Bad News CATC March has fallen thru

[Scotsliveit]

Yes guys we all got the same call this morning. All of us March starters have been told it's an airport only course and we have until Thurs to decide to take it or not.

It's obvious that we all wanted area and are severely gutted. I've been told June but who knows. We've basically gone from a few weeks wait to possibly well over half a years wait till september.

I'm gutted, also a bit angry that hr were requesting my employers references before christmas, if I had given them my permission which I didn't I'd be up the creek.

All us Scots in glasgow who've been drinking together have received the same news. All gutted.

What's your plans now people? Anyone taking the airport course? I can't start of my new career on the wrong foot like this.

Called CATC spoke to a few people. March being all airport was in the pipeline for a couple of months but hadn't been fully ratified (still isn't apparently maybe if we all say no they'll re-access and make it area or mixed :E )

We were told to expect hiccups, doesn't help though. Gone from starting in six weeks to more than six months with no guarantee.

In the past students didn't really get a choice of area or aerodrome whereas we're getting this choice before we know enough depthabout either apart from mobility.

[foghorn]

I'm gutted, also a bit angry that hr were requesting my employers references before christmas, if I had given them my permission which I didn't I'd be up the creek.

I gave them permission and gave my employer lots of notice of leaving (small company, on excellent terms with owners so I felt I owed them a favour). My replacement joined the company about 2 hours before I got the magic call from HR this morning :uhoh: .

Eeeek.

[2Bsure2Bsure]

You must be gutted but what is the problem with airport only, your chances of passing that and still being employed at the end of the course are alot greater than if you went Area, I am sure there are lots who will disagree with me but I don't know why. Area students are getting chopped left, right and centre these days, the sooner you're out of the college with any rating the better, then you can kick off your career, thats what I reckon anyway.:D

[I'm not joking sir]

It's obvious that we all wanted area and are severely gutted.

Not me, I'm chuffed as nuts! :D Sorry for those of you that want an Area course - the wait has been a pain so I wouldn't fancy another six months.

See the other ten of you in two months! :)

(Smoggie - check your PMs.)

[sla]

From my obviously limited knowledge of ATC I think I would prefer area to airport, although I'm sure I would also be really fulfilled with an airport position. The difficulty is, especially for those with a family, relocation. You wouldn't know where you were going after an airport course. At least with area you have a pretty fair idea. I've already moved with my husband and kids, it wouldn't be fair to do it again if I had an option not to. Even if it means waiting another 6 months. :{ :{ :{

[mps12]

Course 201 was 25 area and 4 airports. There were about 10 of us who wanted Airports and Im chuffed to be one of them. If you have been told Airports, after you pass the intro course, you do have an idea of where youre going (but not set in stone). Airports is divided into:-

Aerodrome only = London Airports
Aerodrome+Approach = Regional Airports

Hope that helps, I absolutely love the aerodrome course. If I were you I would start college as soon as you can. Whichever discipline you end up doing youll love it. The longer you put off coming to college, the more in 'limbo' you will feel. Just accept the position and things may change anyway.

Best of Luck with your choices.:ok:

[foghorn]

Is anyone getting Approach only for LTCC, or do you do Approach and Area for there?

The longer you put off coming to college, the more in 'limbo' you will feel.

2.5 years since I first applied for the job and counting (and no rejections on the way) ;) :D

Sla said: The difficulty is, especially for those with a family, relocation.

That's the thing that swung area for me - having a good chance at getting Swanwick so less moves. Guess I'm going to have to reappraise things tonight with the missus.

[Van Der Hum]

Something else to consider when making this decision is that there has just been a Vacancy Notice out for valid ATCOs who want to retrain and do an Area course. Why not do a few years at an Airport and then see if you still fancy Area? As mps12 says, surely it's better to get down to the College and get going?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<It's obvious that we all wanted area and are severely gutted. >>

Good God, what's WRONG with that? At least you'll see the aeroplanes, which you'll never do in a centre. Be grateful - there are many, many people who would give their right arms to be in your position.

[Tower Ranger]

IMHO, for what its worth, you`d be mad not to take up the chance of getting A/D + APP. You`ll increase your chances of getting to work in your own part of the country and should you ever get fed up with Nats or vice versa you`ll be able to get other A/D work whereas if it doesn`t work out on the area side you`re gonna struggle.
Besides there`s a pretty good chance you`d be able to transfer from Airport to Centre work at a later stage as the staff shortages are only gonna get worse. What are the chances now of Nats letting a valid area controller go the other way.
Having seen both sides of it first hand, albeit not as a valid area controller, the chance of ending up working south of Manch with no escape would be enough to make me do A/D.

[Vlad the Impaler]

Those of you who are gutted about the March course need to take a step back, take a deep breath, get somebody close by to smack you hard around the face and then listen to this.
Area control is where it all happens, Area control is where the future is for NATS, Area control is where the money is.
Area control is damned hard work. Probably little more than half of you who start an area course will make it to validation. I went through in the days where you did aerodrome before you were streamed into approach or area. I went the area way which was what I wanted, got posted to TC after college which was what I wanted and then didn't make the final hurdle to validation. I was lucky, I already had an aerodrome ticket to fall back on and now I am happily valid at a busy london tower, If you fail the area course then you will not have that luxury. The aerodrome course ain't that tough, The approach course is more taxing (although I never did it !) but again not nearly as intense as area training. Yes, you may get poked all over the country on the airport side (Any of you guys ever hear of the scottish centre ?).
BUT
Many approach students get sent to TC to do a very fulfilling and demanding approach job (unless you get luton). The money at the smaller airports is not as good, but there are far greater opportunities for early promotion at a smaller unit. After four years valid (five if it is an ATCO 2 unit) you can get transferred to another unit (including an area course if you so desire) and try your hand at something new.

STOP PRESS
aerodrome control is fun !!!
You get to look out of the window all day and SEE the aircraft that you control, It does get busy, it is fulfilling and it still pays better than most other jobs.
You are still getting paid to train, you will be valid at least a year before your area colleagues and you will probably live significantly longer.........
I feel that you are making a grave mistake if you turn down this course on the basis of the experience that you have so far....NONE.
Go on dive in.
I promise you'll love it.
Don't come crying to me when you have failed ACS 2 for the second time, feel like an atco but are totally unemployable as one.

Think about it kids.
If you really want ATC as a career then really, really think about it.

cheers
V

[Gonzo]

Area control is where it all happens, Area control is where the future is for NATS, Area control is where the money is.

:p :p :p :p :p :p

[Vlad the Impaler]

Wassa matta Gonzo, thought you were good with Sarcasm........

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Dunno what Vlad means about Area being where it all happens.. I worked Area (abroad) and Twr/ APP/ Rad in the Uk and I'd say that Heathrow GMC on a bad day can certainly be a place "where it all happens"!

