All talk?

[intentionally blank]

Well it is pretty much all over now. I doubt very much if anything will stop privatisation.

Maybe someone from London (LATCC, LL, KK, etc) can explain why the union support from these places is always so poor. At least a couple of them seem vocal enough in this forum (but they maybe the TWO who turned up at the recent parlimentary lobby).

Maybe someone can explain why controllers should care when ATSA's pay / T&C get cut. It never seems to be ATSA's writing letters or visiting MPs yet it will be them who get it in the neck (first).

I'm sure you do all feel strongly about it - just not quite strongly enough to actually do anything about it. :rolleyes:

Fireproof underwear at the ready.

[This message has been edited by intentionally blank (edited 03 May 2000).]

[Mr Chips]

So now we're ATSA bashing are we?

How many ATCOs turned up to the lobby?

Why did IPMS a few years ago sell CPSA (as was) down the river by accepting a pay deal we didn't want?

Why are so many senior jobs reserved for ATCOs when ATSAs would be just as suitable? There was a VN recently for a job that paid £35k, and yet was open to ATCOs and piolts, but not ATSAs

Why did ATSAs get the extra duties before ATCOs?

Since when did ATCOs care about ATSA pay anyway?

As long as all our senior managemnet are ATCOs, ATSAs are going to get a raw deal in NATS, because they seem to keep all the jobs "for the boys". And yes, i could name the jobs and the occupants if I wanted to.

Lets fight privatisation together, not take a wild swing at ATSAs.

Mr Chips
ATSA

[U R NumberOne]

Well said Mr Chips.

With me as an ATCO and my wife an ATSA I can see the potential problems from both sides.

We are entering a turbulent time in NATS and staff of all grades have to stick together or else we all risk getting sold down the river. I'm sure Two Jags and his mates would be delighted to hear about any fighting between the troops over PPP.

[intentionally blank]

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I doubt anyone would disagree that - comparing public and private sector pay rates - it is likely that post privatisation it will be ATSA's who get targeted first. Yet in my experience, and I admit this is a generality (is that a word?) they seem to do the least and be the least motivated when it comes to trying to stop the privatisation. Of course there are exceptions and I am not suggesting for one second a divisive approach.

I suppose I was trolling a bit too.

[Mr Chips]

Ok Intentionally...but we ATSA are very much against PPP. At my unit, a large number of ATSAs are on short term contracts, so perhaps they don't take quite the same interest......

[Bigears]

Good post Mr Chips :)
ATSA's do generally care about PPP, but after so many years (decades) of ATCO's walking all over them, they find it hard to speak out about anything! This is (of course) a generalisation (there are caring ATCO's out there :) ).
To add to our list of woes (and as an another example), why do non-op ATCO's get NOS, but ATSA's don't? :mad:

[Mr Chips]

There is a reason for that ears - but i won't dignify it by repeating it!! I guess you are in a similar position to me...drop me a line....

[Flybywyre]

ATSA's certainly do care about PPP but I think the problem is poor union representation on the shop floor, which may also be part of the problem, percieved or otherwise, that ears mentions regarding ATCO's/ATSA's.
Both ATCO and ATSA should be shoulder to shoulder on PPP.

FBW

[intentionally blank]

Sorry it hasd taken so long for me to reply.

At least I have an explanation to half of the original post... According to your replies it is a combination of ATCO's to blame (for atsa apathy), and poor ATSA union reps (who atsa's presumably vote for), and some on short term contracts (who presumably distract the others).... ;)

Meanwhile no explanation to the original question as to why London based ATCO's seem so errm laid back about the whole thing...

[niteflite01]

Apart from agreeing with much of what has been said already I just want to stick up for the Unions abit.

As an ATSA I have to say the rep at my unit is excellent and has done all he can to stir up some reaction from "the shop floor".

What I do detect, at my unit anyhow, is a general apathy throughout all grades (ATCOs and ATSAs), almost an attitude of "well it's going to happen anyway so why bother doing anything about it?". I know most of my colleagues feel this way and this would explain the perceived low opposition to PPP from certain parties.

A very sad situation if you ask me....but another indication of the dimishing effect unions have on top level negotiations and an increasingly apothetic workforce. A bit of a vicious circle.

Cheers

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"Go around..I say again...go around"