Bumpy Jumpers

[iccarus]

Ladies, Gentleman.... a quick question!
Am i the only person in this modern caring sharing air force who believes that we now operate what is effectively a reverse discrimination policy.
Why oh why do I frequently see, shall we say-- bumpy jumpers( and I don't mean fat herc mates who can't pass their annual fitness test), being afforded far more opportunities, being given far more benefit of doubt, and generally getting far more priority in most aspects of service training/life, than their flat jumpered colleagues??
:yuk:
I'd be most interested to see whether this is just the view of an old knacker like myself, or whether anybody else has similiar thoughts????

[truckiebloke]

iccarus

couldnt agree more mate. i've had enough of the positive discrimination that goes on. No longer does your ability really matter... good guys are getting over looked due to the numbers game of having girls in certain positions.....

[Solid Rust Twotter]

I believe it's referred to as Affirmative Action and it's found in all walks of life in the new fluffy huggy luvvie world in which we live. It's not a bad thing..... apparently.

[pr00ne]

Solid Rust Twotter,

It is certainly NOT found in all walks of life!

In the fields in which I operate the only thing that can get you anywhere is ability, promotion is on merit and who or what you are counts for nothing, in theory.
If anything the absolute opposite of what you are dripping on about exists, women still face a glass ceiling in most professions and by far the vast majority of those with clout and power are white, male, hetrosexual, middle class or above, protestant and married with 2.1 kids.

I suggest your problem stems from a chronic lack of leadership in the very highest echelons.

[StopStart]

Can't say I've noticed to be honest.

Maybe I'm not paying enough attention but I don't see any of the women I work with getting any special treatment when it comes to jobs and promotions etc. They all seem to do their bit like everyone else and just get on with it.

Non issue IMHO :rolleyes:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Pr00ne

Women are but a small part of the AA equation. As you so rightly put it, lack of adequate leadership is the problem and a feel good alternative is introduced as a sop to their critics. I believe all promotion should be on merit but if AA hasn't yet reached all walks of life, it soon will. Merit, hard work and ability will be redundant in the face of the dribbling luvvie refusal to accept it as a basis for promotion or even when appointing someone to do the job.

What price a one legged pygmy lesbian single mother more employable than your average male?

[hyd3failure]

It seems a bit of a shame to hear that the WRAF are being afforded far more opportunities, being given far more benefit of doubt, and generally getting far more priority in most aspects of service training/life, than their flat jumpered colleagues

The females in the RN are treated equally and are given the same opportunities, training, pay and respect as every one else. It makes me wonder if that recent thread/news reference abuse in the RAF had any substance.

[InTgreen]

Views received and understood, but how about this for a change of tack.....

Women in the armed forces are a small percentage of the total man power ('scuse the pun) available. As such the women generally clump together and have more 'girle only' social do's than the blokes. This, due to the more isolated nature of their existance, seems to permiate the rank structure (esp in the Air force, I believe) more than any of the social clubs that the guys have. This could lead to the concern that is voiced by the original poster. I'm saying it may appear to happen, but that is not what is ACTUALLY happening!

Discuss?

[The Green Scopie]

Does this mean it's OK to have an Anne Summers evening in the Mess but not one for the 'Gentlemen'?;)

[Tourist]

Hyd3, what is wrong with you?

You write like a computer generated RN Boll@cks disseminator programmed with phrases from various out of date BRs by some insane GL T@sser!

The Navy I am in bears no relation the one you keep talking about, THANK GOD!

Just my opinion........

[fatlad]

Females in the RN being treated equally???

hmmm.. didn't seem that way when I did my first part of the aircrew survival training in the New Forest . First day on course they stated if you couldn't pass the 1.5 mile run they wouldn't let you continue on course. One of our girls failed by over a minute, if i remember correctly, and was allowed to continue.

Later on during the week the stretcher run comes around, she gives up after around 2km and does the rest in the back of a Land Rover, she was still allowed to continue the course.

Onto the sea survival drills the next week, she couldn't inflate her single man life raft and claimed that she was being pulled under from the weight of it (despite being in a goon suit full of air and wearing a life jacket), a member of the staff had to help her with inflate it and get into it.

For the course critique at the end they recieved 24 compliants from our group of 25 asking why this one person was allowed to continue with the course having failed on some of the core tasks.

We were told that the decision was out of their hands and they were told to pass this person.

Totally looked to us like a case of positive discrimination.

Having said all this the other girls on our course were absolute stars and had got through it all with no problems. It just seemed they were intent on passing this one girl.

