Traffic through COA

[biffo170]

For those working on Clacton sector 14.

When sending aircraft parallel that are subject to the FLAS to be level 280, 270 or 260 at KEGIT, which would you prefer on the north side, of say a SS and a GW or any other examples you care to mention.

Thanks,

B170

[Asda]

Hi Biffo, hope this helps. From North to South

EGSS/SC/GW any way round
EGLC/KB
EGLL/WU
EGHI/HH
EGKK

This does not indicate a preference for traffic presented five abreast. ;)

[biffo170]

Thanks Asda, 5 abreast doesn't sound nice from our side either!

[MancBoy]

Biffo, there are a couple of things that Maastricht could do through Coa which would help things better.

1. Transferring traffic earlier. If we don't get traffic until it's abeam or even past Kegit it makes it very difficult to stream with traffic coming through Gorlo, often requiring turns of 30-40 degrees. We look to get rid of traffic by the Fir boundary, not abeam Logan.

2. Not positioning traffic for the same destination directly on top of each other. Similar to pint 1, 30-40 degree heading changes needed in order to split traffic up as soon as possible.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Biffo, there are a couple of things that Maastricht could do through Coa which would help things better.

And in the spirit of European harmony, what could UK agencies do better for the guys in Maastricht ??

(That's your cue Traffic Traffic :ok: )

[biffo170]

Well for the guys working in the Dover sectors, 2 and 16.

Do you have any further routing information after KOK? The reason is that we have to put all the aircraft you send us on appropriate sides for their later routing.

Traffic who’s later routing is via BOMBI needs to be on the north of everything. Traffic destination EDDF, EDDL, EDDK, ELLX, in the middle, anyway around. Finally traffic with routing via DIK, KRH or TGO needs on the south side. (the last is the vast majority of RYR traffic)

If you are vectoring the departures against EBBR arrivals just give us a call if a higher level will help you. It helps us as well because as soon as they are at different levels we can split them up and step climb the problem aircraft until we have them all split on the correct sides.

I will try to help with splitting traffic as requested and transferring early. (BTW, how far can you see on radar? We can see 20 miles west of DVR and about as far as SUMUM / RAPIX)

[Lon More]

Pprune Radar TTs very busy these days; he's loaded down with extra work in an effort to keep him quiet. However I'm sure he would like to remind you that Copenhagen is North of Frankfurt, so could we please have them that way round.

[B]Biffo[B]inform the pilot to tell us he is released for climb/turns. That way we can continue the climb on contact Far be it from me to suggest that all pilots are liars but you don't want to open that can of worms. You could end up having a very long boring talk with Klaas and John Doyle

Lon More
Here before Pontius was a Pilot or Mortus a Rigger

[5milesbaby]

biffo170, unfortunately we don't know what happens after KOK on the Dover and Upper sectors, and ironically all I was told during training is that if possible, get the German stuff on the north!!!! Beyond that, I was told to put the one slightly ahead to the south so it can take the right turn first abeam KOK so as not to sail straight on waiting for the other to get there. So much for what we know! During the busier times however you at Maastrict get the traffic the way we get them ourselves from TC, and asking them to put them the right way round will be answered with great hilarity. As for the RFC/RFD I generally check to see if there is any unknown traffic to yourselves crossing, and if not will chuck that a/c to you so if you keep it going "on your own licence" it should not cause a problem, unless they are climbing like lifts (B767/A300's to Frankfurt come to mind) where I'll try to get a higher level off you.

For info our strips generally give us UL607 as the routing although a deeper look into the electronics can pull up a few more routes after that. What air routes are we looking for to get them the right way round for you?

[biffo170]

Point taken L.M.

Yes putting the fastest one on the south side is in general better for us too so we can keep the northern one within airway limits so it doesn’t interfere with the London inbounds.

As for the routings the UL607 goes all the way through the Brussels UIR and BOMBI, KRH/TGO are actually well after our airspace and in to German airspace. With full military activity they will stay on the same route parallel until the point SPI, at which they will be turned in their said directions.

If you find one with routing via UA24, then that one will be turned south, earliest. Aircraft with routing UM149 is traffic routing to BOMBI, so they would be on the north. Easiest thing I guess is just give them over on headings in good time, and try to give us the fastest climbing first, just common sense, that’s it.

Thanks for your views.

Biffo.