Phraseology question - thx

[jlms]

Hi.

I have been looking through what I believe is the official UK phraseology manual (CAP 413 - Radiotelephony Manual) searching for how UK controllers issue a delay for which they cannot provide an estimated time, but can't seem to find any references to this. Would this be something like "expect indefinite delay"?

Thank you!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Delay not determined...?

[Charlie Fox]

Pilots are given an EAT of ‘Delay not determined’ when the destination runways
cannot be used for landing and it is not possible to accurately predict when they will
become available. In some circumstances an EAT of ‘Delay not determined’ will also
be given when a preceding flight has elected to remain over the holding facility
pending an improvement in weather conditions at the destination. If ‘Delay not
determined’ has been given, pilots should not attempt to land at the destination
aerodrome, but instead divert to the alternate destination specified in the current
flight plan or another suitable airfield.

[2 sheds]

Charlie Foxtrot

In the case of your latter remarks, you mean in the case of RTF failure?

[ILS 119.5]

Is this a departure or arrival delay? Correctly said in previous posts "delay not determined" for arrivals. There is no correct phraseology for departures, only to say that "slot time is". Also the "delay not determined" or "no delay expected" is only issued in case of radio failure. Controllers are advised to use correct phraseology as much as they can, however if there is not such a phrase in the r/t manual or MATS PT1 they can use whatever phrase they want. It is very similar to the MATS PT1 ruling which states that any controller, in any circumstances can depart from the guidance laid down in this manual.

[jlms]

Thank you very much for your answers. I didn't state it earlier on but I was specially thinking about a departure delay.

Thanks again.

[yaffs]

if no slot time is issued then there is no delay to departure,
however you can have no slot time, but there may be start delays for various reasons , for example: airfield congestion, sector restrictions on certain routes, snow clearance to name a few
you'll probably hear " start up delays due (reason)"
hope this helps your query

yaffs

[30W]

I often seem to think it's better to have a CTOT!!

Odd I know, but out of say KK, there is much pressure on to get the aircraft airborne who have CTOT's to comply with. If I'm at the hold with no restriction I often get passed by many running tight for their slot, and my departure seems low priority.

Not knocking the system, but it's how it seems to work in practice!

No delay means, standby to be delayed....:ugh:

30W