Petition for the abolition of Crossbows

[RADAR Advisory]

I am not normally one to rise to comments on this forum. I like to keep an eye on it though as there are often some useful and amusing threads. I am, however, rather pi&&ed off to be having to read some of the drivel being written on these threads. Who is this Bugger Crossbow? He is plainly not of an aviation background by his own (unintentional) admission.

The last time I looked at this forum it was for Professional aircrew in the military environment. Why on Earth should we be listening to the New Labour election Supremo?!

Anyone care to join my unofficial petition to remove this stain from PPRuNe?

Thoughts most welcome!

Rant over, proceeding directly to my box.

RA

[Lafyar Cokov]

Hopefully Crossbow now has a thread dedicated specifically to him - so having achieved what he wanted, hopefully he'll now f*** off back to kindergarten.

LC

[Rotate]

Well said LC and RA,

It deeply saddens me that there are still people out there who seem intent on baiting or getting a rise out of others at a time when there are undoubtedly more important items on the agenda.

It verges on being disrespectful at times. Just stop and think about it before you post! I am sure they know who they are, and completely understand what I am saying. If you don't, there is an OFF button on that box in front of you! Use it!

This is not just aimed at xbow, however, I am sure a shot will come back across the bow! Ducking now.

I do normally just read and observe, however, recent postings have stirred me into action also.

[16 blades]

I have just read through a list of crossbow's posts. It appears that his only bent here is to derise and belittle those who are not 'on' his message. None of his posts contain anything of any substance.

However, as one who often rants, and posts on controversial subjects, I cannot condone his 'removal' from the boards. I am always advocating free speech, and I must hold myself to my own standards for once. I have been on the recieving end of the thought police in here, and nothing annoys me more than being silenced by another who thinks my views should not be allowed to 'poison' the 'purity' of their politics.

This is one of the few places left where we have some degree of free speech. As annoying and distateful as this chaps posts are, we should not sink to his level and that of his Improved New Labour masters and seek to censure him because we disagree.

I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it - Descartes

Crossbow:

Please take heed, you have offended a great many people in here. None of my defence of your right to expression, however, changes the fact that you are a 24-carat tw@t.

16B

[WorkingHard]

As I am one of those to whom reference is being made perhaps I could clarify a few things. I actually do work as a pilot. I am ex mil. I have nothing to do with politics and, especially for Radar Advisory, please do not forget we pay you to defend our freedoms, including a limited right of free speech. Just don't read the boards if they upset you so much. Do you apply your "principles" in the mess/crew room/place of work/kindergarten?. Perhaps better still if you don't like it go and live somewhere that freedom does not exist.

[Maple 01]

So what's Crossbow's main offence? Not seing the world your way? Or not being mil?

his Improved New Labour masters

Oh I see.......So if he was supporting your views he would be welcome?

If you want the right-wing bigot's forum I'd suggest the Daily Mail as a good starting point

[Cambridge Crash]

Perhaps I have a different PPrune home page, but the Military thread isn't exclusiely for aircrew. Let's drop the 'no stick, no vote' attitude that has stultified RAF senior management for too many years. I, too, have been criticised because of my liberal progressive viewpoint which has been dismissed by some crew room Queens on the basis that I am a student. I also have 20 years' Commissioned Service. PPrune threads would be very very dull without controversial postings; challenge orthodoxy, I say!

[brakedwell]

Just add crossbow et al to your Ignore List if you don't want to read the rubbish they post!

[glum]

Er. Isn't this the 'Military Aircrew' forum?

I don't want to silence anyone, even though several on here do get on my nerves with their antagonistic posts. However I do wish the threads woulds stay closer to the object of this board - there's plenty of other places for totally off topic posting!

[snafu]

Yes, it's the Military Aircrew forum, but if you read the blurb on the front page to the forums, you will see that it is designed for:

A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.

We also get a lot of past and potential military aviators and people who are interested in military aviation in general. Just because it is the Military Aircrew forum doesn't mean that only military aircrew are allowed to look at it or contribute - it's on the Internet after all! By your logic, I shouldn't be allowed to look at or contribute to the forums for Flying Instructors, ATC, Flight Testing or Terms and Endearment for commercial aviators, because I'm none of those things.

Crossbow, hyd3failure et al may occasionally post stuff that others may or may not agree with....live with it! It's called free speech and, unless they contravene the PPRuNe rules, they should be allowed to carry on. Other than "4 Asso's EPs" (??) we are the only forum on PPRuNe that has no official moderator. I hope this is because Danny and the rest of the mods have realised that we are self-moderating and they just take the occasional scan through what we are saying. This is a privilege and one we should be proud of.

[crossbow]

You are all very generous but like the man said - If you don't agree with me then form an argument better than mine. Banning me because my argument stands up better than yours isn't very grown up. So, lets have some freedom of speech. Lets stop sending me insults and swearing at me and lets have some grown up, adult arguments and discussions. :ok: :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Just a little input.

We all disagree with one another much of the time but are in agreement some of the time. The odd thing about some posts is that we disagree all of the time.

The inference is that the person posting is trolling and always looking for the countervailing view. I may be wrong as I have not looked at all the posts of the named individuals but for most it holds true.

Maybe a little more openess behind the annonimity? I know my cover has been blown by at least 4 people not counting Louise Yeoman.

How about it then? Warton is certainly an emotive location.

[Eye off the ball]

'an argument better than mine'.... 'grown up adult discussions?'
Crossbow- you should reread some of your posts, a few of them are far from adult and are usually designed to wind people up.

I think you're a class one tw*t but what do I know. How you have enough time at Warton to post on nearly every thread recently is beyond me.

[WebPilot]

"If you don't agree with me then form an argument better than mine"

As we saw on the "New Police Tactics M4" thread, this isn't very difficult. I agree that a healthy forum needs a broad range of opinions and debate, however to quote Monty Python, "Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes".

