth all of 5 grand!! Now that you mention it, as I recall not only were there no signs to tell me not to uni-cycle on the table but also none to tell me not to drink in charge of clogs and a uni-cycle......... If I'd fallen off I might have damaged my liver!

Happy days, sometimes you have to wonder if the world has gone mad. They'll soon be handing out no win, no fee leaflets in the crewrooms. Sorry, back to the serious discussion...

Ghost:O