FO Salary at EK

[Pin Head]

Thinking of applying. The starting salary is 17,010. Are there any other allowances.

Also what is it like. Good fun. Best fleet/Worst fleet. Are they recruiting at the minute (me 4300TT 2000hrs jet and 1000hrs Dash 8). Time to get invited to Dubai for selection if I meet the minima?

Any other help welcolmed?

Pin

[Shake]

Allowances down route are just enough to cover costs down route. All discounts offered by hotels taken out of allowances before you get them. Forget about saving any unless you like Pot Noodles and crap TV.

Fun? Longest night stop Dhaka (Bangladesh) perhaps Jakata occasionally. Mauritius/Seychelles 12 hours, great fun! The rest 24 hours or less. So maybe a chance to save some of those allowances after all.

Fleet: Modern. 777/330 no proper rest facilities so you will be spending a long time in the driving seat...piles of fun.

17,100 Dhms = approx £2410.00 = $4,700 US...hasn't changed in REAL terms for years and has in FACT devalued with the $ (over 25% net in the last 3 years...not EKs problem apparently but it WILL be yours). Time to command 5-7 years maybe...T&Cs will change and have effected this in the past. DECs still possible and will directly effect your command prospects.

Bond? There is one liable for the first 3 years, however, if they change T&Cs during your stay...no bond (keep original signed contract & see lawyer).

With 4000 hours, 2000 jet; yes you meet the minima and yes they are recruiting but surely you could do better than EK?

[Saltaire]

The US dollar is killing the package and they don't seem to appreciate rapid inflation in Dubai. Cost of living increases long overdue and not 1-2%, more like 10-15%.

How about waiting until the 25th of the previous month for next months roster.......Airbus. Very sub-par. No manual changes whatsoever......:yuk:

This could be a great thing, and has been but they are quickly falling behind.

[BigGeordie]

Let's not forget the 22Dhs/month telephone allowance:ok: Or the deductions for your family health insurance and your contribution to the provident fund which are both compulsory.

[Mistah Kurtz]

Rosters now seem to be working out at the minimum of 8 days off a month, there are definitely far better packages out there as the market improves

[SecurID]

In an unofficial survey (I just asked everyone I flew with) 80% of all pilots are unhappy and will be looking for something soon if the package here does not improve.

Why are they all not on here complaining? Because they are too busy and also too frightenened to say anything here.

[Pin Head]

And the bond, how much?

[max AB]

Jeez Pinny you're persistent that's for sure. Don't worry about these other blokes, they don't mention the good stuff.....like the sun shines..apparently that's why we're all here....

[Bo Jingly]

The bond? Ah, that must be the continually changing pact I signed with Lucifer, that permits a red hot poker to be shoved up my Jacksie; without complaint. Ooh, and the small print that says 'I will not complain, moan, bemoan or decry said such poker'


Ah well, it'll sort me 'Mike Riles' out......




:D

[797]

i came here because at that time (2000) it was much better than my previous job and ek sounded like paradise.

in all it is still ok, even though most of the guys i fly with are upset and demoralised.
but i believe for pilots in general that does not take much.

if ek would have left the package as it was, i for my part had nothing to complain about.

but they did not and we just see paradise turning into the place we previously left, without having the chance of going to court or effectively fighting for our original contracts.
(maybe one could go to court here in dubai, but we have this fear/doubt, it might harm us more or it would not do any good.
this might be very well true or is just our perception of things, but who is going to find out first?)
i´d be probably stupid enough.

yes, the salary is very much improvable, (mainly because of the weakening dollar), but housing is good and many of us take the opportunity to make use of the housing allowance to buy property, which turns out, so far, to be a very good move.

this putting us in a slot, where one actually settles in dubai, so making a move more difficult.

in all, if the current package ek is offering, is better than your existing, come by all means, i agree time to command in my opinion would be now at least 5 years.

but be prepared that this package will be opened and played around with.

