Middle East hypocrites (and the watches that they wear)

[forum newbie]

Do many of you find it ironic that countries like the UAE and Saudi Arabia donated little money to the tsunami victims even though they have many expats from sri lanka, thailand, and india working in their own country.

I find it ironic that many european countries and america are doing more for the victims then the middle eastern countries who rely on the foreign workers from those ravaged nations. I was reading that saudi arabia gave 10million in donations and america gave approximately 325million and sent 8 warships to help the victims. Its hypocritical that countries in the middle east blame the western world for problems and yet when it is time to help, others countries like the uae and saudi give next to nothing.

[Kopeloi]

What would you expect from them? That shows again that they are not keen for anything else than cheap labor.

[mutt]

Saudi Arabia has increased that amount to $30mil, that equates to approx $2 per national. They have also planned a telethon for tomorrow night.

You might also be interested in checking out the actions of the Islamic Development Bank.

So please stick to the facts!

Mutt.

[Wiley]

Just because it hasn't been reported in Australia doesn't mean it hasn't happened, 'newbie'. (I've just rfeturned froma trip to the UK, and after reading some of the newspapers there, you could be forgiven for believing that the UK was the only country donating anything to the disaster, and I suspect the same might apply in many other countries.)

I'd have thought a donation of 20 million US Dollars from a country the size of the UAE was anything but stingy. (It's certainly a bigger donation per capita than Australia.) And just like Australia, that 20 million is from the government of the country, and doesn't include the private donations made by both UAE Nationals and expats within the country, which I understsand to be quite substantial (just like Australia).

The Indian and Sri Lankan communities in the UAE have also been extraordinarily active in raising funds and getting food and clothing to the affected areas. And if you had any knowledge of the area, you'd know that any gift from many if not most of the people of those communities comes from pockets considerably less deep than the average pocket in Australia.

You do everyone a disservice trying to score political points over an issue like this. Stranger things have happened - maybe this horror will be a catalyst in getting some of the hard heads and hot heads in the world to see their view of the world in something other than stark black and white.

[justforfun]

Considering that ALMOST 100,000 people in the largest Muslim country in the world, and thousands from other areas lost their life, I'd have expected a bit more "help" from the Gulf states, as opposed to the banks.

Mutt, you mention $30 million from the magic kingdom and a telethon - care to tell us what the telethon they had for Palestine raised as opposed to what they raise for Tsunami victims?

Apathy is the word of choice here I believe, and its very sad.

And before anyone mentions anything about not understanding etc, I live in the Middle East also.

JFF :suspect:

[Dumpvalve]

Forum Newbie and JFF if you live in the Middle East then you would know that the Shaikh of Abu Dhabi has donated $20 million. For an Emirates of that size - I think that is pretty fair. But I suppose it is much more fun to critize when you don't have all the facts.

[dicksynormous]

Dumpvalve, do you own a gold rolex?;)

[Dumpvalve]

Hey, EK Groupie (nee Dicksy) there must be some point to your last comment - just battling to put your fascination with my wrist apparel into the context of this thread. Sorry - still drawing a blank.



:confused:

P.S. But I'll bet you own a Breitling - you know what they say about guys with big watches...:p

[millerscourt]

dumpvalve

Size ( of Abu Dhabi that is rather than Dicksy's watch or whatever ) has nothing to do with it but rather how rich one is to compare his $20 Million donation which is a drop in the ocean ( or Gulf if you prefer it ) compared to his financial support to the Taliban over the years.

With such high Oil Prices I do not think $20 Million is particularly generous to his mainly Muslim brothers who have suffered most in Indonesia.

The amount given by the UK Government ie Taxpayers merely increases Gordon Browns already huge monthly borrowings which have interest added and have to be repaid in due course which makes UK's contribution particularly generous IMHO. Pocket money to the Ruler of Abu Dhabi and others.

Don't know what the Islamic Development Bank has done Mutt. Please enlighten us.

[Gnadenburg]

Wiley

One Billion dollars pledged by the Australian Government plus military resources. Public donations around the 60 million mark.