If you want to debate, then do so in a meaningful, non-polemic way. Simply making ill-informed inflammatory statements or trotting out political slogans gains nothing other than getting you flamed.

[SirToppamHat]

Can't attribute this I am afraid, but a far wiser person than me once said:

"A discussion is an exchange of intelligence. An argument is an exchange of ignorance."

It seems to me that there are certain posters on these forums who are only interested in taking a contrary view, whatever the subject. Crossbow is an easy target because recent posts have defended (astonishingly IMHO) the current bunch of wasters who claim to run the country. Those of us in the Real RAF (which does not seem to include Warton) can see the actual effects of the bolleaux policies being spouted in the name of efficiency, and making us a more effective fighting force, which are actually more to do with saving money.

Now then, how do I use the 'Ignore' Tool....


STH

[glum]

snafu,

I'm not aircrew, I'm a military techie. I simply meant that discussions such as the one about the M4 police isn't really related to aviation, or the military.

I go elsewhere to discuss stuff not related to either...

[crossbow]

Thats true, its not related to Aviation however there are no rules as to what we discuss here and on many threads the discussions are concerned with the Government. I do think though that the M4 thread was started as a warning to military people (whether Aircrew or not) of the potential dangers along the M4 - a road which is very popular with military people.

[Training Risky]

I agree with the principle of free speech.

I just reserve the right to state when a certain poster is posting inaccurate, misleading information (especially when it comes to auth'ing pax flights.)

That's all.

[hyd3failure]

Training Risk - see yr PM's

[SmilingKnifed]

I, along with the majority on this board, am all in favour of a person's right to free speech.

But when a sanctimonious tit such as Crossbow chooses to exercise that right, I do have to wonder!

[crossbow]

sanctimonious ... Blimey no.... Ivebeen in the dwang more times than I care to remember and the last time last my flying cat for 2 weeks... !!! Didn't like that 1. No Im not santicmonious. I'm a bloomin top bloke who loves flyin' and is a chamion Uckers god...but not sanctimonious. Thanks for asking anyway.

[Roghead]

I also find some of Crossbow's contributions to these Forums odd at best, contentious certainly and invariably poorly presented, shallow and displaying unconvincing logic - so he must be a TP then :rolleyes:
Seriously, however, should his Warton location be Flt Ops and his inferrence is that he is a current aviator, then the crew room (if it survived the rebuilding) must surely be a better place for banter and the usual aircrew exchange of ideas than the place it had descended into by 2001.
Keep up the good work, old son, both these Forums and Flt Ops need input such as yours.:ok:

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Just going back a few posts to Mr Working Hard. This is a plea to your better nature, but why oh why did you perpetuate the Low Flying thread with ridiculous suggestions and very obvious questions if, as you claim, you are ex mil. You are a pilot in civvy street, were you a mil pilot?? I would have thought someone who had served with her Majesty's finest would not have to ask inflammatory questions on a public forum about the very contentious issue of low flying? Maybe I am being stupid but it just doesnt add up.

I dont think we should get worked up about Crossbow, (s)he makes some valid points but also can be a little obnoxious at times, but then again cant we all? The combination of a bad day, stress etc etc can make some posts on this forum a little heated and I am sure that on reflection (as I do sometimes) we may wish to reconsider our posts.

If you are a wind up merchant crossbow you are then you are probably loving this attention so continue to add a little ray of sunshine in our lives..............

Regards

DS;)

[crossbow]

No guys. Im not a wind up merchant but I do like to discuss the more contentious issues. Such as Low Flying. Why? well I am a real fan of Low flying. I love it. Its fab, great fun and its one of the true sorties where I find the more you put into the planning phase and the execution then the more you get out of the sortie. However, I have it on very good authority that we (the armed forces) will soon have the UKLFS removed. Now, I don't think thats a good decision.In fact its an awful decision. BUT its not me you have to persuade. Its mrs treehugger and her MP. Cos they are the ones knocking at the door of Buff and demanding that the RAF stop whazzing over her house at midnight and scaring the horses. Now I have had the misfortune to be the subject of a low flying complaint when the formation i was leading (apparently) disturbed and subsequently killed a horse (Thankfully I was above 2000' and had the radar and radio evidence to prove it). I have also been witness to a very good friend who was Court martialled for unauthorised Low Flying (prob his own fault but it still hurts to see yr mate go down).
And so whilst I like a good manly discussion on the affairs which affect Military aviators, I also enjoy asking the odd awkward question. One of which caused a lot of anxiety. That question still remains as there is only one guy on here who has had the guts to try and form a reply. The rest of you just rant and rave and swear at me for having the audacity to ask such a question.
And so the question remains (for you all except one guy)
Why should we low fly in the UK when our area of Operations is in the Gulf? Thats the question Mrs Treehugger and her MP are asking. So serious answers only please.

[Roghead]

Now I may have given a form of qualified support to you Crossbow, but you can't go hi-jacking other people's threads (however worthwhile the LFS issue may be). Suggest you repost your last on the appropriate thread (yours as it happens)
I do agree with you, however, that we need to come up with arguments FOR the continuance of low flying training in the UK which will convince the right people.

[dmanton300]

Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes".

No it isn't.

[Eagle 270]

I think this might explain a few things concerning our 'new SilsoeSid'.

Trolls (http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm)

[brakedwell]

Pinnoccio and Walter Mitty spring to mind when describing a tosser like Xbow

[lineslime]

Unfortunatly I believe in free speech so instead of the abolition of crossbow how about the retrospectve abortion. If nobody goes for that we could also go for neutering to avoid mini crossbows entering decent society.

[Monty77]

Somebody please suggest exactly WHERE the entire fast-jet, rotary and SF herc fleets can TRAIN at low flying outside the UK. Then I'll give you reasons why your choice is impractical. Any takers? Crossbow?

[brakedwell]

lineslime
No need to neuter crossbow, everything he does and says is off target.

[Lafyar Cokov]

Crossbow - could you please actually explain what you fly - it's just some of the points you made in your last post don't seem to add up..??

Cheers

LC

[brakedwell]

Like being at Liverpool University before joining the RAF in 1976? That would make crossbow at least 51 years old. He implies that he is flying Typhoons out of Warton and would go back to Jaguars if the third tranche is canned. As I said before, both Pinnoccio and Walter Mitty spring to mind!
What a plonker!!!

[FJJP]

Eagle 270 - brilliant link. Describes crossbow to a tee. Bit in there for PPP, to decide whether or not he agrees that crossbow is an internet troll. I'm sure Eagle 270 won't mind my repeating his link to reinforce many of our feelings about this individual. Everyone should read it:

http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm

crossbow - troll alert...

[joe2812]

If indeed he is an internet troll, surely this post is giving him the attention, and spreading the ill-feeling, which he ultimately set out to achieve?

I suggest not continuing this thread and whenever he posts totally ignore them and don't comment on any of the points made. :E

(Should you be 100& true in what you say x-bow, I take it all back mate)

[Pilgrim101]

Brakedwell

You got that too huh ? Everyone knows that RAF officers of that age group are mature, experienced, debonair, skilful and far too rich to bother flying any more. Whereas Crossbow is, well, not......:E

Trolls are just too stupid to keep it going for long, but I have to admit some of them are fun.

[oldfella]

As a newcomer to posting on this site, but having read in over quite some time, I wait to be slagged off.

I may not agree with all that Crossbow goes on about but it is an open forum and he has as much right to comment as anyone else. His comments or observations may be out of phase with the majority. His posts may be contovertial or even in bad taste but he has the right to post. He does not have the right to be
(h)(r)eard.

If you are offended, just ignore it. Too often in the past an interesting thread has gone off the way resulting in the schoolboy arguments of mine is bigger, better, lower, faster, than yours.

He has the right to his opinions. Everyone else has the right to ignore them.

[crossbow]

The rest of you just rant and rave and swear at me for having the audacity to ask such a question.



come on people. Lets get some serious discussion going here rather than threats, intimidation and ranting and raving....so far the answer to the question - why should we low fly in the uk has been:

1. cos your a ********
2. winker
3. cos we want 2

Im not as old as that but I am over 45

anyway, if no one can come up with a reason then Im afraid we will have to wave goodbye to the UKLFS. If you cannot form a decent argument then that will be the end of it

[16 blades]

What, like you have any say in the matter, crossbow?

If you don't know the reason why we low fly, you are not who you claim to be, and would not understand if someone could be bothered explaining it to you.

Im not as old as that but I am over 45

...months, perhaps.

16B

[Big Cat Handler]

So what we need here is some sort of e-Billy Goat Gruff. Not up to the job myself, but I'm sure someone can do it!

crossbow:

1. cos your a ********
2. winker
3. cos we want 2

There's are threads for it out there (although the JHC one has lots of banter and not much reasoning) and a few people have given you good reasons for LF being necessary. You're doing a good job of Devil's Advocate though, and I'm beginning to wonder if you have a point - we in the Military know exactly why we need to low fly, but MPs aren't in the Military, and nor are the general public, so possibly we do need to explain this to them as if they're very very stupid.

None of which stops you from being a ******** or a winker if you so wish.

BCH

[stillin1]

Crossbow,
I suspect that if you really want honest and frank replies you are going to have to display your credentials.
At the moment you only come across as a "wind-up merchant", with dubious "professional" qualifications.
IMHO No one is taking you seriously, as an equal, nor I'm afraid as an individual worthy of a respectful response. From what field of expertise do you base you statements?
This remains a forum not a pi**ing contest, come to the table with something cogent to say! The "I'm only playing devil's advocate" does not cut it.

P.S. READ some of the replies you have had - they fully answer the naive Q you pose

(all spelling mistakes are to annoy any English teachers reading this) :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Someone asked the quite reasonable question:

<<Why should we low fly in the UK when our area of Operations is in the Gulf?>>

Of course the underlying assumption that our AOA is in the Gulf is central to the question. Is the assumption valid?

Most Gulf States are friendly and can provide useful low flying but they are not operational areas. Iraq, OTH, has been badland territory for 14 or so years but not, one hopes, for much longer.

Afghanistan is not, as far as my limited knowledge of geography is concerned is not the Gulf. The height of the terrain there however makes much medium altitude flying very near the ground. (Note the 'new' term altitude flying that was introduced about 30 years ago. Level flying gets you killed).

Last time I flew low level over Iran it looked much like a mix between industrial conurbations and Arizona. It did not look like desert except for the various messa.

Africa is not in the Gulf. Africa does have deserts and Libyia was great for low flying but lots of other areas have jungle.

Rushing round the treetops in Malaysia is also great fun and a quick way to lose weight.

The Falklands is not exatly flat, nor is it sandy.

I could go on but my point is that we are not solely engaged in the Gulf. After 15 years that focus must reduce. Other flash points will arise. How would a desert trained air force have coped in Yugoslavia?

We must train in areas with cultural features as much as natural ones so that we maintain a general level of competence that can be honed to FOC as required. You cannot do this in a couple of weeks.

Comments?

[PTT]

For those who crossbow is attempting to goad into further discourse on this subject, I posted a reply to all his questions, which he accepted quite graciously, on the JHC thread.

The fact that he is still trying to discuss it leads me to believe he is trolling.

[Pilgrim101]

Yeah,

Why such a senior officer can't spell "allude" just "eludes" me :p

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Is this (http://xo.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2005011923a8da1.jpg) Crossbow in his aircraft?

[stillin1]

Yeah!
Why then, with that pedigree, ask such daft questions? I'm utterly mystified (a common occurance)
Are you a current service pilot?
Have you flown on an operational Sqn on ops?
:cool:
(all spelling mistakes are still to annoy any English teachers reading this)

[Lafyar Cokov]

Ahh the old Empire Test Pilot School School!!!!