[Bart O'Lynn]

Emirates...moan moan moan.God you guys are lucky. I fly a 737 in the UK and after tax i only clear £3500 a month with quiet winters where i'm forced to go and ski and lie on beaches.A new contract i'm going on this winter is only going to add 1500pounds after tax and the tight bastarbs are going to pay the hotel and car hire. On top of that i have to have 3 days off between trips, for skiing or jumpseating to the carib.Bastarbs. Just as i thought it couldnt get worse they gave me a sweetner to expedite my departure, god knows what i'm to do with that extra 2.5 grand, in lieu. I hate charter in the Uk because it rains and the schools are pants. The real nail in the coffin...I only have £2500 disposable income after all my bills are paid. I hate this job, it must be a reflection of my worth in the industry that i have to put up with this and fly a little airliner.

Gosh i so wish i could be an expat pilot in the gulf. Big airplanes quick commands endorsed on widely respected Dubai licences, validated or converted from everywhere that is respected in licencing such a cosmopoltan atmosphere must make work such fun.Not to mention cameraderie. Not having to worry about the house you dont own must be a relief.Not having to discuss your t/c s with your employer must kep the stress levels right down, why not let them worry about it, they must be qualified surely they're expats, the cream of the worlds management. Getting to sit i the cockpit nearly every day all year must be fun, especially as there is a beach and petrol is cheap.The lure of having a tax free salary is great.It must be so useful to have a huge amount of your salary in "kind" like a tower block flat or a sandy villa wthout the stress of ownership i mentioned . Are Emirates recruiting does anyone know, how do i join?
Can i give up more of my salary for medical cover, and do my teeth have to be perfect before i come, so i dont actually need to visit the dentist. So many questions, so few answers. Can anyone help??White Knight where are you when I need you:ok:

[Pin Head]

So is there a bond yes or no?

[SecurID]

Yes there is. $36000 years US reducing over 3 years

[Bo Jingly]

and a free poker.........

[VeniVidiVici]

Bart O'Lynn

Some prose.

:cool:

[bluewater]

This may be of interest to those thinking they will come to EK and leave and not pay the bond...gottcha.

Todays Khaleej Times
Expats will require permit to travel out of country on leave
By Nada S. Mussallam

26 January 2005
ABU DHABI — Expatriates working in UAE will have to obtain a permit to travel out of the country on leave, under a change proposed in the relevant rules.
“Expatriates working in the country, who intend to go on leave, will have to obtain a temporary travel permit jointly sanctioned by the Ministry of Labour and the Ministry of Interior,” Dr Ali Abdulla Al Kaabi, the Minister of Labour and Social Affairs, told ‘Khaleej Times’ here yesterday.

[Believe Brother]

And the good news just rolls on! Do we all feel like prisoners yet?? Mind you, with all the sun, beaches and golf courses, why would you want to leave the place?????

[Bart O'Lynn]

You lucky lucky lucky bastarbs. I wish i had to do something like that . A permit to leave must make leave planing so much easier. But why would you want to come home anyway. Its no good alledgedly, crap weather, home ownership, crap schools, freedom of speech, crap public services,citizen rights,crap immigrants, freedom of travel,crap crime, equal justice system, crap beaches, lots of other things to do, crap hookers, lots of normal girls. the list is endless.

[Backwater]

If they do that I will leave. No hesitation, no looking back.
I sincerely hope this is a rumour with no basis. Otherwise we might as well be across the border in KSA, except there the salaries are higher! Of course you run the risk of being abducted on the way to work...
What a retrograde step this would be for Dubai. Is it Abu Dhabi's way of reigning in it's successful cousin?

[P1 Forever]

Hi,

bluewater, surely this can't be true. What happens if you decide the sandpit is not for you and have an interview for a european airline, do you have to have a permit. Even worse, if a member of the family suddenly past away, can't be much fun trying to get a permit then.

I think this would reduce the number of applicants to EK - A380 or no A380!!!

[bluewater]

This is the link below. Yes a very backward move if it's passed. Certainly not a step forward into the first world. Mind boggles how the permit/s will be issued - online, month/s at a time, or in person at the Ministry of Labour and the Interior.with one million others ahead in the cue and then automatically deducted from your salary. My first thought was it’s a move to restrict home owners leaving with hefty mortgages/bonds. Heaven forbid the UAE banks don’t want a thousand concrete block villas in the back and beyond!

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Displayarticle.asp?section=theuae&xfile=data/theuae/2005/january/theuae_january756.xml

“The move aims at maintaining internal security and safeguarding the rights of employers as it was also meant to make sure that the travelling expat was not involved in any violation of labour law or residency rules,” said Dr Kaabi.

[Iso]

I thought the first world abolished slavery? Obviously a new trend in employer ownership in the UAE. I hope the whippings improve. I think Bart O'Lynn will be green with envy when he hears the whippings are made more frequent. Perhaps an occassional staff beheading on Fridays might encourage staff moral. Bart you poor sod, better get your ass over there soon or you might miss out.

[Ghostflyer]

Taking a wild (but educated) guess, like most of the labour laws it probably isn't aimed at white collar workers but more toward the bottom of the pile. Does your employer keep your passport? No! Its a total none issue.

Bart, the EK F/Os takehome at the mo is £2400! Come on in for the big bucks, the weather is lovely!

Ghost

[Bart O'Lynn]

Whippings!!? Did someone say whippings? I have to pay for that.

Anyway guys I'm off on my business flight to the overpaid drudgery of a short term contract as mentioned. spare a thought for me as you ride dirt bikes (again) on the sand, go to the beach (again), bitch and moan at scarletts (again). i will have to endure the hell of a brand new experience to pass the winter at the companies expense, and still they want to give me more money for days off, if i dont mind that is,no pressure. The bloody nerve.

just remember those of us like me who are less fortunate. I dont have my government (Read company), worrying about my travel plans. I'm not secure in the knowledge that i will use all my salary this month just to live. I dont have the luxury of knowing that everyone who gets a dec is better qualified than me and on top of all that i have to pay tax.Bummer.

i dont know how you sleep at night, living the life of reilly in the desert while i live like an indentured sub continent maid. Talking of the sub continent how are the new dec's.

Have fun guys, and remember those russian girls really do love you .....(long time):ok:

[bluewater]

This was in the Gulf News the next day…

NATION | SOCIETY
Published: 27/1/2005, 07:46 (UAE)

Al Ka'abi: No plan to impose travel permits on expats

By Duraid Al Baik, UAE Editor and Samir Salama, Bureau Chief
Abu Dhabi/Dubai: Expatriates who intend to travel abroad will not be forced to get travel permits from the UAE Government, a top official said.
"We have no intention of imposing a travel-permit system on expatriate workers," said Dr Ali Bin Abdullah Al Ka'abi, Minister of Labour and Social Affairs.
Dr Al Ka'abi was earlier quoted as saying in a section of the media that expatriate workers who intend to go on leave will have to obtain a temporary travel permit sanctioned by the labour ministry as well as the Ministry of Interior.
"What was published is not accurate. No changes in the labour or residency rules have yet been proposed. We did not submit any such suggestions to the Ministry of Interior," Dr Al Ka'abi said.

[Muttley Crew]

And today……..

Travel permit plan is one option: govt
By Nada S. Mussallam

28 January 2005

ABU DHABI — Minister of Labour and Social Affairs Dr Ali bin Abdulla Al Kaabi has confirmed that a proposal to introduce a new policy requiring expatriates to obtain a travel permit for leaving the country is one of the few alternatives aimed at protecting national security and safeguarding the rights of employers and employees. Speaking to Khaleej Times yesterday, the minister said he had not denied a report published Wednesday by this paper about the proposal.
A section of the local Press had carried reports quoting Dr Kaabi as having denied the report.
“I haven’t denied the report. We are actually discussing this proposal with the Ministry of Interior as one of the alternatives to develop mechanisms to maintain national security and safeguard the rights of both employers and employees,” Dr Kaabi said over telephone. An exclusive KT report had unravelled the mechanisms being studied by the ministries of Labour and Interior to come up with a new policy to solve the problem of retaining employees’ passports by employers.
“One of the mechanisms that will be discussed by the two ministeries is issuing a temporary travel permit for expats working in the country instead of holding back their passports,” Dr Kaabi reaffirmed.
“The idea behind this proposed measure is not to bar people from travelling outside the country, but to ensure that they keep their passports with them. This mechanism will guarantee the rights of both employers and employees and put an end to the problem.”
“Retaining a personal document is a problem that has prompted the ministry to come up with such a mechanism in coordination with other agencies concerned,” said Dr Kaabi.
“It is a problem that needs to be resolved through legal channels,” he added.
Going into details revealing other proposals being discussed by the two ministeries, Dr Kaabi said on is to introduce a new technology which would help the authorities to check whether the foreigner leaving the country is barred from travelling. The two ministries are already linked through an electronic network that also links all entry and exit points where data on each foreigner can be accessed in a matter of seconds

[fractional]

G'day,
Speaking of cost of living, just chk this out:
http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/NationNF.asp?ArticleID=149569

For those unable to get it from the net, I copied/pasted the newspaper article below. It clearly states what (almost) everyone has been saying on this topic and all the others. The cost of living has gone UP^^^... It is the Government admitting it not anyone else...
It doesn't matter who you are if you are living in the UAE. You all have to eat, drink, etc..

One footnote: it's misleading to say "I'm fine bec it suits me" or "it isn't my problem". Well, it might me your turn next, and...
It's much better to stop winging and start adding constructive opinions to indicate that all speak a very similar language. As many say, the company bosses or "ushers" read pprune.org too .

All the best.

QUOTE
Government employees likely to get 20% salary raise

Staff Report

Abu Dhabi: Government employees could receive a 20 per cent salary boost after a review of living costs by the Ministry of Economy and Planning, an Arabic daily newspaper reports.

Al Khaleej newspaper cited a study that examined a rise in the prices of staple goods and medicines over the last five years.
The study and its proposals will be submitted to the Cabinet within the next two weeks.

Officials at the ministry found that the prices of essential food items had gone up by 22 per cent since 2000 whereas the prices of some highly sought-after medicines had increased by 28 per cent.

As a result, the study proposed that the salaries of government employees should be increased by at least 20 per cent to help citizens meet present living expenses.

The study recommended reducing fuel prices to the same levels they were four years ago.

At the same time, proposals include the formation of a higher committee to draw up and implement the general pricing policy, providing reasonable profit margins for traders to comply with and to be held accountable in case of any violations.

Ministerial officials also said it was important to control and monitor prices and that such responsibilities are not only in the ministry's remit, but must also be tackled by non-profit cooperative societies, several of which are operating in the UAE.

In addition, ministry experts also called for more comprehensive regulations for personal loans, "to curb the chaos that has been evident in this regard".

Such regulations should bring closer scrutiny on age and financial status to raise public awareness on the issue of consumption
UNQUOTE

[Payscale]

Where does goverment end and the Ruling family private business start?
If Etihad is "the national airline of the UAE" does thay imply they are goverment employees. What about Emirates?

Any thoughts?

[6100]

I would guess that if you are a local, then you would be a government employee and if you are an expat then you are not.

[donpizmeov]

Interesting that government folk may look forward to a 20% pay rise, as that is about the same % as the ( cost neutral) pay cut EK pilots have just taken.
Lucky no-one else in the EK group has also taken a cut.

Don

[BYMONEK]

