Rlce

[bookworm]

The Bristol thread has got me wondering.

Request Level Change Enroute used to have a significance in the event of comms failure.

Under the procedures introduced in late 2002, it no longer has a significance. If you clear me to a level that is not my flight planned cruising level and a comms failure occurs, I'm going to wait 7 minutes and climb to my flight planned level anyway. If a comms failure hasn't occurred, of course I'm going to be requesting any level change I need from the controlling agency.

The same would seem to be true of "climb when instructed by radar". If I'm instructed to climb by radar, of course I will. If I haven't had the instruction and a comms failure occurs, I'm going to wait 7 minutes and climb to my flight planned level anyway.

In essence, there appear to be only two levels of significance:

a) my flight-planned level
b) any level included in a current instruction, which has a "shelf-life" of 7 minutes if a comms failure occurs.

So why are the other phrases still in the book?

[goddammit]

I would be more interested to learn why they are still being used. :O

[5milesbaby]

You will find that within the next 3 months these phrases will either have been amended or totally withdrawn. When the new procedures came into force (the 7 mins etc), these ones were made redundant and now the phrases should not be issued. However, an error or two has been made and the books all need re-writing to show such affect. If you refer to the UK AIP, you will notice no reference to either phrase is now made, and their definitions have been withdrawn. The matter has been raised and ATC Ops are working on its resolution.

Basically, wait and you will find the answers you are looking for.... :ok:

[ILS 119.5]

I remember asking my sector chief at LATCC about RLCE & CUR, he did not have a clue and this was back in the 80's. I also queried how many r/f's he had had during his long career, only one. The a/c did not comply with any of the aforementioned clearances and continuued to Argentina. I am aware that these procedures should be in place, but they are put in place for the past and not for the future.

[Giles Wembley-Hogg]

I seem to remember mentioning that RLCE and "climb when instructed by radar" seem to be redundant on a thread entitled something like "A question for Scottish Controllers". It was with relation to Aberdeen operations. I can't remember if anyone came up with any gems of knowlege then or not.

RLCE never would have worked for me in the UK during a radio failure anyway. The requirement used to be to leave controlled airspace to climb to the flight planned level. Since all airspace above FL245 is Class B (hence controlled) in the UK, the procedure would have been impossible for most of the flights I have conducted where I have been issued with such a clearance.

I will still miss the phrases when they go though. All very Brittish, like drinking tea, Wimbledon, Charlotte Green reading the shipping forecast... ah...

G W-H

[Kit d'Rection KG]

A great shame, we mourn the passing of more old friends...

By the way, Giles, aren't you missing something?

[tug3]

RLCE still used @ Shanwick Oceanic and not aware of any plan to cease its use:

It's used by Planning Controllers to indicate to a crew that while their requested FL may not be available at the point they enter the OCA, they may request a higher FL at the stated point, (e.g. RLCE 55N020W), where they might get a bit closer to that FL they initially requested.

As far as RTFail is concerned, you either continue in accordance with your Oceanic clearance or enter the OCA at the first FL/Speed contained in your FPL, maintaining these until exiting the OCA into the next 'Domestic' FIR.

Rgds
T3

(etided for seplinng)

[Giles Wembley-Hogg]

Kit d'Rection KG

Do you mean the other "m"? I left it out to disguise my identity. After all, these forums are anonymous!

G W-H

[Kit d'Rection KG]

Exactly that, Giles,

Hope you enjoyed your trip to Japan (and it's so good of you t send your audio diaries in to the Beeb so regularly).

Must dash - got to sort out my tackle for the all-Hampshire chalk stream lightweight dry fly knockout championships this weekend (Dad used to do awfully well - got to keep the family name up)!