Silverstone GP Heli Ops

[EESDL]

Attention all military freelance pilots working at Silverstone this year.

You are cordially invited to attend corporate hospitality, provided by the gratefull taxpayer. Attractions to include: lots of naked ladies, suffering from amnesia; Mr Tony Blair and his 'let's give the military more wonga' roadshow; Free alcohol, for pilots only; and the chance to, yet again, have a famous Swindon girl on your back seat.....

[HOGE]

Who's famous in Swindon then?

[ANOrak]

I thought she paired withBristol!

[This message has been edited by ANOrak (edited 24 March 2000).]

[Speechless Two]

But seriously, folks – what are the feelings amongst you current rotary inclined gentlemen about this annual exercise in first hand experience of multiple airproxes – especially as this year Silverstone is being held much earlier in a potentially more inclement season?

I for one thoroughly enjoyed being there on the good weather days but the bad days made me wonder about the sanity of the whole thing. Have things changed – is the organisation any better nowadays?

Are there still rumours of the British Grand Prix being held at some time in the future at Brands Hatch? Having done the Brands run when the GP was held there in 1980, I seem to remember the local area topography made the whole thing more difficult with the low cloud we had that year, compared to a low cloud Silverstone day. I came v. close to writing myself off in a mid-air with everyone down at 500 ft – and the traffic was nothing like as bad back then.

[Pinger]

What is it about black gazelles and Hughes 500s of any colour at the Grand Prix?

Would it really be saner if Teeny Weeny Airways stopped leave for the event, or would they find someone else to fly them?

[Reg C Elley]

:)
I realise that you're obviously trying to be provocative Pinger, so I'll play your game.
Fu ck off you red nosed c**t, don't give me that holier than thou attitude. Coming from a branch of the FAA that is universally reviled(according to your name)you're afine one to talk Or are you just using that name to make everyone think that you're a tosser.
In the immortal words of another of the members of this forum "Eat Me!!!!! :)

[This message has been edited by Reg C Elley (edited 25 March 2000).]

[EESDL]

Back to the 'Silverstone' topic.

ATC still insist on clearing batches of callsigns in and through the system, so they just move the hazard closer to the cct. There's no trickle feed or proactive ATC 'control'. You end up calling for entry 20 minutes before you anticipate getting to the area, normally when you're finals for your feeder site, the sortie before the sortie in question, if you know what I mean.

Brands have got major planning permission requirements to succeed with before the venue is of F1 spec.

Silverstone's still fun, or should I say the bits in between Silverstone are still fun. I mean where else do you get paid to perv....

[Pinger]

Reg, bystander or not youre a pretty sad case arent you? As you so shrewdly (should that be "shrewishly"?) observed I was being a little provocative, but making a point all the same. Have you even been to Silverstone heliport, or did it just rattle one of the skeletons in your cupboard?

You make risky assumptions based on names in this forum, most of us pick up on that fairly quickly, but sadly not everyone I see.

Your personal, offensive and childishly disguised invective is simply beneath contempt.

I think youve proved beyond doubt what kind of person you are.

[Reg C Elley]

OK Pinger, my offensive and childish disguised(as what???),invective aside. Just what point were you trying to make? I don't belive that my references to 'Pingers' even approached the diparaging, almost libellous jibe directed at a group of aviators trained by the same Tri-service organisation that trains the other but unmentioned services.
Please excuse my obvious stupidity,if you have a problem being identified as a pinger why adopt that pseudonym? You were right though, I allowed the anger of a moment overcome my better judgement, so I unreservedly withdraw my remarks about pingers, even if the junglies wouldn't agree.
But yes you're absolutely right I don't like an organisation of which I'm inordinately proud being 'slagged off' by someone who obviously knows little about it.
And just for the record - no skeletons in my cupboard. :)

[Speechless Two]

Reg and Pinger - Could I suggest you swap email addresses and then you could abuse each other to your hearts content without putting the rest of us through your immature antics?

[neverinbalance]

Speechless Two, how dare you suggest that Reg & Pinger go private! This is the most interesting exchange to appear in Rotorheads for a long time. Just look at the Drying Paint thread. Over to you Reg & Pinger - "May the force be with you both".

[Robbo Jock]

Sorry if I appear naive, but I suppose I am, but what exactly was it about Pinger's post that got Reg so wound up ?

And (and I suppose this was it) who exactly are Teeny Weeny Airways ?

[Sloppylinkage]

Sorry I must have come in a bit late over Silverstone but Reg C Elley must get real! Nearly 80% of the fAA are, have been or have worked extremely closely with Pingers. Your rather monocular comments wrt Pingers infers that you really don't know what they do! Whilst sitting in a 40' hover at night / IMC in a heavy aircraft over rough seas a long way from mum might not be everyones cup of tea, those that do it, actually do it quite well! I remember the Pingers as the blokes who can hold their beer, trap the women and still make the early Ripple slot on time! You should remember that whilst the rest of the Rotary fraternity went on goggles the Pingers got the hind tit and subsequently still do all their stuff including 24 Hr Mountain SAR without the benefit of the magic goggles. Whilst there will undoubtedly be those out there who need to get their dicks out to prove how good a pilot they are, the only real pole you should be hanging on to is the one connected to the cockpit floor! Now lets be nice to each other, seeing as we're all going to be fighting for the same airspace on finals at Silverstone!

[Reg C Elley]

SloppyLinkage,
OK
Reg :)

[Speechless Two]

Great defence for Pingers, Sloppylinkage – appreciated as former member of that ilk. At least the present guys do it on two engines and at 40 ft. In the dear old Wessy 1 we did it on one engine and at 30ft. The Gazelle engine topped out at 19900 compressor rpm and if you hadn’t made the hover by 19600 rpm you overshot using the remaining 300 compressor rpm to climb out at, if an old memory serves me right, some 80 ft/min. No room for stick stirrers during the go around! In the Far East during the early to mid 60’s with such a narrow margin for error it was not an uncommon occurrence for crews to fail to make the hover and fly straight into the water at night.

Compared to the performance of the Whirly 7 we thought we were in clover with such an upmarket aircraft and systems. Love to have a go in the Merlin, but would probably feel too spoilt with three motors.

Ain’t nostalgia wonderful!!

Bit off the Silverstone topic – apologies, but good luck to all you guys who are going to cram yourselves into the airspace there next month.

[MightyGem]

Robbo, Teeny Weeny Airways (TWA) was an affectionate(!!??) name for the Army Air Corps many years ago. ;)

[Robbo Jock]

Thanks, Mighty, I now have some idea what all that was about !

[Pinger]

Well beggared if I do!

[Ack2Main]

Just thought I'd let everyone know how I loved Silverstone this year. And a special thanks go to all those who didn't know where East point was, or thought it was about 10 miles from Silverstone. Great.

But you could't keep me away. I'll be there again next year. Love it!!

[EESDL]

I especially enjoyed the multi-level holds over North Point! Pah! Why bother checking the ATIS more than once a week.....

See you next year!

[fastback]

I heard Silverstone was going to be quiet this year but I thought there would be more than 2 "rotorhead" pilots there.
Or did the rest go home after they saw it was foggy in the morning!

[Ack2Main]

My thanks to EESDL and fastback but no-one else seemed to want to chomp at this.

Oh well see you all next year.

[EESDL]

Hey, the thread's not over 'til the fat girl has done her thing...

