Thank you, Pennine!

[HugMonster]

It sounded like London were having a bad day today, from conversation with Pennine...

In discussion with my F/O, we agreed that far and away our favourite unit to work is Pennine Radar. They are unfailingly helpful and friendly, the service excellent and professional, and a pleasure to work.

Thanks, guys and gals!

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Breeding Per Dementia Unto Something Jolly Big, Toodle-pip

[250 kts]

Your opening line says it all- conversation with Pennine. Well I'm glad they had the time to chat because the poor souls at LATCC certainly didn't. We were at max capacity all day with ,as usual, too few staff to cope adequately.

[chiglet]

Hug,
As a Pennine assistant, all I can say is
"Thank you"
We aim to please

[nemo]

For 250's info , much of Pennine's (aka Manchester) RT has to be in conversational form to describe the activity going on around it's traffic and completely out of it's control.
You need a steady nerve and a good line in patter to do the job :)
Glad the service is appreciated , thanks.

[expeditor]

well said 250,i dont got to work to be some pilots fav sector, just to provide a safe and efficient sector. I guess cos we dont have time to "chat" to pilots means were not as good as some.

[Big Nose1]

Good to see the mutual respect and togetherness continues post PPP, sadly a few LATCC ATCO`s are so self absorbed that they believe there own hype!!! Every unit has its own difficulties and if aircrew whant to thank Pennine then let us all thank them and get on with our own jobs.

[HugMonster]

Hmmm...

Seemed to touch a few raw nerves there. I didn't use the word "chat". That was 250, who seems to have very little idea what goes on outside his world.

The word I used was "conversation". That's what goes on on the RT. If all you see being passed is a string of instructions and acknowldgements, then perhaps you could examine your attitude to the relationship between ATC and aircraft. Perhaps the difference in attitude comes over on the RT, which is why we felt that Pennine is one of the friendliest units around...?

And because I take the trouble to thank one particular unit for the service we receive doesn't mean that we don't appreciate all you other hard-working people out there. It simply means that some units go beyond simply "doing their job" and take a little trouble to be polite, friendly and helpful.

I appreciate that this is not always possible for many units, and that you are all, to one degree or another, under pressure, often a lot of pressure. But unless you're on PPRuNe from work in your coffee break, leave the attitude at work - you're not under pressure here, so can it, ok?

I have seen what goes on in the radar room @ MAN, and at quite a few other units. so if you're LHR or LATCC, you have no need to get snotty about the "provincials". They have far less procedural stuff to deal with, and a lot more highly unpredictable traffic such as gliders, balloons, military and training traffic, some of which talks to them, much of which doesn't, but still have to provide whatever level of service to the increasing level of commercial traffic that will avoid them banging into something else. And as I say, they manage this with a high level of professionalism, courtesy and, on occasion, humour. They are a pleasure to work, which is more than I can say for some. And NO, I don't blame the lessened pleasure entirely on the ATCOs...

Once more - just to make sure you get the message - because I compliment and thank one unit does not lessen the amount we appreciate others. I just felt it was worth taking the trouble to thank them. So why get snotty?

[matc2]

Don't forget that the Guys who do Pennine have usually just stepped off a busy TMA/Enroute Sector at Manchester.
They know what heavy Airways/TMA traffic is all about. In fact they had the busiest day ever on May 20th and it's not even Summer Levels yet.

Pennine is a completely different concept - ATSORA. Workload varies from Manic to Light often depending on Military activity.

Nobody is knocking anybody else. We all have our problems.

[expeditor]

HugMonster,

Dont get me wrong, i think its great you've found time to thank a unit for the sevice you've received. Its just your opening post indicates that some units aren't very helpful,friendly or professional, this seems to be a sweeping generalisation.

The volume & complexity of the traffic on most sectors at LATCC means that unfortunately our R/T has to be straight to the point i.e instructions and acknowledgements , we often dont have time for polite conversations (wish we did).


[This message has been edited by expeditor (edited 24 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by expeditor (edited 24 May 2001).]

[DOC.400]

Hey Hug -do you wish you'd bothered?

[chiglet]

Hey, Doc
For one, I'm glad that he did.
One kiss is worth a thousand b@llockins!

[HugMonster]

Expeditor,

Don't read things into my posts that aren't there.

Yes, I wish I hadn't bothered. In future I'll stick to moaning about the crap service we get, won't bother to thank people who go out of their way to be helpful, and stuff the lot of you.

[wat tyler]

Well done expeditor, that's another one upset, the wedge between pilot and controller driven even further in, unnecessarily.

If someone wants to axpress their gratitude for another unit let them, even if it is a quieter (And in your eyes perhaps, less worthy?) one. Us guys at the smaller units need all the thanks we can get.

We all know LATCC is screaming busy, and I am sure that people appreciate you just as much, even if they don't get the chance to say so.

We'll agree to leave you alone if you agree to do likewise.

Truce?

Hugs. I believe that I am not alone in wanting to thank you for taking the time to post. Don't be discouraged.

[expeditor]

Wat,

Like i said in my previous, it's great that Hug found time to thank a unit for its service,I was just putting things into perspective from my point of view. Im not knocking any other unit, as we all have different situations to deal with (whether at a large or small unit) and i am sure we all try to give as professional service as possible.

[160to4DME]

Come on guys, give poor old expeditor a break.

He can't help it if his world finishes at the LATCC car park.

Isn't this a good case for more of us doing more liaison visits to units in the UK ?

I don't think I've shown one LATCC ATCO round MACC who hasn't gone away with a completely different perspective and appreciation of our ops to the one they arrived with.

The nicest comment I ever heard was from a grizzled ole Lakes/Wirral chief who's comment after a morning on the sectors was "I never realised it was THIS fecking busy!" :)

That of course, was the only thing I heard, as I was far too busy to have a chat/conversation/cup of tea ;) :) ;)


:::::XXX, Pennine, Good Morning, AVOIDING ACTION.....::::: :) :) :)

[250 kts]

My God, what a reaction!
I also don't care who you feel you get the best and friendliest service from,as every ATCO that I know always endeavours to his best at all times.
However I'm still intrigued how the conversation went that decided LATCC were having a "bad day".
Maybe you didn't get the FL you requested or the usual early turn to NEW , so maybe we were just doing the most sensible thing according to the prevailing traffic and you felt you weren't getting the best possible service.
So well done Pennine- Any one fancy a unit swap???????

[Mr A Tis]

Oh, for gods sake grow up.
Who could possibly have thought a simple ".....thanks chaps..." from a pilot, could elicit such infantile drivel ?
Nice thought HugMonster but you're wasting your time.
With colleagues like this.....who needs enemies?
Let call it a day on this one before it gets out of hand.
Goodnight.

[160to4DME]

Mr A Tis

Excellently put sir :)

[HugMonster]

Actually, 250, what I heard was nothing to do with any request we put in, but another aircraft refused permission to transit the TMA, and condemned to a long route round.

I've been a professional pilot long enough to know that we can't always get the clearances we would like, and I'm adult enough about it not to stamp my little foot and whinge. I'm not selfish enough to believe that everyone else is motivated by selfish motives, and my post was not prompted by a desire to knock anyone - merely to pass on a conversation I had with my F/O, and the general opinion we had of one particularly good ATC unit. If you're insecure enough that you then feel you have to knock either my motives in thanking them for all the service I've received in the past and hope to receive in the future, or your colleagues for being on the receiving end of such thanks, then I feel very sorry for you in having such a tiny mind.

Far too much has been imputed to my original post by people who are clearly neither mature enough nor intelligent enough to believe that anyone out there is capable of behaving any other way but as a spoilt brat.

From what I've seen in this thread and many others on this board, too many LATCC people appear to turn their noses up at any other unit, perhaps feeling that they don't know what life is like in "the real world" - as if the pit at West Drayton represented any sort of reality!

So 250 and expeditor (in particular), go get yourselves a life. It sounds to me as if you both could do with a really good shag - at least, one when there's somebody else there.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Agreed. Thanks for the thanks Hugmonster. Out.

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PPRuNe Radar
ATC Forum Moderator
[email protected]

[HugMonster]

Oh dear...

FOH, who rattled your cage?

1) Examples (preferably direct quotes) please?

2) I manage to fit quite a lot into my life, thanks. It includes not only the occasional shag, reading and contributing to PPRuNe, diving, music, reading, writing and quite a lot else - thanks for your concern! :)

3) Since you don't have the faintest idea what my relationship is with the management of the company for whom I work, you will have to take it from me that you don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about. As for the posts in R&N on my employer, I've merely defended my company against idiotic attacks from people who seem to think it's fun to try to destroy other people's jobs. Or perhaps you sympathise with people like that?

If you are considering any further personal attacks on me, I suggest you post your identity so we can all have a good laugh. However, I suspect that you're far too much of a coward to do that, and merely hide behind your anonymity here.

[HugMonster]

PS - to all ATCOs and assistants who have expressed disappointment in (some of) their colleagues' reactions, both here and in a considerable volume of email, and support for my intention in merely giving one unit a pat on the back, my thanks.

That thanks also goes out to the substantial number of people who answered the last thread I started here, expressing concern about WCO sector.

As 10W knows, I put in quite a bit of work trying to help find answers to some of the problems that beset both ATC and pilots in our daily grind of trying to get the paying punters from A to B. I do sympathise with the workload many LATCC sector people suffer from, but I'm not quite arrogant enough to think that I can personally do much about it, other than doing my best when in the air not to add to it unnecessarily!

I also do my best to encourage pilots in my company to visit our local unit, to find out what goes on at the other end. To keep liaising and talking problems over is the best way forward. Entrenched attitudes on either side will not help.

[First Officer Horrendous]

Hugmonster, you used to fly in the right hand seat for me, and a real little pain you were then; forever wittering on about your puddle jumping exploits in the tropics.

You appear to have learned nothing, and somehow squeaked through the Command Assessment........but then, I hear there was/is a pilot shortage. As for the occasional shag - there are clearly more blind girls with low tactile standards about than used to be the case.


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Yours,

HORRY.

[HugMonster]

I say again, FOH - if you want to get personal, identify yourself. Otherwise, all you are doing is presenting yourself as someone who is incapable of separating issues from personality clashes. Not a good advertisement for either professionalism or CRM!

[160to4DME]

For God's sake !!!!

The guy said thankyou to a sector for the service he received.

Can't we just leave it at that and move on ??

Jeez. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

[PPRuNe Radar]

First Officer Horrendous

As both you and HugMonster have your e-mail addresses available, I'd suggest you continue any personal battle using that medium.

I see you've already deleted your initial post to which HugMonster replied. I may consider removing posts on this thread (from any poster) which solely engage in slagging each other off and actually have nothing to do with the topic being discussed. Unfortunately I don't have time at the moment as I'm off 'down route'.

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PPRuNe Radar
ATC Forum Moderator
[email protected]

[HugMonster]

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Ah well - I tried!