Etihad...they gotta be kidding

[411A]

Well, it seems so anyway.

Upon looking at the latest issue of 'Flight International' I notice that the above mentioned is recruiting Captains on the B777 (or A330/A340) with a salary package of...hello, are we listening?...US$5,300 - US$ 6,700.

Have they gone mad...as in, totally disconnected with reality?

The T&C in the middle-east is worse than I thought.

These folks are right and properly.....ah, well I gotta say so...out of their minds.

Or, more properly, 'disconnected from reality.'

[Auria Wara]

Yeah, I agree. And they expect you to be rated also?!

[Foreign Worker]

Hey c'mon guys, the salary might be cr@p, but think of the LIFESTYLE :ok:
Uh.......on second thoughts :bored:
Then think of the big, shiney new airplane...yep, that's it...the BIG, shiney, new airplane.:cool:

And every payday, when you look at your p!ssy, miserable, salary, and it's time to pay the mortgages, close your eyes and think of that BIG, shiney, new airplane, and how GOOD you feel when you're in it ;)

And keep dreaming. because the REALITY of the situation is, you'll be on the road to nowhere.
Well actually you'll already be living in nowhere, so just keep thinking of that BIG, shiney, new airplane, and how THAT was what started all your problems :ugh:

[ironbutt57]

The package including the housing allowance and 22 rostered days per month is 'round 41,000aed divide that by 3.68 and there u have it

[mutt]

Ironbutt, that works out at $11,141 per month. So apart from housing, what else does that consist of?


Mutt.

[thegypsy]

Housing Allowance is what it says it is and not the same as Free Housing and Utilities. When you deduct Housing and Utility Costs the Package returns to very poor.

PS When on leave you are back on Basic Salary only don\'t forget.

[Mo Heekan]

And, i believe, they've just changed the pay from 'paid per rostered day' to now giving you 'Available Days', to whit you won't get paid for these. Corerct me if I am wrong, but this'll be a pretty big drop?

:)

[ironbutt57]

mmmmmmmmm had not heard of the "available day" scheme....the housing take it in cash 5000aed, or company-provided in auh up to 7500aed limit, and the rest based on 700aed per rostered duty day..flying or rostered stby..this may have been changed, and is also based on one having a specific number of hours total, and on type....so if u take the supplied housing option, 700aed@22 days..and the higher of the two basic..it's 40,000 n small change....this figure does not include the 5000aed cash in leiu of company supplied housing if u opt for that...

[hapimus]

well compared to what we make in malaysia , that is hugh.

so no wonder many from there are leavcing.

[Kaptin M]

Good for the MAS guys, hapimus :ok:

While some see the salaries as a degradation to those being paid elsewhere, they are - as you point out - an INCREASE for MAS pilots willing to make the move to the sand, and thereby raising the (lower) base line of the pilots from there.

I believe that Malaysian has lost many, many pilots over the past few years, primarliy because they can achieve much greater reward for their skills in other countries.
The experience drain on MAS will show, in terms of efficiency of operations and incidents/accidents.
MAS will become even more mana ada sistem!!

[fractional]

Etihad is a good job for anyone in desperate need for a job, willing to build up hrs on types, willing to become a Commander soon rather waiting yrs elsewhere or coming from another Operator where the salary is much less attractive. It's all very personal.
Forget about lifestyles. The lifestyle here only applies to single guys without previous "family liabilities"... For married guys with kids, not single geographically, and as long as the 1st para. does not apply, just forget it for now!!!
Flying a brand new airplane is wonderful and all that nice stuff, but at the end of the month does not pay bills...
From sources on the spot, you've got yr basic salary, your duty allowance (around 22 a month if flying and sby). Education allowance varies a bit. At Secondary level, it's 17,500AEDs annually per child, max 3 children (maybe 18K???). How many schools charge that? The housing allowance is becoming a subsidy if nothing is done soon. Captains get 90 or 95K annually. There are landlords asking for 20 to 30% increases in the rent lease renewals... One can get the ca$h, but remember that is less money. Sharing accommodation is a good way to go for single guys. A move North may be good, but remember things are not cheaper there, and in fact on the way up rapidly.
To my personal disappointment, I wish good luck to those who join Etihad from other operators where the package is less attractive. That's the way things go. One always tries to inprove his own deal. Nothing wrong with it.
Operators want to cut expenses and they look for ways to do so. Whether the practices are rational, it's a different topic. Remember that these things are usually motivated by "bean-counters" in finance depts willing to show short-term results to meet short-term expectations and get immediate bonuses... In the long run they proved to be mistakes...
The Gulf is NO longer the golden mine for those who thought so.
Good luck to all.

[guybrush]

Guys/Gals,

You have to remember that in U.A.E you use Dirhams (or Riyals, etc) not Dollars. When you convert the Dollars into the local currency you get a very respectable salary. As ironbutt57 mentions it’s about 41000 which at the end of the day is as big as it sounds, at least in the U.A.E. Keep in mind that many people in the Arab world don't hear about such numbers and that even applies to ministers of some countries. So to a foreigner from the West the salary sounds horrible because it is not enough to cover mortgages, etc back home. But for the Middle East/ Gulf, that is a very good amount of money by any standard.

If you live in the Middle East/Gulf Area you do not need 41000 of any currency from any country to live a decent life (with the possible exception of rent).

About rent and land prices: I don't know about Gulf countries, but in Egypt if you are a foreigner (or an Arab from the Gulf) you pay x2 for anything (because even if you pay twice what an Egyptian/Middle Eastern would pay it still sounds ridiculously cheap), that could explain the expensive rent for some expats.


fractional said: The Gulf is NO longer the golden mine for those who thought so.

Actually it still is for Middle Easterns/ North Africans and maybe Asians (Middle East usually means Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc).

Life style is different in the Gulf. New Buildings/ shopping centers/ products. Some products are cheaper than at home. Other products are either not yet present where the expats come from (latest computers/games/home appliances etc) or are manufactured better (chocolates of the same brand could have different tastes!!! Or so my sister says). Well of course there is Modern Architecture in the Middle East and eventually they get the latest products after a few months or so, but everything lacks the glamour of the Gulf.

So perhaps the Gulf isn't the gold mine for Western People but still is for the countries around the Gulf. But the question remains where will they get type rated captains/ first officers from these areas??:suspect: :suspect: :suspect:

Cheers:ok:
guybrush

[Kaptin M]

So with these "cheep cheep" salaries being paid, and with all other labour being as cheap as you say it is, guybrush, I guess tickets on Etihad must be CONSIDERABLY less than other competitors:}

They're NOT??!!
Funny about that! :mad:

[ironbutt57]

Think Etihad salaries are on par with packages in the Gulf, and higher than some....

[fractional]

I would agree salary package at Etihad may be what it is being said in the last posting if the company provided staff expense-free housing and inproved the education one. Certainly a single guy wouldn't have the latter worry about. All the best...
P.S. After all. I was wrong the Gulf is not a gold mine but it's a land of opportunity... I wonder what these airlines will be if this trend in standards is maintained. I'm serious. Nonestly NO prejudice here.

[vfenext]

Think it's a case of whatever the freight will carry, i.e. they will only pay what they have to in order to get enough interest. Obviously there are enough applicants so no need to increase the package. I know it's not much consolation but remember there is no tax in the Gulf.

[Big Bus Boy]

Its funny how many of you have friends here, who tell you the package but then seems to tell you the wrong numbers! Seems to me its pprune in overdrive.
An average Captain is going to earn around $10,000 per month with an F/O about$ 6600. This is after around 20 days per month at work.
There is an option of either company housing, a 3/4 bedroom apt, or an allowance, 90k/85k for Capt and F/O.
Schooling is limited to 4 kids, not 3 and is up to 19K, if you want English Lang school its very close to covering that.
Plus a few other bits.
The idea is that you move to Abu Dhabi, not try to maintain your co-existance in your country of origin, if you have been to Abu you'll know its a good place to live where money goes a long way.
Maybe one or two should ask your friends where they get their facts from 'cause I know mine are true!!


:cool:

[fractional]

For simple questions = simple answers. Again, depending on the "driver's" status there, Big Bus Boy has the right approach and figures. So he says.
Obviously, you are thinking of retiring there... because if you don't, and you are from Australasia, Europe or North America I can tell you "ends won't meet so well...", meaning your facts may be right, right NOW. I wonder if your accounts will after some time. Best of luck. 1 less to worry about.

[guybrush]

Kaptain M,

Why on Earth do you assume that I am implying that the salaries are cheap? I never said that. All I'm saying is that these salaries are attractive to many Middle Eastern natives.

guybrush:ok:

[Mo Heekan]

And please don't forget the Dhs v's the £UK, EU, AUS$ etc. It only sounds good if you're in love with US$. Otherwise it's a BIG, BIG drop in pay in relative terms over the last few years (not to mention inflation at 9% +, 25-35% house rental increases etc).

