Emerald ATP - IOM

[cwllpl]

Can anybody confirm, a incident happening last night, with Emeralds ATP G-JEMC.

I've heard that on landing the aircraft veared off the runway, and damaging some lights on the runway.

If this is true, does anyone know how it happened, and at what time.

thanx

cwllpl

[eurobitch]

Wasnt on duty last night but can confirm that it happened. Was thought to be a burst tyre on landing at first but became apparent that wasnt the case. Aircraft was towed and grounded waiting to be investigated.
Its about the seventh full emergency they've had on iom/ lpl route so far.
Hope that helps :ok:

[Sir Stanley Bigh]

Hi Eurobitch

What were the other "full emergencies"? I can't recall any. If you're trying a cheap shot at Emerald I can only presume it's because you're trying to frighten passengers into flying on Euromanx. We don't try to gain any capital out of your own incidents (such as prop brake fires on shutdown) so please don't try to dramatize what was basically a non-event.

Thanks

[submariner]

Brief report on Radio Merseyside that an Emerald Aircraft to the Isle of Man had 'overrun the runway but all PAX and Crew unharmed'. No further clarification.

[San Expiry]

Bigh

I wouldn't class veering off 26 onto the grass and taking out some lights as a non-event and I'm sire the CAA might take an interest. Perhaps if you guys weren't paid so poorly you might have got some ready made experienced ATP drivers who know how to put an ATP down in one piece on the Island. Surface wind was only 230/30.

Let's face it, Emerald do not have an auspicious safety record when it comes to pax flying into the rock or should I say calf.

[Sir Stanley Bigh]

I can assure you that there are many highly experienced ATP pilots at Emerald, with tens of thousands of hours on type between them; those who were transferred onto the ATP by Emerald were all experienced pilots on other jet or turboprop aircraft. Paywise, Emerald pay the going rate for turboprop drivers - other ATP operators have advertised for crew recently and I know that nobody from Emerald has applied because the pay is no better, in one case actually less. What do Denim pay their pilots? And did Rossair pay theirs at the death?

[Night Freighter]

San Expiry

Why don't you find out the full facts before passing judgement. The crew involved have probably more hours than you can shake a stick at, and one hell of an experienced background.

Its people like you who give aviation a bad name.
Putting a company down might make you feel the big man, but you come across as a Tosser.

:ok:

[Harrier46]

Usual scenario, minor incident, sort of thing which happens fairly often to one operator or another and out from the woodwork come the drama queens. Check the other threads and see how many other operators have incidents or even one or two major accidents. Emerald are hardly unique in having an incident, aircraft are mechanical items subject to faults and aircrew are human beings who are fallible. Put the two together and you will get the odd incident. This week Emerald, next week......who knows!

[San Expiry]

Bigh

Prior to Emerald resurrecting a passenger service (and we all know why it stopped 2 years ago) there were no Emerald ATP crew as of 6 months ago. There was only one major ATP operator in the UK and its pilots (with one known exception but therein lies another story) shied away from your company because of the glaring inadequacies in SOME of the personel being recruited and training arrangements - fact! Whilst the continentals' pay-rates might not be up to UK standards your pay rates are poor. Your vastly 'type experienced' ATP captains should be paid a darn site more than they currently get.

Night Freight Tosser

Please highlight anything in my post that is not factual. You won't because there is nothing. I suggest that before you start casting aspirtions you should not assume that your target might not also have more hours than you can shake a stick at, if not more. Don't confuse experience with competence - Emerald does not yet have experience in running ATPs therefore....... It is your vacuous post which does you no credit, sir.

To return to my primary point; leaving the runway, no matter where or who the operator is, cannot be classed as a non-event which Bigh suggested in the first place.

To allay further rumours and contentious theories why doesn't somebody simply reply with the facts so that those with more, or less, hours than you can shake a stick at can draw their own conclusions.

