Ab initio postings

[Lardyboy]

With units crying out for trainees, and a projected dire shortage in atco numbers over the next 2 years, does it make a great deal of sense to send the next batch of CATC graduates to sit on their arses at LATCC for a year, before they even get a sniff of their permanent unit(and even then not commencing radar training for ages), or am I just being stupid. Answers on a postcard to Head of Area Services please.

[BEXIL160]

Oh dear, your are a little upset aren't you dear boy? You also seem to have a few misconceptions....

"With units crying out for trainees?" errr No, not true. Units are crying out for valid, experienced staff. Most units already have a large training backlog. Adding to the numbers won't help. OJTIs are pushed hard enough now.

"projected ATCO shortage in two years", It's here RIGHT NOW. Only NATS management seem unaware of this. Then again you can't learn much in the ostrich position can you?

"Does it amke sense to send the naxt batch to LATCC?" Well, yes actually. One, where else are you gonnna send them? Two, if they use their time wisely, they might actually learn something useful. Recent U/Ts that I've trained have been WOEFULLY short on aviation knowledge and this has made their training prolonged and sometimes difficult.

This, combined with the "I've done the college course so I can do anything" attitude of many of those like yourself is probably a GOOD reason to MAKE you sit around and contemplate the difference between the CATC games and reality.

LATCC is in the process of OCT (Operational Conversion Training) for NERC. Therefore the training slots available are somewhat limited. This will probably continue to be the case after NERC opens, at least until OJTIs biuld up sufficient confidence in the new system. Use the time wisely and when you finally commence tactical training, it will stand you in good stead. Spend a year or so moaning and you can forget it.

So to sum up, since you make no alternative suggestions, Yes you are just being stupid.

RGDs BEX.

[Stan By]

Bex,

Obviously you assume that the trainees will be able to do some useful type stuff at LATCC, like listen in, if not even do a bit. However, there will be many who, once valid on the wings, will be given the option of doing assistants duties, or doing assistants duties. There should be time set aside for these students to at least watch, and have the situation explained to them. CATC doesn't teach half of what is needed at LATCC, and it is the watch's responsibility to ensure that when the student finally gets an AVC that they know the sectors inside out, and know a bit of technique too. You don't get that on the wings, and if the only radar time you get is when the whole thing has died, then you learn nothing.
In short, a year sat on your arse at LATCC is useful if you read the Part 2, and if those around you help you understand the situations AND tactics.

[BEXIL160]

So there's nothing to be learned on trhe wings Huh?

Try telling that to the vast number of successful, Valid and experienced ex ASCs?

Don't know what an ASC is?

Ask.... the wings

Rgds BEX

[Lardyboy]

Bexil, I was merely stating concern that without any sort of radar experience for well over a year, any skills learned from CATC would be forgotten. Is it such a long time since you were there that you've forgotten just how hard it is to get through the CATC 'games'?
It's also rather patronising of you to believe that nothing worthwhile is acheived at at CATC and rather typical of LATCC types to believe the world revolves around them. ScOACC have being crying out for trainees (yes I said trainees) for the last 6 months.

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Pass the 1261 on the left hand side

[The Fat Controller]

I would hardly say that we are crying out for trainees at Scottish, we have plenty to be going on with thanks.
Also the Oceanic side appear to have more staff than the bean-counters think they should have, hence some will be coming to Airways, so the rumour goes...
As for sitting on your backside for a year or so and not getting radar training, we have recently had a controller validate in Airways after sitting hitting a keyboard in Oceanic for 5 plus years, and this is not a first, so learn all you can from the books whilst waiting for radar time, and go into your training with a positive attitude and you'll end up a winner wherever you are.


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FATCO

[BEXIL160]

Thank You Mr. Fat Controller, my sentiments exactly.

..Lardy, I NEVER said that nothing worthwhile is achieved at CATC, Far from it. CATC does provide a BASIS for future training, that is what they are supposed to do. However "live" training is something else again.

Nope, I DO NOT BELIEVE (and never have)that world revolves around LATCC (TC or AC), Scottish (Airways or Oceanic) or anywhere else I've been valid. It wouldn't matter for example if you'd been sent to Birmingham (no offence EGBB folks) for a YEAR to cool your heels. It's what YOU do in that time that's important. The experience of working as part of an Operational ATC team, even as an ATSA, is invaluable and cannot be taught at CATC.

I guess what it comes down to is *attitude*, as alluded to by My colleague above. Two things. One, There is no such thing as a wasted experience. Two, (my favourite) Experience is something you have, immediately AFTER the first time you needed it.

Enjoy your training
rgds
BEX

[Odi]

Off topic a bit, but what is meant by "working in the wings" - I only ask because I hear it refered to by area ATCOs on PPRUNE, or by guys off my ex-course and I haven't a clue what you're all talking about!

[bill]

odi, it's working the ATSA position on a sector, which in AC are to the left and/or right of the control positions, hence "the wings".

[EVP]

LardyBoy

I Don't think you will spend a year doing nothing at LATCC. If 'O' date is Jan 27 and you come to LATCC this summer you will only be here for about 7 months tops.

Use the time to learn as much as you can - I only had 3 months at LATCC before my AVC and I did not feel prepared. There is sooooo much to learn. And believe me - If you don't make an effort to learn it, the OJTI's will have no respect for you! (I think BEXIL160 will agree with this)

You will also probably find you have a load of holidays to take, have an FDP (computer) course to complete, opportunity to visit TC, Mil, Airfields and possibly a foreign centre. Chuck in a couple of fam flights and before you know it your sitting down to live training and your wondering;
"Whats the base of CAS here? Is this planned level correct? How many miles do I need for a radar handover to the French? - Crap, I wish I had done more bookwork!"

Enjoy

EVP