Heathrow / Space Available

[Plaintruth]

After many approaches / departures from LHR over the last few years I wish to say that the controllers are some of the best in their profession.

I would question that their job is not made any easier by commercial considerations from the airlines to fit more movements into the busy periods.

Have we reached saturation point at LHR ?.
At certain times the answer must of course be yes and further expansion should be carefully considered in the light of safety for crews and the sanity of the controllers.

It also is obvious that the standard of English spoken / understood by some of the crews operating into LHR from countries where English is a second language, is giving cause for concern.

I would welcome the comments of ATC and Pilots who regularly use LHR especially in the light of privitisation and recent comments in the media concerning the airprox on 09R.

[Gonzo]

Plaintruth,

I think we would all agree that commercial considerations sometimes(!) get in the way of us providing the most efficient ATC service. It is shocking the number of times that, say, a QANTAS or KLM flight lands and has to hold for 10-20 even 30 mins for stand to be vacated on T4, whereas a BA flight that comes in behind gets a clear stand.

As for the language problem, I think one has to bear in mind that it will never go away, and tolerance and flexibility are the watchwords (and listening for readbacks!).
Just yesterday I was on Ground control from 0630 local, when T4 really goes ape. There was an Egyptian Gulfstream coming out of Metro Aviation on the southside to depart 27R. I told it to turn left and hold short of 27L, which he readback perfectly, and then I clarified the location by describing the Victor apron. However, he turned RIGHT and looked like he was going to cross at the threshold of 27L (not a good idea because of fluctuations in Glideslope for all the arrivals on 27L). I firstly got him to hold position, and because of work in progress I persuaded him into a 180 on the taxiway (which initally he readback as "After landing aircraft, we cross runway"!). Waiting until he was established taxying westbound, I told him to continue along the taxiway, and just in front of the BA 777 (which was holding short of the Victors) to turn right and hold short of the runway. Again, a good readback. Next thing I saw was the Gulfstream diving back into Metro Aviation! I finally decided to cut my losses and asked for a marshaller to lead him all the way to the holding point. However, even though the freq was busy and I had plenty of other things to worry about, I did not raise my voice or get frustrated at this poor Egyptian Gulfstream pilot who had probably never been to Heathrow before. There is just no point in getting angry with foreign pilots. I can say his English was much better than even my French!

Gonzo.

[This message has been edited by Gonzo (edited 16 May 2000).]

[Feather #3]

I've been mulling over this for some time and not even quite sure that this is the correct thread, but here goes.

Arriving LHR the other morning [dark], clear below 1,000ft on the 09R ILS, and talking to the TWR. Heard a guy cleared for takeoff and awaiting landing clearance. Couldn't see the other traffic, but not worried [LHR, you see] and admiring the new REILS on 09R [thinks; how did I miss that on the Jepp a/p page?], when we realised the REILS were the strobes of the bloke cleared for takeoff and he was NOT moving!!

Briefed F/O as to our preference for go-around as he'd started to roll. Late landing clearance [that's fine; used to that from Aust.], but I don't think I've been that close to another airborne a/c outside an airshow routine.

A friend from a UK IT carrier said this is common at LGW, but how close is too close and does this happen all the time? SYD has some of the tightest 'fits' around, but this was almost the closest I've seen in 30+ years.

G'day