[The Little Prince]

I totally agree. Not just with the serious nature of inadvertent grass taxying with an ATP, but also with the other Emerald factual bits.
For example, DME ranges being 'to' or 'from' a facility. This becomes quite critical when the facility is on top of a hill, and descent is supposed to start a certain DME AFTER the hill, not before it. To do that once is bad enough, but twice......? Thank goodness for Ronaldsway ATC. Very surprised the CAA ever let them carry pax again. As for experienced ATP pilots. Haw haw haw. the only one I know for sure is a gentleman who achieved a dismissal from an other operator for some....quite interesting antics in a Manchester hotel leading to his employment termination.
Having lived and worked on the IOM for some 15 years, I think we all know the reality of Emerald Airways. Not being critical, just factual! :E

[Fangio]

San Expiry

I am intrigued to know why Emerald ceased flying pax 2 years ago

[namxnam]

Cwllpl,
I am delight you have raised the subject of aircraft runway excursions on the Isle of Man, naturally this now entitles us to now research the subject a little deeper.

· Manx Airlines had a runway excursion from runway 26 in the “146”, the pilots at the controls were the Operations Manager and the Companies UKCAA operations inspector!!!!
· Manx Airlines had another runway excursion from runway 26, this time it was in the SD 3-60, the pilots at the controls this time were the SD 3-60 fleet Manager and another.

The above pilots with the exception of the CAA operations inspector are now working for British Airways flying to and from the Isle of Man, despite the above ‘major events’.
I quote San Expiry “I wouldn't class veering off 26 onto the grass and taking out some lights as a non-event and I'm sire the CAA might take an interest.
Indeed the CAA were at the controls with the operations manager when the above major event occurred. What happen? A cover up.
I again quote San Expiry “To return to my primary point; leaving the runway, no matter where or who the operator is, cannot be classed as a non-event which Bigh suggested in the first place”.
These major events occurred with the CAA, the Operations Manager, and the Fleet Manager at the controls, these pilots are now flying British Airways flying in and out of the Isle of Man.
By the way I forget to mention the fact Manx Airlines crashed an ATP on the Isle of Man, wrecking the aircraft.
San Expiry I rest my case.

[StressFree]

10 years ago right now I was in my final few weeks of working for Manx as an ATP driver based on IOM. Whilst the job and island life didn't really suit me and the mrs. the airline was well run with a good safety culture........
So namx what case are you resting..................?

[openfly]

Here we go again! Another Isle of Man posting and the childish bickering starts.
There ought to be a website for Ronaldsway Primary School. You could go and take childish pops at one another on there rather than degrading PPRUNE.
Grow up and act like the responsible pilots that you purport to be.

[San Expiry]

Fangio

Despite namxnam's preference to do so, I don't intend to air dirty washing here. The reason(s) for the ending of Emerald's early venture into passenger ops is exhaustivley documented ina CAA SRG report. I'm sure a trawl of their database will reveal all you need to know.

namxnam

To return to my primary point (again); leaving the runway cannot be classed as a non-event which Bigh suggested in the first place. A simple enough statement which casts no stones in any specific direction. Sufficed to say, any pilot or air operator who regards a runway excursion of any kind as a non-event demands some very close scrutiny.

[Night Freighter]

San Expiry

"Please highlight anything in my post that is not factual. You won't because there is nothing."

OK, lets sart with the fact that Emerald finished their last pax ops 4 years ago, not 2, as stated by San Expiry, thats a FACT. Also the reason for stopping was not enforced by CAA and had nothing to do with the said incident, but was purely a commercial decision, and Emeralds route licence was held open for return, which we have, and at present we carry more people from IOM-LPL than any other carrier. Our pax ops is gonna grow, we are a large growing company and are here to this time we are here to stay!!!!!