[BEagle]

And WTF is a T1? Beech Jayhawk?

TMAC....

[Pilgrim101]

Tucano I think ? Anyway, I think he's just kiteflying on the forum :8

[BEagle]

Would people actually admit to flying the Spicano? Even transverse archers?

[Pilgrim101]

So,

Tucano too ? Retrograde step for a man who went to Liverpool Uni (John Moore's now ?) joined the RAF in 1976, who's now "over 45" (That should be vague enough for them Ppruners) and has flown everything from a Hawker Hind to the Space Shuttle. Oh and he's a TP, you just knew he was going to be one of those too didn't you.

I bet he drives a Morgan three wheeeler :rolleyes:

[The Rocket]

I think he's referring to the mighty TypeHoon T1, thus pretending to be on 17 or 29 at Warton.

[lineslime]

Either way he is still a T1T!:ok:

[crossbow]

whats a


Tucano? (http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/typhoon.html)

[RADAR Advisory]

I rest my case . . . . . .

[Pilgrim101]

Crossbow

You're on Candid Camera ! :E

[crossbow]

whats a Candid camera?

[RADAR Advisory]

Suggest you check the meaning of the word candid in the dictionary . . . if you know where to find one.

[jindabyne]

crossbow

What is the Villa?

Where is The Grapes?

What's in 5 hangar?

What is the connection between JT/MR4?

[crossbow]

Isn't this great. I ask a querstion and the horror of the answer is soooo scary that rather than face up to answering the question the general comment is abusive and hurtful. For example. I ask the question: Why should we low fly in the UK? The answers so far have been:

1.No need to neuter crossbow, everything he does and says is off target.

2.What a plonker!!!

3. TMAC....

4. he is still a T1T.

which leads me to the conclusion that (Except for one person) the rest of you are either Journo's fishing or groundcrew who don't know anything about OLF. Whatever you are, you are clearly not that bothered about retaining OLF in the UK as there clearly isn't a requirment.

[RADAR Advisory]

Crossbow, me old, your mere questioning what a Tucano is has dropped you right in the middle of the 'pretending to be something that you are not' slot. If you were a (FJ) pilot as you are leading us to try to believe, then you would surely know what one is! In fact I think most of the RAF, and space cadets included, would know!

Rather telling wot.


As for nobody answering your questions, it seems that they have been answered continuously here and on other threads. There are very strong arguments for keeping OLF and the UKLFS, and they are all in the public domain as well as here.

As it is, I haven't heard any rumours within the service that the UKLFS is under threat of abolition. Always under threat of being reduced in size and opening hours, but not total abolition.

Now chum, any NEW questions from a keen and intersted member of the public, and I may assume, tax payer?

RA

[jindabyne]

crossbow

Your original queston re-UKLFS is valid, but your protestations over the quality of replies could be a little thin: there are ample subject comments on this thread and others that exhaust the topic.

It is the content and tone of some of your posts that has caused fellow PPRuNers to question your authenticity and motive. In my own post I'm simply trying to establish the former and thereby, if your claims are genuine, help your cause.

So for starters, will you answer my 4 simple questions?

[crossbow]

Of course I know what a Tucano is but having never had the opportunity to fly in one then I was just being a little cheeky. Sorry to all you Tucano people.

[foldingwings]

crossbow,

You sad old chap! You have lowered your aim to such a degree that you have shot your bolt into both your feet - rather than being the shooter (as your name implies) you have become the target. Never a good thing for a fighter pilot to do and now, in a vain attempt to recover your position, you have lost your SA and your MAP is f***ed! I should bang out now before they close in for a guns kill.

I'll be kind! Let us suppose that you are military and are privileged to fly the latest wonder (not my words) jet at Warton. We can presume that you are either, therefore, a TP - makes sense - doesn't understand how to relate to people only machines - hasn't operationally low flown for years but has read about it in a book - or a Fighter pilot - makes sense - doesn't understand how to relate to people only machines - hasn't operationally low flown for years but has read about it in a book.

What is clear is that you are an arrogant, egotistical knob which clearly qualifies you for either of the 2 descriptions above.

The problem you have is that you are asking the wrong people to answer your question. This is a military aircrew forum. People on here know why we OLF and the fact that people out there don't understand is for Corporate Comms and the RAF Bfg Team to resolve. If you want to be provocative, then direct your question to the editor of The Daily Mail; that would certainly stir up a Hornet's Nest! But don't entertain your ego by continiung with this thread.

However, IMHO, the reason we conduct OLF and should continue to do so is because the next war will not be the same as the last war. Heaven help us, in 1991 we had to relearn how to release weapons from Medium Level having spent our lives charging about at 100ft!!

So, crossbow! If you are 45, if you do fly Typhoon and your son is really considering a career in the RAF, show some maturity and give us all a break. Change your callsign before you're outed and your son's life in the military is affected by having an idiot for a father.

Finally, if the implication is true that you are a Typhoon driver, where is one of your toys stranded today? The correct answer will prove that you are at least, in someone's eyes, of worth to society!

Foldingwings

[BEagle]

Harsh.....

.....but fair!

[hyd3failure]

Tee Hee, this is brilliant.

So, why do you think we should conduct LF training in the UK?


Because youre a T1T !


Good, thank you for your answer. I’m sorry but your application to join the RAF has been unsuccessful. Have you considered joining the Navy, I’m sure they could fit you in.

[crossbow]

hahahaha, you may laugh hyd3failure (which aircraft has 3 Hydraulic systems?) but I don't think its funny.

Anyway, my sources in MOD tell me that we may have lost that battle so I'm shifting target. No mor LF drips...the next item on the agenda shall now be up for discussion.