Do they offer exchange rate protection?

:uhoh:

P.S Also heard a rumour that the UK Govt is looking at taxing expats. If that's the case..........

P.P.S As for looking attractive to M.E natives; recent local VERY annoyed that his compatriots in his old job get SIX MONTHS profit share. Oh for the love of flying.

[ironbutt57]

Reading it off a contract Big Bus Boy...has it changed?

[Big Bus Boy]

I guess so, cause the new doesn't read like that.

[StressFree]

BigBusBoy,

95kAED for a housing allowance for a captain.........

Its just NOT enough for any sort of decent housing. Ring Mark at Chestertons and see what that will get you. If you need a family house in a reasonable area (close to perhaps The British School) then you'll end up subsidising your house from your own money.


:confused:

[Cerberus]

The Etihad package presented above sounds pretty good compared to the EK one. Most of the guys from EK that have looked though have found that there is not much in it. That is probably because no one has looked into how valuable the allowances are relative to the costs of schools, houses etc; so what is really the case?

At EK a DEC starts on about 26500 AED and an F/O on 17000. That equates to $7200 and $4600 / month

The EK housing allowance is 95k for an F/O and 105k for a Captain, similar to Etihad. The EK schooling package sounds more generous and the company puts some cash (12%) into a provident fund. Does Etihad have something similar?

If the Etihad school allowance covers the cost and the housing rents in Abu Dhabi are similar to Dubai it would appear that an Etihad F/O is about 21% better off and a Captain 25% even allowing for the 12% provident fund contribution.

If the Etihad package is really much better, EK might start to struggle even more to get crews. I would guess though that if you tried to move from EK to Etihad you would probably pick up an employment ban.

[ironbutt57]

unfortunately housing in AUH is not comparable to the rest of the Gulf, more like Manhattan....there USED to be a difference if one accepted the provided house in AUH, or lower if one "takes the money and runs" not sure now

[fractional]

I'm glad some are increasingly checking things out.
The money they say they pay is not the problem. The problem is the money you end up paying and that they don't tell you about... in any interview and you won't even think about until you are faced with it already in. What do you then if you don't like it, and all this after resigning from your other "crappy" job?
It's very inportant to get the facts and not the wish "dream" list. I'm repeating myself here and basing this posting (as the ones before) on a married status guy with a family in AUH. Many of you are possibly family men, or may be not (???). Things may be different for single (actual single) or geographically single.
Despite someone's criticism of my figures and after all, they are too far out, here we go again with a recap the inportant stuff outside flying business:
- AUH specifically has a strong shortage of quality housing for the allowance applicable; and it'll continue for many yrs to come. What can you get with 90 or 95K realistically?
- Education allowance from a good school is more than 18 or 19K and let alone the UAE DH exchange rate.
- EY health insurance policy... Ask someone working there what the new version is all about and what it covers (or about what it does NOT cover).
These are the basics... Let's leave the other things out (we shouldn't really, but...) for the time being, i.e. Life style cause that's up to each and everyone to do what they wish. I can tell you that the cost of living is not much cheaper than in some European, North American or Australasian countries. Obviously, I am not including car or fuel prices.
If you put altogether the main stuff, the end of the month balance is not going to look very pretty.
Yet again I remind you all that everything depends on where you come from. As many pointed out, it's very good for some, many more will fly in and I've got nothing against it. That's the normal way of life. We all look to inprove our lives (personal and professional) and good luck to those we can achieve that the sooner... Happy flying !!!:cool:

[Vagrant]

"I would guess though that if you tried to move from EK to Etihad you would probably pick up an employment ban"....Cerberus


Interesting that you would mention that. Read an article by a lawyer in the Gulf News this week, and it stated that Pilots are one of nine "categories" excluded from the six month employment ban. Good news for those looking to jump from the frying pan into the fire.

V

[Left Coaster]

Hate to say it but even with the "Ban" issue clarified, you STILL need a NOC from your own company to go along with the change in employers. So even if the ban is out of the way, you can guess the rest...
LC:mad:

[Mo Heekan]

Coaster: I don't believe there is a no poaching agreement (unlike with Qartar) as it doesn't explain how Cabin Crew have moved over very easily... ?

More info required me thinks!

:ooh:

[Global Nomad]

Make no bones about it.

EK will not issue a "no objection letter" if they see any significant number drifting to EY.

Whether they banned cabin crew or not will make zero difference to pilots or any future cabin crew heading to AUH.

There is a distinct difference between an employment ban and an NOC.

GN

[Mo Heekan]

Very true Nomad. Guess we'd better get in early then :)

[fatbus]

There is a problem with GF (AUH) going to EY, no NOC and that's it

[ironbutt57]

The show's not over, until the fat lady sings...:cool:

[JABAL]

It's all to do with supply and demand!!!!!!!! and the reality is the whole Aviation Industrie is heading that direction:{ and the bean countres are doing a grand JOB

[Shake]

I-Ford:

Plenty of 777 pilots willing to work 90 hour plus per month at 52+ years to add to a pension that is more than the pay at EK? Get a grip. If they are out there why haven't they come in more numbers? Ans: The work and the package isn't worth it.

If you think that EK and other airlines in the Gulf are just a good crack to liven up your retirement then you and your sort will have a surprise in store.

You get a pension more than most pilots can earn on the job these days...stay retired. :mad:

The best source of 777/330/340 drivers is EK itself. It wouldn't take that much to beat the EK package as it stands & to encourage pilots to leave. Experienced Capts are already leaving for the RHS and others back to Europe before the $/Euro-£ bridge is burnt for good.

It's a good time for a start up airline who require young, experienced drivers on the above types...if EK doesn't want them then others will.

[airbus34065]

Back to the original subject......No the pay package is not enough. If you are like BBB and have no kids, no responsibilities then it might be ok. But if you don't want to live in a hotel and have to have a villa, you have to subsidize it anywhere from 5-30 thousand Dirhams, plus utilities. The numbers he gives for the package are accurate. He knows because he has something to do with going over the resumes in the office. (Maybe hoping for a faster upgrade?)
And if you have kids, you will have to subsidize their schooling as well.
One of the only groups now that this is attractive too, is the MAS guys. So of the last 30 or so pilots hired most of them came from.... you guessed it MAS.
But, as with most things in this area, hopefully it will get better. Inshalla.

[academy49]

:D

Just a qustion.

= do eitihad take fresh graduate with only 200 hours on SE and ME?? ofcourse with CPL/IR with frozen ATPL.

= do they accept women?

[ManaAdaSystem]

The MAS pilots have a clear advantage over western pilots; The Malaysian currency is pegged to the dollar. They are protected against currency fluctuations as the rate between the Dirham and Ringgit is fixed.

If the Malaysian gvt decides to depeg, and if (as most seem to believe) the Ringgit is undervalued, they could be looking at an instant pay cut of 10-40%.

Pure speculation, but there are strong rumors they may let the Ringgit float sometime this year.

[Big Bus Boy]

Airbus34065,

just remind me A. where i have no responsiblities
B. Where I work, you sure?

I do know stuff, and do work for Etihad, but not sure about your comment.
Thanks. my moan is over.:mad:

[pudd]

I would like to know where all you guys earn 10k in dollars per month after tax? Most UK airlines pay 65k as an average per annum which after Mr Brown takes his cut is a lot less than Etihad pay. I have done the sums and would be quids in working in Abu rather than my present UK position, even with a family so long as you rent your present UK home rather than sell up and not cut all ties you could return without being priced out of the property market.
Also where else do you get the possibility for direct entry command with relatively low A330 experience.
Plus if the us dollar strengthens Bingo!

[airbus34065]

BBB, I meant you don't have a family to provide for in the UAE. And I know you work in Flt. Ops. (pilot)

No Etihad does not take fresh graduates. You must be current and endorsed on the 330, 340, or the 777. No they do not employ women pilots.

[papara]

airbus 34065

Is it advisable to send my cover letter and cv,even if i dont hold the rating,or will it be sent back as unread?737 pilot, 5000+hrs

Thanks

[ETOPS]

Pudd

I would like to know where all you guys earn 10k in dollars per month after tax?

At BA - $11200 net this month for Capt 777.........

[Dropp the Pilot]

$16,200 US "after tax" this month at Emirates.

Obviously, that doesn't align very well with the peeing and moaning from SecurID so before he and the rest of the terminally aggrieved descend upon this thread I willstate that precisely $14000 of that shows in big black numbers on my payslip, the balance went into the fund.

I will admit to being relatively senior and a beneficiary of the Exchange Rate Protection scheme.

I will not admit to being disadvantaged. Is it possible that to become well-paid you just have to shut up, do your job, and put in the time?

Just a thought.

[Quod Boy]

Dropp,either you know someone in the office,write your own roster,or smoke your socks,as the numbers you quote,are very hard to conjure up.Like you,been here long time,with ERP,but still,nowhere near.

You are however,correct,about doing as your told,doing your job and doing nothing,you are the ideal EK pilot.Well done,have a badge.

QB
:mad: :D

[Believe Brother]

I received USD 7300 for January, including ERP. I am several years into command at EK. Once again Dropp, you are full of cr*p. But then, that is also precisely what the people who have flown with you say too! :ok:

[Dropp the Pilot]

Hey Believe, looks like I make almost two and half times what you do! Say what you will, this company is a good judge of character.

If you and your other malcontent brethren are really interested I'll snip the bottom off my payslip and pin it on the top left corner of the bulletin board in the mail room but you'd have to promise to report back here. Then we can see who is full of merde and everyone can breath easier.

Speaking of which, take a breath.

[shades]

Lads across the road at Royal Jet / Housing allowance:

F/O 120,000 Dhs
Capt 150,000 Dhs

Wake up Etihad!!!

[druckmefunk]

I think the point here fellas is that there is now a massive discrepancy between the amount of work done and the pay received.

The guys on the 310 have no hope of ever getting overtime, no matter how hard they work, due to all the short turnarounds.

On the other hand the 340 guys are making 20,000 dhs in overtime which involves lots of time horizontal in the bunk. Good luck to them.

The 777 guys are somewhere in the middle.

This could change in a heartbeat of course if we get the Long Range 777's

The issue is that once again, most of us joined under the illusion that there was pay equality at EK, regardless of what fleet you are on.

That is now so far from the truth that it is laughable.

dmf

[00bultril]

Yep DtP is correct about EK pay.

My avarage over one year is $16000/month:}

Now with the latest shafting:sad:
Druckmefunk is correct, I can only earn $12397/month MAX:{

That is 129.323814 cases of beer/month less!!!:confused:

With all this stress, my crap golf has become a hockey game.
Now I loose more money at golf!!!
Can I take this stress at EK????

Still 256000% better than the RED TIE AND POSTMAN-PAT -UNIFORM we had to wear.

(don't panic we don't gamble at golf, just predict, like camel/horse racing):ok:

[pudd]

Etop, I am pleased for you, but if I applied to BA now I would spend my best years slogging around europe in the right hand seat, however apply to Etihad and I would keep my command and take a payrise! My point is that It's not just the MAS guys who would gain from joining Etihad.
Dropp, your pay sounds fantastic! Point taken regarding salary comparisons. I still believe that joining Etihad would be a better move for me rather than EK as I would keep my command, Happy flying, Pudd

[what_goes_up]

How long does it take from On-Line application to first reply?

[GULFPILOT76]

It does sound as an attractive deal, financially, but DO take into account the cost of living versus what it would cost at home.
Then think of payments at home (in euros, pounds etc.) I for one had the experience to live in BAH when the housing was much lower. When we were forced to move to AUH for GF traveller, financially ends didn't meet and GF would not pay the bill.
I decided to go home and found out that even by paying tax and after cost of living, I ended up with the same amount in the bank.
The currency gap made the difference even greater. Think before you decide, unless you have no option.

GF76.

[QNH1013]

Silly question alert.
Is it true, the rumour that Etihad may soon open up applications for Non Type Rated Pilots? Like they are not getting enough crew at the moment?

[jet4hire]

I went through all that!:cool:

[geo7E7]

Heard from some sources ( probably in EY website... ) that they consider non rated for their busses but not for 77's yet. The pay and benefits are low compared to the actual industrial rates but it's quite well off to some other airlines. They're still haven't come up with any loss of licence scheme yet but some of us can make do without it...the question here is, CAN YOU...?

"LETS JOIN EY....."

[fractional]

Based on local info, and as said before, there is a market for everyone.
There is no shortage of candidates for EY latest (and continuing) recruitment drive. Wherever they come from it doesn't matter (not only from the East...).
There are people out there flying the latest machines in the market willing to pay from their own pocket substancial amounts of on things like housing and education allowances, loss of license insurance and a poor health insurance policy. This is globalisation at its best. I say no more.
P.S. EY has "ceilings" on all those things and as known, they do not cover extras. The ceilings are very poor. Inshallah, things will get better for those flying in.