Funniest thing heard on the RT this year:

Setting- everyone chomping at the bit to get airborne - about 1030ish, couple of CAA guys around so had to play the game. Charter companies getting very concerned with passenger tailback. Nice new EC120 returns to feeder site exclaiming that there was no way through to SS. Ops gets on the RT:
"may I suggest that you follow G-BLAH (old jetranger) has he seemed to have found a way through!!"

Laughed my phucking socks off. My pax must have thought that their pilot had cracked, following the railway line from Milton Keynes, at x feet, with tears running down his face!!

[greenarrow]

Well here we go again, This time with penty of new boys including the heavy metal! and some are rotary brothers from the EEC!.
What joy to behold the joining and avoiding the calling and hovering and not forgetting those northside heros trying to hover without the ajoining aircraft nicking your air!
Good luck I will be watching with intrest. :eek:

[MaxNg]

There will be a lack of Puma's this year ?

yet another casualty of pilot shortage.

To all those doing there bit at silverstone.

Keep cool, don't cut up your fellow aviator, keep your eyes outside and have a great day.

:rolleyes:

[CAT MAN]

Can I go along for a ride???
:rolleyes:

[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: TR3 ]

[EESDL]

You're on finals, but there is an ac hovering on an adjacent spot to the one that you have been allocated (late of course)...meaning that you have to hold short whilst the other ac either lands or departs......Let's assume you have finally made it to your spot and disembarked your pax...you then lift, 180, land....and repeat the whole 'no adjacent hovering' scenario whilst trying to depart...
So if an ac is cleared to an adjacent spot whilst I'm blocking my spot, I can't free up my spot until they have landed...or something like that.
Fot all those on Gates 5 and 7, I apologise in advance, I will be trying but please bare in mind that they've given me an under-powered 206L to play with!!!

[Kipper]

What is going on at Scotia? :confused: To pull the Puma plug on Oxford Air Services, Cabair and McAlpine at such short notice is a bit left wing and is damaging to the smaller operators' reputations as well.

[airsnail]

EESDL, the same thought came to me,
You have been given a spot but can`t land because someone is hovering on the next spot.!

So you slow down on final , as does eveyone else behind you, not a great situation to be in.

It is stated in the brief

"It is anticipated that expedition of traffic flow will be affected to some degree but,with familiarisation and practice this should be minimal."

Yeah right!!

[morning shuttle]

Scotia didn't realy have a choice. All the Puma crews are so short of hours and add to that a big backlog of oil workers trying to get home after a solid week of fog (1000 I heard)and the oil companies demanding to get the priorities for seats that they no longer pay for. To send 5 pumas south this weekend would be commercial suicide.

[Qualityman]

Did anybody have any problems with the "Non adjacent Hovering" restriction on the pads?

From a Ground view it all appeared to run very smoothly, and after being at the BGP for more years than I care to remember, the standard of Airmanship displayed by all seemed the most professional ever. Witnessed one or two close scares, but nothing too serious, and the usual "inter-operator" competition to get in / get out as quickly as possible was almost non-existent.

Perfect weather and a really helpful ATC crew made my experience the best yet.

Well done to you all.

And EESDL, thanks for the wazz.

[airsnail]

True the "non adjacent hovering" didn`t seem to cause a problem.

My guess is that ATC wouldn`t let helicopters join until they were sure the pads were going to be clear.

In the 5 years I`ve been at silverstone this was the worst year for being held up outside the zone.

Don`t know about anyone else but I would rather be hovering next to someone on the pads than trying to look out for them holding around the zone.

One last point, north point was and is very easy to spot so why were so many pilots getting it confused with other places.
(It probably wasn`t many pilots just the same ones over and over again)

[EESDL]

What fantastic weather. Had no problems with the hovering malarky, although it seemed some other pilots hadn't read that part of the brief!!

There is a legitimate way for beating the long hold but then if I tell you.......and sometimes it can backfire:-)

Apart from the sheer numbers involved, one of the other reasons for being held is to do with your colour code, ie if there is only 1 white c/s in the hold, even if they join later, and there are 4 red c/s, then, the white one will be cleared in as soon as a white gate becomes available....

Many thanks to Turweston Twr for their help with our transit requests, it saved having to squeeze in between Brackley and Hinton-in-the-Hedges.

[The Nr Fairy]

So, Silverstone - what's it like ? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Is it as terrifying as people make out ?

[Heliport]

Good question, Nr Fairy.
Bet they all love it - if greenarrow is who I think he is, he's no wimp!

[HeliEng]

I have to say, as much as all those guys know what they are doing, (That includes you EESDL!!!) I flew in for the first time last year with an experienced pilot, but as a private flight, and it scared me s**tless!!!

There are aircraft everywhere, and having been asked to point them out on route if any were visable and on a converging path, you find yourself going:

"There's one...........there's one, there's one, there's another one, OH GOD THEY ARE EVERYWHERE!!"

I much prefer being on the ground and watching my guys doing their thing from Terra Firma. Although if I were to do it again I don't think I would be as bothered. The first time is the worst (As with most things) especially if you have never experienced ANYTHING like it before.

Anyhow hope you all enjoyed it.


'Some days you are pigeon, some days you are statue!!'

[EESDL]

Did anyone else hum "The Dambusters" theme tune to a load of German Mercedes execs?

[Technodimbo]

Please........

Someone must have a mate, who knows someone, whose cousin's ex-boyfriend etc etc..

Any ideas?

Send a PM if more appropriate, I'll see if I can work out how to receive it.

[Heliport]

Technodimbo
The Pprune owners operate a very strict 'No Free Advertising' policy. The Moderators on this forum tend to turn a blind eye to 'job posts' (provided they aren't by businesses freeloading) because we're a small community within aviation and we help each other whenever we can.
Your first post was asking for something.
You contributed nothing to the forum before asking and you've contributed nothing since.
Your second post is just a reminder you want something.

"Any ideas?"
Yes. Get yourself known on the forum (as someone who gives as well as tries to take) or pay up for an advert in Flight's classified section.
I know of people who have got jobs through Rotorheads, but why would any regular who knows of a job going want to PM you about it instead of tipping off another regular contributor?

Heliport
Moderator

PS
And starting your very first post with "Having resisted posting on here for ages, I'm now forced into it" isn't the best way to win friends and influence people.

[B Sousa]

This sounds like a trap to get Neville Dawson to post under his new PPrune name......ha ha

[EESDL]

Have to disagree with you oh mighty Moderator one!

Thought this forum would be quite useful in helping fellow pilots find freelance/perm employment, in addition to other means.

Can't see the harm in it.

Readers do not have to open the thread and, compared to the memory that is taken up with pics reminding professional pilots what an ac looks like.......

I'm afraid I have to agree with you that it's a petty he/she started with the unfortunate opening remarks.
My experience with this forum (for what it's worth) tends me to believe that jobs are obtained 3rd or 4th hand, from the odd tip-off here and there, but, mostly, from a personal rec from someone in the know!!

Forgotten the thread originators name already, shame they didn't post more often!
I'll PM them some recs as it's no skin off my nose.

[Letsby Avenue]

Nobody in their right mind will reply to a letter/CV from an unknown originator - The only truly tried and tested method is 'face time' Get yourself a copy of the BHAB booklet, phone a few companies and confirm the name of the Chief Pilot and/or Operations manager with the secretary and then pitch up and have a chat with them. Back that up later with a nice letter and CV plus a follow up phone call. I would forget about it this year as the charter business is too busy in the summer, I would wait until September and work on them throughout the winter for next year. Expect a knock back rate of around 95% and you’re in.....:cool:

[topcat450]

I have to agree that a polite thanks but no thanks is common courtesy. Unfortunately I know from first hand experience, having written to over 100+ operators in one mail-shot I got less than 50 replies - even one liners saying no thanks - and a number of the ignorant were fully fledge airlines.

