Light aircraft insurance warning

[ozplane]

Has anybody else received their insurance renewal for this year yet? I have usually insured my aircraft for £14K hull value and £1 million CSL and under a limited hours policy I have been paying around £650. This year, courtesy of the EU, I have to have a mandatory £1..2 million plus passenger indemnity of £200K for a total of £1.4million. My insurance company only deals in millions so it's rounded up to £2.0 million. Premium thiis year £920, an increase of 41%. Anybody got any ideas? I know the usual advice is not to shop around because it annoys the brokers but this increase does seem a bit fierce.

[Say again s l o w l y]

What? Not shopping around in case you annoy a broker?! Who cares. They don't have a monopoly, therefore you are quite within your rights to get as many quotes as possible.

I would always recommend that not only do you do this, but that you also let them know that you are doing this and tell them what your cheapest quote is. It's amazing how they will often beat it. It's all a process of negotiation.

Insurance is a necessary evil in todays life, but it doesn't mean we should roll over backwards, it's not as if they are doing you a favour by providing you with insurance. They are making alot of money out of us and I for one try to ensure that they work hard for every single penny.

[IO540]

It's OK to shop around; what one needs to avoid is for multiple quote requests for a particular aircraft ending up on the desk of any one underwriter. There are about 4 underwriters but many many brokers, probably about 40 in the UK.

If an underwriter gets multiple requests, he is supposed to refuse quoting on any after the first, for 30 days, but in reality he might just double the price for both of them, for fun.

I'd go to Haywards - they are as good value as anybody else and most brokers advertising in the aviation mags go via them anyway.

I pay £4000/year BTW, though the hull value is rather more than yours :O

[ozplane]

Thanks for the advice chaps. As I've been with the same outfit for 6 years (and happy) I'd rather got out of the loop for chasing further quotes. I'll give Haywards a go tomorrow.

[muffin]

I am considering buying a helicopter, so 10 days ago I e mailed three insurance outfits who advertise in Pilot to get some budgetary quotes. Haywards rang me within 2 hours of the enquiry and gave me a verbal quote on the phone. One of the others sent me an e mail after a week asking for further info on all sorts of details. The third has still not bothered to reply.

Haywards get my vote purely on the customer service. Unless the other are a lot cheaper, I know where I will go.

[Confabulous]

I was in an email discussion with Austin Meyer, creator of X-Plane (http://www.x-plane.com), and we got around to the topic of a/c insurance (he owns a Cirrus). He says he doesn't insure his a/c because it makes him a safer and richer pilot (no premium = more money for flying).

I was a fraction shocked to say the least, but could definitely see his point. Any thoughts on this approach?

Confab

[dublinpilot]

Well, if I had an asset worth 1/4 million, there is no way I wouldn't insure it.

Presumably he must have 3rd party insurance, otherwise most airports wouldn't let him fly in there.

I think someone might have been telling you a story ;)

dp

[DubTrub]

My renewal came through, with a 22% increase, raising the CSL from GBP0.5M to GBP1.5M. After IPT and no-claim discount, the net increase is 7% (about £60). Hull value GBP15K.

[IO540]

confabulous

I pay 4k, of which slightly over half is the hull cover. The 3rd party cover is some millions; can't recall how many but basically it covers all of Europe.

Let's assume I pay for 3rd party only.

The worst incident which I am likely to have and not get killed might be a botched landing. This could wreck the plane, but more likely it would be a gear-up or something like that and that, done on a hard runway, tends to be around £30k.

So, after 15 years of not paying for hull insurance, I would be showing a profit, and will be getting (very roughly) 25 free flying hours every year.

I can fit a radar altimeter for £6k which, wired to the gear, should eliminate accidental gear-up completely, which leaves just the case where it won't come down.

This leaves taxiing incidents which are common enough but rarely cost many thousands, and if they are the other man's fault then you can get him to pay for it :O The BIG EXCEPTION is potholes at grass airfields (£20k a time, inc VAT) and one just has to be very careful, walking the route first even if it really p155e5 off those waiting behind you while being charged brakes off to brakes on :O

Also remember that one cannot regard insurance as some sort of investment as people tend to - if you claim more than 2 or 3 times nobody will want to insure you and that will end your flying career for good. This improves the case for not buying hull cover quite dramatically. Ever tried to claim on a fully comp cover on some car damage, and added up the premiums over the following 5-7 years?

So it's a fair point of view.

[Ludwig]

There is an alternative to paying insurance premiums to the existing market.
How about a group of like-minded individuals getting together and self-insuring. Each pays their premium into a pot and when or if an accident befalls another member of the group, they are paid from the pot. In the event that there is a shortfall when someone claims, all the group members stump-up the shortfall.

It would even be possible for this group to take money from non-group members to cover them, but without them having to assume unlimited liability. I’m surprised no one has thought of this before. The group would get to keep any profits; after all most contributors statistically will never claim.

Perhaps we should all meet in a coffee house somewhere and talk about it. We could even name the idea after the coffee house. Now that would be original. Let’s call it, er…..
:ok:

[airborne_artist]

Great idea Ludwig - we could call it Starbucks - I'm sure they wouldn't mind.

[Ludwig]

Starbucks Aviation, yes that has a ring to it:cool:

[ozplane]

Dubtrub, would it be indiscreet to ask who you use for your insurance ass it seems to correspond with my requirements pretty well?

[DubTrub]

Oz
I use Haywards 020 7902 7800
They have an excellent scheme of one named pilot (the Insured), then leave the nomination of other pilots down to me. Obviously, in event of another pilot giving rise to a claim, I might have to answer why I permitted that person to fly, so I must excercise due diligence in allowing others to fly.

[Floppy Link]

If you fly less than 40hr/yr try the "Power by the Hour" scheme advertised in the PFA mag - I just got a very competitive quote...
Russell

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