Avg. PAX Weights

[JeePilot]

Did a quick search and didn't turn up anything, but don't shoot me if this has been done before. Considering the recent increase of avg pax weights here in Canada I'm curious as to what they are in other parts of the world. Who has the fattest/skinniest PAX???

Summer weights, no carry on.
M - 200lbs (90.7kg)
F - 165lbs (74.8kg)

[OverRun]

MBS565 Murdoch University - Airline Economics lectures:

Nominal weight in Australia for passengers and baggage = 77+20 = 97 kgs.

Nominal weight in USA:
FAA (1995) = 75.5+9+11=95.5 kgs
for passengers + carry-on + baggage

Revised
FAA (2003) = 93+9+14 = 116 kgs
for passengers + carry-on + baggage

[notac]

In the Uk body+carry on;

Male = 88kg,

Female = 70 kg,

Child = 35kg,

unless it is a charter flight then if by some amazing weight watchers programme they suddenly weigh less;

male 83kg, Female 69kg, child 35kg.

[Localiser Green]

How about the low-cost airlines in the UK? Do they use the charter weights too?

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I work for Jet2, we use the standard adult weights, not the charter weights as we are a scheduled carrier, not a holiday charter flight.

[ft]

FAA AC120-27D suggests 190/195 lbs summer/winter, with a carry-on policy. Differentiated are 200/205 for males and 179/184 for females.

Canada suggests 200/206 for males and 165/171 for females, AC No. 0235.

Under JAR, it is 185 lbs.

OZ 192/159 males/females. NZ just upped their standard weight from 170 to 190 lbs.

Of course, this all has variations. Charter/non-charter, number of seats in the aircraft etc... and operators are free to make their own surveys.

As for charters, there's typically more females and children/youngsters and less books, laptops etc in the cabin. No diet required, apart from the months of noodles endured by the backpackers prior to buying the tickets! ;)

[Localiser Green]

I work for Jet2, we use the standard adult weights, not the charter weights as we are a scheduled carrier, not a holiday charter flight.

Fair enough, seems funny that's all, that say an easyJet 737 or A319 can be flying LGW-AGP at the same time as say a Britannia 757 does, but the easyJet has heavier (assumed) passengers.

[You splitter]

LG,

The reason for this is that these weights do not take into account checked luggage. It does take into account carry on luggage.

On a holiday charter flight people will take large suitcases which will of course be taken into account on the loadsheet as a seperate weight. They normally only carry-on small(ish), light, handluggage designed for essential items whilst travelling.

The scheduled passenger however traditionally would be more business travellers who may have no checked luggage but would carry on heavier travel bags with laptops, books, overnight kit etc. Therefore they are the 'heavier' passenger.

Interestingly enough it would be interesting to see how the scheduled low cost model has affected this over the last 10 years.

A carrier can apply to the authority to use a differant standard mass value for each passenger but they would have to undertake a detailed weight survey and submit statistical analysis for it to be considered. We have one for a particular operation we undertake where pax are not allowed any handluggage. Therefore we can use 5kg less per passenger as they have no handluggage.

It all gets very complicated!!!

Cheers
YS

[ft]

Typically, the actual weights are increasing. They're then updated (read: upped) with significant intervals. This means that most operators are reluctant to perform their own surveys. They're likely to end up having to use heavier std weights than their competitors.

The FAA allowance for no carry-on ops is 6 lbs off the pax weight, while plane-side loaded bags are to be counted at 20 lbs or so. Interesting, innit?

Cheers,
Fred

[Maude Charlee]

Weights for Easyjet are:

M=93kg, F=75kg, C=30kg

All recently increased by 5kg to reflect new hand baggage allowances.

Ryanair use tables for the weights of Adult and Child passengers, and I've never actually bothered to calculate if this works out as a standard weight per person regardless of the numbers or not.

MyTravel use a standard adult weight of 89kg, but this can be changed if the flight is predominantly Male or Female. Can't remember the alternative weights off the top of my head though.

:8

[Localiser Green]

Weights for Easyjet are:

M=93kg, F=75kg, C=30kg

If I understand correctly, I assume this is in addition to actual checked baggage weight (not assumed)?

[The Greaser]

No, average baggage weights are used - 13kg for International flights, 11kg for domestics.

[Localiser Green]

No, average baggage weights are used - 13kg for International flights, 11kg for domestics.

Thanks for that, one more question - is that per passenger just for adults (male + female), or do children also get an assumed baggage?

[The Greaser]

No, the total number of bags checked in is counted, then factored by the appropriate figure. ie. 123 total bags checked in on international flight = 1599kg. Hand baggage weights are included in the respective adult/child weight.