Having said that, I did get a personal reply from a well known Egyptian shop owner in London..which boosted him in my estimation - I didn't expect a reply from him, but I got one. :)

[Hoverman]

EESDL
The no free advertising rule is a Prune rule so there's no use getting sarcastic with the Mods. The only time Technodumbo has posted is to ask for a job. If you read between the lines Heliport is saying contribute something to the forum AND be subtle and he'll do a Nelson. I know you contribute but your 'job wanted' post a few weeks ago was a straightforward Classified Ad complete with a link to your CV and was bound to be binned. It was'nt exactly subtle.

[Daifly]

Not generally a Rotary kinda guy, but am interested in all recruitment stuff (as I deal with it from the other side).

I have to stand up for the industry a bit. Pilots seem to forget that the operators in GA are generally small, where the admin staff tend to have about 15 roles (but without the time or pay, but that's another argument!)

I've posted this in Wannabees many times, I hope one day the message will get through! We receive about 20 speculative CV's a day despite being really clear on our website and in telephone conversations that we advertise vacancies on the website when they arise. To answer each one of these on a daily basis costs £4.00 in postage; which is small fry compared to the hour it would take to reply from someone who has more important things to deal with than unsolicited mail.

It's a really bad situation to be in, job hunting, but we've all been there. It just annoys me that we operators get slated for not replying to applications for jobs which don't exist and which haven't been asked for.

That said, one thing Wannabees came up with, which I thought was a grand idea, was to include a Stamped Postcard with a couple of tickboxes. a) Received? b) Any jobs? Yes/No c) On file? Yes/No, if yes, how long? d) Do you have a recruitment website? Yes/No, address? It solved the phone call for the applicant ("Did you receive my CV?") and meant that the person on the receiving end was happier to help (no or little cost to the operator).

If, of course, the Operator has asked for CV's and doesn't respond then that's not great. However, we've been there too and it was simply time rather than any economic argument.

[EESDL]

Hoverman and Heliport
Thanks for reminding me to look at 'PPRuNes's Terms and Conditions'...guess I should have done that before I posted!!
Can't complain with people sticking to the guidelines - can I.
Couldn't see the harm in one man advertising his thread-related skills but I quite agree, rules are rules.

As far as the pics of ac go.......Haven't quite reached the 'ac spotter' stage but I suppose I would think differently if my antiquated pc could cope with anything larger than a post-it:-)

[Technodimbo]

Heliport
My humblest apologies. I've edited the post (only took about an hour - I'm getting better) to try to say what I meant the first time.
I confess, again humbly, that I did not read the Terms and Conditions in any detail when I registered, and would wager that I and EESDL are not the only ones to have been so lax.
As I said, I've been an interested reader for a while, and I was only doing what I've seen lots of others do. It never really crossed my mind that it was 'advertising' but of course you are correct, it is.
As for paying for an ad in Flight. Having read Daifly's post I cannot even begin to imagine that such a move would be succesful. Do you think the admin' staff who are snowed-under with CVs would trawl through magazines looking for staff?

No, I don't. So do what others do on this forum - be more subtle about it and contribute to discussions and there won't be a problem. ;)

Heliport

[jstr4753]

As for the original post, i dont think there'll any spare pilot jobs going for silverstone this year. I know most, if not all, operators are severely down on pax numbers this year, so they all seem to be having to lose pilots rather than gain. Seems theres just a downturn in corporate spending this year. Not good for us tho!!

jstr

[Happy Landing !]

Don't know about the job - but I'd like a Jet Ranger in one piece:{

[Dantruck]

Well if you will go and break it, what do you expect?...

Follow your engine's example and 'stop whining' :p

Returning to the thread, I hear it's all looking pretty lean on the Silverstone front. Shame really, cos last year was fun.

[Captain Lai Hai]

Heliport

You have the manners of a pig




Thank you Captain.
How kind of you to take the trouble to write.
Hope your day improves. :rolleyes:

Heliport

[Pub User]

I have a cousin who occasionally indulges himself by travelling to the Grand Prix in a helo, and he tells me he had difficulty booking a seat this year - his usual firm was fully booked and he had to go elsewhere. Unfortunately he doesn't know the names of the helo companies, but there must be one short of pilots somewhere.

[rotorcraig]

The timetable for the British Grand Prix (here (http://www.octagonmotorsports.com/Britain%202606031.pdf)) included an "Apache Helicopter Fly Past" at 1600 today.

Anyone know whether it actually flew?

Being (a) local (b) sad and (c) not in posession of Silverstone tickets this year :( I drove over to see whether I could at least spot the Apache doing it's stuff, but neither saw nor heard anything.

RC

[Hilico]

You didn't see or hear it? Obviously no-one's told you how stealthy this aircraft is.

Meanwhile, I saw a UH-60 today over North-East Essex. Where do they come from then?

[headsethair]

It'll be back.

I'm sure Thursday's visit was just target acquisition on behalf of Bernie & Max.

Wow - they've let an Apache out! That might have been a useful thing to do in GW II.......:mad:

[NickLappos]

Hilico,

Where did that UH-60 come from? A factory in Connecticut, but we don't have time for that..... ;)

Nick
(with apologies to the movie "Airplane":

"There's trouble in the cockpit!"

"What's that?"

"The room in the front where the pilots sit, but we don't have time for that."

"Surely there must be something we can do!"

"Don't call me Shirley."

[MightyGem]

Lakenheath or Mildenhall is my best bet. But then again my best is not always very good!

[Hilico]

He's a Vietnam vet, a test pilot, S-92 program manager and a comedian? Blimey that country has some talented people!

[EESDL]

Rumour has it that the flypast was cancelled because the operators weren't sure whether or not the ac could cope in such a high 'electromagnetic' environment. It wasn't the datalink from the cars that concerned them but the radio being used in the burger van!

[newswatcher]

Little snippet in my paper today, says that "the Army" have halved the re-fuelling time for Apaches, by using F1 pit-stop techniques.

Not sure if this has anything to do with the fly-past!!

[Grainger]

This doesn't involve getting the nozzle stuck and running over the mechanics before the whole lot catches fire, I hope ?

[old heliman]

Ref the timetable

Don't mind missing the GP

Don't mind missing the Apache

DO mind missing Quo at the party.

Maybe 'cos I'm an OLD heliman

[Wedge]

Having just got back from Friday at Silverstone -

I definitely DON'T mind missing qualifying!! What a bore.

Practice was good though.

PS can I have a ride in a 'copter next year please :E

[ShyTorque]

Are you sure it didn't say A POSH helicopter? ;)

[Letsby Avenue]

Being (a) local (b) sad and (c) not in posession of Silverstone tickets this year

Has anybody bought tickets for Silverstone this year?

[Capn Notarious]

Has anybody bought tickets for Silverstone this year?

At those prices never.

Now if it was Wagners Ring Cycle

I'd rather be at Fairford

Crikey : mentioned plank flying amongst the rotarians!

I'll get:mad: for this

[surfingatco]

Armed with my "Contractors" ticket I'll be off to Silverstone in the morning to look after you Rotorheads from the tower this weekend. Let's hope the weather's okay on Sunday or Bernie will not be amused ;)

Be gentle with me (I'll be the Jock on the North Side!)

I don't mind not seeing the GP but how do I get into the Quo party?

[rotorrookie]

It could be fun to see the Apache take the RED ones with the SPAGHETTI motors out of race....like cutting them in half with the machine gun hehe:E

[Daifly]

Was there yesterday for the practice and pre-qualifying. Good day, wasn't that bad price-wise and (if you're a petrolhead) was lots to see and dribble over...!

The Apache did a flypast down the pit straight on Thursday to co-incide with a Williams (ISTR) driving through - all a publicity stunt to shower praise on the defence industry for taking on civvie ideas. How marvellous. (They had the press looking at a Jetranger to publicise the heliport, when these things came flying through - supposed to really grab their attention - like a tray of canapes wouldn't have done the same thing).

The one thing I did find amusing was that the Army had decamped a whole Division of AAC guys and gals to help (but I never saw them anywhere near the Apache and I was at Copse for most of the day (where it was parked) - methinks there's a bit of taxpayer's being spent on hospitality here...) Anyway, I'd do it if had the chance!

[ShyTorque]

I'll be in and out. A half dozen or so times.....good job I find the "Schumacher circus" boring. :rolleyes:

[phnuff]

I spent much of yesterday watching helicopters coming in and out of Silverstone and at times it was like something out of Apocalypse Now. It got me wondering how does Air Traffic work for Silverstone? Is approach handled locally? Do they draft in additional staff etc.etc.etc However its done, the result is just incredible - well done

[surfingatco]

Hi

I'm one of the 9 (SRG approved) ATCOs who were handling the helicopters over the Silverstone weekend. My "day job" is as a Heathrow Approach controller at LTCC - others come from Southend, Shoreham, LACC, Stansted, Birmingham and Booker, ably supported by a team of assistants and led by a SATCO and ATC Manager (you know who you are!)

Basically, the airfield is split into 2 halfs - 24/06 tarmac and 24/06 grass, each with around 16 stands. 3 controllers at a time control the North side, another 3 control the south side. Each helicopter is allocated a colour and a number for the north side and a colour and a letter for the south side. Helicopters join on prescribed routes on either side without crossing the line between north and south. The local controller then performs a kind of aerial ground movement control getting the inbounds to their stands whilst fitting in the departures. Phraseology is much abbreviated (and SRG approved) from MATS 1, eg. "Black black 6, gate 6" means "Black black 6 cleared to land runway 24 grass and taxi to stand 6, maintaining your own separatiion!" The colour is repeated to get round clipping R/T.

It was fairly quiet this year - you should've seen it in 1997 when we handled 4084 movements on the Sunday!

If you want any more info let me know.

[phnuff]

Surfing - thanks for the response. Actually I was there is 1997 (I am there most years) and I never cease to be amazed at the operation, but then juggling aircraft is I guess, business as usual for all ATC folks.

A job well done though, from interest, do you know the landing fee (for a warrior?) for race day. I suspect it is equivalent to a 3 bedroom house in Hertfordshire

[Miles Hi]

If it's Alicia Silverstone, with an awful lot of tender loving care!

[surfingatco]

If it's Alicia Silverstone, with an awful lot of tender loving care!
Boom boom! The old ones are the best :o)
do you know the landing fee (for a warrior?) for race day
No fixed wings have been allowed for a few years now, helicopters are at least £50 per passenger seat (filled or not!)

[rotatrim]

In previous years, some of the feeder sites have had an Air/Ground Radio Operator or FISO. I did it one year, but there seem to be fewer opportunities now, probably because movements are down.

Anyone care to suggest an appropriate rate of pay for feeder site A/G or FISO? Thinking of next year already!

[phnuff]

No fixed wings have been allowed for a few years now


eee - I think I would rather the wings be fixed on a warrior

Is the £50 per helicopter seat just to land and drop off, or is there parking on top

[dgutte]

Like Phnuff I was sat watching the helicopters landing from my seat in the Farm enclosure.

At times it reminded me of the Heathrow approach path with them being lined up for approach/landing.

Used most of my camcorder battery filming the damned things, such was my interest!

Dave

1st GP by the way. Still can't get the noise out of my head!

[Helibelly]

Did the helitele this year, ATC were again spot on, thanks guys see you next year.

[surfingatco]

Thanks helitele, appreciate the comments - I'll pass it on to the rest of the team

SA

[sycamore]

Thanks also from me,even though I only arrived and parked, and departed after the racing---- just couldn`t get to sleep in the back of the Jet-box, have to book one of the new "sleepers " for next year!! Thanks guys and gals !!!!!!:ok:

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

surfingatco,

Just out of interest, what are the air space restrictions around silverstone when the grand prix is on? From memory I seem to recall that the field lies in uncontrolled airspace and doesnt have an aerodrome traffic zone.

[surfingatco]

AIC 41/2004 gave details of the TRA, SFC - 2500ft (QNH) which was active on Saturday and Sunday. It extended about 1 mile beyond the Silverstone ATZ (yes they have one!) except for the Turweston ATZ. The nearest controlled airspace is the Daventry CTA, FL65 straight up!

SA

[airmail]

Now that Silverstone looks like it will be dropped from the Grand Prix Calendar (final decision on the 13/10), what does this mean for the UK helicopter market?

Many years ago I used to work for a large operator (no names but a number of sites in the South East) and they used to make somewhere in the region of 70% of their profits off the back of the Grand Prix weekend. Whilst this information may be out of date, if this is true across the UK, what will be the effects for the marketplace as a whole?

[sss]

bernie e tried to drop the ukgp last year,

he wants more money from brdc to run it, brdc dont want to pay bernie as much for the gp etc etc.

whilst i would rather see the gp binned and better quality racing in its place, i reckon it will still be back next year so i would not worry

[Eurobolkow]

An absolute disgrace and hot on the heels of the Jaguar and Cosworth sales not been a very good couple of weeks for motorsport in the UK and the midlands in particular.

Ecclestone is a didtator who needs to be stopped before he ruins the heritage of a once great sport.

Of couse this decision also impacts on many Helo operators although probably to a lesser extent than in years gone by as the pax numbers continue to fall as a direct result of road improvements.

The real question is why dont the UK based teams react by not racing, the public by not watching and the helo operators by not chartering aircraft to Bernie or his crew!!!

[headsethair]

Maybe you should change your handle to Eurobo**ocks. You are so wrong. F1 would have died years ago if Ecclestone hadn't grabbed it by the ears and turned it into a multi-million earner for the UK. Prior to the commercialisation of F1, it was all done out of backstreet garages, the prize money was not a reflection of the gate, and the tv networks were getting sport for nothing.

Facts are that the idiots who ran Silverstone prior to 2000 didn't invest in the future. They had a big warning with the traffic problems several years ago - and still they just kept wearing their BRDC blazers and ties and scoffed at Bernie.

The man's a ringmaster. If you don't like his circus, fine. There are plenty of places that welcome F1 with open arms and friendly governments.

I bet Silverstone is wishing Bernie had given more than £1m to Bliar's Bank.

Silverstone has always been a windswept hell-hole, run by prehistorics. This is now their come-uppance.

As for helis - well some of these companies deserve everything that's happening. The business practises of some UK operators over the years (in relation to Silverstone) have been disgusting.

[Governormalfunction]

IF it gets ditched from Silverstone, then where will the GP circus go?? Surely the Heli operators can move there for the foreseeable future?? Is that not the beauty of rotary?

[tagg]

I could be wrong but it was my impression that it would be the end of the British Grand Prix. Therefore the operators couldn`t go anywhere else. (Unless they wanted to travel to Europe)

[Flying Lawyer]

headsethair
No-one can deny Ecclestone's money-making acumen, but I share Eurobolkow's contempt for his methods.
It's true he put F1 on a more commercial footing, but he did so in a way which made himself a fortune (about £2.3 billion if the 2003 Times Rich List is even vaguely accurate) and has everyone else by the short and curlies. Any benefit to the sport was and is purely coincidental.
Of course he negotiated lucrative deals for television rights, but he gets the lion's share (53%) and the 10 teams get 4.7% each.
Sunday's Chinese Grand Prix was probably Ecclestone's biggest pay-day to date - $40m (£22.3m) - but the teams don't get a share of that.
By all means scoff at the BRDC, but the members are all current/former professional drivers, amateur drivers who've achieved distinction competing internationally and others who've made a significant contribution to British motorsport - and, in stark contrast to Ecclestone, they have a genuine concern for British motorsport. Perhaps you share Ecclestone's disdain for such old-fashioned values.
'Blazers and ties'? The image you're trying to portray went a long time ago, and the traffic problems which used to be horrendous have now also been resolved.
'Plenty of places that welcome F1 with open arms.' Silverstone is one of them; the BRDC is desperately trying to keep the British Grand Prix and struggling to raise the fantastic fee Ecclestone demands. They're prepared to run it at a loss, but they can't afford to keep making losses of the magnitude Ecclestone's fee involves or they'd go bust. This year's Grand Prix was a sell-out, but they still lost £3+ million by the time they paid Ecclestone.
'Friendly governments.' It's hardly the BRDC's fault that the British government won't subsidise the British GP in the way other governments subsidise theirs. The BRDC has been trying to persuade the goverment for years, but without success. Of course, if Ecclestone wasn't so greedy, there'd be no need for the British or other governments to subsidise their national Grand Prix.

You're right that F1 used to be run by 'backstreet garage' teams which didn't capitalise on the sport as much as they could/should have. Ecclestone's deals which offered them easy money must have seemed very attractive at the time. If they hadn't been so wrapped up in their enthusiasm for the sport, they would have realised his deals weren't quite as attractive as they appeared.


Governormalfunction
There is nowhere else.
The only other British circuit which can host a Grand Prix is Donington. The owner, Tom Wheatcroft, hosted one GP in 1993 to fulfil a long-held personal ambition, but I doubt if he could afford to do it annually.
The Brands Hatch circuit isn't suitable for modern F1. To make it suitable, and build the necessary infrastructure, would require an enormous investment.

[Governormalfunction]

so was the parade in the city just that? assuming the cost is not toooo bad, what would be the problem with a Monaco style GP? Surely long term the benefits would outweigh the initial outlay, or is this assuming an organisation not including Herr Ecclestone?

[ANOrak]

An excellent appraisal Flying Lawyer if I may say so - yes I keep a look out from the (rotary) wings - and I also agree with triple S that it will be back at Silverstone next year.
However, Formula 1 deserves to be a milkable cow because it is pretty unexciting when compared with most other classes of motor racing invloving enthusiasts and if Bernie can why shouldn't the rest of us?

ANOrak

:ok:

[Rot8tor]

Cor blimey ..... never understood why so many people paid so much pointless money for themselves or their clients to be able to rush out and glimpse tyresome noisesome machines zotting past them and then rush back into the hospitality tent to watch the rest of the race on the big video screen. And then that never ending howl of helicopters before and after the race. Enough to make you vote green.

[Governormalfunction]

Am I here?????????????????

I refer to a previous post.......was the parade in London just that??

Comments please.....

[headsethair]

FL: I admire your attempts to blame the teams. But the hard facts are that the loss of the GP is down to the relationship between Ecclestone and Silverstone. A match made in hell. He has never liked the place, nor the people. The only British promoter that he ever liked was John Webb who used to run the group of circuits which included Brands Hatch. (The GP used to alternate between Brands and Silverstone.)
But once John was gone, the GP went permanently to Silverstone because it was the only place in this whole kingdom that could offer what was needed at the time.
As for the London display - that's exactly what it was. The use of public property for commercial exposure - discuss. Ken Livingstone's re-election fund - discuss.
And isn't interesting how many heli people have an involvement with motorsport - or is it the other way ?
Keep up the great work you do FL. But on this one, we differ. (Probably because I once turned down membership of the BRDC!)

[Rotorbike]

Visited Qatar MotoGP qualifying yesterday. A circuit which has a grandstand and no access to the rest for the paying public. A grandstand that seats about 3500 in total. Which would have been lucky to have had 10% of that in yesterday!!

In comparision a Spanish MotoGP race would draw 200,000.

Oh and besides being hugely sponsored by the Qatari goverment is also the Marlboro Qatar Motorcycle Grand Prix.

Welcome to the commercial world where races aren't where you really want them to be!!!

[Hilico]

Governormalfunction - the London display was a stunt pure and simple. I'm sure a lot of people would like to see a 'London GP' (there was quite a lot of excitement about Birmingham years ago as well) but I can't see it happening. Why not?

1. Yes there is Monaco, but the drivers hate it. Few run-off areas and the penalty for a moment's slip is at best the instant end of their race. The only reasons for it still being on the calendar are tradition and the glamour that brings the sponsors out in droves, bigger droves than at any other F1 meeting.

2. You can shut Monaco's roads down for most of a week without harming its economy. Who can say what proportion of its residents' wealth is earned overseas? I can't either, but I bet it's huge. Contrast this with London, where the spread of wealth is much greater, and a week's lost business would drive a lot of the smaller places down the toilet.

3. Security. The authorities will issue dire warnings about the terrorist threat.

4. The condition of the road surface. I'm sure Jarvis, Amey, Carillon etc are all doing their best. That's the problem.

5. The law. Isn't this the reason we have the Isle of Mann TT and the roadracing in Ireland, but no such thing on the British mainland?

6. The lack of a tradition - 'it's never been done before'. It would take the drive and determination of somebody even more charismatic and monomaniacal than Ken Livingstone to bulldoze it through the above.

Agree? Disagree?

Actually I'm gutted I never got to Silverstone just to watch the heli operation. I wouldn't have flown in, even if I could have afforded it - several pilots said 'go by motorbike'.

[headsethair]

You're right - it takes an Act of Parliament to close roads in England. The London Marathon and others manage it because it's for a short time only - a GP would need a week of closures.
There's another reason why London will never happen - racetracks shouldn't have roads with severe crowns. This is why there were so many accidents in Birmingham. Did anyone see the Q session there when Jean Alesi launched his F3000 through a large advertising hoarding ?
All London roads have strong crowns for drainage.

[SilsoeSid]

Silverstone has never been one of my favourite tracks, because to visit as a spectator like so many others, the viewing positions are so poor. Its departure from the scene is in my eyes a good kick up the backside for the money grabbers. Unless you are willing to pay even more than the extortionate price for a decent grandstand position, it's at best a quick burst of noise, a flash of colour and who's next! Even if you do pay that price, you soon want to move around a bit to get a different view.

I have seen it admitted on TV, by one of Maxs boys, that its not for the spectator on circuit, its about TV, sponsors and courtesy facilities.

Whats wrong with building up the trackside with grassed areas much like at the open areas at Oulton Park / Thruxton / Croft ? This gives the paying public good views of a selection of 'likely action points'. Brands is a brilliant circuit for the spectator albeit on a big race day a bit too crowded, but unfortunately not up to scratch for F1.

If we remember, Spa was cancelled as a F1 venue which was criminal, enjoyed by drivers and spectators alike. I had the fortune to go for a weekend a couple of years ago with my son and we had a good F1 experience. Tickets available at the entrance, access all round track and you could see the track! Not too crowded,(as in a good crowd/area ratio), refreshment areas decent toilets etc etc all for the spectator on circuit. Much in the same vein as Brands with it's woods and if needed 'quiet' areas.
Zandvoort again in the early 80's was similar. Sandbanked dune viewing areas, good facilities, etc .

Nurburgring, (another dad/son weekend), like Silverstone, not a spectators event, in fact an experience that put me off seeing F1 live again. Extortionate ticket price, caged off crowded areas that the ticket gave you access to only, flat viewing areas so unless you were at the front or on someones shoulders, you could only at best, give the race a good listening. But according to those in the know a brilliant circuit.....yea right, go there as a punter!. Maybe in the old days of the long circuit.

Monaco, as a family weekend brilliant, relive the circuit incidents. (I bought a postcard just across from where Schumey crashed in the tunnel.) But don't even think of going race week! Undeniably a magical circuit and any attempt to emulate it in London or Birmingham will just fall flat on its face. F3, FF, TOCA ok but not F1

Fortunately Spa is back, as I expect Silverstone will be after not too long , BUT, only because nowhere else will be allowed to host F1 in Britain.

Flying Lawyer, what's wrong with Rockingham?

The BRDC themselves have probably caused all the hard feeling, by not allowing BE to become one of their members.

This said F1 should never not have a British venue even if it must be Silverstone. Even if it doesn't host F1 again,no loss, just go to the Goodwood Revival (http://www.goodwood.co.uk/revival/) weekend!

A blatant plug;
If you want to get involved, see as much of the action as possible close up, can spare the odd day during the season and look good in orange, why not become a marshal?
Do as much or as little as you can and help motorsport continue.
Race, sprint, rally all forms of motorsport need marshals.
For more info the BMMC website is here (http://www.marshals.co.uk/)

To get back on the thread topic, I guess it will be one less venue and considering the amount of traffic for the weekends activities, a substantial blow for the industry perhaps.

[Flying Lawyer]

Headsethair
As you well know, I don't blame the teams for this problem. The dispute is nothing to do with them; I described the circumstances in which they were stitched up only to counter your comments about Ecclestone's contributions to F1.

At least we're agreed on one thing. You wrote "But the hard facts are that the loss of the GP is down to the relationship between Ecclestone and Silverstone. A match made in hell. He has never liked the place, nor the people." A couple of days ago, in a similar discussion in Jetblast, I wrote "The real issues are the fantastic sums Ecclestone demands and the 'politics' between Ecclestone and the BRDC which go back a very long way .......... Ecclestone and the BRDC have a completely different attitude to British motorsport, and clashes of personality between him and certain key members who run the BRDC don't help." We'll have to agree to disagree about the BRDC. Although I don't think they're blameless, they've always had to cope with Ecclestone's loathing of them and his power to make them squirm.

I'd put 50p on a late addition to next year's calendar when Ecclestone's had his fun making the BRDC beg.


Sid
Unfortunately, it's not the money-grabber who's getting "a good kick up the backside". He has a monopoly and simply grabs his money elsewhere - his calendar is full.
The prices of decent grandstand seats seems extortionate, but the BRDC has no choice but to charge them. Even with a sell-out at very high prices, the club still loses millions because of what they have to pay Ecclestone to host the Grand Prix.
The club can't make any money from trackside advertising because he has control of that, and they get nothing from the televising fees - 53% to Ecclestone and 4.7% each to the teams.

I don't know enough about Rockingham to comment.

[SilsoeSid]

From here (http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news/newswire.php/news/pa/2004/09/30/uknews/britishgpdroppedfromf1.html&template=/news/feeds/pa_story_template.html) ;

"Ecclestone reportedly wanted £8.9 million from the BRDC but was thought to have been offered a figure around £3 million less than that, which BRDC chief executive Alex Hooton said was based on "sane economics".

" He has omitted the race, which this year was a 100,000 sell-out, from his provisional 2005 calendar."

With a list of ticket prices forecast for the 2005 Silverstone event, from this source (http://f1-gpt.com/cart_phase_1.asp?race_id=40) being;

Gold 1-Abbey (Fri-Sun) £219.00
Gold 1-Club (Fri-Sun) £219.00
Gold 1-Copse E (Fri-Sun) £219.00
Gold 1-Stowe A/B/C (Fri-Sun) £219.00
Gold 2-Becketts Outside (Fri-Sun) £249.00
Gold 2-Copse D (Fri-Sun) £249.00
Gold 2-Hangar (Fri-Sun) £249.00
Gold 3-Copse B (Fri-Sun) £259.00
Gold 3-Luffield A/B/C (Fri-Sun) £259.00
Gold 3-Pit Straight 1/A (Fri-Sun) £259.00
Gold 3-Woodcote A/B (Fri-Sun) £259.00
Gold 4-Pit Straight A (Fri-Sun) £299.00
Gold 4-Pit Straight B (Fri-Sun) £299.00
Gold 4-Copse A (Fri-Sun) £299.00
Gold 1/2/3/4-Child (Fri-Sun) £159.00
Silver-Bridge Enclosure (Fri-Sun) £189.00
Silver-Farm Enclosure (Fri-Sun) £189.00
Silver-Child Bridge/Farm Enclosure (Fri-Sun) £99.00
Bronze-General Admission (Fri-Sun) £149.00
Bronze-Child General Admission (Fri-Sun) £79.00
VIP Silverstone Club (Fri-Sun) £429.00

Even if all the sellout 100,000 crowd just came in as general admissions children @ £79 that brings in £7.9 million.

With the average ticket price being £189.50 this gives the BRDC the princely sum of £18.95 million.

If the BRDC gave BE what he wanted, where does the other £10 million plus go?

By the way, marshals get paid purely the pleasure of being involved, not even a cup of tomato soup!

For Rockingham, read Indianapolis without the woopin' and a hollerin' !

[headsethair]

SiloeSid: Good figures. Good question. You're not related to Silverstone Sid, are you ?

FL : "If they hadn't been so wrapped up in their enthusiasm for the sport, they would have realised his deals weren't quite as attractive as they appeared."

That reads like at least partial blame to me.

Meanwhile, back in rotorworld.

[Flying Lawyer]

headsethair

My attempt at irony obviously failed.
You're not partly American are you? ;)
I meant they were wrapped up in going motor-racing (a passion for the sport); he set up the schemes to make his fortune out of the sport.

(Still nothing to do with the Ecclestone v BRDC dispute.)

Sid
A businessman could answer your question about where the money goes far better than I can. Costs which occur to me off the top of my head include:
providing the infrastructure for a Grand Prix (and not just for the public days at the weekend),
wages of additional security/medical/emergency and other staff,
insurance premiums (especially public liability given the nature of the sport),
servicing the debts incurred in maintaining the circuit, constantly improving facilities, making changes required by F1.

Silverstone, like many other circuits, was a former wartime airfield. Whatever its shortcomings, compare its facilities with any of the other converted wartime airfields where virtually nothing is been spent other than on (occasionally) resurfacing the tarmac.
When I raced Formula Renault, we went around the various circuits as part of the Touring Cars 'circus'. Facilities at every other circuit varied between basic and non-existent, and even the track could have benefitted from resurfacing. egSnetterton, Thruxton, Pembrey. Brands was way ahead of the others, but still far behind Silverstone. It all costs major money.

The fact is the BRDC is a club, the objectives of which include promoting the interests of British motorsport, furthering the interests of British drivers competing abroad and giving financial assistance to young British 'stars of tomorrow' to help them further their driving careers.
I realise some people think such high ideals are old-fashioned and have no place in the modern world where 'sport' is now part of the multi-billion dollar entertainment business. They might think a club run by unpaid volunteers, whatever their or it's history, ought to face reality and give up trying to hold a Grand Prix in Britain because the club simply can't afford it.
Maybe they're right? It's an arguable point of view, and one which Bernie Ecclestone holds, but I'd be very sad to see it happen.

[SilsoeSid]

FlyingLawyer, interesting you should say;

"The fact is the BRDC is a club, the objectives of which include promoting the interests of British motorsport, furthering the interests of British drivers competing abroad and giving financial assistance to young British 'stars of tomorrow' to help them further their driving careers."

The Royal Automobile Club (http://www.royalautomobileclub.co.uk/) also has the interests of motorsport at heart;
In April 1900, Claude Johnson organised the 1000 Miles Trial. This event more than any other put motoring on the map as far as Britain was concerned.
In 1905, the Club organised the first Tourist Trophy (TT) race. This is therefore the oldest race regularly run. The Club became the governing body for motor sport in Britain.
The Club has long had the interests of the private motorist at heart and campaigned vigorously for the 1903 Motor Act, which increased speed limits and removed other restrictive legislation.
In 1905, it introduced driving certificates, a responsibility which was not to be taken over by the government for another thirty years.
In 1913, Woodcote Park near Epsom racecourse, was purchased as a Country Club.
In 1926, it organised the first British Grand Prix at Brooklands.

The link between the Royal Automobile Club and motorsport is undisputable, however, please visit the website and see for yourself where perhaps the membership money goes !

I for one cancelled my RAC membership (£201) as I was told by the 'office', you're not a full member of the RAC despite what it says on you card. Hence; not eligible for any share handout, unlike the full members (£604), funnily enough a lot of whom are the BRDC gang!

What has this to do with the BRDC?

Where does all their money go?

The aim of the BRDC, I put to you, is much as it was when it started; taken from; (http://www.brdc.co.uk/aboutus.cfm)

The founder of the BRDC, Dr. J. D. Benjafield, one of the famed 'Bentley Boys' at Le Mans, was keen to organise dinner parties after races for his friends and drivers. It was these dinner parties which were the seeds from which grew the highly prestigious and much respected British Racing Drivers' Club that we know today.

The Club was inaugurated in April 1928, with twenty-five members and a clear set of objectives. These were to promote the interests of motor sport generally; to celebrate any specific performance in motor sport; to extend hospitality to racing drivers from overseas; and to further the interests of British drivers competing abroad.

Promote interests, celebrate, hospitality and further the interests abroad....the old boys club.

I don't mean this to be a dig at the BRDC, however when there is so much bleating going on about how the Gov't needs to help them out, as other countries do it's a bit hard being no being sceptical as to the true motivation.

For now it seems that baiting BE is the name of the game as he seems to meet the membership criteria, but they won't allow him in.

Keeps your friends close, but your enemies even closer.:suspect:

[airmail]

Ladies and Gents

Whilst all of the above is interesting, I refer you to the original question that I posed, namely how will the loss of the British GP affect the UK Helicopter Operators and, therefore, both current professional pilots and future wannabees.

If my original figures are correct (and as nobody has disputed them I have to assume that they are there or there abouts), then surely this decision will have severe repercussions in the future.

Whether or not people agree with the BRDC or Ecclestone is, in this instance, immaterial. It's what will happen to the the helicopter industry that is surely more important?

[Jed A1]

Ladies and Gents,

First let me say, that this is one of the better debates I have come across on this forum.

Secondly, that I believe there is no doubt that that the removal of a British Grand Prix will severely hurt the helicopter industry in the UK.

Thirdly, there is absolutely no doubt that there will be a British Grand Prix in 2005. If not at Silverstone, then somewhere else.

Hence no overall damage to the UK Helicopter industry!

Time for contact negotiations. Who is calling whose bluff?

[SilsoeSid]

Jed,

I think we agree that if Silverstone is off for 2005 then there is nowhere in the UK that can come up to scratch in time for the July 10th weekend.

It's not just a matter of location, which itself has to be FIA approved, of which there is nowhere else in the UK, but the whole shooting match involved with the 'circus' coming to town. A good couple of years planning and restructuring would be needed as opposed to simply a quick venue change!

So of course this will have an effect to the industry especially if some companies rely on the F1 weekend so much.

SS

[sss]

the british gp cant run anywhere else, doni is the only real competition in the uk but it would need a fair amount done to it to get it up to scratch, as would the approach roads etc,

rockingham, very nice idea, but needs to be managed better to get the full potential out of the place, but not up to f1 spec.

the london display, well what a waste of time and road racing wont be back on the mainland again. although it would be nice,

like i say i reckon it will be on at silverstone once the bickering has finished.

(and as for marshals, good fun but dont bother with the bmmc. its a good way to see racing without paying for a ticket)

[ppheli]

Most people seem to think this is a F1 bulletin board, having failed to read the original question. :ok:

Of course the lack of a British GP would affect the British helicopter industry, but if any company relies on that event for survival, then "commercial pressures" will ensure they fall by the wayside and leave the better-run companies flying. I suspect we may lose one or two in this way. Natural Selection, Suvival of the Fittest, call it what you will.

[Eurobolkow]

Good debate even if it is slightly off the point. The answer to the question asked is that there will be an effect on the Heli industry if the GBGP is cancelled, however it will be significantly less than had it occured even 5 years ago.

Headsethair: 'You are so wrong' does not consitute a reasoned arguement when a person is expressing an opinion!!

The fact of the matter is that Ecclestone has already been paid a settlement for the hosting of the event (reported as circa £60million) and thus he is actually looking to be paid twice.

Bernie may have modernised F1 and turned it into a commercial machine but to what end?? Is the racing better than it was 15 years ago?

Silverstone, Spa, Imola all under pressure from a new breed of super circuit. What next, Monaco?

[Helipolarbear]

Take a heliride down to your local and watch the racing on the big plasma screen..................it's better value all round!;)

[OFBSLF]

Bernie may have modernised F1 and turned it into a commercial machine but to what end??To what end? Lining Bernie's pockets, of course. That's the prime directive of F1 these days. Everything else is secondary.

[Head Turner]

If you are a helicopter company worried about the F1 etc then why in hell don't you get across the water and do business in Euroland. It's a big place now and lots of untapped revenues. Please don't comment on how difficult it could be, just go out and make a market.

BE has made money sure, but he has taken F1 along where it would have failed. Enough said on this extended debate.

[SilsoeSid]

According to the D.Mail it seems that the British Govt will be making up the gap and paying for the GP to be on the 2005 calendar.

So the helicopter industry it seems just had a close shave on this one.

Does this mean that us humble tax payers will get a discount, not that I would go anyway. How do non F1 fans feel about their money going there.

I would like to go on about the BRDC dinner club lining their pockets once more, thanks to the Govt, but at least it's good for the local economy to the tune apparently, in the region of £14mill.

Final announcement due tomorrow.

[AlanM]

Fingers crossed - and with there being no Royal Ascot in 2005, Battersea will have their toes crossed as well I guess.... :)

[Col]

No surprise here then...

"The British Grand Prix is on the 2005 Formula One calendar pending a rights deal. " bbc

[SilsoeSid]

But the gentlemans Club hasn't signed anything yet!

[Banjo]

Talks Breakdown.

according to the BBC breakfast news this morning the talks have fallen down and there will be no British Grand Prix in 2005.

Oh well....better start planning the BBQ and drinks for the weekend off.

[b.borg]

Ecclestone rules out British GP (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/3742034.stm)

[RS2]

Hi,

Im looking for a bit of information re the helicopter operations for the British Grand Prix.

Can you tell me (by PM's if you prefer) who looks after / is responsible for the operations of the Silverstone Heliports during the GP weekend and ATC at the Heliport during that period.

Also Im looking for details of some of the companies who operate into there and the different types they operate, would ideally like a range of types ie. Singles & twin along with some of the heavier types that also operate shuttles, such as the Puma.

Any help would be most welcome, and please excuse me if I dont reply right away as I only get to log in about once a week..

And one final question whilst I think about it, are any of the other large public spectator events as busy with rotary operations - Cowes, Henley Regatta, Cheltenham Gold Cup etc etc. Ive experienced the GP first hand but not the others.

Thanks again.

[paco]

I know Peter Rover is their Aviation Adviser, and its run by the guy who used to be in charge of Battersea (filofax not nearby at the moment!).

Just about every company gets involved, so look in the BHAB handbook and ask them.

The other events are not nearly as busy or so well organised - they are one of the most professional teams I know.

Phil

[Simon853]

I believe CabAir and another operator out of Cranfield do a lot of shuttles into Silverstone over the GP weekend, though there's probably others from further afield.

Si

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<And one final question whilst I think about it, are any of the other large public spectator events as busy with rotary operations - Cowes, Henley Regatta, Cheltenham Gold Cup etc etc. Ive experienced the GP first hand but not the others.>>

Epsom and Ascot for racing are extremely busy. The ATC at these and other such events used to be run by a guy I worked with at West Drayton but I believe he has retired.

[Jesters]

Most of the rotary operators get involved in Silverstone, but most operate from temporary sites in fields surrounding the Silverstone area. I know only one operates from Kidlington Airport and they are one of the largest operations on the day. A number of operators also do special shuttles from private sites and Battersea for clients who will pay for it! But as PACO says, just call up some operators and ask them, or check out their websites.

Just about every helicopter type gets involved. The larger S61's and Super Puma's from the north sea and Scilly's are hired out by the operators and come down for the weekend and there are also R44's buzzing in, along with everything in between depending on what is available.

I believe that Silverstone set up their own operating team for the weekend, but they are fantastic both in the build up and over the weekend.

The operations to other events, Chelt GC, Ascot etc are nowhere near as big due to less demand, although they do operate. Cheltenham GC is operated by a company called Helicopter & Aviation Services, or something similar, who run an events team.

J

[Billywizz]

Elite helicopters operate at Silverstone and Farnboro Air show

Geko air are another who run at some events

[AlanM]

Elite helicopters operate at Silverstone and Farnboro Air show

Most of the ATCO's at Silverstone are NATS employees earning some extra cash working directly for Elite.

All of the ATCO's at the Farnboro' Pad are NATS employees who do it for no extra cash as a detachment for NATS.

[Droopy]

Have a look at here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=137280&highlight=silverstone)

[Heliport]

Are any of the other large public spectator events as busy with rotary operations? I don't think there's anywhere in the UK as busy with helicopter ops as Silverstone on Grand Prix day.

[paddyboy]

I'm sure I've read it's the busiest airport in the world on race day...

[RS2]

Thanks for all the repiles and the info.

I did I suppose realise that most heli companies get involved in one way or another at the GP, as a few years ago I was lucky enough to be flown in and experienced it first hand. What I was interested in was who used the larger types S61 and Puma and if these operated from AIrfields or tempoarary sites.

The other info I was after was a contact for those responsible for ATC.

Thanks for your help, I will follow up the info you have already provided.

Cheers
RS2

[Jimbo1]

Can somebody please give me details of the company running the Helipad at Silverstone this year?

thanks

[Tony Chambers]

I have clients interested in attending the GP05 i am looking for information on who is operating this year and from which sites. I think its just the southern helipad being operated this year but if anyone as information that can help me it would be appreciated.
Many Thanks

[copterfamily]

try Patriot Aviation out of Cranfield. They usually operate.

[Bravo73]

Try ANY of the UK commercial operators. Most usually operate.


(Numbers in the BHAB Handbook).



Regards,

B73

[HeliEng]

Tony,

For someone local-ish to you. Try Elite Helicopters at Goodwood.







"Mad as a mooing fish!"

[Tony Chambers]

Just trying to find out who is operating the feeder sites on race day and the locations of the feeder sites. Thanks for any info.

[Camp Freddie]

Hey Mr Chambers,

you mention that you think that only the southern helipad will be used this year,

what is your source for that information, as this would mean mixing the big stuff with the Jetboxes :confused:

regards

CF

[magbreak]

His info on the southern helipad only is correct. There was a meeting in the last couple of weeks between BHAB and Silverstone regarding it.

They sent out some info showing the mixing of types on the southern side over the last three years or so and the mix this year is no different.

Tony, try Geko. They operate Finmere airfield.

Found the letter regarding the drop to one heliport:

In 2004 there were 1431 movements overall – of which 810 used the Southern heliport. The Southern traffic mix consisted of 2 Pumas, 5 S76, 1 B222, 2 EC135, 10 A109, 16 AS355, 1 MD600, 6 AS350, 4 Long Rangers, 2 EC120 and 10 Jet Rangers.

Looking back over my reports for the years I find four occasions when the Southern side dealt with more than 1500 movements. There are they – together with the actual mix of types.

1997 – 1616 movements 12 S61, 4 Pumas, 2 B214, 16 S76, 1 Dauphin, 2 B222, 1 A109, 14 AS355, 1 B407, 4 AS350, 1 Long Ranger, 13 Jet Rangers, 1 H500, 1 R22

1998 – 1652 movements 10 S61, 15 Pumas, 1 B214, 16 S76, 2 Dauphins, 2 B222, 2 A109, 18 AS355, 1 B407, 4 AS350, 16 Jet Rangers, 3 H500, 1 R44

1999 – 1658 movements 10 S61, 14 Pumas, 1 B214, 22 S76, 2 Dauphins, 2 B222, 3 A109, 17 AS355, 1 B407, 1 B430, 5 AS350, 1 Gazelle, 1 Long Ranger, 8 Jet Rangers, 1 H500

2001 – 1573 movements 5 S61, 1 Puma, 1 B214, 18 S76, 3 Dauphins, 1 B222, 2 EC135, 4 A109, 27 AS355, 2 Bo105, 2 B407, 9 AS350, 1 Long Ranger, 9 Jet Rangers

A maximum allocated movement rate for the Southern operation has long been – and will be retained at – 44 movements per 15 minute period (a movement being either a landing or a take-off). Given a five-hour acceptance period (0700 to 1200 BST) pre-race and a similar post-race departure period, a potential acceptance of 1760 movements exists but high demand for slots avoids the earlier and later availabilities.

A carefully reasoned assessment of the current year’s demand suggests a movement total of between 1400 and 1500.

Put absolutely bluntly, there really is no change to that which has taken place on the Southern heliport for a decade – either in terms of numbers or mix of helicopter types. The largest types have dwindled very significantly. This year just two Pumas are expected. Light types, such as the Jet Ranger have proliferated on the Southern side over the years due largely to request by the operators themselves who use feeder sites dominantly situated to the south of Silverstone. The very few lightest types are to be segregated from any heavies by allowing them in during a strictly limited half-hour period between 0715 and 0745 BST. What is more, the very light types and any non-shuttle participants will be parked and handled on the grass strip (Gemini) which is on the northern side of the tarmac FATO – albeit they will use Southern procedures like everyone else for their approach and landing.