Bart O'Lynn

Before you jet off on your lucrative adventure i just wish to apologise on behalf of my collegues here in Emirates who failed to give you the response you were so hoping for.Maybe,as you say,they are all far too busy and wouldn't dream of wasting their precious 8 days.Luckily for me,I have 13,18 if you include rest days so in between the school run ( private shool as you well know) and obligatory trip to the beach in the afternoon, I can just about spare you a few minutes.Please don't concern yourself regarding our mickey mouse licences.We still keep our hard earned old ones and just renew them every 5 years like you do. As for Dec's, that's all gone quiet at the moment although the ones we took recently from the 'sub continent' came from well dodgy outfits such as B.A.,United,SAS,Swiss and Air Canada to name but a few.Shocking eh? Many of the guys here are now taking the housing allowance which as an F/O works out at just over £13,000 extra p.a gross,net that's about....er...£13,000! Which is pretty crap when you consider the state of the housing market.The last 2 years has seen unfeasibly large price rises so many of us who took an early'risk' have seen some outstanding pofit.And i'm talking BIG money.Lucky for you that the UK is a stagnating market eh? One less stress of how to spend that spare few hundred thousand made in 15 months!
I was surprised to read that you flit off to the Carribean for 3 days at a time.The Carrib is just soo last year darling,you really must leave that to the package holiday brigade that now frequent the place.Still,I Guess if you're a Captain you'd fly First or Buisness class as an F/O? Whoops,I forgot you worked Charter but hey,if you work for one of the posh ones,they have a 'Premium' cabin.You Know,the one where the Cabin Crew Misguidingly think of as 'Buisness' because it has 36" leg room and 8 across seating,much like our.......economy! Still,you could always pretend. After all,you really don't know any better do you? Glad to hear that your Company pay for your Hotel.Do you mean to say that there are Airlines out there who Don't.You'll be telling us next that you have to do your OWN driving when you pick up the hire car.No wonder you get paid so much.You don't mention anything about pensions so I can only assume that you don't get one as your package is already so supreme or that it is as crap as ours truly is! Also,don't slate that little 737 of yours.We all have to start somewhere in our flying career and one day you will be able to do the walkround without having to duck!But,until that day arrives,don't let all those illegal immigrants piss you off..............your tax is going to a good cause.
p.s. Is it STILL cold and miserable there?:cool:

[AERO DYNAMIK]

Well BYMONEK

Thats got to be the most idiotic reply I've read on here in a long time.

Headfull of spiders mate........

[druckmefunk]

Yeah, I'd have to agree.

If anything would put you off coming to EK, the risk of flying with that idiot would do it.

dmf

[00bultril]

BYMOANEK

Lots of pent-up anger there man.
EK clinic offers anger management courses.
came off the boob too soon hey:ooh:

DEC not over check out training courses for JAN and APRIL

[Oceanic]

Commiseration to all of you unfortunate enough to have to spend countless hours sat next to that idiot Bymon...if your lot wasn't bad enough already, to be rostered on a long trip with him would be the icing on the top...

[EGGW]

Gentlemen, i think BYMONEK has collectively yanked your chains. :p

EGGW

[BYMONEK]

EGGW

Yep.........4 in one go.I'm getting good at this !

[Ghostflyer]

Bymonek,

This springs to mind:

SAN FRANCISCO MAN BECOMES FIRST AMERICAN TO GRASP IRONY

SAN FRANCISCO - Jay Fullmer, 38, yesterday became the first American to get to grips with the concept of irony. "It was weird" Fullmer said. "I was in London and like, talking to this guy and it was raining and he pulled a face and said, "great weather eh?" and I thought - "wait a minute, no way is it great weather".

He then realised that the other man's 'mistake' was in fact deliberate. Fullmer, who is 39 next month and married with two children, aged 8 and 3, plans to use irony himself in future. "I'm like using it all the time."

He said. "Last weekend I was grilling steaks and I burned them to **** and I said .................'Hey, great weather!'".

Ghost

P.S. As for your days off, wait for the bottom bid groups!

[crapflying]

Gostflyer,
you realy made my day, I have not laughed this hard for a realy long time,
thanks.....:D :D :D :D

[Bart O'Lynn]

Yes but i was the first to start the yanking, i've always been a yanker, now i must dash and spend some of my hard currency,

[Dropp the Pilot]

A scrap of dialogue from Black Adder springs to mind:

Bl'adder: "Baldrick, you have no concept of the meaning of irony"

Baldrick: "I do too. It's like "goldy" or "bronzey" but made out iron"



A lot of people on this forum are operating at that level. Maybe there is is a course you can take somewhere?

[JapJok]

Maybe Bart's post was wasted on me.

Maybe I'm lioke the yank and don't quite get irony.

Is he serious or up himself?

Maybe he's a QF retread??

Please provide answers. I have the razor blade ready......not to slash my wrists, but to cut this dick.....'s spuds out.