[Maude Charlee]

Airlines have the option of using actual or standard weights for baggage. On larger aircraft, for the sake of convenience, standard weights are normally what is used. For more performance limited aircraft, it may well be more beneficial to use actual weights.

Going back to easyjet as an example again, if the aircraft is operating a flight to a ski destination for example, and there is a substantial amount of ski/sporting equipment being carried, then the actual weights of this equipment may be used on the aircraft loadsheet as it is loaded into a seperate hold to the regular baggage (for which standard weights will still be used).

Not really any definitive, one size fits all, answer I'm afraid.

[ft]

Another (and, possibly, the main) reason for actual weights being more beneficial in smaller aircraft is that the standard weights have to be larger for smaller a/c. This is since one non-standard passenger will have a larger impact on the average weight of the actual passengers boarded. A larger sample of people will statistically have a much larger probability of being close to the actual mean of the entire population. With few pax, you have to use larger average weights to be safe from severe overweight conditions.

I recall the New Zealand CAA being a bit above par in describing the theory behind it all. Check out AC119-4, I think that's the one.

Cheers,
Fred

[Max Angle]

For more performance limited aircraft, it may well be more beneficial to use actual weights.In my experience operating holiday charters the actual weight of the bags, which some agents supply, is almost always higher than the standard weight would work out at.

[OA32]

SATA use charter pax weights of 76K for adults and 35 for children, the baggage weights used are real.

[HonestoGod]

Now I am not a mathematician nor a statatician either, but if I look at the US figures (at the start of the thread), then the significance for say the year 2010 is truly remarkable. I dread to even think beyond that.

[mutt]

65kgs for males, 55 kgs for females!

Only applies on one Hajj route from Indonesia.

Mutt.

[john_tullamarine]

Further to Fred's post, above, Australia's John K raised a very detailed report on this subject some years ago. The report makes for very interesting reading and eventually was embodied in current operational requirements.

[You splitter]

Don't forget that JAR-OPS places a requirement on the check-in, loading, operations and cabin staff to report any flight where they believe the weight of the passengers, including hand-luggage is significantly heavier than the standard weights.

So I guess if you realise 150 members of the "McDonalds Fan Club" board the aircraft for their annual away day feast in Frankfurt, one should wonder if the standard weights should be scrapped and actual weights used instead!! :ok:

[ft]

Splitter,
not only JAR-OPS. You'll find writing to that effect in most regulations. It is also interesting to note that the staff is typically required to estimate the truthfullness of the weights volunteered by pax and add up to a reasonably true figure where required.

"Yeah, I'll lie about my weight even if it is possibly detrimental the safety of the flight..." :rolleyes:

[Old Smokey]

ft,

FACT - In my previous airline when it was necessary to use passenger "self declared" weights, it was company policy to accept male passengers weights as factual, and add 10% to a female passenger's self-declared weight.

mutt,

What standard passenger weight do you use for Hajj flights out of Hat Yai? Seen some pretty interesting all-engines screen heights there.

Regards,

Old Smokey

[mutt]

Hat Yai? Are we operating there?? Anyway, we use normal weights for all destinations apart from Surabaya!

Mutt.

[You splitter]

FACT - In my previous airline when it was necessary to use passenger "self declared" weights, it was company policy to accept male passengers weights as factual, and add 10% to a female passenger's self-declared weight.

:} Thats made me chuckle....still I can see the sense in it!

[Flap Sup]

Maude C,

you sure that Ezy child isn't 35?

Regular JAA weights are Adult 84, or split male/female 88/70, unless otherwise approved by local CAA for scheduled flights. Charter adults 76. Children on charter/scheduled are 35. Infants 0(!). Weights only subject for flights on ac with more than 19 seats.
Weights include handbags (5kg), umbrella or camera, overclothes and sufficient reading materials for the flight as far as i remember. Bear in mind that these rulse were written in the roaring thirties.....
JAA bag weights: Domestic 11kg, international 13kg, transcontinental 15kg, unless otherwise approved by local CAA.
/fs

[Maude Charlee]

You may be right. It's very unusual for us to have to LMC any children on or off, so the weight isn't one that has stuck. Perhaps I need to check. :O Adult weights are definitely correct though.

[Piltdown Man]

M=88, F=70, C=35, I=0. Bags 14.5kgs (or 15kgs if the agent's loading system can't handle decimals) OR actual weight. Flight Deck 85 Kgs, Cabin Crew 75 Kgs. The system requires that you measure with a micrometer, mark out with chalk and chop with an axe.