[viaEGLL]

Just be glad you have got an offer stop winging and get on with it:mad: :mad: You all know know EGLL is the centre of the universe so approach is not that bad :ok: :ok: Area is for the not so fortunate:O :O :O 10 miles instead of 3 mmmmmm

[Vlad the Impaler]

I obviously need to invest in some sarcasm lessons, too subtle ?
The point I was trying to make is that from the previous posts (by these lucky people who have had a job offer and are considering turning it down.............or deferring or whatever) is that although they all seem distraught that they have not been offered an area course, that there is indeed life outside the centres ( I know you know that Bren..) and little green crosses on 21" sony tubes are not the be all and end all.
Just take the job guys and have some fun.
and for everybody else....read the post again in sarcasm mode !!

[sla]

I sincerely doubt that anyone is considering turning down the post - I'm certainly not, it's just a bummer to have to wait a bit longer when we felt like we were nearly in there. Waiting with very little information (except what you can pick up on pprune:) ) is frustrating for everyone in the recruitment system.

Even if we all wanted airports, the course numbers have been halved(?) so some of us will have to wait longer whatever happens.

I'm going to try and be positive about waiting a bit longer and think of something interesting to do with my extra few months before it's nose to the grindstone! We've got to put it in perspective, we've all still got a place at college, we just don't know when now!:ugh:

[Gonzo]

Vlad, I was agreeing with you. :D

We airport bods are mere parking attendants when compared to Area Gods (tm).

I would recommend doing Tower/Approach to anyone. You often hear of ATCOs moving on to Area after a while at an airport, but you never ever hear of someone moving in the opposite direction.

[Vlad the Impaler]

not suggesting that anybody will give up altogether. I was just a bit surprised that so many have such strong opinions about which way they want to go before they have any idea what is involved. I know about the relocation hassle thing as I had three kids when I went through, easier for dads than mums granted. Just don't get blinkered at an early stage, take what's offered and make the best of it, either way it is a great job.
V

[Inverted81]

Guys,
If only i was in you position... i'm on the same course as MPS12 and i desperately wanted to go to airports. BUT, as he said only 2 of the 29 of us got the job and i wasn't one of them. :{

At that point i had some serious thinking whether i stayed or not....
I chose to stay.
Get down the college and get started ASAP...... any delay will always open up the potential possibility that something similar will happen to the september course. Our course "split" was changed numerous times whilst ON the intro course! Get going and get on with the job in hand!

Above all go and enjoy it!!
81:}

[Gonzo]

Yes, and remember guys that this is NATS we're talking about! How many times have they changed things for you, dates etc, in the past?

You'll probably find that if you said yes to the all-airport course, got to the induction, and find out they'd changed it to an all-area course! :ok:

[LateLandingClearance]

You'll probably find that if you said yes to the all-airport course, got to the induction, and find out they'd changed it to an all-area course!
Now wouldn't that pi$$ on your fireworks, I'm Not Joking!!

;)

[Don't Tell Him Pike]

Scotsliveit check your PMs

[Bright-Ling]

Guys and Gals....

1. Those of us who have been with NATS for a while still remember being messed around by NATS recruitment. Not nice but you will get over it!

2. Why not do Tower/Approach??? Trust me - I earn the same as the area bods and have seen a few different units and parts of the UK.

As HD/Vlad etc say - be happy to get a chance. I know people still being messed around in terms of interview dates etc........

It is not as if it is like the military - you will not get sent around the UK every three years you know - and you get a chance to do other things. Beats the 50-50 posting ballot of Scotland or abeam the Isle of Wight. (Could it get more extreme???)

Keep smiling

B-L

[rodan]

Vlad is right, his delicate words bear much truth :D

If you want a better chance of passing, go airports. Maybe no-one has told you what the drop-out rate for area is, or you have conveniently filed it away somewhere, but it is worth thinking about if you have a family. Knowing what I do now, I would be seriously uneasy about attempting the area course without the fall-back of a twr ticket (With good reason - I failed the ACS 2 course).

Take the aerodrome course. Go area later if it's what you really want.

[Lon More]

Heathrow Director At least you'll see the aeroplanes, which you'll never do in a centre.

Come to sunny Maastricht and watch the inbounds all the way to touchdown from the penthouse restroom - at the same time PPRuNeing from one of the many terminals scattered throughout the building - that's if the security gate will actually work and allow you to enter :rolleyes:

Lon More
Here before Pontius was a Pilot or Mortius a Rigger

[foghorn]

Well that's the bullet bitten. After long discussions with the missus last night, I've just reconfirmed my place on the March course. See you then if you're going, see you later if you're not!

[Banana Split]

A wise decision Foghorn and one you won't regret :ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Congrats Foghorn and sincere good wishes. Believe me, if you get to work in a busy tower, you'll soon find out what ATC is about..

[Scotsliveit]

I am back in work and seriously reconsidering. God this is awful. You are calling the area guys gods and saying that aerodrome is easier, I don't want to just take the easy option. I want to be at the cutting edge and I want to be severely challanged.

You're right It's wiser to get valid in as many things as possible and perhaps transfer to area later (but that's five years after validation then taking a pay cut to retrain)

I also won't get the £39,000 a year after validation in airport.

I want to get started ASAP but God this is some decision. Thanks for the the replies people I'm seriously thinking I notice that the majority of the replies are from airport guys though.

I'm just about to read the PM's I have received thanks for them also. I will decide by lunchtime today.

[sla]

If you really think you want to do area, then what's a 3 or 6 month wait for a whole career?

I feel the frustration as much as everyone, but the fact that it's an easier option (according to some) isn't reason enough to sell your dreams short.

I'm sure either discipline would be really exciting and rewarding, but if you go for your second choice wouldn't you always wonder?

By the way, my money's on a June start (I like to think positive;) )

Good luck with your decision, let us know.

[Scotsliveit]

I've just accepted the place on the March Airport course. I feel strange I don't know if I've done the right thing or not.

The one problem I had with the prospect of area is that I'd never see an airplane, and that I wasn't part of the airport buzz.

I wanted though to work with all the technology at swanwick with a bigger variety of people doing what is regarded as the elite cutting edge (sorry if that sounds awful) will i spend my career now with the area bods looking down their noses at me. Perhaps envying them their jobs and salary.

I can't beleive this is the way NATS recruitment works. I'd really appreciate some more info on my prospective payscales now. Also have I gone from keeping planes apart and to just directing airplanes (on the ground) around the airport and if I'm lucky getting to do approach as well (where the planes are actually in the air)

Thanks for the feedback, but SERIOUSLY I'm sitting here in the office shellshocked not knowing if I've made the right decision.

I notice that it does seem to be mainly tower controllers who post replies (is this true?)

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Maybe I am from a different generation, but the very fact that someone offered to make me an air traffiker satisfied me when I was a lad ("prospective payscales" did not feature in my equation).

Removing the cynacism, I have always personally preferred working at airfields - they seem to have more of an atmosphere.

[Inverted81]

Future area bod here! :rolleyes:
It does appear more tower guys post... in my very limited experience, the tower guys are more enthusiastic about the whole aviation thing... hence one reason why i wanted to go the tower route. Obviously this is a generalisiation, if i'm successfull at area i'll be a very enthusiastic area aviation bod.
Dunno if u guys have had much of it yet but over the last few months i've had nothing but admiration off of people who find out that i'm going to be a controller. Whichever route in the industry you take, you should feel the pride that you will hopefully have one of the most respected jobs within the industry!! Soak it up, with all the comments from the lecturers that "you're getting paid stupid amounts of money..."
live the dream.... ( :yuk: i know! :rolleyes: )

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I agree with WhippingBoy... what on earth is wrong with these people??? When I was offered a posting to Heathrow I swear that I'd have done it for nothing... the last thing on my mind was money and in any event I DID take a pay cut by £100 less per year than I was earning at Kidlington.

It worries me that these people are going to develop into those infernal whingers which frequent all ops rooms..

C'mon guys - the profession is being offered to you on a plate. Get in there.

[JuniorX]

Well, I'm an "area bod" at TC and I think you'd be mad not to take up this offer asap. As many have said before just crack on with your training and get out of the college and into the real world as quick as you can!

As for aerodrome being easier than area, I don't actually believe there's a huge amount of truth in it, especially if you get sent to LL. I've had a few skives(sorry visits !!) over to the tower and wouldn't fancy doing GMC when it gets going!! (hopefully see you soon Gonzo as we have some new trainees I can bring over!)

Whatever you guys decide, good luck and make the most of what is a great career:ok:

[Gonzo]

Us tower controllers cannot afford to do anything else on our days off except stay at home and peruse PPRuNe, whereas all those Area Gods are off on their multi-million pound yachts moored in the Solent, or jetting off first class to their second home in Tuscany or The Hamptons.

After all, we only direct airplanes (sic ) around an airport.....

:}

JuniorX, send 'em over, as many as you like! We can show 'em what real aeroplanes look like! :ok:

[VectorLine]

scotsliveit

If ATC is what you REALLY REALLY want to do and Area Control is where you REALLY REALLY want to work, why did you let yourself be bullied into taking the wrong decision?

You will have a great career in any ATC environment. Whether it be the busiest centres; ludicrously busy heathrow; complex mixed traffic at an airport with ADC/APC or an out of the way aerodrome (Duncanindevon - time to extoll the virtues of your place now!).

However, if you were set on area control, it is likely that you will spend a long time wondering if you made the right decision. After all the effort and waiting, what would it have taken to wait for the next course?

Have a rethink!

[yaffs]

have to agree with you HD
ditch the attitude dude, and stop whining , it wont go down well at any unit
i'd also go and look round an aerodrome - the phrase you used of " just directing planes round the airport " would indicate you've never bothered before
aerodrome and approach control isnt the sinecure you appear to think it is

yaffs

[Scotsliveit]

Ok Gonzo, Heathrow Director and whipping boy point taken and understood.

It was an interesting one to throw at us though. I'm looking forward to getting on with it.

"Directing planes around an airport" I don't really know Gonzo and I was being asked to decide which I have. Most of us think we have a slight idea about what area involves. Also for some reason (strange to some) had my heart set on Swanwick. Worse case prestwick which is 25 mins away from the third biggest UK city where I live now.

Two of my friends in Glasgow have signed up as well. Time to get on with it, I'm happy to hear you think we've made the correct decision.

Sorry for any ignorance I may have unintentionally shown about the airport side.

yaffs you got in just before I posted this I certainly don't think airport work is a sinecure or a wouldn't have accepted the place on the course. It's just a complete change from what I've been told and had in mind from the start.

If we ever meet you'll see my attitude is cool and I'm not a whinger (except when watching Scotland play).

[Gonzo]

Scotsliveit,

I'm glad you have taken the plunge, and if you can genuinely say in a year when you're training at a unit (perhaps even valid!) that you still think you made the wrong choice, I'll buy you a beer!

Being serious for once......

I guess it's a bit difficult for us to appreciate the choice you were asked to make on next to no information, because all of us had a basic understanding of airports v area when we chose. And when one steps back I don't think anyone could criticise what you've said, because all the initial NATS info, and even at the college, is that Area is where the action is, where the money is. Notwithstanding the fact that it's a load of old horse manure. That's because the college is very much more geared towards area than aiports.

Just think, in October I could be training you at Heathrow, while those who chose area would have only just got halfway through the college. :ok:

[Legs11]

If it's any consolation at all, I started with NATS in 1992 wanting to work at an airport. To my (then) disappointment my course was designated all area. The initial disappointment was VERY short once we got on with things, although in those days we did still do the aerodrome rating course. I then managed to flunk my training at a later stage and I'm now ADC/APR at a regional airport, so it all turned out for me. Sometimes these things just take a little time :D

My advice? Go to the college, do the course, get to your unit and enjoy!

[Ops and Mops]

scotsliveit

I think you need to re-evaluate your attitude before you start at CATC.

Air Traffic Control is all about being part of a team and there is no room for elitism. (Banter yes, elitism no! :p )

Every ATSU from Sumburgh to LACC is challenging in it's own way and you will make a lot of enemies for yourself along the way if you alienate everyone outside Swanwick before you even start at the College! The salary paid to ATCO2's at Swanwick is not as great as it sounds as the cost of living warrants the higher rate, and there is no "weighting" allowance as there used to be in London! There are many ATCO 3's at regional airports who enjoy a better standard of living than the ATCO 2's daaan saaarf due to the relative costs of living.

An ADC/APR course will stand you in good stead to work at any NATS unit in the United Kingdom except ScOACC (when TC moves to Swanwick that is!).

As far as getting your family sorted, until you are valid at an operational unit, you future is far from secure. However once valid, the chances of compulsory posting these days are slim unless your units role is moved to another unit (a la Manch to ScOACC and LATCC to Swanwick). You just need to ask the many Airport Controllers who do want a posting but cannot get one!!

If you want to go to work everyday to be busy and pushed right to the limit, Heathrow are constantly on the look out for controllers (Tower only) and there is an ongoing recruitment drive for valid ATCO's to transfer there. As has been mentioned before, there is also an ongoing trawl for valid experienced Airport ATCO's to retrain as Area Controllers.

You're right It's wiser to get valid in as many things as possible and perhaps transfer to area later (but that's five years after validation then taking a pay cut to retrain)

Not sure where you get your info on for taking a pay cut to retrain. If you move from an ATCO 3 unit to do the Area Course it is actually a promotion and you take a pay rise on transfer to the ATCO 2 scale when you start the Area Course! You dont go back to student pay!!!! :ooh:

I'd really appreciate some more info on my prospective payscales now.

Still expect to earn over £35k including shift pay when you come off the T & D scale at an ATCO 3 unit. Expect the same as Swanwick on the ATCO 2 scale.

Also have I gone from keeping planes apart and to just directing airplanes (on the ground) around the airport and if I'm lucky getting to do approach as well (where the planes are actually in the air)

Again I think you need to re-appraise yourself with the roles of Air Traffic Controllers. If you want all the gory details, have a look at Sections 1 to 4 of Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 1 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP493PART1.PDF).

Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt but I think that in your current mind set you are doing yourself a grave injustice in your future career.

Feel free to PM me :ok:

[foghorn]

B:mad: r all that, I've heard that the view's better out of the tower.

(I'll get me coat :} )

[flower]

When i think of all those people when i was going through the college who would have given their eye teeth to have down approach courses !!!!!!

I think you will find which ever discipline you do that you will enjoy it. Each has its own unique challenges. I am very lucky to do a job i enjoy, be it Aerodrome, or Area you are extremely lucky to get the opportunity to train , many don't get this far.

[Scotsliveit]

Hi Ops and Mops

Blunt is Good as long as you are giving me information which I'm thankful you have.

It's information we need. My future colleagues are reading this thread as well and trying get as much info as possible on the choice we have made.

It's all about information, I'm thick skinned and can take your bluntness in your reply it's worth it for the facts you have given myself and others.

From the begining of the recruitment procedure all we have had is area, area, area. 11 places going like hotcakes in airport at CATC you want to do it 12 hours to decide. People are making career decisions here on no information.

Believe my attitude is OK I've been part of succesful teams, business and sport most of my life.

What you experienced ATCO's say on here is very important to us. I know of 5 people who at the moment who are wondering if they done the right thing and will be reading this thread with great interest.

[Ops and Mops]

B:mad:r all that, I've heard that the view's better out of the tower.

That depends on which unit you are at and how good the windows are!!!!! :E

scotsliveit

Check your PM's

[Scotsliveit]

Here's an old interesting thread

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148593&perpage=15&highlight=Area%20vs%20Aerodrome&pagenumber=1

[Fidgell]

Strange topic this has turned into.... half of me says some need to amend attitudes to make it through their "second choice" course at the college or they may never have the chance to envy the area controllers!!!

Oh and I am an area controller who apparently isnt as enthusiastic as airport guys/gals.....

This reminds me of a postee who proclaimed his desire to move abroad having not even done his welcome meeting at Bournemouth!!!

The other side of me thinks all the whinging would make these guys fit in very well and morale is never gonna change with the atitudes instilled from before day 1.

All ill say to these folk considering their futures is why did you apply for ATC? Did you think youd get the choice anyway? Yes, I prefer area and was glad to be sent thatta way - there are benefits both ways to each side of the profession, but we're all fighting the same animal side by side so work hard and enjoy AND work hard you WILL. After all did you visit units at all? Sure youll enjoy EGPD!

If not.... join wasshisname and move abroad :p

[Jerricho]

join wasshisname and move abroad

Somebody call? :E

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Scottie, if you want an honest opinion then here you go:

Over 20 Years as an ATCO, a number of airfields (both inside and outside CAS, LARS etc), area radar, instructing and now a regulator. Enjoyed almost all of it.

My advice, go to the College, learn a fascinating profession and enjoy. If you end-up at one of the very few NATS backwaters, make the most of it, take your time and, if you are still unhappy, walk away and do something else. I am guessing, but you are probably too young to worry about the whole of the rest of your life right now.

[Jerricho]

I want to be at the cutting edge and I want to be severely challanged.

Where's my buddy ANSA? Remember hearing these words before from somebody?

Believe me Scots, which ever discipline you choose, you will be challenged from day one in the college. Unfortunately, you have chosen a career that even if a decision is written in stone and locked behind very thick glass, it can and probably will change.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread.. It appears that someone who plainly hasn't the faintest inkling of what ATC is about has been offered a place on a training course...........

Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Jerricho]

Deep breaths Bren. Think of a calm blue ocean.

I can understand your frustration though. :rolleyes: Christ, just get on a course, pass the college and validate.

[I'm not joking sir]

With all the research into ATC that everyone surely did, it must have become apparant that LACC is not the only unit that gets staff from the College. There was another big clue to this when they made us sign the mobility agreement at the first stage of recruitment!

Granted it's unusual to ask us to decide what course we'd like so early on but if people feel so strongly against a particular part of ATC, why apply? It's made clear that you could end up doing anything.

All of us on our way to the College applied to be Student ATCOs not Area or TWR ATCOs. The guys I work with know only too well that I want to stay in the Airport side of ATC. However, they also know how happy I'd have been had I got an Area course because they know how much I want to be
an ATCO.

I'm glad that some of you have deigned to join the rest of us on the March course. We're obviously very lucky as the "shellshock" of having the "area bods looking down their noses" at us must have made it doubly hard to accept such an inferior course/career path/the job you applied for!

Seriously though, we are going to have to work so so hard to get through so please try and spend the next two months getting 100% up for it. If anyone goes to the College with attitudes that have been displayed on this thread you're going to make it harder for the rest of us not just yourself.

[sla]

I think all this talk of bad attitudes is a bit much - I really, really want to do ATC and have done for more than 10 years. It's a pain for those of us who feel we have to wait another 3/6 months, but actually overall isn't it a good thing for some? I mean all the talk is normally of people who had their hearts set on airports and then have to do area (and most seem to end up loving it). At least this means anyone really wanting airports knows they will get to do it!!!

Good luck to 'the few' starting in March - does anyone know how many of you there are?

Just think - all those planes you get to look at.:D

[Bern Oulli]

Well, I have read some threads in my time on Pprune, and some postings have been from some right half-wits. However, some of the offerings on this thread absolutely astound me. I cannot recall so many people with an obvious "attitude" problem. I wonder what on earth our recruitment people are doing letting some of these prima donnas in. Get a grip you guys. ATC is a bloody good job - IMHO the best there is. As others have remarked, it doesn't matter where you do it or in what discipline, it is always a challenge and always satisfying. And you can change horses in mid-stream without a pay cut.

All I can say is that I am damn glad I have retired from instructing, otherwise I could see myself losing my temper with some peeps around early March. However, my colleagues are very capable of spotting an obvious prat (or two).

[Fidgell]

There you go guys.... from one of the best, longest standing and most respected instructors in the biz.

As Pedro says, he'd weed out the ones not commited and so will the rest of the team... seems like youve got 2 months to sort out your priorities and really decide... do you REALLY want to do the job or are you after something else?

Trust me, its hard no matter which side of the terminal youre in, I just hope NATS havent wasted time and money when some folk who didnt get this far may have been a better bet!

In 18months time youll know what we meant here and youll either move on to validation training (where some of US may have to decide if youve got IT and we could work along side you) or youll be wondering how you wasted one of the most enjoyable and lucrative careers around.

We're a big close knit team youre trying to join - maybe some could try somewhat harder. 100% is 100%

Good Luck those who sound commited.

[gilaine]

For what it's worth, I thought I'd throw my twopenneth in...

I've seen some really helpful posts on this forum since going through the application process but in the past couple of months the recruitment-themed threads have gotten... well, depressing.

A few months ago and during the previous round of acceptances it was all optimism and looking forward to getting stuck in, now all I ever see is resentment and moaning. Myself and my colleagues on course 202, and those throughout the college and even NATS as a whole, it seems, know how annoying it can be to try to get into this line of work. We've all been there. It's a long process, things chop and change, you never really know what's going on.
But what did you expect? A walk in the park? We're talking about a career that is described by the vast majority of those who do it as 'the best job in the world'. Of course it's going to be tough getting in. And getting through college, for that matter.

I know you're all cheesed off at being 'forced to choose' but you're missing the point - you're doing the choosing! Not many previous courses had that luxury, including 202 (though luckily for us the [provisional] numbers line up with what we want). Even if the numbers didn't add up I'm pretty sure there's not a TATC among us who'd turn down ANY position as an ATCO, because it's WHAT WE WANT TO DO! You've got the golden ticket for god's sake, grab it and run with it!

I don't know, stick me on top of a hill with a radio and MATS 1&2 and I'll be perfectly happy. Where has all the enthusiasm gone?


G

[Loki]

Most of us who have spent any time at all in this business know how quickly things change. It`s part of the territory....if you can`t cope with that, then don`t join.

When I did my course (all disciplines) we were asked where we wanted to be posted to towards the end of the 3 years. A near contemporary of mine made a bid for Hurn (CAA/Nats still provided the service then) Guess where he got posted? Sumburgh!!

My final posting was decided with typical quirkiness: I was stopped in the high street of the town nearest to my area unit by my boss and told I had 2 days to get to my posting (not my first choice). Since then, I`ve had all manner of unwelcome developments....unwanted transfers, watch changes.....you name it.

If you are any kind of Nats ATCO, you will learn to roll with the punches, and watch diligently for the "angles"; there will always be opportunities to make what seem to be negative developments work for you. Some are better than others at this, but I`ve had my successes.

My advice? Go for it! If you really want to do area work, you will probably have the opportunity later on.

[dannyo]

Hear hear gilaine, i couldn't agree more mate!

I for one have waited 2 and a bit years to get a place at CATC and wouldn't give it up for the world.

I can't believe how lucky i am to be here. The course is fantastic and I can't wait to get operational!

You've got to remember that you have beaten at least 40 people to get the place you have at CATC!!! Feel, lucky, feel proud.......get the :mad: on with it!!

You won't be disappointed!

[sr562]

Hi all,

As one of scotsliveits friends i have to put in a good word for him.
I too am on the march aerodrome course, and was asked to make the decision without really knowing a great deal about either roles.

Im sure he's not whinging about the job but more the way we have been treated, and im sure once you guys meet him you will find him a good guy.

All of us on the march course were put on the spot and asked to make a decision, without knowing all the facts, and basically told that we could 'like it or lump it'. So please forgive us for feeling a little disgruntled at the way NATS have treated us, but it was the way it was done rather than what was done that got me.

Anyway my decision has been made now, and im looking forward to getting to CATC, and getting stuck in to the work.

:cool:

[Shermanator]

...up until about 2 minutes ago, you were told you had a place at the college, and that was that.

Not 'til 7/8/9 months into the courses did we get an inkling as to whether you would go ACC or APC.

Suggest you all don't sign mobile grade on the form, cross it out and write "Just NERC please, many thanks", and see what happens. (to be fair they probably wouldn't notice, but that's not the point!)

You should have all known that you could get any discipline, anywhere, or not have bothered applying, as it would cause all this "heartache".

Pretty simple, and now such a hoohah's been made, there'll be a close eye on you at CATC!!

Good mate of mine didn't drop a mark on his approach course, asked for BB or CC, got LC. Thats the NATS way, as i'm sure you're all used to, having got through the recruitment minefield.

Good luck anyway, it's a brilliant job, hard graft for the first 2years (on average!), then truly enjoyable, until they cart you away to Prestwick!!

[Gonzo]

SR462.

As has been mentioned above, the rest of us didn't really get a choice, and we didn't have the option to defer if we didn't want what was offered.

From what I hear, I think NATS have treated you all pretty well. They could have been well within their rights to not tell you or give you any choice at all, and just inform you that you were all going to area when you got to the College.

[ILS 119.5]

All ratings are different. There are different techniques involved with each one. I've got all 5 from the old days. My advice is approach/tower, but this what I personally prefer. Seeing the a/c and tight vectoring. I was advised when I worked as an assistant at LATCC to do area if we had to choose, luckily made to do the lot. With area you are limited to your destination either Swanick or eventually Prestwick. If you do tower/approach then you can work anywhere in the country. Or even with the new harmonised licences work abroad. This is only my view from experience and what I prefer, many controllers will disagree as they prefer the centres. Also as somebody posted earlier, the success rate is higher for tower/approach. I'm not saying easier, as all disciplines are different. Take the course and get your foot on the ladder of a great career. If it doesn't work out come and fly it's easier.
Rgds ILS 119.5

[Jerricho]

but more the way we have been treated

As much as I hate to say it, I'm sure if you conducted a survey of ATCOs around the world, there would be a considerable number who have made massive sacrifices, has decisions regarding their future made for them and have had a bit of a rough ride.

As harsh as it sounds, the general consensus is stop your bitching and get on with it.

[halo]

I can't believe I'm hearing some of this tripe:mad:

Some points that you should bear in mind if you come into the world of Air Traffic Control, be it Aerodrome, Approach or Area :

1) You are damn lucky to have a job in this day and age. If you are moaning about money then you will soon be very very unpopular with all the support people that work around you in ATC. If you want to earn millions then bugger off and be a banker or a lawyer or something

2) If some of you come to out to the Airports side with an "I never asked to be here attitude" then you will very soon find out that you won't be there for very long...... and you will also find yourself out of a job. The days of re-assigning people to different units are long gone. Very few people get a second chance!!

3) Just because you have passed the selection and been offered a place doesn't mean that you are all of a sudden an "aviation specialist" and gives you the right to blather about things you know nothing about. One visit to LACC or EGLL does not make you an expert!!

4) If you are coming into this job purely for monetary reasons then think again. The majority of people who pass the courses and make good, productive controllers are the people who have a genuine interest in aviation and the business in which they are providing a service. I stand by everything that Pedro (Bern) has posted and he is completely correct. We WILL weed you out one way or another!

5) If you think this is bad then wait until you get options for postings for those of you that actually manage to get through CATCC. If you think you are joining NATS, passing the course and getting free rein as to where you go then think on. The number of people who get posted to the unit of their choice is very very small at the moment. If you end up somewhere you don't want to be and you make with the attitude then this will be very quickly picked up by your OJTIs and your Head Of Training and I can tell you for free that we do not put up with trainees who give us sh1t. Not with millions of pounds worth of jets and lots of lives screaming about around us!

6) For those of you who get in, aren't really bothered about whether you end up Area, Approach or Aerodrome, and you aren't bothered which unit you end up, then welcome to NATS. You are the people who will find that this is the most rewarding, demanding, exciting, fun, interesting, unusual, surprising career that you can possibly embark on :ok: Its going to be a lot of hard work for you, but take it from me and all the other people who work operationally at whatever unit, it is totally 100% worth it!!

[ILS 119.5]

Halo,

Well said, I had no Idea where I would end up. But my first need was to pass the course and work in aviation. It was hard work but well worth it and I agree that certain members assume it will be a walk in the park. I remember on my course that certain cadets felt that it was priviledge to be on the course, others viewed it the other way round, most of the latter failed. As time passes your needs and ambitions change, hence now flying. I think from my course about 6 of us are flying commercially.

[foghorn]

Honest direct opinions and the odd harsh words. I guess that's what pprune's been about over the years.

Being a March bod, rightly or wrongly I feel tarred by the brush of what has been said, for the record the only reason I had a preference of Area was a practical one. It would have given the highest chance of minimum disruption for my wife and her career as a Swanwick posting would mean one less move; what with junior Foghorn #1 who is due in April in the picture as well (that will let anyone from the college positively ID me now from the bags under my eyes come April!)

I owed it to her to consult with her as she and junior will be just as affected as me by the closing off of the Swanwick option, so I didn't snap HR's hand off there and then, I waited until she got home.

I am over the moon that I have been selected for a place with NATS and am desperate to get to college, I have been ever since that magic acceptance letter dropped through the door almost a year ago now. Thankfully she understands this, so March it is; I've already put off a December course so that I don't have to leave her on her own heavily pregnant so she agrees with me that I shouldn't delay any longer. The decision having been made I was on the phone first thing this morning to make sure I got one of the 10 places going.

I'll be delighted with whatever course and posting I get - there are pros and cons to all of them from what I with my limited knowledge can work out, and I'm sure the pros will outweigh the cons wherever I get sent, added with the elation of finally doing what I am told is the best job in the world!

[Bucking Bronco]

Oh my God!

Well I figured out what all the blank messages are on the house phone are then.

Smoggie, my flatmate (due for the March course) is overseas at the moment and getting back in tomorrow morning! Wait till she gets my voice mail.

Funny thing is that she first of all wanted TWR but having had a couple of visits and chats she says she can see the good things in both sides.

Hopefully she can get in touch with HR today and clarify her place.

Halo/Heathrow Director I will also keep my fingers crossed that she does a bit of training at EGLL - that's where I work too (I'm one of the knackered voices you hear first thing in the morning saying "No course we don't have a landing time restriction")

Cheers

BB

[flower]

An interesting point made by Halo which i would wish to add to.
Our very first day of introduction at Bournville we were all asked why we wanted to be an ATCO. I remember it all too well, those who said they liked the money to a person never made it through either the college or validation training.

When you get through the college those of you bemoaning the fact that you haven't got the discipline you wanted will soon realise what an enormous team ATC is let alone NATS. Your colleagues wont just be the people sat beside you they will be at the end of a phone line sometimes in a different country, you will find your colleagues may be non NATS. You soon realise that it makes no difference what discipline you have and how we all work as a team.
I was a lucky one I had a choice, my original choice would have been that of an area controller but when realising I had a choice decided upon the Aerodrome Approach path . I have never once regretted it as I am sure i equally wouldn't have done had I chosen the area path.

Once you are training I am quite sure you will feel rather foolish for having even thought about raising the issue in the first place.

[Scotsliveit]

Well looks like there's been alot of Judging and presumptions being made about me and others.

'Close eye' mmm that's quite worrying. Is that the way it works? I'm not going to be inflamatory in this reply but here goes:

1/ Never claimed to be an aviation expert, constantly asked for information.

2/ Attitude good, 100% ready. Would have prefered to have been on a normal course. Had an Introduction exposure to both streams, had a valid opinion of where I wanted to go and then went where I was placed like everyone else has in the past.

3/. MONEY Not my motivation at all. If it was I'd stay in my present well paid position and not embark on the fascinating challenging adventure ahead.

4/ Don't call me a PRAT

5/ I probably know the same about ATC as anyone else in my position (very little, surface stuff). I received a phone call first thing Tues morning and was asked to decide the next 6/7 years of my ATC career with solely this surface knowledge. Asked advice, was Judged and given stick(by some). Mmm Ok

One of my friends took too long to decide and missed his place.

6/ I have enthusiatically accepted the offer after advice from ATCO's of varying experience including those on here and my own thoughts.

I cant wait to start and will now sell my home when I sign the dotted line.

I and my friends thank you all for your advice.

[Smoggie]

Well guys, what can I say.

I get home from work to a message from my flatmate telling me to check out this thread as the March course was going to be TWR/APP only. Cool, fantastic. After over a year and a half of waiting I just want a start date! I then open a letter from NATS telling me my course has been cancelled and I might get a course in Jun or Sep 05.

As I've already handed in my notice at work - HR confirmed me on the Mar 05 course last August - I've now got to try and persuade them to have me back or find some sort of temporary work for 3 or 6 months.

Apparently a course of 36 was whittled down to 11, but there was no fair system such as date of application used, it was just names out of a hat!

So if any of you guys still have any doubts about whether you'd prefer area, feel free to do me a favour and take a later course so I can have your spot!!

a very p***ed off smoggie :(

[Smoggie]

Bloomin 'eck, that were quick!

Well I dont know which one of you decided you'd prefer area but I've just had a call saying I'm back on the March course - wahey!

Although must admit think I'll be having anxiety attacks everytime the phone goes or a letter from NATS arrives until I'm sat in that classroom on the 7th!

a very happy smoggie :D

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<I probably know the same about ATC as anyone else in my position (very little, surface stuff)>>

One assumes that at the interview someone asked you why you wanted a career in ATC? I'd be interested to know what you replied.

[foghorn]

Nice one smoggie. See you in March!

[Fidgell]

Congratulations Smoggie and others starting in March - and all the best of luck, and I hope those who feel unjustly judged etc learn a vital lesson before the sims start, and one which carries on throughout your trainee career... Whenever your mentor gives advise, criticism etc ACCEPT IT, the worst and sadly a very common thing trainees say to me is " I was just going to do that " or " it wasnt me " etc, excuse...

Its a busy world in ATC and the time isnt there to hold hands and mollycodle folk along. If you make a mistake just shut up, learn from it and most of all dont do it again.

We may seem harsh and/or abrupt but thats just the way things are and id love to be everyones friend but that aint my job and i only wanna work with able,motivated and receptive trainees as theyre gonna be my peers one day.

Take note and again the very best for march... youll love it!

[Scotsliveit]

Congratulations Smoggie see you there.

Heathrow Director : You'd be interested to know what I replied when asked why I wanted a career in ATC. Why do you want to know that Sir?

I get the impression you're trying to pick a fight with me.


If you're SINCERE I'll PM you and tell you what I honestly told my recruiter. And why I want this career. I read all my recruitment documentation from cover to cover and learned it. I've done my own research outwith this as well. I was sincere, honest, enthusiastic and motivated my recruiter saw this and hired me.

I know this is just the surface and I'll learn much more at CATC, alot more as I work to validate, even continually more once valid.

You through no knowledge of me and this amazing internet medium have judged otherwise apparently.

I've had dozens of PM's of support and advice which I am truly thankful of and have forwarded on to my friends.

[Fidgell]

That didnt take long....

Remember, make a mistake dont then compound it!!!

Nice to see the fishin rod still works.

[Scotsliveit]

haha yep I did nibble at the bait

[Inverted81]

Time to lay this to rest...
People will get disgruntled, annoyed and generally pi$$ed off with this thread.
People are making many assumptions about each other (both ways!)
Forget it, now, that things have been decided.
First lesson:
REMAIN "GREY" and stay outta trouble.
The more this goes on guys, the worse it could potentially get

Mr mod: time to close you think?
:cool:

81

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Heathrow Director : You'd be interested to know what I replied when asked why I wanted a career in ATC. Why do you want to know that Sir?

I get the impression you're trying to pick a fight with me. >>

God God, man, I wouldn't pick a fight with anyone - how bizarre that you should even think such a thing. It just amazes me some of the comments you have made and I find it truly astonishing that someone who appears to know so little about ATC would a) think of applying for the job and b) would have been accepted! That's all.

I wish you well and hope you derive as much satisfaction as I did from 35 years in the job. I retired 2 years ago but would give my right arm to be back working a busy tower or be behind a radar tube again.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Scotsliveit I suggest you try and temper your temper. HD is one of the nicest men I have ever come across in my 34+ years in this job.

Think before jumping !

[Jerricho]

One of my friends took too long to decide and missed his place.

It's comments like this that are causing disbelief and a little animosity. Took to long and missed his place. WTF?? That's nuts.

[BEXIL160]

5/ I probably know the same about ATC as anyone else in my position (very little, surface stuff). I received a phone call first thing Tues morning and was asked to decide the next 6/7 years of my ATC career with solely this surface knowledge

I think this is what HD was referring too, and I must say it got my gander up a touch as well.

It would appear then that you haven't done enough preparation for your chosen career. Enough maybe to satisfy the HR mob, but they aren't ATC experts and nor have they covered themselves in glory with the quality of applicants THEY have selected.

Appearances can be deceptive, but to admit that you only have "surface" knowledge going in doesn't bode well. That you didn't jump at the opportunity, any opportunity, to be involved in ATC in any capacity whatsoever raises the question of commitment in many experienced ATCOs eyes.

Just as a quick question. Do most applicants today KNOW the (current) phoenetic alphabet before they start the college? I'm intrigued by what "surface knowledge" they think IS required.

Best rgds (to all)
BEX

[Tower Ranger]

Scotsliveit,

Surely if you re-read your original post you cannot be surprised at some of the responses that you have recieved.

" Its obvious that we all wanted area and are severely gutted "

With this one sentence you have instantly dismissed the careers of a thousand ATCO`s and yet you still got people posting and PM`in you pretty honest advice from their own experiences.

What I find hard to understand is how with your admitedly limited knowledge, as we all had, you were able to decide that you could only stomach Area control. I share HD`s amazement at some of what you have posted.

As a matter of interest what is your present occupation?

[sla]

I would say I have a limited knowledge of ATC, as I believe that saying anything else when I have not yet worked in the industry would be really arrogant.

I have had a number of days of work experience at Luton airport (albeit a few years ago), visits to West Drayton, LACC and Southampton tower & approach. I have read all the books I can get my hands on, re-read them over and over. I have thoroughly studied all information sent to me by NATS and of course I have had the odd plane spotting excursion and listened in over the radio!

I have also started learning airplane types and have read PPL books.

I didn't do/am not doing all this just to get into college - it's fascinating stuff and I'm really thrilled to have the opportunity to train for this really rewarding career. And I do know my phonetic alphabet - that's the easy bit;)

I don't want to get anyone's back up. I'm very, very keen and I want to give myself the best chance of success at this. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Yes I'm not going to get to start til June, but I've waited long enough for this, waiting another 3 months doesn't mean I want it any less.

I will be thinking of the 10/11 starters on March 7th though and no doubt will feel a bit jealous, I'll meet you later though:ok:

[Bern Oulli]

sla Nice one. Keep learning the aircraft types and their performance figures, although take some of the manufacturer's figures with a pinch of salt. They will try to tell you that something like the good old SH36 has a ceiling around FL250 or something equally ridiculous. Fair play with a test flight crew and no pax but you will never see one "in the flesh" above FL100 (why not?).

<pedant mode>
An "airplane" is an aerial device that flies around America. In the UK we have "aircraft" and "aeroplanes". Lose 1 mark in your next progress test.
Hey I even managed to bring America into the thread!
</pedant mode>

[Scotsliveit]

As Sla says we know the Phonetic alphabet.

Never be as arrogant to say I have more than surface knowledge of ATC even after all the studying I've done. Done enthusiatically and not just for college.

Hey but judgement on myself and others has been signed sealed and delivered.

This threads going nowhere now. Finito. The advice of experienced ATCO's in the earlier part of the thread was taken on board gratefully, considered and acted upon.

edited to say: Think I'll be limping home from this computer terminal tonight. Ah well if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger.

[Jerricho]

Hey but judgement on myself and others has been signed sealed and delivered.

I really hope you don't think you're being hard done by, especially chucking your toys out of the pram like that.

Good luck.

[Scotsliveit]

Ach I'm OK, cheers Jerricho.

Very excited.

[Jerricho]

Good. Now head down, arse up and pass the course, and get your licence.

[Gonzo]

head down, arse up

And I thought you were such a nice young man, Jer!

Good luck Scots :ok:

[Jerricho]

I only say that cause I hear you and Jets have got their OJTI tickets. :E

[Gonzo]

Been an OJTI for years, mate!

That's why I'm nearly bald!!! :{

[stevethescotspilot]

Ah jeez my heart is pounding...

Due to not having my phone on me yesterday thanks to the fact I was working in Heathrow, I was unable to call HR and confirm my place on the March course.

And when I phoned them first thing this morning, they told me my place had been given to someone else. (Today is the day we were told to inform them of our decision on, by the way).

Anyway, four hours later and I get another phone call asking if I still want March...

OF COURSE I F***ING DO!!!

So now I am on the March course as originally planned, and ready to to get stuck right into some of the most challenging and rewarding work I could ever imagine doing, area or no area. Hehe I like looking at planes... besides, I visited EGLL tower on the day of my medical a couple of months ago and the buzz was unbelievable... watching GMC in action left me wanting more!

These last couple of days have scared the hell outta me, as I realised just how precarious our situation is as wannabe students. I think we need to get ourselves the security of actually joining NATS as soon as possible... until that happens we're nothing to the company.

And lay off scotsliveit. I'm getting very angry reading some of the replies on this thread. Personally I know that the guy is living and breathing ATC, and just as excited to start this career as the rest of us, and have been stung by the amount of criticism he has received for being brave enough to ask the questions we all had to ask. This came out of the blue, remember.
We all now appreciate the opportunity we have been given here, and that this could work out very well, and besides, we want to become ATCOs no matter what! I even went out and rented Pushing Tin when I first applied for god's sake! If that isn't sacrifice then what is!;)

Believe me, we are all grateful to still be on the March course. Me probably more so because it looked like it had been snatched away from me without me even knowing it.

Smoggie- I know what you mean about not being able to relax until we're there. I've got the exact same feeling now. Keep expecting HR to phone me and tell me there's been a mistake!

Let us prove to all you future colleagues out there just how much we want to be working beside you...

Cheers to all!

[gilaine]

Interesting that you should ask about the phonetic alphabet, it brought to mind something that might come in useful for any applicants out there with a few months to spare.

When I decided to apply I started looking around for aviation things to do while I was going through the application (no assumptions on getting in of course, but once I'd made my mind up I would have kept applying until they told me to stop). Having worked at MAN leaving school in a very non-aviation capacity as a hotel receptionist, I'd met a couple of people who suggested I try my hand at dispatch for a while. After waiting around for the summer to kick off I got my clipboard and started back at MAN as a dispatcher for one of the handling agents (not mentioning any names but it was the big one).

Okay, so the pay was horrendous, the hours were terribly antisocial and the company itself... not the most organised outfit you could work for. But I enjoyed every minute of my 7 months there and it helped me out a lot.

If you really want to see what goes on at an aerodrome, I'd highly recommend it. One of the other girls on my course worked for another handling agent for a couple of years. It pays off, and the good thing is that it's flexible and temporary so you can leave whenever you want to start at CATC!

If anybody's remotely interested, check out the forum (though there's not much recruitment on it, or PM me and I'll tell you everything I can.

(Maybe we can kick this thread back on to the productive side...?)

[Yellow Snow]

Because all the passengers would need oxygen tanks??

Do I get any merit marks????

[foghorn]

This is interesting - several people have been told that all the places on the course have gone, only to be phoned a few hours later and told that they have a place.

Either a few people have changed their minds about March after initially saying yes, or the course is getting bigger again :confused:

[BEXIL160]

Gilaine...

Working as a dispatcher.. Now that IS a very, very good idea, and I agree that it would stand any applicant in good stead.

Thanks for sharing that info. Hopefully it will not go unnoticed.

Best rgds
BEX

[Fidgell]

You say some of the early replies had useful info and help?

I think some of the later replies, particularly from VERY experienced ATCOs and one of Bournemouths best instructors - on the Approach/Aerodrome side you didnt want so badly, hold some crucial points that will move this forward.... as you say finito!!!

Think weve been told to shut up guys..... look forward to maybe training you in the future and see how CATC went!

Guess it must be easy to wind all of us up!!!:mad:

[Billy Onions]

Well bugger me. Billy pesters HR and finally gets his medical and security form done, he then threatens his ex employers with tribunal due to shocking behaviour - he then sits with fingers crossed hoping that that June start might become the March he was hoping for......

Well christ - he's back after kissing various elderly relatives over the joyous season and what welcomes him? A bloody Gas bill, an Electricity bill, a letter from NATS stating all courses are up the spout and this whopping thread. I ask you - where's a DeLorean and an eighties film star when you need them. Back to the bloody agencies on Monday then.


Billy Onions



PS: I am interested what's gone on though - because throughout my recruitment the story has been that most will go to area and there are shortfalls everywhere - so I'm a bit worried as to the future of ATCO recruitment if this sea-change is anything to go by - anyone any clue as to what's going on? Are NATS now over-subscribed or what? Happy New Year by the way.

[Fidgell]

BillyOnions, sorry to hear that - I know how serious you are about this and i can assure you NATS will never be oversubscribed and always needs more good ATCOS.

The problem is a lack of training places at units, and in recent years guys/gals have been left around holding for spaces on course modules and even live training... not the best way to train as constancy and continuity are very desirable in anybodys training for success.

NATS has made several awful errors in training and recruitment over the years which leaves us in the shortages we currently have in every ops room and most tower/approach facilities.

Its never been an easy process, although it sounds like its even worse. All we can say is keep pluggin away and they will come!!! Dreadful situation to be unemployed over it, but how about some of the advise seen here and get down the airport and try to find summat to suit your interests in the meantime??? Gotta be worthwhile... Good luck

[Phantom99]

I have been reading this thread with interest...I'm about 6 weeks from finishing Area 2 and have to say that although when I first started at CATC two years ago I would have preferred an Approach/aerodrome course I wouldn't change my current situation for anything, even if family precedent says otherwise :D.

I get paid for learning how to talk to aircraft (ok maybe a little more complicated than that ;) ), I get paid for reading about aircraft and air traffic control (not the most exciting books but it keeps me busy) and I also get paid £440 a month to live in Bournemouth and an occasional trip home to Devon....how could I possibly complain?

I have been subject to some interesting decisions regarding postings during OJT, holding etc, and although I didn't like the potential outcome I would have followed orders - NATS pays us so I guess they can tell us what to do and where to go? or have I missed something? (as it happened, a couple of friendly chats with various people including Graham sorted the situation).

The past two years have been the best of my life, I've met some great people (even the instructors aren't too bad :) ) and to be honest I don't even think about my job as 'work'.

I've seen quite a few courses start since I joined in Mar 2003 and of course attitudes vary, although the most successful courses certainly seem to be the ones who keep their heads down and work hard without making waves - I heard someone complaining this week they are annoyed that their time at the college might be extended by a month...some people on my course have been here for about three years...just stop complaining, get on with it, use the college time as a great way to learn as much as possible about ATC and you will fly through.

...and please try to get on with your fellow college students, the December course have really made an effort and I am sure it has been noticed by the instructors, who might just make that little extra effort if they think it will be reciprocated.

Anyway, sorry for waffling, I want to congratulate those who are starting in the next year, and look forward to meeting you at some point in the future.

[Gonzo]

even if family precedent says otherwise

There's no accounting for taste! ;)

I have to agree with Phantom99 on his point about keeping your heads down and concentrating on getting on with people and getting the work done.

At the end of the day we all know ATCOs who knew next to nothing about ATC when they started, and through good manners, keenness to learn and hard work are now valid and competent.

On the other hand I've met one or two people on visits to Heathrow (either while at CATC or during selection) who came knowing quite a bit of theory, and almost seemed quite arrogant, to the extent they started criticising pilots while they were listening in with me, when I'd explain what I was doing they'd either say 'I knew that.....yeah, that's obvious...' or start talking to their friend and ignore me! Now, you might well know more than me, you might have done some virtual Heathrow GMC on the internet, but I don't think that's the correct attitude to have when you're training. It certainly wouldn't have helped if I had ever or will ever train them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that what you do or do not know when entering this career is not as important as how you go about it.

PS And before I get flamed by anyone on VATSIM, I must just say that this case was the exception, and virtually everyone I've met through it by hosting visits, have been great.:ok:

[I'm not joking sir]

Bad news.

The nurses' accommodation at Bournemouth Hospital is full.

A sad day.

:{ :{ :{

[Jerricho]

The nurses' accommodation at Bournemouth Hospital is full.

Where's my buddy Aluminium Importer? He's probably got a few contacts ;)

[folkyphil]

I've not had much time to browse PPRuNe of late, and have just picked-up this thread.
Suffice to say that way back in 1971 I was more than delighted to get a place on No. 21 Course at "The College".
In those days it was nigh on a 3-year course encompassing Aerodrome, Approach and Area competencies.
There was never any thought of whingeing about future postings; we were simply proud of being selected to do the job, wherever that may have taken us.
We didn't have any option as to postings, and I cannot think of anyone who resigned as a result of being posted to a unit which may not have been the individuals' first choice.
Incidentally, I dropped-off of the course for medical reasons, but still did another 30 years as an ATSA at LATCC.