BA to Tampa

[cirrus01]

Anyone know the reason why BA has cancelled services and have now ended up sub-chartering Portuguese aircraft to operate on the LGW - TPA route ??

Is it down to the famous staff shortages ......? :confused: :confused:

[ETOPS]

The cancellation of TPA services is due to cabin crew shortages however the Edelwiess A330 being used on NBO services is due to aircraft shortage. Looks like the 767 refits are taking longer than planned.........

[cirrus01]

So where are the crew that normally fly the NBO ??? what I mean is that if BA are already operating one aircraft down due to its being "Dusked", how come there are such staff shortages as to impact TPA flights. ....

Is it too difficult to manage to get sufficient staff to operate..? or Do Ba's CC operate more than one type..?

[TURIN]

Ah, Engineering Without Spares (EWS) strikes again!:uhoh:

[c.r.m what is it]

I was told today that the cancellation was down to the shortage of aircraft and not crew, don't know how true, it is, but came from a dispatcher! Nobody at Lgw is happy that the CS- reg B767 had to do one flight, let alone a couple of weeks worth.

[WHBM]

For what BA's regular pax think of the situation see here :

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=396335

[Minhaj Atwah]

A little bird tells me that BA cabin crew have declined to renew their US Visas until there is movement on a couple of industrial issues. Hence the shortage of the darlings, and BA’s wet leasing/mass cancellations to cover.

They want to be paid for uniform appointments, and they want their own sickness policy separate from the rest of BA.

You couldn’t make it up:eek:

[whitingiom]

I'm booked on AA to Tampa next month......is it any better than the world's favourites?

777 as I remember

[davethelimey]

Yes - much better, at least in economy thanks to the extra couple of inches of legroom. Pretty grumpy FAs from what I recall, and no free booze, but you can stretch out, which is heaven if you've got long pins.

[ALLDAYDELI]

Some of those high denisty config B777s from LGW gone to CWL for refit to standard -236 layouts. Is this anything to do with it I wonder. G-VIIO for example.

[sammypilot]

Isn't the comparison here that you book on the QE II and find that it has been substitued by a 45 year old Greek Liner with four previous owners?

[frangatang]

Cabin Crew shortages are down to many reasons including
industrial agreements going back to the dark ages. If one of their trips is disrupted for any reason then the precious darlings need at least a week off to recover ,in which case their next trip is
disrupted. Ans so it goes on..and on... How about dumping the old
baggage and start off with virgin cabin crew,one third the cost,
half the average age,twice the smiles and twice the service.

[BRUpax]

Bang on frangatang ! Time these grumpy old gifts to aviation were given the boot. Some hope though.

[Sonic Cruiser]

I belive that BA Cancelled about 10 services to or from the States last week. See the BA website latest operations section for the ones that were canncelled.
As far as I'm aware this was due to shortage of cabin crew with for example the outbound service operating as normal and then the aircraft flying back to LHR empty!!!
As well as the loss of the revenue service how much is it costing them to fly empty 747-400's and 777 across the Atlantic empty??
Surely not a good way to make money and please passengers.
I think BA might be in a bit of trouble if the US-UK skies are opened up more and you get the likes of Emirates and Singapore flying between London and the states, but thats another thread entirely!!!

[TURIN]

....with virgin cabin crew...


Isn't that an oxymoron?:E


Sorry, couldn't resist.:O

[Hot Wings]

Empty 744s going as far as NRT (and back). All down to a shortage of cabin crew.

Also, new DEPs failing to turn up for courses or resigning within the first few days/weeks.

Bye bye Mike Street.

[Sonic Cruiser]

What a complete waste of money!! Although I guess BA would loose even more money if they cancelled both legs rather than sending a plane empty one way.

[bealine]

frangatang Cabin Crew shortages are down to many reasons including
industrial agreements going back to the dark ages. If one of their trips is disrupted for any reason then the precious darlings need at least a week off to recover ,in which case their next trip is
disrupted. Ans so it goes on..and on... How about dumping the old
baggage and start off with virgin cabin crew,one third the cost,
half the average age,twice the smiles and twice the service.