[Fire 'n' Forget]

Tourist,

At last someone types what i have been thinking about Hyd3 since his first post on all threads........ He's an RN PR computer :ok:

[iccarus]

Now, just to clarify.....
Many of ythe young lASSEs i have worked with are exceptionally tolerant, hard working and able......However, even they sometimes admit that, had they been graced with meat and two vedge, then things might be rather different....
What am i talking about?..... well, extra flying training hours, more chance of having rules bent(particularly fitness training), photo/TV opportunities(although in fairness I might crack the lens), :}
For many of the chicks who know me in a proffessional and social arena--I salute and applaud your efforts in a male dominated environment.
Those of you however, who give the rest of the chicks a bad name(and you know who you are), please stop playing the system for all its worth.
Does no-one else have any other examples?

[ScapegoatisaSolution]

When a colleague of mine found out she was promoted (she was from a 'visible ethnic minority' - I believe that is the term now) said for all to hear 'I'm glad I'm not a white bloke'. Mind you, she still accepted the offer of promotion!

[BEagle]

V E M or W O G

What's the difference? Both are denigrating TLAs applied to minority groups, in my view. The fact that one was invented by the political correctos and the other wasn't is nihil ad rem....

One of the few things I ever heard that tw@t known as 'Thrombo' say which made some sense was that discrimination only exists when someone makes an issue of it....

[SASless]

Excuse me! WRAF....is that not in itself a sexist concept?

Why not drop all the prehistoric baggage and simply call it the RAF and include everyone of the off blue uniformed crowd as one big happy family?

[FJJP]

Already been done - some years ago. The branch 'WRAF' ceased to exist about 10 years ago [open to correction in the timescale]. Everybody belongs to the RAF despite the lumpy bits.

Tights and handbags can be issued to all RAF personnel, as opposed to just the WRAF in the good old days...

[hyd3failure]

I was trying not to be rude. I don't think it would be kind to call the ladies "Crabs" would it?

[Ray Dahvectac]

I don't think it would be kind to call the ladies "Crabs" would it?

Surely it would be discriminatory NOT to do so?

[TurbineTooHot]

Ah ha,

Got you Hyd3.

How do you expect equallity with comments like

I don't think it would be kind to call the ladies "Crabs" would it?

Treat everyone fairly, equally, politely and according to the establised rank structure and everyone gets on fine.

Hold doors to everyone as the "gentlemanly" thing rather than for a lady.

I'd love to be old fashioned about things, but in order to be in the 21st century armed forces, one must see only cap badge and rank braid, not lumps or skin colour.

Or is that elitist. F##k it, lets abolish rank as well. Then everone's the same!

[Vage Rot]

You don't have to go far to see that discrimination does take place, overtly and sponsored by the system. Just look at the fitness test. a 39 yr old bloke has to do around 10 press ups, 26 sit ups and run to level 8/7 at the beep test. (approx figures cos I'm not at work). a younger female has to do much much less.

Now, I appreciate that males and females are different :D , however, the fitness test is not a strength or stamina test it is a fitness test. Surely we all need to reach the SAME standard. If I should ever fail, I will argue that I would have passed if I were a woman and, as such, I have been discriminated against.

Having flown in this mob for 20 years, I saw the introduction of female aircrew mid way through my career. At first, most were a poor standard, despite much flex in flying training. Gradually the standard has improved until now, most are on an equal footing. I feel the problem was never ability but that we (the RAF) selected the wrong character types to fill the female numbers gap quickly. The ones that struggled were the more 'girly' ones; the ones that did well were the more bubbly and aggressive ones that fitted in more with the ethos of the time. The same was true with the blokes; shy ones didn't do too well, louder ones integrated and starred. I'm not saying it was right, just that you cant run a Force with a gung-ho ethos for years and then expect it to change overnight because you introduce a few ladies.

I've seen us go from a fighting force to a lovey-dovey tree hugging organisation with customers, performance indicators and other commercial bollocks. It is going too far ladies and gents. I used to enjoy everyb aspect of my job. Now I'm only 100% happy when I hear the wheels thud into the bay on departure and I'm my own boss for the next few hours.

[Green Meat]

Vage Rot,

Well, there are times that the boot is on the other foot. During the IOT fitness tests, I was ordered to halt at 7/6 as I was over twenty five whilst I watched all the others (yes, bumpy jumpers included) still running.

:p

[Vage Rot]

Grean Meat - 7/6 - you must be REALLY, REALLY old!!!:p :D

[glum]

Personally, I'd prefer it if we stopped trying to pretend we're all the same, and celebrated the fact we're different.

Sure we're here as a fighting force, but why can't women be women and accepted as such? Why do we have to pretend they're men?

[Green Meat]

Thank you Vage, I was in fact 25 and one month at the time! I hadn't even broken sweat and asked to run with the others only to be told in no uncertain terms that I mustn't. Must have been scared I'd have a heart attack...:ok:

[hyd3failure]

Tights and handbags can be issued to all RAF personnel, as opposed to just the WRAF in the good old days


reminded me of the occasion when the (W)RNS were issued with white knickers to wear under their tropical white skirts.... (so as to avoid VPL) but the sailors had to purchase thier own underwear and so what did jack to to retaliate......all nipped ashore and bought bright red knicks.....Fantastic....