Saudia Arabia pumps millions into Indonesia- through Wahabi boarding schools etc. Even JI gets some of the pie. Religious development but never economic development!

It is amazing how a Rolex can mittigate reality!

In a part of the world, where they rarely have the decency to repatriate the body of a sub continent worker killed on a building site, I am watching with interest reaction from the Arab world.

[Dumpvalve]

Millerscourt,

You wouldn't be referring to the same Taliban that the Americans supplied with Stingers (amongst other things) during the Eighties - the same group that made frequent visits to Texas to discuss oil pipelines in the Nineties, would you?
I'm willing to bet that the UAE's total contribution towards the relief effort will be greater than that of many so-called developed countries - not bad for a country barely 3 million strong.

[dicksynormous]

g shock actually for work and exercise and a timberland for going out and as expalined on another thread, the most fun can be had in the ME forum, thanks to the vociferous nature of both pro and anti factions at ek. Less pompous than uk based threads and much more vitriol.

Ask around about the Rolex, it'll become clearer.

[Dumpvalve]

Dicksy,
Gave you an opportunity to rescind on the Rolex gag but I should've known better: of course you own a G-Shock - you would need a timepiece that could withstand all that rigorous wrist action during exercise...

On a more serious note - perhaps you could confine yourself to the basic parameters of the thread, i.e. it's the alleged hypocrisy in the UAE that you should be concerned about. Out of the gutter, my boy.

[dicksynormous]

OK point taken. I think they are a tight fisted bunch of hipocritical feudal mysoginist(gold rolex aside) assholes.

Is that more on message?:p

[Dumpvalve]

Dicksy,
That's better. You're obviously entitled to your own opinion, but take solace in the fact that you'll NEVER have to work in this environment.

[millerscourt]

dumpvalve

The Taliban did not come onto existence as a entity until 1994 and ruled most of Afganistan from 1996/2001. The Soviet occupation was between 1979/1989 during which time the US foolishly supplied Stingers etc etc to groups of Mujahideen NOT to the Taliban as you infer. They should not have interfered as they got no thanks for it and directly caused the Taliban to come into existence and allow Osama a base for his dirty tricks department to get going.

The only countries that recognised the Taliban were Pakistan,Saudia Arabia and the UAE, the latter two bankrolling these foul people where you as a Woman would not have been able to wear your Rolex that bigdicksy mentions.

[Dumpvalve]

Millerscourt (AKA Dicksy's Little Helper),

Two things you need to concentrate on: semantics and facts. First of all, the difference between the Taliban and the Mujahideen that created them please. Just a different word, is all. Also, you conveniently overlook the FACT that they came to the US as the Taliban (no confusion there) in the Nineties as I previously stated. They might not have recognized them as a state but they sure were willing to do business with them. Care to comment on that?

You have also accepted as fact that I own a Rolex as insinuated by your buddy. No basis at all.

[dicksynormous]

OO someones been watching farenheit 9/11 . i hope the subcontinent domestic didnt hoover too loudly while it was on . noisy enough to drive you to the mall sometimes.
:p

[Dumpvalve]

Dicksy,
It was quite well documented at the time, actually. You might've been too young to remember/read. Now that we're talking about movies though, why did you choose a girl's name?

P.S. What kind of movement does that Timberland of yours have- Swiss or Gore-Tex?

[dicksynormous]

Swiss.

I chose the name due to the cinematic influence at the time and the irony . You are the first person to twig it was a girl name.Usually i get people actually believing its a midlife crisis thing, but you can set your watch by the inability of many people in this industry to be so far up their asses to notice such subtleties.

Lets be friends and i wont mention the rolex again

[millerscourt]

bigdicksy

There is nothing to ashamed of wearing a Rolex unless it was gained through a Dubai-ous route! If the Cap (or rather Rolex in this instance ) fits then wear it.

[Dumpvalve]

Dicksy,
No problem - I was starting to get square-eyed anyway. But if you happen to have a ladies Rolex lying around that you have no use for, feel free to pass it my way!

[rb737-600]

Strange... "newbie forum" is not talking anymore, be aware of the facts before opening your mouth.

[bear11]

2 points - 1 pro and one against.

against: it doesn't take a rocket scientist if you've been in the Middle East to see just how badly the Indian/Pakistani/Philipino/Tamils etc etc are being treated - last time down during Ramadan I saw an article in the Gulf News about a company in UAE who was using Indian labour, the workers were complaining to their embassy that they weren't being paid. From memory, unskilled labourers for a 10 hour day were on 300 Euro-ish per month, skilled people on maybe 100 more, plus bed and board. You read it right - per month, and you can be fired home instantly if the person who sponsored you wants to pull the plug. I've seen these labourers standing in rags with zero possessions waiting in line at immigration in Riyadh airport. How can you treat people that way?

for: the Moslem world fortunately doesn't get into the obscene willy-waving that the West likes to do about who gave what to whom. It's retard journalism, and we shouldn't encourage it. You can be sure that far more private money will go through the underground system that the CIA have discovered over the past 3 years, and I will also bet you that the money the Arab states pledge will actually end up in the countries that need it. Have you ever seen the statistics of Western money pledged versus what actually got there in the end?

Two sides to every story, as usual.

[Earl]

Does not matter the type of watch.
No one shows up on time anyway.
Sometimes not even at all.
Always tell them, if you cant be here on time, then just be here when you can!
Re- scheduling has become a major event.

[forum newbie]

When i went to dubai last year, i was turned off by the way the arabs treated people from different races. I am not talking about how arabs treat europeans but how they treat people who are "inferior" to them. I grew up with the understanding that all people were equal.

TO further support this i think it is ironic that many of these arab countries give money to "other" causes but when a disaster hits nearby, they dont do all they can. I read that middle eastern countries donated more for the palestinians and the taliban than they donated for the tsunami casualties.

I dont want to get on my soap box and preach, but saudi and the uae are always talking about what america and other european countries do wrong but somehow forget when there is a disaster, its always the europe, america, and australia who rise to the occassion.

[mutt]

Forum Newbie....

A Saudi telethon launched yesterday to mobilize relief aid for victims of the Asian tsunami disaster collected more than SR260 million till the time of going to press, Thats US$69 million.

Jeddah-based Islamic Development Bank announced a $500 million relief aid at the meeting.

Skynews put a camera crew on the first RAF flight to Indonesia, around here, they just put the flight crew! No cameramen, no reporters !

Mutt.

[SecurID]

Hierarchy in the UAE?

1. Local (UAE) Arab
2. Any other Arab
3. British Expat
4. Any other European Expat
5. Indian
6. Sri Lankan
7. Filipina
8. Pakistani

Could be wrong about the order of 6 through to 8, but that's my own personal observation over the last twelve years. I Don't know where the Chinese and other South East Asian nationalities fit in though? If you see the way some of the people here are treated, thank God I am in the top 4!

But if you analyse the list closely, you will see the real discrimination goes up the list! The Indians get grief from their Arab bosses and as they are mostly middle management, give it all back to the rest of us above them in one way or another!

[VIPangel]

Mmmmmm.....intertesting what you all say and as for the slagging...come on boys!

$20 or $30 million to those Sheikhs, whether they are from UAE or Saudi is NOTHING! They would wipe thier a***s with more than that!

The plain thruth is, we have hearts in the West...not bulging pockets and Diamond cladded Rolex's dripping off our arms, like some Nations I think we all know......

If only we all gave alot of what we have, it would sure ease some suffering for those poor people, wherever they are from.

[Dumpvalve]

Yo Sandigger, The plaque for the alternates is in the ladies room.

[Dumpvalve]

Yes we do get it, you risque little fellow, you.

[Radar Pete]

What's up Newbie Forum? Confused, uneducated or naive?????

With regards to the donations for the Tsunami Disaster I would be careful about quoting figures of who is sending what and how much. Governments the world over, in particular western governments, love the propaganda spin hence the employment of spin doctors. The way some super powers have treated certain countries and the associated bad press, this is an ideal moment to say' look how great we are......'. To assume that what you read in the papers and this forum is fact shows bad judgement. Where do you read that the UAE critisises the west/european countries? I would love to know your source.

As for people being treated equal I would not be throwing stones. Show me a country that does not have some sort of hierarchy of nationalities or racism? Is Australia the free and fair society that you believe it to be?

To answer your question, yes, all people are equal but some are more equal than others.

I think this is hardly the time to be pointing fingers and judging countries, nationalities and religions during a time like this. We do not know all the facts. We should all be doing what we can and trying to do more rather than stand on soap boxes.

[guybrush]

Hi everyone,

Just for your information the Organization of the Islamic Conference donated $118,000,000 according to Arabic news channels.

You also have to bear in mind that in Islam, one is not encouraged to go around boasting that s/he has donated money to this and that. That could be a reason why we aren't hearing large amounts form Arab countries, but then again that isn't exactly the strongest of reasons. Also, many will give to international relief organizations, so one cannot count how much Arab civilians donated. Having said that I should add that governments do not usually follow the philosophy of keeping things quiet when it comes to donations!

There was a sheikh on TV the other day persuading people to send money, but since all the money goes to international relief organizations, it is hard to tell how much they actually gave. But I am quite sure there are a few in the Arab world (and the rest of the world for that matter) that will donate generously.

Let us pray that this disaster ends quickly and that the needy receive what they are need of.:O


I have read through the thread and noticed the discussion about discrimination in the Gulf. According to what I hear, and I repeat what I HEAR, from relatives who worked in S. Arabia and friends, discrimination is a fact of life in the Gulf. All non-Gulf Arabs + Asians + Indians/Pakistanis/Iranians are all inferior. It’s actually surprising that they are giving money to the Palestinians.

Now I don’t want to turn this thread into a Palestinian Crisis thread, but the reason why Arabs are helping the Palestinians is because it is a cause they believe in. It is my understanding that this money helps the civilians through the problems they go through at the moment and they are in much need of it, but I think there is also a political twist (as always unfortunately) but I can’t recall what it was.

guybrush:ok:

[tournesol]

Not only I am from the region, I live in the region, by CHOICE.
I find sometimes offensive for ppl who live in our part of the world, to be so critical of everything that we do. We do have a lot of problems that need attended to, just like many other countries have their own.
Those ppl who see nothing but bad in us, are the same ppl who keep clinging to this area and do not want to return to their native lands.
A lot expats reside in these countries and their contributions to to the developement is huge, and appreciated by the locals.

:{

Any one who criticize Arabs for donating to the Palestinian cause, should also critcize the American donations to the Israelis.
:ok:

[nomorecatering]

This column was reported in the Sydney newspaper on the 9th, Australian Sunday Tellegraph

Islam fails to find the gift of global generosity.
Piers Akerman
Sunday Telegraph January 9th, 2005

The tsunami which swept out from Indonesia a fortnight ago has not only smashed the population of the seaboards of neighboring nations but has devastated the notion of a so-called Islamic world.

Any concept of a unified Islamic entity should now be viewed with skepticism.

After a series of outrageous attacks on the west witch reached a crescendo with the world trade Centre murders on September 11, 2001, much of the liberal western media and many Christian religious leaders demanded the west re-think its approach to Islam and the Arab nations and start treating their dysfunctional societies seriously.

That many of these no-account nations had contributed little more than oil and terrorism to the world in the past century meant nothing to the pundits advocating a closer embrace with what is called “the Arab street”.

There are even demands from some of Australia’s self-anointed moral and intellectual leaders for democratically-elected western leaders to sit down and negotiate with murderers such as Osama Bin Laden and his followers in al-Qaeda and Jemaah Islamiyah

Though Osama and the suicidal murderers aboard the hijacked planes were wealthy and educated people, the west was told that the reason it was that we were being attacked was to do with poverty an inequity.

Poverty and inequity are sadly part and parcel of the Islamic world however and clearly don’t feature as priority issues for their governments or the stream of populist revolutionary leaders who have exploited Muslims’ sensitivities.

The lack of any coherent response to the needs of tsunami victims from the mythical Arab street and the blood thirsty mullahs preaching hatred across the majority of the Islamic nations demonstrates precisely how wrong it was to give the fanatics even a sliver of attention.

Islam which advocates the antithesis to democracy through the submergence of the individual in religion has truly failed its followers.

Nowhere is this more obvious that in the noisome refugee camps supported by the United Nations around the Israeli border for the past half century.

The Arab street has had every opportunity since Israel was founded by the United Nations to absorb the Arabs who fled the fledgling nation but instead closed its heart to those fleeing providing them with little more than false hopes.

In the west, we have been assailed by calls for greater tolerance though little or none is shown to those of other religions in most Islamic nations and in a number, Muslims who decide to leave Islam effectively sign their death warrants.

This intolerance extends even within elements of Australia’s Islamic community who deliver anti-western and anti-Jewish diatribes whilst enjoying a level of free speech which is non existent in any Islamic nation.

But it would seem that Islam with its many forms is not serving its followers well. Though more than 1,200,000,000 people or some 20 percent of the world population claim to be Muslim, there have been fewer than 10 Nobel laureates and one of those laughably honored the late and unlamented terrorist Yasser Arafat. The 14,000,000 Jews, about 0.02 percent of the world population have produced more than 120 Nobel Prize winners.

The strong strand of fatalism which runs through Islam may provide a clue as to the comparative failure of so many Muslim nations, and the poor response of the oil-rich Islamic nations to come to the assistance of their religious brothers and sisters in the current crisis.

It’s time Muslims put two and two together.

What has been revealed by the Jakarta conference is that it is not the Islamic brothers-in-arms who have responded to the tragedy but the nations that are usually referred to in the Arab countries as the Great Satan’s.

The Arab oil producers are knee-deep in the black gold but apart from the token payment by the United Arab Emirates they have been almost invisible in the aid lists.

Giving aid should not be a contest but it is apparent that Australia’s 20 million populations are contributing much more than many other nations and certainly more than any Islamic country.’

It is not just this tragedy which has brought this trait to the fore. Be it Bam or Beslan, the aid has always flowed in from the non-Arab world.

Nor is it just money, the Islamic world is apparently incapable of offering anything, a field hospital, medical staff, water purification, you name it, because it is so out of touch with the modern notion of humane contribution.

It should be lost not upon the Islamic world that the Israeli victim identification team now working in Indonesia was developed to help identify the innocent victims of Muslim terrorists.

In modern history’s greatest disaster lies the genesis for understanding how destructive and sterile militant Islam is.

In this catastrophe and all future catastrophes as far as we can see into the future, the saviors will come from Australia and the US, and other nations the Muslims are taught to hate.

Indonesian president S.B. Yudhuyono clearly understands this message in welcoming the assistance we offer. Let’s hope the Indonesian and Muslims everywhere see things so clearly

[mutt]

Nor is it just money, the Islamic world is apparently incapable of offering anything, a field hospital, medical staff, water purification, you name it, because it is so out of touch with the modern notion of humane contribution.

Yikes, does this mean that we are actually sending EMPTY cargo flights to these countries???

Mr Akerman needs to do some more research :)

Mutt.

[Radar Pete]

Gosh, with reporting like that it must be a great feeling to be an Australian.

Never before have I seen such one-sided inaccurate reporting in my life. It is a disgrace that an article like that even hits the streets.

[newscaster]

And the article has been written by a Jew, what else could one expect.

[billy34-kit]

TALKING ABOUT TO BE HUMAN!

Mistreatment stories scare away domestic workers - study

By Daniel Bardsley, Staff Reporter

Dubai: The Gulf region has one of the worst reputations in the world for mistreating housemaids, a UAE researcher has discovered.
The perceptions stay on despite research showing that women working in the UAE were better off than was often thought, UAE-based researcher Dr Rima Al Sabban has found.

Domestic workers would rather take up jobs in the Far East and Europe because they said in these areas they are less likely to suffer abuse.

Dr Al Sabban, a member of Social Science Research Council (SSRC), said scary stories made women frightened of what life in the Gulf might be like.

"Talking to domestic workers, Arab countries came at the bottom of their list of preferred countries to travel to. The reason was mistreatment," she said.


Dr Al Sabban made her discoveries about how domestic workers see the Arab world during an SSRC conference in Indonesia titled Women Domestic Workers in Islamic Countries.

During interviews, Dr Al Sabban - who prefers not to use the term housemaids - discovered that Indonesian domestic workers placed the Gulf countries below Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia and Europe in their preferred list of where to work.

"This poor image is taken from a few stray cases in other Gulf states and is then applied to the region as a whole," Dr Al Sabban said.

"The stories that reach the society are negative ones about those who have been killed, those who have been abused. These are the stories that reach the media and stay in people's minds. The problem of the image of Arabs comes because the media enlarge the story."

She said Indonesian women also tend to think that housemaids in the Arab world have poor salaries and little time off.

UAE authorities have recently banned hundreds of families from sponsoring domestic workers. Authorities hope it will stop people who abuse or fail to pay housemaids from employing them in future.

During the three-day conference, Dr Al Sabban presented research which showed women in the UAE actually work in better conditions than was often thought. "It's important to show that the Arab world is not homogenous and that there are good stories as well," she said.

She said delegates - who included human rights activists, government specialists, recruitment agents and university students - were pleased to hear the Arab world is not necessarily a bad place for domestic workers.

Dr Al Sabban said Indonesians first moved to the Gulf region to take up jobs as domestic workers in the 1980s and there are now as many as one million in the region.

[Radar Pete]

Ok, and the point here would be........?

Concentrate on the thread. Are we now all going to scan the worlds' newspapers and expose each country for its human rights abuses? We will, of course, be using the news media as our source of information as they are alsways open, honest and only report the facts, right?

Come on guys, if you are seriously concerned at least get your facts straight. To be using the media, printed or otherwise, as you reference material is blatantly stupid. When ever research is used to back statements always consider who has what to benefit from such research? The sugar industry displaying research that sugar is good for you is one such example. What research do you read you may ask? Well, look at who has conducted the research and who is paying for the research. Research can prove or disprove anything, depends what you want to show or sell.

I wish I were a saleman, I could milk you gullible lot for every cent you have............................

[billy34-kit]

...Hey radar!...I love when guys like you are in denial.
Maybe you should stick to reading only comic books.

[alexmcfire]

How badly hit where Oman and Yemen? Any airfields damaged?

[nixisfix]

RadarPeter
Why would Gulf News, the most prominent daily in Dubai,lie about the housemaid story? If you read the local newpapers with an open mind you find plenty of horrific stories which would warrant a public outcry in any civilised country (i.e. workers not paid for months, housemaid abused).

[Radar Pete]

Hi nixisfix, never did I say that the Gulf News was lying about the story of the maid. What I am saying is that you should not believe everything you read in the paper and furthermore you should not use the media as your sole source of research.

To reiterate, if you are concerned about a topic do yourself the justice of researching the topic properly. To accuse the Middle East of being hyprocites is silly. I suppose the next headline somewhere in the West is of how honest the politicians are?

I do not intend getting into a slanging match about politics as there are never any winners. What I will finish with is that we need to consider that many countries are all putting in an effort based on technical, financial and people resources, to now say who is better than who and comparing resources is childish. We should all be doing what we can to make things better. The effort put into this thread would have been better utilised in providing aid to the victims of the disaster.

[7x7]

From Piers Akerman’s ahe ‘Sunday Telegraph (see post on page 3): Indonesian president S.B. Yudhuyono clearly understands this message in welcoming the assistance we (the Australians and the Americans) offer. Let’s hope the Indonesian and Muslims everywhere see things so clearlySo clearly does he see ‘things’ that he’s given the Australian and American military a March deadline to be out of the country and his military is demanding that they accompany any aid shipment that goes out into the countryside.

As someone else said in an earlier post, we’ll know when ‘things’ are back to normal when Dr Mahatiar from Malaysia leads the chorus of Third World nations bad-mouthing the Americans and their South East Asian ‘deputy sheriff’ Australia. I fear we won’t have to wait too long to hear the first mutterings.