BRUpax Bang on frangatang ! Time these grumpy old gifts to aviation were given the boot. Some hope though.

Propaganda Rules!

How dare frangatang or BRUpax on this forum openly insult BA Cabin Crew (or any staff member of any airline in this fashion???

I, for one, will not stick around and see my airborne colleagues insulted in this manner!

Where the FrechConnectionUK are the Moderators to see fair play???

As usual, a couple of idiots have put two and two together and fabricated anti-BA propaganda!

Crew Shortages are caused by:

1. Ill Treatment and Abuse of Crews by US Embassy staff when renewing visas have resulted in crews refusing to attend in their own time.[quote]

If similar situations had arisen elsewhere in Europe, by now every US registered aircraft in its territory would have been grounded until the US rescinded its stupid, bureacratic nonsense regarding the treatment of non-US passport holders!

Indeed, the idea of "blackballing" (refusing to handle) American Registered aircraft, until the US backs down over its stupid, bureacratic nonsense with non-US passport holders, has been kicked around by airport handling staff - so watch this space!

2. New staff recruited at the handsome salary of £6950 stay only for the duration of the training plus a couple of months. Once they see just how difficult the job is and the sort of difficult people with whom we have to deal (like the two pprune posters in question), they don't stick around!

Aircraft shortages:

Yes: A couple of LGW 777's are being refitted and our 767's are being dusked at Gatwick meaning we're short of aircraft.

Don't blame the staff or the union agreements - since 09/11 we have given everything away to keep our jobs and BA would not have survived without the full co-operation of the staff! If we need a clear-out, it's the management - we are extremely top heavy and carry a lot of dead wood!

[LatviaCalling]

Two weeks ago, during an ice storm in ATL which was my connection from Savannah, Georgia, Delta rerouted me with much pleading via Comair to JFK and then AF009 to CDG and then to Prague and then onward to Riga, Latvia.

I have to say hats off to Air France where 300 some passengers were fed and coddled and upon landing at CDG I only had 45 minutes to switch from one terminal to another which included running outside, inside and inbetween.

I had given up on my luggage in Savannah with so many points of trasfer, but there it was in Riga. Can't really understand it, because running like crazy I barely made my AF to Prague which was standing about 3 miles off in a parking area. Yet, my luggage made it way before me.

To make a point about this thread, the AF was a 777, where even in economy class, a passenger did not have to worry about seat pitch, etc. It even had fold-down foot rests. A classic operation, much better than the Delta 767-300 goint over there to ATL.

[Suggs]

Sorry Bealine but the way some of your colleges present themselves means your not going to get any sympathy here.

BASSA and CC89 shouldn't have anything to do with the running of the company. Between them and your management they make the whole company the laughing stock of the air.

CC can be fantastic , but also completely impractical

[Shuttleworth]

Bealine said " since 09/11 we have given everything away to keep our jobs and BA would not have survived without the full co-operation of the staff!"

Just untrue I'm afraid.
I can't believe you actually mean the things you say . Sure BA has some exceptional and talented cabin crew. We still win awards for in flight service. However the overall picture is pretty grim.

For example;

I was in Compass when the gnd staff walked out - there was massive disruption and late in the afternoon the company sadly made an announcement over the office PA that all long haul flights were to depart empty ( probably a sensible decision in the circumstances) .

What sums up BA cabin crew, was their reaction. No sadness for all the passengers who's hard earned holidays were totally stuffed on that day,. No compassion for families enduring mayhem in the terminal. No concern for the financial damage to BA . No apprehension at the deleterious effect to BA's reputation. JUST A MASSIVE, and I mean massive, and total CHEER from over 400 cabin crew. That's what many BA cabin crew think of our passengers - they despise them.

Sad but true.

[BRUpax]

Sorry to have upset you bealine , but I'm afraid that my experience of BA cc in the past year is that, with some exceptions granted, the general trend is a negative one. I know that you are a professional at your job. Sadly not all your colleagues follow your example. CC (on the routes I fly) in particular are getting worse. It may be poor morale, I don't know, but as a CUSTOMER I'm not impressed. Again, sorry if I upset you but I won't withdraw my statement. Oh, and by the way, I'm not at all a demanding pax. I only wish to be treated as if I'm a fellow human being and not some low life. Too many cc go around with an air of smug superiority which antagonises regular pax, who in many cases have a great deal more years of flying under their belt than many of these young upstarts have.

[Human Factor]

BRUpax,

I've read some of your posts in the past. Are you a regular traveller through BHX? You are probably well aware that the operation there is no longer mainline BA (ok, I appreciate it was BAR) and is now Citiexpress. Most of the cabin crew you will have flown with previously have moved down to the London bases and the Citiexpress crews are recruited by a seperate company to a different standard - mainly, the package available is unlikely to attract the same sort of people who would come to mainline BA. Not saying it's right or wrong, but that's the way it is. Sorry to hear of your experience.

HF (ex BHX flight crew)

[BRUpax]

Yes, unfortunately for BA mainline, it is the BACX cc that generally don't impress me. I do fly mainline too and upon reflection it is true to say that on the whole their cc are better. Of course, most pax won't be able to identify the difference between mainline and BACX. Even I didn't realise until you told me that the cc operating with BACX out of BHX are a different set to those who originally flew the A319/RJ100 fleet. That explains why I didn't get to see my favourite ladies anymore! But, even if BACX are to blame, the consequence of poor or indifferent service or attitude by BACX staff will impact the image of BA Mainline.

[bealine]

sorry if I upset you but I won't withdraw my statement.

........So, you think the term "How about dumping the old baggage and start off with virgin cabin crew,one third the cost,
half the average age,twice the smiles and twice the service." is acceptable , do you?

...or "these grumpy old gifts to aviation "???

In the UK, the law prevents you from using terms such as these. Sexism (implied) and Ageism is illegal and grossly offensive and, again,I am very surprised the moderators have done nothing to prevent our British Airways' crews from receiving these sorts of insults!!!

.........and, furthermore, VS cabin crew are now paid more than most BA crew. The new joiners at BA get £6950 pa - how many do you think end up staying???

[Basil]

Is 'Ageism' illegal in the UK?
If so why will you be retired at 55 or perhaps say, as a manager, turned down because you're 'too old'.
Genuine Q - honest.

Personally I think all the statutory -isms are attacks on free speech and debate but you don't want to hear me go on about that!:*

[hotstart54]

f

[BRUpax]

bealine , I think that your ranting is doing your company more harm than good! I have not stated anything about any named individual. Furthermore, you are attributing some quotes to me which I did not personally make! Last of all, as a PAYING CUSTOMER on the receiving end of the service provided by your company, I'm entitled to an opinion. You are of course entitled to disagree.

[CabinCadet]

.........and, furthermore, VS cabin crew are now paid more than most BA crew. The new joiners at BA get £6950 pa - how many do you think end up staying???
Bealine as far as I was aware new joiners start at £9950... could be wrong though?

[bealine]

Bealine as far as I was aware new joiners start at £9950... could be wrong though?

Sorry -you're right. No more ranting.
Seriously, though, the rent of a bedsitting room on the estate where I live is just short of £600 per month....and that is close to Gatwick, the cheaper airport. Rents close to Heathrow will be at least £100 higher. How does BA seriously expect anyone to survive, and to work cheerfully, on that sort of salary!

[norodnik]

BRUpax,

as a non-BA employee, I can only advise you to pi*s off and go fly someone else.

I have a been a gold card holder with BA for 10 years, and yes, I have had my disagreements and deserted to Virgin on one occasion.

However, in general, BA sets the standard for all other carriers. The crew are 90% great. You get gumpy gits sometimes, but I don't have a great day every day. When I used to fly with Virgin, the thought of having a sensible conversation with the CC was laughable. The VS crew just have a different mentality, some like it some don't.

Finally, and agreeing with bealine, I am often completely embarassed by the total lack of respect and manners shown by some pax on an aircraft. The amount of people who cannot muster even a please or thank you, or who throw stuff on the floor and expect to be cleaned up after is amazing. I wonder how they keep their tempers or manage not even the slightest snide comment.

