Trm

[Nogbad the Bad]

Is it arse-covering by NATS, or does it have any real relevance to the way we work ?

[Standard Noise]

It's all psychobabble.:hmm:

[nodelay]

Whenever the topic of TRM is discussed at my unit the first thing that crops up in the converstation is the food and the quantity of it, not the course content!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Loki]

I think its a plot by the Human Factors people to make themselves look useful. That way they`ll be fireproof when the beancounters start looking for ways to save money.

[Barry Cuda]

An interesting article in the CHIRP which dropped through my door this morning regarding the rostering of it on days off...

If it isn't covered by Sratcoh then does this mean it is optional or that it has no real relevance? (cf truce which is Sratcoh compliant...)

[Arkady]

Not optional at LACC as it now forms part of our Licensing requirements. All other NATS units to follow.

The best part of TRM was the opportunity to discuss the incidents raised with controllers from other units. There should be more of this; I'd happily give up a day off every now and then to talk shop with MACC, TC, airfields, even the French!

[63000 Triple Zilch]

The article in CHIRPS this month was questioning whether the rostering of TRM is against Scratcoh or indeed against the spirit of Scratcoh. Interestingly neither the CAA [SRG] or NATS attempted to deny this point only to state that NATS management should be aware of the possibility of fatigue in Controllers after TRM training. However as TRM was so important to the future of NATS this was deemed to be acceptable. It seems that we can endorse a potentially unsafe situation in order to run a safer organisation??? How does that work?? Is it right that a controller can end up working 15 days out of 16 and 112 hours in that period??

[flyingbricksh]

CRM has been around for a long while and has been judged as benificial for pilots . It was only a matter of time...........:{

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

So how precisely does it effect the way one works? I experienced a number of "management chats", videos from High Priests and other nonsense over the years but not a single one effected the way I worked. As for climbing hills in Wales and now this latest effeort.. I really do wonder!

[ifaxu]

Why not give TRM a chance? With overtime, flexible rostering and some unusual shift patterns the traditional watch system is (for better or worse) being slowly eroded. When the teams you are working with are changing so much you need a method of understanding the dynamics of what is happening. Wether this is SOP's or a better understanding of TRM these changes WILL happen.
Heathrow Director with all due respect why do you feel a need to denegrate an initiative that you do not understand or have nothing to gain from. If this project stops just one major incident from occuring then imho it has been worthwhile.


P.S. I have nothing to do with either nats management or the running of TRM courses. Just an open minded modern ATCO.;)

[with alacrity]

ifaxu good post and I completely agree with you.
I have attended the TRM course and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Due to shift working I travelled on the evening of my sleep day in order to make the early start but that didn't cause me any problems.

The aim of the course is to provide all grades of ATM staff with strategies for the best use of available resources - information, equipment and people - to optimize the safety and efficiency of air traffic services.

The course objectives are to:
a) develop positive attitudes and behaviours towards teamwork skills and human performance in ATM;

b) reduce or minimize the impact of teamwork-related errors within the ATM system.

The facilitators were excellent and I learned a lot from the case studies and exercises.

My only gripe was the bar prices at the Meon Valley Hotel but then again I am not a top of the scale Atco Two;)

[VectorLine]

PPRuNe has a dedicated CRM forum. That shows how important our pilot colleagues see it.

CRM has been on the go and continually developing for over 25 years. This is just the start for ATC, lets give it a chance.

If it has no effect on your work then so what? As long as there is a chance that someone, somewhere, someday might benefit from TRM, then I think it's a good thing.

As for fatigue - I thought LACC ATCOs gave up thinking about fatigue last year when so many started doing overtime and this year selling annual leave!

There have been a few complaints about being rostered TRM after a sleep day but it hasn't stopped many drinking in the bar till the wee hours............