EGLL Tower on the Move

[point5]

Evening all!

Can't find the original thread, but for all who are interested or haven't yet seen it, the first 12m has been put in place under the tower cab and the support cables installed.

A further 4x12m sections will be installed in due course with the tower due to reach its full height by the end Feb/begin March.

Cheers!

[Bright-Ling]

Super!!!!

And if anyone is interested, the CTC has some building work too

:)

[ayrprox]

and for anyone else interested, the building of npc continues apace
:}

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

And of equal interest - our WC is knackered.

[The Obvious Choice]

We have some paint drying!?!?!

[fastjet2k]

I've just had the planning permission for my garden shed removed by the council :(

Where will I live now? Perhaps someone can rent me a room in the new tower at LHR which I'm told I should be able to move into sometime in march??

[White Hart]

Once it's up and open for business (steady!), I look forward to watching the first-aiders deal with their first vertigo victim. Pass the sick bucket, someone!

[Lost_luggage34]

On a slightlier more serious note has anyone got any 'photos ?

Saw a snippet on BBC News 24 the other day during the A380 build-up which looked like LHR. There was a tower in the background of glass construction in the shape of an inverted funnel.

Could that be it ? I no longer reside in the area but still suffer LHR withdrawal symptoms !! Sad I know !

[GT3]

glass funnel, management shovel **** into it and we stand underneath.

Yes that was likely to be the new tower.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Could that be it ? I no longer reside in the area but still suffer LHR withdrawal symptoms !! Sad I know !>>

Nothing sad at all - I grew up close to Heathrow and worked there for many years and I miss it tremendously. I think the new tower is appalling - nothing like the wonderful building currently in use. However.. we all have to modernise, or something!

[Max Angle]

The new tower is certainly no looker at the moment but once it's done it may look pretty good, certainly different from the standard concrete tube that all the recent new towers in the UK use. Any idea how rigid it will be?, I suspect the sorts of winds we have had recently would have set in swinging a little. Lets hope we don't end up in the situation I have seen at AMS a few times, their tower is so tall that they sometimes have to drop into LVPs coz they are sitting in cloud while everyone at ground level can see quite clearly!.

[On the beach]

DIY Tower

Of course you could have gone for the cheaper, do-it-yourself Tower kit, using 44 gallon oil drums, an old helter-skelter and some string. See here for details:

http://hoore.com/helo/sytower/

:cool: On the Beach :cool:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<they sometimes have to drop into LVPs coz they are sitting in cloud while everyone at ground level can see quite clearly!.>>

Been in that situation many, many times at Heathrow.. Maybe it doesn't happen too much now with the cleaner air.

The original surface radar - ASMI - at Heathrow was not a daylight viewing radar so the tube had a large hood attached to it to shield it from the light. Controllers often became so engrossed in doing GMC "under the hood" that when we eventually took our reddened eyes out we'd find it was CAVOK. Did our colleagues tell us? No way Jose!!! Great times....

[Skylark_air]

What the hell is that tube thing circling round Sydney Tower? A superslide?

Or worse - The vomit drain !

[terrain safe]

<<they sometimes have to drop into LVPs coz they are sitting in cloud while everyone at ground level can see quite clearly!.>>

Surely that's a wx standby not LVPs??

[Gonzo]

LVPs are initiated either by visibility getting below 600m or by the cloud ceiling 200feet or less.

Weather standby is completely different, say for very strong winds, and means that the Airfield Fire Service are positioned out on the airfield at a high readiness.

[terrain safe]

Yes but if cloud base is 200 feet around the twr you are not in LVPs but you put a wx standby on because you can't see the landing traffic. I do know the difference!!!!

[Gonzo]

No, not at Heathrow. If the cloud ceiling gets to 200 feet or less, we go in to LVPs.

You mean you are quite happy to have the cloud base at 100 feet and not provide any Cat 2/3 protection?

[fly bhoy]

Its the old cloud base/ceiling thing again. (No way...I remember something from the college!!!!)

Technically if its only the cloud base thats at 200ft and not the cloud ceiling then we don't go into LVP's, but if that particular cloud base just happened to be round the VCR then I would say a weather standby would be in order as it also includes "when landing or take off is difficult or difficult to observe"

I would, however, think that the chances of there only being one cloud in the sky and it being right round the VCR, while the rest of the airfield has a beautiful gin clear day, are very remote!! More likely the rest of the airfield would be similar meaning that it would be a cloud ceiling and LVPs would be enforced.

Not trying to be pedantic, Gonzo, but it also really depends where the 100ft cloud base is as to whether or not Cat 2/3 protection is needed. If you've got FEW about 5 miles north of the airfield then I would say ILS protection probably isn't necessary?

What IS going to be interesting in the new tower is when the cloud ceiling is at 250ft and LVPs aren't in force but we can't see a thing out the window cos the tower's in the clouds!!:\

FB:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Yes but if cloud base is 200 feet around the twr you are not in LVPs but you put a wx standby on because you can't see the landing traffic. I do know the difference!!!!>>

I never heard of that procedure during 35+ years in the business working at 4 aerodromes - two fairly small, one medium and one very big.

I presume from what has been said that new procedures exist for some sort of AFS standby in LVPs? All the years I worked at Heathrow I would think at least 10% of landers and departures couldn't be seen from ATC, but I know nothing of any "weather standby" preocedure.. Enlighten me please someone...

What about those airfields where certain thresholds can't be seen - are the fire brigade on permanent standby?

[Gonzo]

Not trying to be pedantic, Gonzo, but it also really depends where the 100ft cloud base is as to whether or not Cat 2/3 protection is needed. If you've got FEW about 5 miles north of the airfield then I would say ILS protection probably isn't necessary?

Ok, maybe I shouldn't have used the term 'cloud base' in my example above. Perhaps I should have asked if it would be sufficient to have just a 'weather standby' on with OVC0100.

Regardless as to where the cloud is, if we get 5 or more (BKN or OVC) at 200 feet or below, we initiate LVPs. End of story. Yes, you can decrease the spacing slightly as the a/c are vacating the LSA quickly, but it's still LVPs due cloud.

[spekesoftly]

HD,

I think you'll find that the definition of a WX Stby has not changed significantly for the past 25 years or more. If Weather conditions make it difficult for ATC to observe aircraft taking off or landing, MATS Part 1 requires them to initiate a Wx Stby. Therefore during LVPs, a Wx Stby is likely (though not always) to be required.
Perhaps Heathrow has its own procedures, that cover this requirement, without ATC initiation?

At ATC units where sight lines are obscured for other reasons, SRG will require appropriate procedures to be in place, and may even insist that the Airport Authority build a new Control Tower!:p

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Spekesoftly.. Wx Standby certainly was a category at Heathrow when I started there in the very early 70s and I recall it being instigated for very strong winds. As far as I can remember, it was later abolished and no such emergency category exists now at Heathrow. (Hopefully one of the current controllers will correct me if necessary).

[Gonzo]

HD,

We can have a 'Local Standby (weather)'.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<We can have a 'Local Standby (weather)'.>

OK.. thanks for that Gonzo. It is ever instigated (especially for LVPs)??

Bren

[Gonzo]

Only for strong winds, as far as I can remember. Maybe once due to icy taxiways perhaps. Never due to low cloud.

[point5]

For those with the slightest of interest... the second 12m section was raised under the cab yesterday. There are now 3 more lifts due before March.

Awaiting the abuse!

[White Hart]

Here's something for you to mull over.

It bothers me that there appears to be disagreement between the ATCOs on here over the LVP criteria for LL. At present, the decision to go into LVPs is taken by the WM (or Supervisor) in consultation with the Met Observer. Once SAMOS is fully operational in the new VCR, it is my understanding that it will be the ATSA 2 SAMOS Met Observer who "calls the shots" when it comes to Low Vis, as he/she is responsible for the local Met reporting. (The Met Observer will have departed from Northside prior to this)

I hope the training package (ha ha!) can fully clarify the situation regarding LL LVPs that you have been discussing above - I, for one, would not wish to enter into a spat with my work colleagues over whether we are/are not in LVPs. Having said that, I would also expect the Sup/WM not to pressure me into declaring the wx being at LVP minima if my observations didn't concur.

Gonzo, perhaps we can have a quick chat about this at work?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Do I detect a dreadful bag of worms opening? I'm very glad I'm out of it!

[SilentHandover]

We have no problems at KK with the ATSA 2's carrying out the Met observing with the help of SAMOS, WM's trust our decisions in marginal wx as it is what we are trained to do.
The criteria are very clear and we appear to follow the same as yourselves of cloud CEILING @ 200' or below / sky obscured / IRVR of 600m or less
Good communication is necessary as with most aspects of ATC so they do like a little advance notice before an ob is distributed dropping us into full LVP's :E

[GT3]

I think what WH is leaning towards is the commercial pressure and how that can sometimes encourage certain things to occur at LL.

[Gonzo]

There is potential for that sort of thing, yes, but at the end of the day the ATSAs will be the ones certificated by the Met. Office to use SAMOS, not the Watch Managers or Unit Management, and I would hope anyone in a position to question the ATSA's decision would have enough professionalism (!!) to realise what shaky ground he or she'd be on.

[Evil J]

Speak for yourself Gonz, some of us who have been out and about the last few years have gained significant Met observing experience (from a high, albeit not as high! tower)!!!

[Gonzo]

Not quite sure of your point, old boy. :confused:

[White Hart]

EvilJ

Nor me - perhaps you'd care to elucidate further?

HD

There's always many 'cans' at Heathrow - just needs someone to take the lid off one now and again!;)

GT3

I would hope that no ATSA 2/SAMOS observer would bow to "peer pressure" if it was applied. Safety is the prime concern, not commercial pressure. I would also hope that no Heathrow ATCO/WM/Supervisor would stoop to such a professional "low".

[point5]

...back to original topic...

The last 9m section will be positioned at the base of the tower this week. Tower will be full height by the weekend.

Cheers!

[TopBunk]

point5

have been watching the erection with interest - it's certainly a big one! What exactly does/will the central core contain - just lift shafts and electrical services etc? Presumably the concrete core will be covered by some cladding cos it looks out of proportion at the present time. What about backup method of exiting in case of fire - will you have a stairwell or a helter skelter type slide round the outside as per Sydney (I think)?

[Scottie Dog]

For those of us north of Watford, could anybody post a recent photo?

[GT3]

:zzz: point 5 ;)

[Lost_luggage34]

Yes please - some photos.

Surely someone must have one or two which they could post ?

[Mr Chips]

We in the training section at TC could probably post a photo, the tower is now looming up above the estate opposite!!!

How WILL you get out in an emergency boys? And far more importantly, how do you clean the windows???

And just for fun, why can we only see 3 red lights from our office? (3 reds on the tower, there are plenty of red lights in wiondows in the estate opposite!!!)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Here's what it is supposed to look like eventually:

Heathrow Tower (new) (http://members.aol.com/heathrowdirector/)

[Lost_luggage34]

Assuming the training department is within the goulag LACC compound .....

Ah yes, the useful shortcut betwixt Stockley Park and the Sipson road. Great timesaver but wouldn't want to be in the area after dusk if you know what I mean ! :p

Thanks for that HD - I am certain a few comments will be forthcoming regarding the support cables !

Is that sourced from the architects or similar ?

[Aluminium Importer]

Would like to see you play Beetroot Shove Ha'penny from up there Bren.......

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Ali... Hot Work permits be difficult too!!

[Inverted81]

http://muchos.co.uk/members/cfleet/DSC00124.jpg


here ya go chaps....
the central column if formed steel i think... this was taken with about 2 more sections to be slotted in... which i saw being driven down the m25 last week.

Thanks to LTCC for arranging our visit.. nice to get a real first hand view! :}

[Lost_luggage34]

Thanks for that Inverted81 - nice one.

Almost has a continental look about it !

[point5]

The tower itself will have lift/stairs inside the main column with a glass lift on the outside (nice!) At the base will be a small 2/3 story office building for ops/training etc.. No rest rooms for night shifts (tut tut) or food facilities, plus a 25min walk from T3 to get there.

No details wrt escaping in fire. I'm sure they have solved such a problem and will let us know the procedures before we get up there (yeah right!)

The penultimate section was put in place on night of 21/02, the last section was transported across to the base on night of 22/02. Should be in place by the weekend.

Building should be complete by the end of the year. Will be operational by Oct next year (place your bets now!)

Cheers!

[Barry Cuda]

No details wrt escaping in fire. I'm sure they have solved such a problem and will let us know the procedures before we get up there

Will NATS be doing flying training followed by a weeks basic base-jumping some time in the future?

[Gonzo]

Even in the old tower, if the stairwells were impassable, the story was that we'd have to wait for a helicopter to come and get us. I reckon the nearest SAR helo would be the Coastguard at Lee-on-Solent. And the fire doors were meant to last for 30 minutes. :oh:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Even in the old tower, if the stairwells were impassable, the story was that we'd have to wait for a helicopter to come and get us.>>

But at least in the old Tower you can go out on the balcony (and make faces at the CCTV camera!)

[TheOddOne]

There was actually someone rescued by RAF helicopter from the 'new' tower at LGW, a window cleaner I believe.
TheOddOne

[Gonzo]

Of course, we'll be snookered if the cloudbase is 200ft!

[hold at SATAN]

Apparently, in the event of a fire, we get to zip down the support cables krypton factor style. No one could confirm if there is going to be a muddy pool at the end for us to splash into, or if the rest of the assualt course will be built around the tower. I just hope our pilot buddies fly better than some of the contestants on the flight-sim round on the krypton factor.

for those youngsters who don't know what the heckity heck the krypton factor is.....you missed out on some top notch telly!!

[mad_jock]

if your getting the wire escape pods we used to get in the oil indusry don't try them before you have to use them.

I made this mistake. They consit of a braked escaped pod which you jump into and away you go down the bit of string.

They way they used to work is that you jumped into them when the Blow out valve went, when they blew the BOP and you stuck your gas mask on and jumped off the derk in one of these things. YOu then headed towords the ground at something towards terminal velocity which is then stopped at 4.5g at the bottom. You only do it once and then you changed your carreer.

IF they offer you training get them to show you the door and which handle to pull and thats it you will only do it once. Its way worse than a min approach in ****e wx trust me.

MJ

[Talkdownman]

At least we rejected the option of the inertia reel harnesses which stop 3 inches from K25.......

[expedite_climb]

Sorry haven't got a photo, but you no longer need to visit LHR to see the new tower; it is very clearly visible from the M25 !

Anyone know how tall it will be eventually ? Someone told me the other day 270 ft ? Surely not ?

[HAMMY]

Call that a tower! Take a look at this one

http://www.suvarnabhumiairport.com/demo/en/imgov1en.php

[point5]

Tower now at full height, in fact, 2metres over height as they still have the platform underneath. This will be removed in due course.

The height sounds about right, 87m!

[ex jump pilot]

The new tower needs to be 87metres tall for the occupants to see fins over the roof of T5 and the double height piers for the A380.
In the summer, the base building will appear.
The cables will take 160t force (1/10th load) to help reduce vibration in the wind - also there are spoilers on the mast and also active mass dampers made in Japan.
The design (by Arup) even allowed BAA to keep stands and taxiways open (work out the reason yourself...).
Whilst being assembled, the temporary stay cables had to extend and contract as the tower went up and down.
Details shamefully nicked from the 24th Feb 2005 edition of the mag called New Civil Engineer

[surfingatco]

For Skyport's take on the new tower click here (http://www.tamarweb.net/images/dogsbody001.jpg)

[Gonzo]

And he's not alone!!!!!!!!!! :{ :{ :{

[Scottie Dog]

As a northerner I have just seen my first photo of the new tower taken from short finals to 28R. Just looking at it makes me feel as if I should be suffering from vertigo!!