Hats off to BA cc

[maxy101]

Bealine You have a point about the high rents in the South East of the UK. Maybe BA should pay higher Basic salaries and lower allowances? Isn't that what they are trying to change now?

[UFGBOY]

Why did the above stop cabin crew going on flights? - do they not self brief ?

[BRUpax]

Dear 10 year Gold Card norodnik ,

I do not treat airline personnel with disrespect and I always say please and thank you. I do not leave a mess behind me (same in hotels by the way). Despite this I do often feel as if I'm treated by many of today's cc as the scum you describe. I have been flying as pax for 49 years! By the way, there's a whole lot of difference on how pax Y and C pax are treated! I fly in both classes regularly.

Yes, I will choose the carrier I fly with based on merit when I can. Unfortunately, sometimes schedule or lack of competition on a route gives me no choice.

Looking back at this thread I see that my remarks appear to be anti BA and see why some of you are on the defence. In fact, my concerns/criticisms are valid for the airline industry in general - but I do include BA (and BACX in particular).

[norodnik]

Brupax,

congratulations on 49 years of flying.

I think your comments are a sad reflection of the customer services industry today.

I too am frequently astounded by the treatment I get in shops, on the phone etc etc.

Not to harp on too much, but one of the reasons I like BA is that its one of the few organisations that mostly provide what I expect and pay for. Other airlines are not nearly as good, and other companies,..... well lets not go there.

About 10 years ago I had the idea,with a few others, of starting a new "business meeting" facility" and we discussed ONLY hiring people over 65 as at least they could (most likely) be trusted to treat people better than the youth of today. Not saying we should put them in the air, but it was a fun idea.

[woodpecker]

£600 a month for a room?

I, amd my wife both managed to live in South Oxfordshire while on BA shorthaul. There are three bedroomed houses for rent around here for £700 a month, an hour at the most from the crew car-park!

[overstress]

Bealine I think you should take a look at the CAA website which details the average cost of employment of various groups within UK airlines. I'm sure someone cleverer than me can post a link to it. It will show you how overpaid BA cabin crew are AS A GROUP on average compared to crew in other airlines.

[BahrainLad]

Yes, £600 is very steep for a "bedsitting room"........either a deliberate or unintentional exaggeration?

[bealine]

Yes, £600 is very steep for a "bedsitting room"........either a deliberate or unintentional exaggeration?

No - neither.......and, to live in South Oxfordshire and commute to Heathrow would cost how much by car each way per month??? (......and don't even mention public transport - it's not compatible with the hours crew are required to work!)

The selling price of a one bedroom flat on this estate (purpose built in the 1980's as Gatwick Airport overspill, but mainly populated by City commuters) is now £165,000 - hence the sky high rents!

[BahrainLad]

Hmmmm.....30 seconds of tele-webbing has found a 3 bedroom house in Staines for £935pcm (that's the entire house.) Methinks you are not looking far enough.

[Hawk]

Starting to head way off track ladies and gentlemen.

[BahrainLad]

Hmmm it is indeed, but I feel it serves to highlight the continual 'plucking figures from air' mentality that exists on both sides when it comes to pay and cost of living discussions.

[LGWAlan]

Bealine - your quote "The selling price of a one bedroom flat on this estate (purpose built in the 1980's as Gatwick Airport overspill, but mainly populated by City commuters) is now £165,000 - hence the sky high rents!" would imply that you are on the most expensive estate in Crawley - having purchased a 2 bed house for less than the figure you quote in a separate part of Crawley - I can state that not all of Crawley has the same prices.

A quick look in the local rags proves this point. Friends are looking to purchase a 3 bed house for £170k in Crawley (of which there are plenty) - just not in the same estate as you probably reside.

(Edited for naff spelling)

[flyer55]

Yes did hear that Tampa flights were being subbed out for a month due to shortage of crew. However, their is alot of WW crew sitting on QRS and 24 hr availabilitys and not being used and WW LGW is over crewed in the purser rank, where as Eurofleet LGW has been overcrewed in the Purser rank for a year.