Non-published holds

[bookworm]

A question in "another place" prompts me to ask:

1) How often are non-published holds used in the UK? In W Europe?

2) When issuing a hold other than as published, what phraseology would you use to instruct a hold on a N-S inbound axis north of the XYZ VOR (with the inbound leg of the hold terminating at the VOR)?

[niknak]

To answer your question in reverse order, unless I had the benefit of very good radar to oversee the hold, I wouldn't use an unpublished holding pattern in the FIR.
Where a hold is published and in the FIR, the vast majority, but not all, operators make a concerted effort to stay away from it unless they are in RTF contact with the pertinant approach control unit.

When operating inside controlled airspace, using an upublished holding pattern can cause many problems for both yourself and adjacent units, and I would think that it's a very rare occurance.

[Spitoon]

Can't answer your general question about how often unpublished holds are used but I can certainly confirm that I have used them on a good number of occasions. The circumstances vary but much of the time they've been outside CAS.

In most cases it's less me instructing the pilot to take up a particular hold but more an agreement reached between me and the pilot.

To give an example, an aircraft waiting for clearance to enter an airway that has just about reached the airway boundary - the aircraft can't continue so ther options are limited. The aircraft can orbit or can fly a hold. Bear in mind that many aircraft can set up a standard holding pattern in any position and along any axis - being a mere controller I don't know how it's done but it appears very quick to do in some aircraft. If the pilot can't do this easily then he/she can orbit. Either way, I'm going to keep a close eye on the aircraft and what's going on around it.

Another example. An inbound aircraft waiting for weather improvement might want to set up a hold on the extended centreline so that if the vis picks up it can turn onto the approach quickly (or may even be on it) rather than having to fly a full procedure from the fix. OK, it's not a technique that is suitable for every environment and time but it can be done. Once again, I would do it only after discussing it with the pilot and I would keep a close eye on things

[DFC]

CAP 413 page 95.

Regards,

DFC

[055166k]

In the unlikely event......keep it simple:-
Hold at XYZ, inbound 180, right hand [ or left...] pattern.
Pilot may ask for extended legs, I'd expect a 4 minute pattern but sides could be 1minute and a half or 2 minutes...giving a 5 minute or 6 minute hold.
Problem with non-standard holds [ if they are not radar monitored] is the procedural separation from other holding patterns.
Another problem in the UK is that non standard holding appreciation is no longer taught.......you can hold anywhere....but you have to be aware of the consequences.
Don't need a beacon either.....if you have a convenient point in the FMS I could offer " hold at bloby, inbound on present track [ or any convenient track], right/left hand [as appropriate] ".......remember this is a non-standard situation......keep it simple and help the pilot as much as possible..i.e. don't talk him to death...he is probably quite busy!

[Cartman's Twin]

Hiya Bookworm

I generally work with a/c within CAS and if there's an appropriate published hold, then you'd use it. Keeps things simple especaily for foreign pilots. There are circumstances where you can make up a hold. For example when sudden bad weather gives you no other options(!) and the following a/c have already passed an outer hold, or if weather is centred on the normal hold then you can hold at an offset to the original. Either way it's rare but not unheard of.

If you have to make a new hold the main thing is to keep it simple using the examples above, or in my experience - "Take up a RH hold in your present position, present axis, 2 minute legs" Words to that effect.

Outisde CAS I'd just tell an a/c to remain clear.