Will the reduction in Flying Hours have a detrimental affect on our OC ?

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Foldingwings

What a marvellous piece of prose, right on the money I would suggest.

Crossbow

C U Next Tuesday if you catch my drift;)

Apologies for descending into textspeak, or whatever BEags calls it but I feel it fitting.........................:D

[crossbow]

Thank you for that. And I thought you were a mate !!! Thats the last time I buy you a beer.

[glum]

So where's this Typhoon then Crossbow?

[WebPilot]

<where's this Typhoon> ...hanging from the ceiling of his bedroom, with gluey fingerprints all over the canopy and the fin flash on back to front, I should think.

[Pilgrim101]

Webpilot

"""""""with gluey fingerprints all over the canopy and the fin flash on back to front, I should think.""""""""


The real one could well be like that too !! ;):E

[BEagle]

And no doubt extra weapons acquired from Airfix using that 'Nature of Complaint' slip so often used by little boys writing to Haldane(?) Place!

[Matt Skrossa]

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde: There is only one thing worse than been talked about and that is NOT being talked about. Therefore if we stop talking to/about crossbow then maybe, just maybe he'll disappear (some hope). Crossbow, in answer to your question 'which aircraft has 3 hydraulic systems' I know of one, the Sea King, with primary, auxiliary and utilities. No doubt you will use this piece of info to convince everyone that you are now an expert on helicopters as well as being a right know-it-all on every other aviation subject under the sun.

Ooops, just failed at the first hurdle and talked to and about crossbow, I promise to buck up!

[captain sanity]

Me thinks old Crossbow may be talking b0ll0x re his carreer to date. I have recently departed the EF world at Warton and know of no one with his credentials. But then talking b0ll0x seems to be his forte!

CS

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Come one crossbow, where are you. Everyone is laughing at you, are you not going to defend yourself???

He is probably busy writing a Valentines Card to Geoff Hoon or being a sycophantic little turd somewhere else on PPrune.

[Splash Coxswain]

Hyd3

I don't know what you're tee heeing about! You were the target of despise a couple of weeks ago for being equal in tw*ttishness to this prat!

Or is it just that the spotlight has moved?

Splash

[stillin1]

Nice one chaps,
I do believe we have finally "splashed" this little annoyance.
The inability to even talk the talk let alone walk the walk was a tad obvious. (ooh that reminds me - what's a TAD?)
Happy hunting :yuk:

[FJJP]

Oh dear! I've just noticed that we've all been arguing over the wrong thing on this thread - the title refers to a petition to get rid of CROSSBOWS (the weapon) - not Crossbow!

Although, come to think of it...

[hyd3failure]

Target of despise...? Me? what have I done?

No, No I was just laffing at crossbow(s) (is there 2 of 'em?)

[VoicesFromTheCreche]

Talking of 2 of them, anyone seen hyd3failure and crossbow online at the same time? That little conversation between them earlier may have been a smoke screen (6 mins between posts), and they both joined their services in 1976 (we think). Post if you see them online together!

[nick0021]

WBF,

Just had to say, that was one of the funniest posts i have ever seen! (Top of page 4). Have never laughed so much on my own before! How very funny!

:ok: :ok: :ok: :p :p

[Maple 01]

The Catholic Church says it's OK to use crossbows, but only against heretics and unbelievers...........

Sorry, isn't this the History channel?

[Roghead]

I retract most of my earlier post apart from the bit about TP's. (Folding wings and I agree about that.) Crossbow you are an embarrasing pillock with absolutely no credability and whilst clowns are fun for a while, their strange humour doesn't last for long. You are the weakest link, good bye.

[crossbow]

No - I'm here and working hard to provide a servicable aircraft for future warriors of the clouds.

[jindabyne]

So answer my questions!

[Gus T Breeze]

Being a relative newcomer to this site, it has been quite amusing to observe the vitriol being hurled at Crossbow. However, it brought to mind a 'put down' that I once heard a stand-up comedian deliver to a heckler, which went as follows: "Sir, God ruined a perfect ar*@hole when he put teeth in your mouth!"

Most appropriate I thought.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

"No - I'm here and working hard to provide a servicable aircraft for future warriors of the clouds."

Not according to the poster at the top of this page:rolleyes: and why can't you can answer jindabyne's 4 questions??

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[foldingwings]

Based on his last post, and assuming that he's not Hyd3failure in disguise, I'll lays odds he's an engineer on the UAS 'cos he appears to know sod all about anything that deals with EF at Warton!

Checking it out with my engineer chums as we speak!



Jindabyne,

Thought you told me that you had decided to stop engaging tossers on here?

Foldingwings

[burpblade]

crossbow and hyd3failure must be considered front runners for this months Pprune Recognition of Activity Trophy.

Hyd 3 should possibly get a lifetime award.

(groanworthy, but it came to me as I was reading hyd3's latest on the pizza Lynx thread)

[foldingwings]

crossbow,

Are you, or is your boss, Mr Curds at Liverpool UAS?

Honest answer please!

foldingwings

[Green Meat]

Sorry Crossbow, but it went awfully, awfully qwiet (Elmer Fudd speak) when I replied to your PM. Did my CV snippet put you off?

[foldingwings]

Folks,

He won't come back here because he's getting too much flak but he's talking Grade 1 Sh1te here:


Political gain from military action (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162506)

[crossbow]

He won't come back here because he's getting too much flak but he's talking Grade 1 Sh1te here

yeah right....you wanna read that load of codswallop from CC

[nick0021]

Spotted @ 16:35 08/02/2005 - Crossbow & Hyd3Failure logged on Simultaneously.

[hyd3failure]

Guys. Ive been watching this for a while now and I can categorically state that I am not crossbow. There are currently 735 people viewing this site and the fact that I am logged on at the same time as that pompouse g1t is coincidental. I dont come from warton, Im not in the Air force, I don't fly FJ. Its clear from my name which aircraft I fly....

...just thought, maybe its not clear. There maybe lots of aircraft with 3 Hydraulic systems. Seaking for one, although they call there No3 system the utility system. Anyway - its the Lynx. The worlds fastest helicopter. The Lynx is the bird for me...que sara sara

[airborne_artist]

It's que sera, sera, unless that is, you are saying what to my wife?

[hyd3failure]

no - my wife..... My wife is Sara. Is your wife Sara as well?

[Splash Coxswain]

Aah Hyd3Failure,

The Lynx is it? Could I have one Marguerita, one Calzone and 2 Quattro Staggiones please for 1830 tonight!

Splash

[Green Meat]

nick0021, this means nothing, a couple of computers, a few pprune user accounts and sorted!

[lineslime]

Perhaps the name is relative to the person.

Q. What is a crossbow?

A. It is an offencive weapon.

See any similarities anyone?

Oh by the way, the good old C130K has 3 hyd systems as well (if the aux system counts).:D

[jindabyne]

Maybe he is very close to the Bowman project?!


foldingwings

can't resist the hunt old boy - chap's an absolute plank

[Lafyar Cokov]

I thought we were supposed to state what aircraft we flew - not what deodorant we used!!!

[captain sanity]

JINDABYNE,
Completely concur with your post: "maybe you are part of the BOWMAN project". I had my suspicions too. Making the CV somewhat innacurate ?
CS

[TurbineTooHot]

Q. What is a crossbow?

A. It is an offensive weapon.


Don't you mean he's an offensive tool.

Weapon is just a bit too sharpe and steely.

TTH

[WebPilot]

I wonder if the thread on this page titled "Viking TX Mk.1?" might give some more clues as to the identity of the "mighty T1".

Meanwhile the post in which Crossbow announced he was ex-ETPS seems to have vanished....

[smartman]

Close to being outed, I suspect the man has gone to ground -----
watch out for the emergence of a 'new' PPRuNer!

[jindabyne]

What with all this talk of Tx Mk1 and T1, are we sure that we've got the right Mark?

[Green Meat]

I've come up with what I modestly think is good advice for people who claim interesting CVs or have come phishing. Go and research a job to the extent that you do it for some time. Once that's compete, come back with comments about it. You'll be fully briefed then, won't you?

:ok:

[Hueymeister]

Could he be Mike Hegland?

[TurbineTooHot]

That cheese piece hasn't show himself round here for a while...

Scans parapet with TIALD for any heads popping up...

[foldingwings]

jindabyne!

Your being very naughty now!

foldingwings

[jindabyne]

foldingwings

Aaaah! So you're agreeing with smartman and myself then?

[16 blades]

A post from Crossbow:

Nice thread but from the replies you are close to the wind. surely remarks such as


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Borrow a service revolver, go behind the nearest hangar and do the decent thing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

is suggesting we mureder the PM and overthrow the government -

are you suggesting a military coup? Fraid the 24,000,000 people who voted for His Tonyness wouldn't agree with you.

VOTE LABOUR

....And a quote from Hyd3failure:

Pr00ne said


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As to your assertion that previous Tory cuts were “just about in line with commitments” GET REAL MAN! They were at the height of the Cold war and involved reducing air defence capability, massive cuts to amphibious and maritime air capability, huge reductions in the RN surface fleet and general reductions in war reserves. If the Argentines had waited about 8 months to invade the Falklands then thanks to the Tory cuts from Thatcher and Nott there would have been no way on earth to get them back!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


well said fella. Lets never let the Conservative party ruin this country again. The Labour party have just about got this country back on its feet again after years of sleeze and misgovernment.

VOTE LABOUR

...Spooky, or just coincidence....

....YOU decide!

16B

[Roland Pulfrew]

Or the start of a conspiracy theory?? :suspect: :suspect: :suspect:

[foldingwings]

A moment's latteral thought has produced the following:

Collins English Dictionary:

Crossbow (n) - a type of medieval bow fixed transversely on a stock grooved to direct a square-headed arrow. 'cross, bowman (n).

Bowman (n) - an archer.

RAF Retired List 2002:

Bowman M N BSc(Eng) Born 1960 Retd 1998 GD Branch

RAF List 1998:

Bowman M N BSc (Eng) tp qwi qs (GD/P)

So, we have a 45-year old (admitted) former RAF pilot at Warton (admitted) who is a TP called Bowman (possibly), who has proved himself to have a transverse view to almost the rest of society (well at least on PPRuNE).

Collins English Dictionary:

Transverse (adj) - 1. crossing from side to side; athwart; crossways. 2. a transverse piece or object.

Thus: crossbow!

In the sense of cross-dresser, cross-coupled; cross-eyed; crosshatched; cross-opinionated (OK, I made that last one up).


Well, done Watson, now get back to work!

[lineslime]

TTH

A weapon for sure as tools are useful, unless in the wrong hands.:ok:

Not all weapons are sharp and steely, there are still some rather blunt and dumb weapons around.

[Green Meat]

I hate to shoot down what appears to be a well-researched point, but Crossbow himself says:

I did atend University at Liverpool (Before they named it after a catologue). However, in 1976 when I joined the RAF

Now, Bowman M N BSc(Eng) Born 1960 Retd 1998 GD Branch would mean joining the RAF at 16 (possible) then going to Liverpool Uni (looking shaky? What were the in-service degree options at that time?). If the other way around then either Crossbow has a typo on his join date or this is not the person in question.

Over to you.

[foldingwings]

Green Meat,

Fair point, well made but I must defer to BEagle here as I recall he once announced to PPRuNe that he went to university in the 70s having already started his RAF career. ie. There must have been a scheme that brought you in, gave you some training, sent you off for a degree, then brought you back for some more training. Might have been the Green Shield (as commonly known)system or another special deal!

crossbow has admitted to being 45 now, so 1960 is bang on!!

Over to you BEagle.

[Jackonicko]

Mark Bowman (a Warton TP and ex-Harrier mate, and, 20-odd years ago at least, a BLOODY GOOD BLOKE) is younger than Crossbow, and was a University Cadet at London UAS, not Liverpool, while I was there. If memory serves he graduated in 1982 (or 83 - certainly no earlier than 81).

He wouldn't mis-spell like Crossbow, and I rather suspect that his attitudes would be more mainstream.

As a Harrier mate the chance of him praising the Jag would also be remote.....

I think we're taking Crossbow's claims too literally - 45 years and at Liverpool Uni in 76 (whether that was the start point or graduation) doesn't work. That's 16 years old....

Now I know Liverpool was a second rate red brick hole then, but suspect they demanded more than o-levels to get in....

[airborne_artist]

Crossbow said he attended the institution called John Moores, which was then (in about 78/79) a poly. Would Betty have paid for him to go there? ISTR that at the time in-service degrees meant attending a university, not a poly awarding CNAA degrees.

[foldingwings]

Jacko,

OK! I hear you but a few more snippets from RAF list: Commissioned 1978 (at 18 and 4 days). If he subsequently/immediately went to Uni as per the BEagle scheme he would have graduated from a 3-year course in 1981 then back to Cranners for IOT and, hey presto, he graduates in 1982 as you suggest.

Liverpool John Moores; praise of the Jag; suggestion that he is an engineer "getting ac serviceable" (or words to that effect) etc etc - all a smokescreen as the hounds have been closing in for days.

I await BEagle's news on what schemes were on offer in the 70s!

[WebPilot]

I'm sure that the troll known as Crossbow must be laughing at the furore he has created, but I have to say it is quite fascinating to watch the developments!

From my own reading of the Crossbow Tapes, he doesn't come across as an FJ pilot - his is inaccurate in his language and grammar, he tries to leave inferences rather than stating facts. And when you directly challenge him on a substantive point, he dives off at a tangent. Classic internet troll behaviour.

On the poly subject, I know a former GR1 pilot who attended a poly in the late 70s on an RAF bursery.

[Jackonicko]

All APOs were commissioned on getting their Cadetships, and Mark Bowman obviously got his in 78, graduating in 81 from his Aero Eng degree (if memory serves) at Imperial. Then IOT as normal.

Unless he'd joined the RAF as a Halton Apprentice at 16, a join date of 1976 is impossible, and I'd suggest that it would be entirely impossible for a 'Brat' to gain sufficient qualifications to win a place at Imperial AND get a cadetship in just two years, and had he been an ex-Brat, I suspect that fact would have been widely known.

But the compelling thing for me is that Crossbow does not come across as being a punchy, immensely likeable and sociable, academic high flier. Mark Bowman is/was - though as a VR who was younger than him, we didn't have a lot in common, or much contact.

[Flap62]

Never mind the dates. The evidence that it isn't Mr Bowman is plain to see. Some of Xbows answers have been one paragraph long. If you think Bowparts could answer any question without waffling on for 2-3 pages, you obviously don't know him!!

[Green Meat]

Interestingly Crossbow PM'd me, and all has gone quiet once I revealed a rather minor stint with Warton Division BWoS during the EAP era (NOTHING to do with flying the damn thing I should add in case anyone accuses me of Crossbowing - like Ponting, but not being transparent enough in this case :ok: )

Could this be because I know too much? There's a first for everything...

I'm sure that the troll known as Crossbow must be laughing at the furore he has created...

Maybe so, but it's the internet version of 'Clues Who?'!

Edited to add a plea for 'to crossbow' to become a recognised verb !

[16 blades]

Never mind, foldingwings, it was a valiant effort nonetheless!

This fascinates me - I imagine there is a drive among many here now to 'out' this moron. I will watch with interest! (and contribute, if I can).

I second the adoption of the verb 'To Crossbow', at least here on PPRuNe.

16B

[jindabyne]

foldingwings

I'm still siding with you - your research and conclusion is sound - notwithstanding some variance in dates (easily countered), and the 'he was a good bloke' comments.

That said, I don't know the bloke and have no wish to inadvertantly condemn. There's an easy answer if he feels like joining in the fun - let's hear it.

But what of crossbow? - seems to have withdrawn from the register?

[Gainesy]

Could have joined as a boy app back then; there was also then a scheme where the top few app grads were offered flying training.

[BEagle]

foldingwings, I joined RAFC Cranwell on 99 Entry in 1968, intending to do the normal 2.5 year Flt Cdt course. However, 'They' decided that the RAF needed more University educated officers, so as many of us as wished to were immediately encouraged to apply for University.

A few guys went straight away, but most of us did 12 months of marching, saluting, polishing, log-carrying and academics/war studies/PT etc. Then, after a couple of weeks leave post King Rock '69, we did a 'pre-University' week looking after fellow recruits who were going straight from school to University (the Green Shielders), so started at University in 1969 as an APO. It was supposed to be a 3 year course, but UAS flying and other things made that 4, then back to RAFC on 14 GE, graduating with wings in Summer '74 as a Fg Off.

[nick0021]

Fella's,

I have been following your posts with great interest, and think i might have found something which may have been overlooked.

In reply to a post submitted by Brakedwell which read as follows:

Like being at Liverpool University before joining the RAF in 1976? That would make crossbow at least 51 years old. He implies that he is flying Typhoons out of Warton and would go back to Jaguars if the third tranche is canned. As I said before, both Pinnoccio and Walter Mitty spring to mind!

Crossbow said....

Im not as old as that but I am over 45

This might i fear throw a small spanner in the works as folding wings (our resident Sherlock Homes!) stated .....

crossbow has admitted to being 45 now, so 1960 is bang on!!

However, if we look at what Corssbow acctually said, his age could be anything between 45 and 51, thus meaning all of the dates stated could be out a little??

Might be wrong, but hope it's of help!:ok: :ok:

regards.

Nick

[PPRuNeUser0172]

His silence/disappearance speaks volumes. The guy is a complete @rse. Even though this thread gives him a lot of attention, which he will clearly love, it still serves to highlight what a pathetic little turd this individual is inferring he is a TP at Warton.

The only jet he will have ever flown is a virtual one, in his virtual little world, virtually.....;)

[Blobby]

I know him well and he is not at work at the moment....so it's not him!

[L Peacock]

Dirty Sanchez,

I think you inferred Crossbow is a TP. He implied it.

[foldingwings]

Blobby,

Surely your assertion that:

I know him well and he is not at work at the moment....so it's not him!

confirms the suspicion not denies it!

Anyone who is a TP at Warton and at work should surely be up in the luft or pouring over trial reports thereby not having the time to surf around every forum on PPRuNe making inane, fatuous and unsubstantiated comments.

Then, the corollary is that a TP at home with time on his hands................

[Green Meat]

Well, he's implied many things.

BWOS - well if the RAF is BWOS then thats me. Nope Im a serving member of HM's finest. Im currently flying my A--e off at a small and quiet airfield in Lancashire.

I very rarely do this if someone PMs me, but here is the substance of his riposte to the Woodvale topic in Tony B Liar thread. I'm certain enough that he is not who he hints to be to do this:

I think my profile gives too much away but as you can see it says where Iam based and the clue to SWING ROLE should also give the aircraft type away as well.

Try this for size then. Lives near Warton, flies with the VGS at Samlesbury. Swing Role? Would that be engine on or off?


Come on Crossbow, where have you been since 8 Feb?

[Roghead]

Crossbow is not MB, that is unless Bowparts is really bored and is winding us all up! Uckers rules means he's winning by a Harrier mile at present but as all real mudmovers know a Harrier mile is rather elastic and so the game continues.
MB is far too erudite to pen the utter dribble put out by Xbow, but to be able to maintain said dribble over all the posts suggests that the author is indeed a pillock or someone with a clear , clever and analytical mind and the ability to maintain a consistant level of banality which he doesn't really believe.
Roghead Warton Flt Ops 1987-2001.

[jindabyne]

roghead

Greetings!

Along with most others (Jacko aside), your post is an assertion without supportive 'fact'- whereas foldingwings' assertion is supported by some form of logic. It seems that neither crossbow or MB are willing to put the thing to rest - or is that the proof of the pudding?

All a bit tedious now -----------

[Splash Coxswain]

I'm with jindabyne (whatever one of those is) and anyway, whoever crossbow is he has departed from the register and unlikely to acknowledge any of foldingwings or other's assertions here.

Until he pops up as A.N. Other and starts all over again.

Let it rest!

[L Peacock]

I suspect MB is otherwise occupied acoss the pond at present. Yes I know the internet works in the land of the septics but I am sure he has more pressing matters to attend to.

[Blobby]

To answer my "assertion"...I know for fact that he was airborne at the time of one of CBs posts...so inless there are 2 people at it.....

[Roghead]

Hi jindabyne, whilst I was undoubtedly assertive, I thought my spin on it was quite neat (or logical), if not exactly supportive fact.
"Let it rest"?.. well the sensible approach would be to do so, but I've survived too long to be sensible any more. Let's nail him.
Blobby have we flown together?

[foldingwings]

Blobby,

Welcome to PPRuNe I trust you found registration easy on the 10th of February and are content with the service that is provided!

On the day of your registration you state:

I know him well and he is not at work at the moment....so it's not him!

And subsequently in response to my post:

To answer my "assertion"...I know for fact that he was airborne at the time of one of CBs posts...so inless there are 2 people at it.....

Which makes me feel obliged to ask the question of everyone else out there in PPRuNe land:

Anybody know if Bowpartz (as deemed by Blobby) is a fat bar steward?

Come on crossbow, you need to try harder than that to get back in and disguise yourself! I thought TPs were supposed to be bright!

Sorry, I know Splash C said let it rest but, I ask you...........

foldingwings

[L Peacock]

Foldingwings

There are several hundred people in Lancashire can corroborate Blobby's assertions, short of posting flight times and remote geographical locations. You're barking up the wrong tree.

[foldingwings]

Or have his mates at Warton been co-opted to provide a smokescreen!

[Blobby]

Yep, whatever...bored with this one. If you want to think that way...OK!

[Roghead]

Hi Blobby,I Know you're new here, but most contributors read the posts and respond accordingly. As you didn't and haven't I guess you're not the man I knew.
The thread title, before we all forget, is "Petition for the abolition of Crossbows" and whilst he seems to have gone away the suggestion that he may have re-emerged under yet another name or indeed not be as thick as he comes across on these pages is a fascinating diversion from the daily bad news. If you are easily bored, so be it, but don't be too surprised if your posts are examined in crossbow terms. No facility for PM's is unusual. :suspect:

[Wigan Warrior]

Just for your peace of mind Roger, I can confirm the Crossbow and MNB are not 1 person.
Since you left, Roger, the ‘Warton Flightpath’ service has developed (screaming and kicking) into the 1980s.
Checking Flightpath I can confirm the MNB was airborne on at least 3 occasions when xbow posted.
I have chuckled reading all this banter and must confess to be puzzled as to the identity of Crossbow, although after a bit of surface scratching I’m pretty sure he’s on a wind-up. Well-done Crossbow, you’ve made me smile… and cringe!

[Roghead]

Thanks for that WW-sorry for replying late but I've been out trying to get a life, and the grandchildren are great teachers. So Bowparts and Crossbow are not one-good to hear. However there's someone out there who's not doing Warton any favours and BWoS needs all the help it can get particularly from its prime customers. This thread does seem to have removed Crossbow's balls (or should that be shaft?)
Glad to hear that Flitepath has matured.
:ok: