Qantas - Distasteful?

[Sunfish]

Qantas has announced its 2005 profit projection is even higher than 2004.

At the same time it appears its Board and CEO seem to be losing touch with reality, or are they?

To me there are a number of logical disconnects in its business strategy.

1. Continually pressuring its staff on wage cuts and EBA's - by crying poor while making record profits. Announcing a plan to offshore 7000 jobs and a week later increasing its profit projections.

I would have thought this must have a negative effect on staff morale.

2. The Jetstar Asia thing - which is apparently already running into trouble.


I guess my concern is that Qantas has the lions share of capacity into and out of Australia - a left over from Government ownership. Its profits come not from being more efficient, or having smarter management than other airlines, but from its monopoly of capacity.

As a result, Qantas is a highly political animal with very very strong ties to NSW governments of all persuasions, a a fact that has concerned me for a very long time because of its implications for regional airservices and regional development.

I also note that Qantas's largest shareholder is hidden by a nominee company.

While I admit to being entranced by conspiracy theories since the days of working for murdoch/abeles at AN, I cannot but wonder if Australian QF staff, Qantas Shareholders in general and the Australian public are being set up?

By this I mean :- QF staff, your jobs will be outsourced to the lowest tenderer.

QF shareholders: You may be in for a rocky ride. I wonder if a "takeover" offer might surface one day? Maybe even taking QF private?

The general public: We are already paying premium prices for a less than average product, we have done it for thirty years at least. How long is the QF monopoly going to be allowed to continue?

Given the totally complaisant nature of the Howard Government, and the fact that the PM is still a NSW politician, as is Anderson, I expect we are all going to get royally screwed. The QF Board has very strong political connections - and the means to use it.

My predictions: - Singapore will get the minimum capacity on the Pacific route to keep the Singaporean Government happy, if they get anything at all.

Jetstar Asia? My guess is it will be a financial disaster, unless of course Singapore and Qantas do a deal (see item 1.)

QF Australian staff? You are going to get screwed over yet again - dont bother to tell the media, they are in bed with QF.


A380? Even though Melbourne Airport will be ready before Sydney, just watch QF's efforts to ensure that no one flies an A380 to MEL, especially before SYD is ready. You should have heard Max the Axe talking on radio the other day about this, talk about a true son of Sydney!

P.S. Question for QF Will it be possible to run an A380 into and out of Australia WITHOUT passing through Sydney for a TFC or equivalent? My guess is not bloody likely.

[Capt Fathom]

Qantas will always try to avoid MEL, because they love to watch Sunfish blow his top. :E

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Sunfish, the first four A380's are scheduled to do the Pacific runs including the LAX-Mel directs.

But let's not let that spoil a good rant.

A sunfish never changes is spots?

[HANOI]

Sunfish

Announcing a plan to offshore 7,000 jobs

The 7,000 figure did not come from QF. No 'target has been set and no decisions have been made.

monopoly of capacity

Still waiting for you to tell us where this monoploy is .

(concern about) implications for regional airservices and regional development

Seven new DH8- Q300's delivered to QantasLink last year and another seven DH8 - Q400's plus 10 options just ordered in biggest ever order for the QF regional airline. Don't think you need concern yourself there.

How long is the QF monopoly going to be allowed to continue

As above , still waiting for you to tell us where this monopoly is. perhaps you could indicate on what routes.

The announced A380 LAX - MEL service answers your question to QF.

Since your arrival on this forum you have unmercilessly lashed QF with misinformation and somewhat weird conspiracy theories. One would have thought that with your self proclaimed ex - CEO status you would have some idea of business management practices.

You have told us that you had not flown on QF for three years , have you managed to aquaint yourself recently with the product you so vigourously deride.

[Johhny Utah]

Gee, who would have thought that Australia's oldest city, situated in Australia's largest state population wise (roughly 1/4 of Australia's population) would receive most of the services coming in from overseas...? :rolleyes: Especially given that it is a premier toursit destination in its own right as one of the worlds most photogenic cities....:rolleyes:

I'd suggest it's time you GET OVER IT Sunfish - go & do some study for your PPL...;)

[Area QNH is...]

Sunfish,

What do you hate more? Qantas or Sydney?

You appear to have a bad case of 'little melbourne syndrome' and it's starting to get boring!

[schnauzer]

I believe we are all in agreement.;)

Sunfish, you are an idiot.:uhoh:

[one ball]

Not quite....

Allow me to add my bit. Two bits actually:Qantas has the lions share of capacity into and out of Australia Yes you're absolutely right slumfish. The gov't should ensure our other international carrier gets an equal share. And they would be??? Keerist. :rolleyes: Or maybe the gov't should ensure a foreign competitor is given a bigger slice of the action than has already been lost?

What are you on man???

The corporation that slumfish was the CEO of: (http://www.melanconent.com/catsup/index.html)

Must be a non-VMC day down at the dero club... :rolleyes:




PS: If ya gonna troll, at least make it something funny.

[Keg]

Sunfish, I've often enjoyed a lot of your posts. You seem to know a bit about the marketing and management side of things and your comments have been the occasional wake up call for both the management side of the airline industry (if they bother reading) and the pilot/unionised side of the airline industry (if they bother comprehending what they read).

However, this rant does you no justice and this constant harping on about QF being 'sydney centric' or 'monopolising' the airways has got to stop. Last I checked (about 18 months ago), QF had less than 40% of the inbound traffic to Australia. You may want to compare that with SQ's figures for Singapore, Malaysia's figures for them and Thai's figures for Thailand. I think you'd find that QF has more competition than any of them.

As for being 'sydney centric', I'm not sure how that explains that a bunch of my trips next roster have me positioning to ADL, PER, BNE and MEL to operate services that originate from there. I think we serve most states in Australia pretty well. I'd like to see us do better on some (ADL-HKG, ADL-SIN direct instead of via DRW, ADL-BLI, ADL-Tasman although I think we've started a few of those!) and so on) but I reckon we give most destinations a fair shake.

Anyway, you need to chill a bit more, take the anti Sydney and QF chip off the shoulder and have a wider look at the industry.

(You are however spot on about the moral at QF. Not flash and not going north anytime soon! :( )

[The Enema Bandit]

Gee whiz Scumfish, do you get the impression that you're about as popular as Fred Nile at a wife swapping party??

[Fris B. Fairing]

And let's not forget:

RIP Ansett. I'd just like to see Qantas disembowelled the same way.

Sunfish
11 Sep 04

[bushy]

Dont worry. Air NZ will buy qantas very soon.!!!!!

[DJ737]

Dont worry. Air NZ will buy qantas very soon.!!!!!

No they won't, SQ has the cheque book open :p

DJ737

The Roo Rooter :E :ok:

[hoss]

I thought this topic was going to be about crew meals:)

[Sunfish]

Jeez, that got you stirred up.

Hanoi, 40% share constitutes a monopoly position in any industry because the rest is spread about through multiple small players in the Australian market. So yes, Qantas has a dominant market position.

I have no qualms about Sydney being a nice city, however I would like to make my point below:

Try looking at Qantas's North American website and try and schedule direct flights from any place to Melbourne and Sydney.

Take for example, leaving LAX for MEL and SYD on 26th January returning 23 rd February

this is what you get for Sydney

Los Angeles to Sydney - return for 1 adult
Total Price*
(USD)

Date

Flight

From

To

Duration

Aircraft

Fare Class
$1068.11

Wed 26 Jan 05
Qantas flight QF012
Los Angeles
22:30 Sydney
08:00 (Fri) 14h 30m
747-400
Economy restricted
Wed 23 Feb 05
Qantas flight QF107
Sydney
12:35 Los Angeles
07:00 13h 25m
747-400
Economy restricted
$1068.11

Wed 26 Jan 05
Qantas flight QF012
Los Angeles
22:30 Sydney
08:00 (Fri) 14h 30m
747-400
Economy restricted
Wed 23 Feb 05
Qantas flight QF011
Sydney
15:20 Los Angeles
09:45 13h 25m
747-400
Economy restricted
$1068.11

Wed 26 Jan 05
Qantas flight QF108
Los Angeles
23:45 Sydney
09:15 (Fri) 14h 30m
747-400
Economy restricted
Wed 23 Feb 05
Qantas flight QF107
Sydney
12:35 Los Angeles
07:00 13h 25m
747-400
Economy restricted
$1068.11

Wed 26 Jan 05
Qantas flight QF108
Los Angeles
23:45 Sydney
09:15 (Fri) 14h 30m
747-400
Economy restricted
Wed 23 Feb 05
Qantas flight QF011
Sydney
15:20 Los Angeles
09:45 13h 25m
747-400
Economy restricted
$3055.14

Wed 26 Jan 05
Flight operated by another carrier QF3060
Los Angeles
18:30 Honolulu
22:23 29h 30m
767-300
Economy


Qantas flight QF004
Honolulu
11:55 (Thu) Sydney
19:00 (Fri) 747-300
Economy restricted
Wed 23 Feb 05
Qantas flight QF107
Sydney
12:35 Los Angeles
07:00 13h 25m
747-400
Economy restricted
$3055.14

Wed 26 Jan 05
Flight operated by another carrier QF3060
Los Angeles
18:30 Honolulu
22:23 29h 30m
767-300
Economy


Qantas flight QF004
Honolulu
11:55 (Thu) Sydney
19:00 (Fri) 747-300
Economy restricted
Wed 23 Feb 05
Qantas flight QF011
Sydney
15:20 Los Angeles
09:45 13h 25m
747-400
Economy restricted.

For Melbourne you get "we cannot find a solution for this itinerary".

From conversations with a few friends overseas over a number of years I find it is hard, if not impossible to get direct flights to and from any capital city without passing through Sydney inbound or outbound - yes there are direct flights, but they are always full well in advance.

The net effect of this is a skewing of overseas investment dollars into NSW at the expense of the rest of the country because after 20+ hours in an aircraft ANYONE will get off ANYWHERE.

To put it another way folks. If for some bizarre reason Qantas was hubbing out of Hobart, then that state would have the lions share of overseas investment.

By the way, nobody has yet directly answered my previous question or contradicted me. Is it possible for any Qantas AC to arrive and leave australia without going through Sydney for a maintenance check? What about the A380 as well? If it isn't, then it proves my point.

[schnauzer]

Sunfish? WHOGARR. (Who Gives A Rodents Rectum.)

Face reality mate.

I think that you are about to take the "Idiot of the Week Award" from Mr Qantas.....

[Chronic Snoozer]

The QANTAS monopoly is on PpRuNe. (Dunnunda & GZ) At least 90% of the threads are about this airline.

[Icarus2001]

Sunfish you asked...Is it possible for any Qantas AC to arrive and leave australia without going through Sydney for a maintenance check?

What does it matter? That is like asking if VB aircraft can avoid going to Brisbane for maintenance.

[Sunfish]

Yes it does matter, and no one will answer my question.

It mattered when I was told that Qantas had a monopoly on 747 turnarounds (unless you were Singapore, Malaysian, Cathay or Air NZ) because it meant that every European or American AC had to go through Sydney on the way in, or the way out of Australia.

The three hour stop in Sydney biased foriegn investment NSW's way because people from New York and London were effectively being told the Melbourne and Brisbane (Let alone Adelaide) were three hours further away from the power centers of the globe than Sydney.

The reaction to my humble suggestion that AN break this monopoly and invest a little more when tooling up for the 767 was met with EXTREME anxiety by AN management I was simply told "Abeles will have our balls if we try to break the QF monopoly". You want a statutory declaration?

Listening to Max the Axe last week about the A380 preparations confirms this QF centric attitude is alive and well because it is the only good reason overseas investors have for locating a business in Sydney.

[Area QNH is...]

Listening to Max the Axe last week about the A380 preparations confirms this QF centric attitude is alive and well because it is the only good reason overseas investors have for locating a business in Sydney.

Sounds like a case of sour grapes to me!

I'm sure you would have no problem with the "QF centric attitude" if they were based out of Melbourne!? :)

[schnauzer]

And the PPRUNE "Idiot of the Week Award" goes to....

Scumfish!!!

For not shutting up when he should have.:mad:

[Sunfish]

Bad Dog!

Of course I would Luuuuv to inflict a Qantas hub in Melbourne on the rest of Australia. (Not)


Still no one answers the question or contradicts me. Obviously that answers my question.

[applehead]

Sunfish

We are but humble pilots, why waste your time posting (very) high-level management conspiracies here? You may as well post them on the professional aircraft cleaners rumour network.

Fact is, we don't give a sh!t about anything you write, you are a middle aged, angry little man who didn't follow his dream (or couldn't?) of flying heavy jets and now you want to mix it with us, and this is only way you can. How pathetic. (and please don't try to refute this - I really don't care)

Go and call the PM, John Anderson or Geoff Dixon, these are the only people who can provide answers to your constant tripe. Go on sunfish, sign some stat decs and post them up here, we could all do with laughing our arses off for a minute or two. I say again, you are completely wasting your time here, but then again, you already know that.

[BTW Tony, I wouldn't keep trying to justify anything to this bloke, if career longevity is your goal! Cheers)

[Sunfish]

Gee Applebrain,

Why Yes, while I am a boring old fart, you flatter yourself outrageaously by assuming I want to mix it with you. I'll leave the next obvious retort out to keep Woomeri happy.

I am concerned about what happens to Qantas because of its inordinate effects on Tourism and industry development in this country - and that means ALL PARTS of Australia.

Direct airline connections are an important part of attracting International companies to particular locations. My simple contention that if Qantas is supposed to be allowed the priviledge of being a national flag carrier then it should ensure it operates in the national interest and not, as it currently is, the plaything of the Sydney push.

Obviously this subject enrages you because as of yet, nobody has contradicted me or provided an adequate answer.

[Area QNH is...]

Sunfish,

What about airlines in other countries?
Thai Airways, Singapore Airlines etc...
Don't they operate out of one major hub in their respective countries?

A serious question. If you were running QF, how would you structure the company to ensure it met the interests of ALL Australians?

[Kaptin M]

the plaything of the Sydney push. What is it with you Melbournians (and to a lesser extent the Sydneyites)?

The main base for Ansett (RIP) and TAA was Melbourne.
Sydney has been the QANTAS base since Adam was a boy - it was Longreach when he was in nappies, and will probably be DELHI or JAKARTA if Dixon gets his way.

Get over it, Sunfish, Melbourne is a long way from being anywhere near the spoke of an Australian hub, whilst Sydney is midway between there and the booming State of Queensland.
Most overseas visitors have Sydney and the Gold Coast on their itineraries - Melbourne doesn't rate a mention - so if you think QANTAS should move (during the few years it has left under the Dixon Charter) then I vote for
:ok: COOLANGATTA :ok:

[Sunfish]

Thank you for your question QNH.

Yes, many other airlines have only one hub. In the case of Singapore, Thai and many others it doesn't matter because either the country is so small for geography to be a problem or there are competing airlines hubbing out of other locations to provide competition.

The problem is not even so much geography as one of travel time, especially on long haul routes like Australia.

The importance of direct flights to and from capital cities as an element of international investment attraction is well known and indisputible.

Qantas knows this. State Governments know this, yet Qantas makes only minimal efforts as a national flag carrier to address this matter of equity between states.

Oh I know the big lie "All our flights go to Sydney because thats where people want to go". This is wrong on at least one count. (a) after 23 hours travel you will get out of an aircraft at the earliest opportunity. Waiting in transit for the three hour turnaround and flight to Melbourne or Brisbane is excruciating.

What would I do? Initially I'm stuck with a hub in Sydney, but I would try to ensure that I can get aircraft into and out of Australia WITHOUT that Sydney stop over. I would sell this to State and Federal Governments as a measure to reduce pressure on Sydney and remove the need for a second airport in NSW. I would ask for Government handouts to do it too.

For a start I would maximise the number of direct flights to State capitals and put spare capacity on them. I'd have to invest in more rotables, staff and other line maintenance spares to do this.


I would make sure all my Sydney flights were fully loaded. That way I can take some pressure off the available slots at Sydney and get out of Sydney airport's clutches.

To put it another way, if you look at Qantas's international websites and plan any itinerary you like, you will notice that it is almost impossible to get to Melbourne or Brisbane at reasonable cost without passing through Sydney, and the itinerary with the Sydney stop is almost invariably the top of the list. I would tend to reverse this and I'd make sure that loadings into and out of Sydney were as full as I could make them in the interests of cutting down on flight numbers

I would put my A380 heavy maintenance facility somewhere else than Sydney - that would be cheaper too. I would move as much maintenance as I could, as fast as I could out of high cost Sydney real estate. Avalon comes to mind for heavy maintenance. As for workshops and engines etc, who knows? Moving them is a multi year business.

As a result of this I'm probably up for more spare engines and so on, but that is a matter of logistics that is subject of computer modelling that Airbus and Boeing will be only too happy to do for me.

Money is of course the issue, but I believe it could be attractive because a restructure could take the pressure off investment in a second airport in NSW and free up valuable real estate - maybe for another shopping mall or whatever. I would get the State Goivernments to put their hands in their pockets to "facilitate" as much as possible of increased investment in maintenance facilities and so on.


This strategy would be designed to stop Qantas being hemmed in by its competitors as a "Sydney centric" airline. Singapore has already started doing this and wooing Melbourne. If other airlines "adopt" a state each then Qantas is going to see market share eroding.

I would obviously adopt the "reverse pyramid" management style with the staff at the coal face on the top and the management in the depths below.

I'd also ensure the place was staffed by Australians and I'd be advertising that if you want to fly THE Australian Flag Carrier then you are going to have to be prepared to pay a little more because it is going to cost to maintain our high standards.

Meanwhile, the stock drops to 35 cents and Sunfish, no longer the darling of the markets, gets put out to grass...... but not before making off with $25 million in performance bonuses.:}

[Don Esson]

Sunfish,

You really should do your homework before you display, for all to see, your ignorance. You are such a goose!

Qantas flies daily Melbourne to Los Angeles and to Singapoire and return. Adelaide has at least three weekly direct flights to/from Singapore. Perth has several daily to/from Singapore, at least thee a week to/from Tokyo and daily (?) to/from Hong Kong as well as a couple a week to/from Jakarta. Brisbane has a daily Singapore, several a week to/from Homng Kong, a daily to/from Los Angeles as well as several to/from Tokyo.

Yes, Sunfish, not all Qantas international flights operate via Sydney. Some QF aeroplanes are away from main base for up to two+ weeks at a time. You obviously don't know that either. For one who proclims to be a former CEO, your lack of knowledge is alarming. Then perhaps that's why you were the CEO: ever heard of the Peter Principle?

We are we wasting time with your drivel.

:( :{ :uhoh:

[Sunfish]

OK Don, Look at the loadings and try and get a seat on those flights at short notice.


By the way, there is now a direct London - Sydney flight both ways but no direct London - Melbourne (there is Melbourne - London) , I have to stop at Tokyo (33 hrs) or Hong Kong (22 hrs) on the way out. Is this a genuine operational matter or just a marketing ploy?


And Yes Don, I know AC stay away for weeks sometimes, but where do they return when they get back and before they go out again?

[HANOI]

Sunfish

Wrong again , the usual misinformation. QF10 ops daily London-Singapore-Melbourne. Note also BA17/BA18 also operates London-Melbourne-London ( via SIN ) and surprise , surprise it's not via SYD thereby disproving another of your inaccurate assertions.
Please get hold of a dictionary and try to understand what 'Monopoly' means. How can having 40% market share of something mean you have a monopoly.

[Johhny Utah]

Yeah, sneaky Qantas, putting those direct flights (which will let people bypass the cesspool of nepotism that is Sydney & go straight to wherever they want) right at the top of the list - that'll fool them :rolleyes:

http://www.users.on.net/~sralph/flights%20avbl.jpg

Sunfish, you are a peanut :suspect:

And again for those who are unfortunate enough to share the same state as you know who...

http://www.users.on.net/~sralph/flights%20avbl%202.jpg

[Sunfish]

Sunfish will keep trying to ensure that it is as easy to get to Melbourne via Qantas as it is to get to Sydney

There should be no bias towards NSW.

This is a matter of loadings as well as flights.

I will keep carrying on about this until there is change,

[Kaptin M]

Sunfish will keep trying to ensure that it is as easy to get to insert your favourite city here via Qantas as it is to get to Sydney Now you ARE being "home-o-phobic", Sunny"
Trouble is, Sydney is home to almost 4 million Aussies (vs just over 2/3 that number for MEL), and NONE of the Japanese I've spoken to, who are visiting Oz on vacation, have MEL on their itinerary.

So why would QF have any incentive to INCREASE existing services to there?

(The 3 months initial intake training into AN, and the recurrent sims & ground schools there, only made me appreciate BNE all the MORE :} )

[Ultralights]

melbourne! too cold, rains a lot. :} :}

[7gcbc]

Adelaide too, but I seem to think they are still waiting for the 2nd fleet to arrive (least thats the way they act) :}

[Eastwest Loco]

Hi Sunfish

Just out of interest, QF is double daily twice a week MEL LAX, and quite often I have to reroute LAX SYD psgrs over MEL to get a decent fare.

The fact is the MEL LAX services normally can be sold right down to deepest discount almost until the aeroplane pushes back.

Maybe this is a function of the respective Tourism bodies, both State and Federal, rather than the operator.

Best regards

EWL

[Mean, Nasty & Tired]

Such ridiculous bulls*#t, both Melbourne and Sydney are GREAT cities for similar and different reasons.
Both have accepted migrants from all races, both have perfected their chosen talents and both have remained since their inceptions as the respective state capitals.
Sydney is home to the sun worshipping, fun loving beautiful people, Melbourne home to pragmatic, down to earth, black never goes out of fashion people.
I think we continue to forget one thing

WE ARE ALL AUSTRALIANS

Instead of pi#*ing and moaning about who did what, got more, is shagging who ? worry about saving each other's jobs, conditions, awards, livelyhoods etc etc etc

In short every one of us is under extreme pressure do our jobs cheaper, faster, more efficiently and longer,
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US,
Join together FIGHT the common enemy or Fly you fools as we are lost