Also the comment on the lack of ATP experience is incorrrect, 5 of our ATP captains experience totals 30000+ hours on type between them and some have come from the said operator that no longer works ATP's to the island. :ok:

[euromanxdude]

Hey all.
I know this may not be relevant at the moment, but whenever i have a family member flying emerald, summit always happens! for example: -
my sister was flying to lpl on a sunday afternoon when approaching lpl she and all pax were told they were diverting back to IOM! - later found out it was an emergency and crew were told by lpl tower that the airport was far to busy to handle them!
my cousin was due to fly to lpl the wednesday after xmas on the 9:15am flight - but she was delyaed due to the inbound a/c gone tech. - the piolts had pulled the fire extinguishers in the engines after landing!
and me father was due to fly out to lpl on a sat morning t ogo to manchester to watch a match at old trafford. The flight had gone major tech he was told and eventually left at 16:15 that afternoon. He did cancel his ticket as kick off was at noon - but unfortantly aint been able to get the £70 back he paid for his tkt.

Think me family are cursed!
Happy flying!:cool:

[jafo33]

Paywise, Emerald pay the going rate for turboprop drivers - other ATP operators have advertised for crew recently and I know that nobody from Emerald has applied because the pay is no better, in one case actually less. What do Denim pay their pilots? And did Rossair pay theirs at the death?

Sir Stanley, what utter rubbish! We pay much less than nearly all other UK turboprop operators which is why most of our pilots are looking elsewhere for work and why several have already left or submitted their notice.

Promotion onto the ATP was not done by experience but by 'Jobs for the Boys' as is well known. It was to be cushy little number for those based at LPL. If it was done on the grounds of experience, then why were none of the very experieneced 360 pilots who applied offered a position?

[part69]

Euromanx dude

The engine failure and the fire bottle being activated did happen, but get the whole story right before posting.

Just a cheap way to dis emerald again. But remember who is a ticket agent and who is an airline!

[euromanxdude]

Calm down calm down!
I had only written what i had been told by a member of ground staff of EMERALD AIRWAYS.
And i wasnt purposelly dissing flyjem thank you very much, just relating to what had been happening to some members of our unlucky family!
And im not a ticket agent personally thanx. But who is going to be an airline for much longer?

[Capt. Horrendous]

Night Freighter I'm very impressed that some of your Captains have 30,000 hours on type, I flew the beast on the rock for six years for Manx and only ammassed 3,000 on it. You must work your pilots very hard at Emerald.

The reason that many of the ex Manx/Bral chaps ( myself included) didn't go and offer their services to Emerald ( and yes - we were all approached ) is because of the poor terms and conditions ( mainly pay, pension and staff Travel ) relative to those that we have in BACX. Also, Emerald tried it once before and it didn't work.

The ATP is the best tool for that job and can cover the IOM-LPL route in almost the same time as a 146 ( 19 mins my own p.b.). It can deal with 36 Kt crosswinds and turbulent conditions better than anything I've flown, and wind should not contributed to the incident described above as it was only 210/30.

Regarding the incident itself, the aircraft ended up on the left hand side of Runway 26 near the end having broken at least one runway edge light. The crew reported to the tower that they thought they had burst a tyre. Everyone was OK, thats the main thing - the facts will speak for themselves shortly.

[Night Freighter]

Capt. Horrendous

LOL

We must work our guys hard,

Post edited,

Cheers

[cwllpl]

I've seen the CAA looking over Emeralds ATP's @ LPL today. Emerald had one of the new freighters here today, does any one know if the CAA were looking at that particular aircraft, or has it got anything to do with the incident in the IOM.

CWL

[Mobster lover]

Errm, yes. It was supposed to be heading to the south of France, but had a bit of a problem after leaving Blackpool, so diverted straight into Liverpool.

The CAA weren't there because of the IOM 'incident', but as they needed to sign the freighter ATP off.

[torquetube]

Negative comments and backstabbing from stupid little F**** like you make me sick
You obviously have very short or selective memories when it comes down to it.
I could catalog ........ but I won't
and as for slagging off crews; well , remove the blinkers from your own eyes.
you obviously are very sad people who have nothing else in your lives except pointing the finger at everyone else BUT yourselves.:yuk: :yuk: