Flying in the Persian/Arabian Gulf

[Airtoday]

If you have been following this thread from its start you would know that it has been about giving interesting work to helicopter pilots who want or need it.

I am a helicopter pilot who has had interesting work. I am also one who has needed it. I know what it is like to dream of that marvellous job. Unfortunately now, here anyway, they stipulate minimum hours on type, even for co-pilots.

This minima comes from the major world oil companies. Mostly, American. The major helicopter companies, becoming exclusively, CHC, have the resources to train and build hours for their pilots. CHC now dictate.

Fortunately for me there are enough experienced pilots in the world who do not want to work for this Canadian Union of National Travel (C.U.N.T.) and I can still find decent people looking for employment outside of the C.U.N.T.

We are getting fewer though.

For those of us outside

Don't take on the Smell of those.....

Airytoad

[rotaryman]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :ooh: :oh:

[Phone Wind]

You need to be a bit careful about believing some of the stuff you read here. I think if anyone in ADA is worried about approaching 60 and thinks nice Airytoad will give them a job so they don't feel cast off, they're dreaming:hmm:

Some parts of the Gulf can be okay to work, but the money is not that good and as most of the flying is just to offshore it requires no more sense of adventure than flying in the GOM, the Bay of Bengal or the Bight of Benin. I guess it just might be helpful if you're suffering from a bit of hardening of the liver and want to be forced to cut back the intake of booze, but in Dubai even that is doubtful ;)

[jinglejim]

Im with you PW flying with AGS is as exciting and adventurous as watching paint dry..
Airytoad is looking thru his rose coloured glasses (or the bottom of his beer glass)
Me think Airytoad was refering to driving home from Biggles with one eye closed.

[SASless]

Nice safe Nigeria? Define nice and safe?

Dubai for 55,000 USD....including benefits was it....plus a sense of adventure?

Now you want adventure....sling Boughs in a Jetranger off the side of a very nice mountain in the blowing snow...or fight forest fires with a 100' longline and bucket....or dart Elk in the mountains...chase hydroplane racing boats with a camera crew...sling cedar blocks on a longline...fly a rescue or recover bodies from crevasses with a fixed line....or haul porta-loo's on a longline to the side of a snowcapped mountain....or hover in the top of an active volcano, spray and fertilize moutain side clearcuts in the Pacific Northwest....

But flogging offshore in a 212 from a sandbox....nah, no sense of adventure needed there....sorry.:ok:

And do it for more money in yer pocket too....but if you want to have a retirement twilight posting in a decent place to live for a year or two.....now maybe Dubai might be the ticket.

[Tokunbo]

Airytoad is probably in a safer place now than he was 10 years ago, which is maybe why nowadays he views the world through rose colored spectacles rather than rose colored eyes.

He should be rather careful of slagging off the Canadian Union of National Travel (not a particularly amusing pun anyway) who offer considerably more opportunities to their pilots than his own outfit, often with better benefits, better money, more variety and more opportunities for genuine adventure. If Aerogulf is operating in Yemen, then maybe there's some adventure (but then forget all the guff about personal safety).

[Airtoday]

Hi Tokumbo.

Yes, for sure, Nigeria was a safer place than others I have been.
Much, much, more safe than some. I liked, very much, the people I worked with there.
There is no doubt, though, that one of the best places I have had to work is here in Dubai.

Airytoad

[RDRickster]

Ya, a bastion of safety for the Westerner (NOT)...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/08/08/terror.wrap/index.html

[Tokunbo]

R D Rickster

Your post only goes tp show how safe Dubai is - an Al Qaeda suspect was actually arrested there. Or do you want to imply that any country in which an Al Qaeda suspect is arrested is not safe - like the USA maybe? :confused:

[Thomas coupling]

I think you meant well airtoad, but the general concensus of opinion seems to be:
Great job for hour building for a single guy for about a couple of years - then move out and move on, perhaps?

Afetr all - £29000.....do people really earn that little flying commercially????? Then rub their noses in it by asking them to live in one of the most expensive areas, too?

I think this is a gem of a job for that young up and coming wannabee looking for some early adventures abroad and some fact finding missions...single :ok:

[anjouan]

Let's see now. Police pilot in UK averaging maybe £42,000 a year gross. Knock off 30% for tax and National Insurance contributions. Leaves about £28,000 for working in horrible weather in one of the more expensive countries in Europe.

Can people really earn that little for flying commercially?

[Thomas coupling]

Touche anjouan!

I must admit that I was referring to directly employed pilots who also had pensions/loss of licence/health care/overtime/considerable annual leave/and a client that wouldn't go bust.....as the basis for my argument.

Not forgetting that the UK has scenery / a diverse climate (30 degrees today!) / human rights:ooh:

And is the healthiest community in the EU, I believe :E

[SASless]

TC....are we being a bit prejudiced here....North Yorkshire is nice...The West Country is attractive...loved Scotland....the beer is better than American brands...but then the Germans have the Alps, real beer, there is Italy...Italian wine and the female of the species....for winter and indoor sports Scandinavia leads the list.....all certainly better than living in Dubai. Dubai must be compared to Saudi....Yemen...Abu Dhabi...Bahrain....Iran....Iraq....and Kuwait....and probably is the best of all those places but certainly no garden spot by western standards.

[go vertical]

Is it possible to work with the FAA ATPL(H) in the Emirates or is there a License Conversion necessary?

Thanks!!!

[Rotorbike]

In the Emirates so that you can work immediately a two month validation of your foreign ATPL(H) is given. During this time you would need to do the air law exam and a medical and then they will issue you a licence.

[Rotaree_taree..]

The word is that the senior instructional staff at Horizon have suffered a bit of a clearout recently - anyone have any good rumours to pass on about this? I believe some people may have lost jobs before they'd even arrived to take up their posts :(

[Banzai-blades]

Confirmed that CI shown the door.

New man cd all new appointments.

[SiClick]

Not quite so
General Manager shown the door, Deputy GM has effectively taken over, many not confident about the new management and some pilots have resigned.
Horizon however will go on, to much has been invested in the project.

[Rotaree_taree..]

Si,

A little bird (OK, a quick look through your previous posts) indicates that you might be one of those seeking new employment elsewhere. Did you find out what you needed from Bond? Perhaps you could share your knowledge of what happened at Horizon, might help others thinking of heading that way to work.

[Phoenix Rising]

Sounds like things are always unsettled there. Didnt PHS from OZ get screwed by Horizon as well.

:E

[206av8]

The problem is the DGM, a local who cannot be trusted. He screwed the GM because he wanted to be the boss. He is rumoured to be cancelling leave, changing the agreed interpretation of contracts, ie leave allowance etc. Lots of the experienced guys are looking for alternative employment.
The DGM was also involved in the moving of goalposts with PHS.

[SiClick]

Hi Rotaree
Yes I am indeed one of those considering my options, and Bond were amongst a few I approached, but as I said earlier whilst Horizon is not the worlds happiest place, its not going away, and it has a need for experienced pilots. There is bound to be some scaremongering about the management changes, and there will be some turnover amongst the pilots but at the end of the day Horizon will be here, and so will at least 20 instructors.

[Cheesaburger]

A little bird tells me that the finace department there is very slow in paying, and the admin are worse than useless. It doesn't seem a very happy work place over there, I am surprised that anyone is staying.

[206av8]

I heard there was an incident involving senior management booking a room in a hotel under an employee's name to entertain his ladies of the night, it all went wrong apparently when the next morning the ladies cleared out the room. Rumour has it that it all got kept quiet as the management involved was a local. Anyone over there know any more?

[Cheesaburger]

Well Cyclick
you seem to be, or have been over there, is there any truth in what 206av8 ia saying?
Come on, we'd all love to know.

[kerosene dreams]

Just wondering if anyone on here works on knows some one at ADA.
Curious as to their hiring mins. Captains mins are listed on their website but no co-pilots. Heard it fluctuates depending their need. Thanks in advance!:ok:

[Rotorbike]

Abu Dhabi Aviation have never had a non local co-pilot.

So unless you have a passport from the United Arab Emirates hidden you are unfortunately out of luck.

Regards
Rotorbike

[Staticdroop]

Same question but for Gulf Helicopters? anybody know the requirements?
Ta in advance.

[212man]

If you type www.gulfhelicopters.com into your address bar and then follow the link 'join us' you get the following info:

Pilot

Offshore Experience.
Current ICAO ATPL(H) with IR.
Valid Class 1 Medical.
Current Instrument Rating.
2500 hours Helicopter (1500 PIC).
Min 100 hrs B412/212.

[Staticdroop]

Sorry for bringing this up for what is the umpteenth time.
I am however looking for up to date information on Gulf helicopters, am looking to spread my wings and work in the sun for a while and get some offshore experience.
Anybody who works for or has worked for the company i'd appreciate any feed back on the usual questions particularly on the safety aspect within the country, have heard it is a very stable progressive society.


Ta in advance for all the help.

[SiClick]

Qatar, great place to live, very safe expanding at an unbelievable rate, very good for families, not bad for single folk.
Gulf Heli's good company, working the guy's quite hard at the moment as they are a bit short (The exchange rate with the Dollar being so low is hurting the package and as a result they are having fun recruiting)
Hope that helps
Si:O

[Staticdroop]

SiClicK,
Thanks for that, had wondered about all these UK folk in the Middle East being paid greenbacks and then turning them into not a lot of Sterling at the current rates. Any idea if they allow rotations or are you expected to move out lock stock and barrel?

Ta again

[SiClick]

They have 6 on and 6 off Rotations, 8 on and 4 off, and the married accompanied. The package is around 300 US a day that you work, the off is unpaid.

[Staticdroop]

SiClick,
Thanks again i take it you mean 6 weeks paid at $300 per day or are you only paid for the days you actualy turn up to work, i.e. 5 days per week at $300 per day?

Ta

[gn4p7]

6 weeks on = 42 days pay
6 weeks off = 42 days no pay

The situation isn’t as rosy as SiClick would have you believe. Engineers and pilots are leaving in droves, due to greedy and inept management.

Qatar is a safe but very very dull place, not counting the driving, which is all a little too exciting at times.

Administration is run by the “Indian mafia” who spend their days devising ways to screw every last Riyal out of you.

The deterioration in the pay and conditions in the last few years has been spectacular. I think SiClick is in the position of trying to find new employees, because his upbeat assessment does not bear much resemblance to the morale of the people I know still there.

good luck

[Staticdroop]

gn4p7,
thanks for the info, i hear all the time how all the Middle East operators are paying poor wages and not being very good places to work due to poor administration. However to be honest the wages look poor but there are always conflicting stories of conditions and people leaving in droves but these places still seem to tick along.

thanks for the info:ok:

[Recuperator]

Staticdroop,

I don't want to end up telling you "I told you so".

Gn4p7 assessment is spot on except for SiClick's salaries that are actually slightly lower than stated.

The only thing bright about what is happening in Gulf at the moment is the sun that shines outside everyday.

[Oracle]

SITREP:
N1 CREEPING LOWER AND LOWER (along with pilot and engineer levels) AND FAST APPROACHING THE POINT AT WHICH SELF-SUSTAIN WILL NO LONGER BE FEASIBLE. MUCH OVERPITCHING IN MANAGEMENT WITH PROMISES OF MORE EXPENDITURE - BUT THIS HAS BEEN THE STANDARD CHRISTMAS FABLE FOR MANY YEARS AT GHC I AM TOLD.
I AM TOLD THAT THE REMAINING DIEHARDS ARE A REALLY GOOD BUNCH, BUT ARE V. HACKED OFF AND ARE BUT A PHONE CALL FROM CHC AWAY FROM DEPARTURE TO NICER EMPLOYMENT CONDITIONS WITH LOSS OF LICENSE, PENSION, MEDICAL (ON & OFF TIME) AND A FORTNIGHTLY PAY PACKET WHICH WILL EXCEED THAT AT GULF HELIS BY OVER 30%, (CURRENCY ADJUSTED).

MEANWHILE, IF YOU HAVE A PULSE AND AN ATPL/CPL (H) WITH ANY OFFSHORE/212/412 TIME (OR NOT) THERE IS SEEMINGLY NO BETTER TIME TO GET A FREE TYPE RATING AND FAST HOURS. EVERYONE IS APPARENTLY MAXING OUT ON THEIR WEEKLY & MONTHLY HOURS AS PILOT LEVELS ARE REPORTEDLY BELOW 30% OF WHAT THEY WERE THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO.
THEIR PILOT TURNOVER RATE THIS YEAR IS SUPPOSEDLY IN EXCESS OF 60%.

IT WOULD SEEM THAT INEPTITUDE AND FINANCIAL LETHARGY FROM THE INDIAN BEAN-COUNTERS AND LOCAL MANAGEMENT ALIKE ARE LEADING GH TOWARDS VORTEX RING AND A GRINDING HALT VERY SOON...............

[Sandbox]

Oracle has summed it up fairly accurately.

Gulf Helis is in a sad state of dis-repair at the moment. I have worked for them for more than 5 years and unfortunately have decided to resign at the end of this tour. The pay & exchange rate is one thing, but company direction is another.

Since the new Manager took over only 18mths ago, GHC has been on a downward trend. Lower management has been struggling to improve the situation but making no progress. All experienced pilots are leaving and most of the licenced engineers are on their way out. Where this stops nobody knows. Even the CP has resigned because he has given up trying to fight for improvement.

We used to have a good company full of motivated and experienced people. Now we have a company that that is only interested in one thing - the bottom line. Caution for all.

The direction for GHC is not good - sad to be leaving but even more disapointing to stay.

[pjohnson]

I too have been with Gulf for a long time and it makes me sad to see how the company has gone downhill so quickly in the last couple of years.

Previously I've mentioned on this forum that "everybody's got to eat" and if you're in that situation then make up your own mind. Right now, for your own health (due to all the engineers leaving), I'd suggest you stay away from the place under all circumstances.

Shell, Total and Conaco are so concerned with the company's problems (read exodus of experienced people), they are going around the GM to the Chairman of the Board (who just happens to be the President of Opec at the moment). Shell is threatening to bring in and operate their own a/c. Conaco is so worried they have a full time auditor at Gulf everday to monitor the engineering on their a/c and to check the experienced levels of pilots assigned to their a/c. This on site presence has given them greater insite into how the place is falling apart with the result that the head Conaco auditor arrives in town today. Should be interesting!

I hope this helps.

Cheers and have a Merry Xmas.

[gn4p7]

Regretfully the situation will not change until there are not enough pilots to fly the mission, or the engineers do not get the aircraft back on the line. Losing money is the only thing that the management will take notice of. The auditors can say what they like, but unless they cancel the contract, nothing will happen. This is not likely as they cannot start their own operation due to the Emir owning gulf helicopters, and he's not going to want competition to this cash cow.
I'd also like to say the decline started prior to the local management taking over. He was a little more subtle, but started the decline nonetheless. It’s also interesting that he has managed to retain a consulting role, at great expense I expect.

[Sandbox]

There is alot of talk about pilot/LAE salaries and I would like to bring it all under the one heading if all agree. Possibly already been done so plse excuse my ignorance & just direct me to the right post if required.

I'll kick it off:

Gulf Helicopters (Qatar) - Pilots

Live on site Captain: Approx $65-68,000
Live on site Co-pilot: No such thing

Touring Captain: 6:6 or 2:1
Paid daily rate for days on-site
Capt: $284
Check capt: $295
TRE: $311

Touring Co-Pilot
$155

Benefits: None to speak of. No end service gratuity. Gov't medical when at work. Not much insurance.

Next year - Who knows ? Rumour of around 20% increase with strings attached

[Wavewatcher]

The difference between that and a decent salary is what either the owners or the customers stick in their pocket, right? :yuk:

[SiClick]

Horizon Flight Academy, Al Ain, UAE
Instructor $68 000 plus up to $5000 additional allowances, Housing, school fee's etc

[gn4p7]

Sorry to pour cold water on your 20% pay rise sandbox, but this is the standard end of year rumour. Last years rumour was about the same, the result being a “technical allowance” of 10% to pilots & 5% to engineers. This was paid on the basic rate less gratuity so the actual pay rise was about 2% less than that. The only other pay rise in my time (almost 4 years) was a 3.5% increase if you’d been there 2 years. Once again this was an allowance on the basic rate less gratuity. Oh, and no bonus this year (one months basic salary) which was supposedly guaranteed last year. All this while the USD decreased in value by around 40%.

[noooby]

gn4p7, that is exactly why myself. and alot of others have quit. Sick of b******t and broken promises from that GM. But, as has already been posted, until they lose customers/contracts, or have an accident, nothing will change. Wouldn't like to bet on which one happens first though.
Edit to include pay for Licenced Engineers.
Basic Pay= US$184.00
Doha Allowance=US$42.00
Technical Allowance=US$9.00
Giving the grand total of US$235.00 per day worked. This pay is valid for all LAE's upto but not including Shift Supervisors, and is only valid for expat LAE's, as locals are paid more.

noooby

[SASless]

Uh oh! It is back to truck driving for me! Better wages...better benefits...achievable bonus plan....same b------t but at least you are in yer own home country.

[noooby]

Eggzachary!! SASless, you have more common sense and foresight than alot of the managers working over in that part of the world. Give yourself a payrise :)

noooby

[Oracle]

HOT PRESS (or COLD PRESS - depending how you look at it!)

Up to 22% Pay rise for pilots in the works this week - BUT this is still not a fixed increase on basic - rather a 'currency/exchange rate correctional allowance' which will be recalculated every month and adjusted according to the value of the US$. Daft? Of course! Workable? Never in a month of Sundays! Suspicions? That the bleeding bean-counters will use any future excuse (coup in Rajisthan etc etc) to lose the 'adjustment' %age as soon as possoble once pilot manning levels increase significantly (probably by 2007!).
This is supposed to have brought GHC pilots up to par with ADA - but as we all know, ADA can't get pilots at their current [better] salary, so how will GHC fare with a lesser daily rate??? Not well, it is believed. Meanwhile the engineers are still stuck in economic obscurity without hope yet in sight. Rather daft, n'est-ce pas?

After all the promising talk and encouraging mutterings of $100 extra per day, the Keralite bean-counters and fiddlers-in-chief (the dark side of the Force) seem to be winning - is there a Luke Skywalker anywhere out there with a Light Sabre ready to get rid of The Evil Emperor and his muddling Minnions?
Hope so - otherwise Gulf helis will still proceed southwards at a steady, self-destructive pace. Whether the Chairman (Blessings Upon Him) is able to turn this around (without the use of an assault rifle in the company offices) remains to be seen!
A Merry Christlemouse to all our happy readers!

[Green one]

This is very typical in my experience; all the increases have been allowances therefore the basic rate never goes up. They are then free to remove the allowances at their leisure. Notice also they said up to 22%, this is all part of the carrot and the stick game that has been played many times before to disappointing outcomes around feb the next year. The fact that the engineers are getting sweet FA is not surprising. It was the stated aim of the GM to get rid of the “Bristow’s style of Engineer” and replace him with engineers from countries that will be happy to work for the money offered. I only hope the remaining engineers vote with their feet, as have many before them. Sadly only an Accident will change this policy, by then it will be too late.:mad: Glad i'm out of there

[Oracle]

Forgot to mention that along with no news of pay rises for the remaining engineers, there is nothing at all on the horizon right now for the co-pilots with this mob - nice being a second-class person, huh?

[Yarba]

The only thing GHC has to offer which is better than ADA is the accommodation.

Both companies are garbage to work for and are completely over-run with Keralite bean counters who do their best to screw anybody not from their province. The way things are going it's not just the bean counters who'll be from Kerala. Engineering is already falling apart and I'm one of those who left because I no longer feel safe flying in helicopters where the maintenance is being done by tired, fed-up engineers. They try their very best, but there's no incentive, except their professional pride, for them to want to put in long hours for next to nothing.

The working conditions may not be as good, but Bristow are employing 212 and 412 pilots and engineers at better pay in Nigeria right now. Maybe some of the people should think about moving to another hot country a bit further west :E

[SASless]

Yarba....take a couple of deep breathes....try to relax....chill out buddy!

Before you hold Bristow/Nigeria up as being better....you might want to think about how it is and not how it was.

Before you make that leap of faith....and dive in...better dangle yer toe in the water a while and check for depth and temperature.

[Yarba]

SASless,

I did take a few deep breaths. I think you're the one who hasn't worked in either of these locations for while. I used to work in the Gulf after working for old Bristow. I agree new Bristow isn't nearly as nice but working in Eket the housing is acceptable (better than ADA for sure :yuk: ), the pay is much better and the helicopters are well looked after.

Maybe you should come and dangle yer toe in the water ;)

[SASless]

May have to....need a 6 year gig to finish up.....then go fishing full time. Cannot go to Eket....too old....they do not like geriatrics down there.

[Rotor Driver]

I read on one of the previous posts that the CP has resigned. Did Steve really resign?

[pjohnson]

Yep, Steve has resigned. His last day is 28 Feb. And in the last couple of weeks 3 other Captains have resigned, along with two others who already have already accepted jobs elsewhere but haven't resigned yet.

Things are now so desparate in the engineering dept in Doha they have pulledback an engineer from their Kish Island operation to try to hold the place together. And he's still getting paid his Kish Island wage. Wonder how the Doha engineers will feel about that? !!

And, surprise surprise, the company has received a 6 month extension on introducing a JAA Ops based Flight and Duty Time scheme. Can't crew the operation under their old FTL, let alone a JAA Ops based scheme!

For a country with so much money, it's a bloody shame to see what was a good company turn into this!

[JimL]

Sorry PJ,

No such thing as a JAR-OPS based FTL scheme!

[rotorboy]

Hmm, if everyone is bailing off the ship, they still dont seem to be recuriting. I know a young guy with a several thousdand hours (command), mostly utility some off shore, multi time, has an IR or atp and when he enquired they said they were not hiring co-pilots....

makes you go hmmmm


RB

[gn4p7]

I think you’ll find they have some locals training to be copilot’s somewhere overseas. They seem to be taking longer than expected to complete their training. This is due to Visa troubles and crashing one of the machines. I don’t really think their arrival will do anything to help matters at the sinking ship that is Gulf Helicopters.

[NoMoGulf]

Now that they have a new CP expect the firings to begin. Between the "Safety" boss and the "CP" there could not be more micro-managing. You now have 2 people who think that the only way to make themselves look good is by finding as many faults in others that they can. The only saving grace is the lack of applicants willing to work for a company as poorly run as this one. I am sure that I will be gone either as soon as JH figures out who made this post, or I find just about any other position.

[Yarba]

'Safety' boss - I like your humor :ok: He's the most self-serving individual I ever met. As you say, with him it's nothing to do with safety - just a whole heap of BS and trying to make every one else look bad :yuk: . He must be responsible for more pilots leaving ADA than any other single factor.
I don't think the company is poorly managed - it's not that efficient :}
Good luck with finding something else - if I were you I'd try and get away from the Gulf region because the pay and conditions there are some of the worst in the world.

[SiClick]

Dubai is a great, but expensive place. Most the people I know in Dubai earn above the market average for whatever they do, because they live in Dubai.
Not so, I hear, with Aerogulf. A well thought of company, but trying to run a proffessional operation on a shoestring. Add the Dollars recent 30% devaluation, and it doesn't look like a great long term prospect!?

[Heliport]

Aerogulf does seem to be operating on a lot of hype and a very tight shoestring.
Always a risky combination.
Probably wise to exercise caution

[Sandy Toad]

Heliport
Where did that ball come from? Think as Moderator your Posts carry substantial weight so hope your facts right. And no I don't work for AGS.

[jinglejim]

Spot on heliport

[SASless]

If Heliport is wrong....which I very sincerely doubt.....then Aerogulf could quite simply come forth with the facts and refute the statement.

The opinion stands alone as a truism in my book.

You tell'em Heliport.

They don't like their laundry being aired....then clean up their act.

[Sandy Toad]

My point is that after nearly 3 pages of Gulf Helis and ADA bashing without mention of Aerogulf, SyClick posts his opinion that AGS doesn't look like a long term proposition because they are running on a shoestring and the dollars devaulation of 30%. Heliport then posts that this is a risky combination and to exercise caution. Not something he has done with Gulf or ADA. I wondered why.
Are we talking maintenance standards? Or economic viability? Or just the low salaries offered?
As a customer I haven't had any concerns on first to date. The last must be apparent before signing to any prospective employee. As for economic viability, most of their expenses are presumably in Dollars, operating Bell equipment, spares etc, or Dollar linked currencies, eg local expenses, housing etc.
One should also not forget business is not always quite what it seems in the Middle East. Individuals or family companies can be asked to run projects which do not have to make profits, the pay back being in some future venture/favour. When Aerogulf was formed it had the highest backing, I would have thought it unlikely to be allowed to crumble unless another Dubai based company could step in. Do you really see ADA or Gulf being allowed to operate the Dubai contract?
Anyway bash away as I have no personal interest in it other than curiosity, as was involved in their birth for a year, nearly 30 years ago.
Bows out, creakily on Zimmer frame.

[Heliport]

Impressions of aerogulf are just that, impressions.

Lots of hype and a tight shoestring being a risky combination is, as SASless says, a truism.

[Rotorbike]

Aerogulf will not go bust for as long as there remains oil offshore Dubai.

It does include the high cost of housing as part of the overall package when others don't. As a result wages are lower than other companies based in the area. It is also a dollar paid position so the recent depreciation of the currency has hurt the employees.

But I don't remember anyone complaining when they were paid in dollars and living in Europe when the Euro was initially launched.

A different package, with Dubai as a place to live for you and your family, if that is what you would like. Not for the person that would like rotation work.

Top level engineering and a nice bunch of lads to work with, just depends what you want from a job.

[SASless]

The question that comes to mind.....there is a shortage or lack of local pilots to man the operation thus requiring the use of expatriate pilots.

Why is housing considered a part of the wage packet? I see such costs as being part of an operating expense. The reason "touring" companies do so is usually to cut down on housing costs and capital expenditure and thus save money by that practice.

So what am I missing here.....

Also heard via the sandbox grapevine.....that Gulf Heli's holds back several hundred dollars from your initial pay check and does not put the money into an interest bearing escrow account. The report said that the money is usually paid several months after termination of the employee without benefit of interest or any kind of appreciation on the account. I assume that is in anticipation of someone doing a Keller and running up large telephone bills to the spouse half way around the world....and leaving the company to pay the bills.

Seem like a funny way of doing business with people you entrust an aircraft and lots of people with.....

[Gimble Stop]

The only reason it is possible to trust a pilot with and aircraft and passengers is the fact that his sorry ass is strapped into the aircraft along with the passengers.
Pilots are notorious for pissing off without paying their bills. (Generally Kiwi).

Before you all get up in arms, I have proof in the form of a huge phone bill.

If I was in charge of GHC I would not pay the Pilots at all. There is always someone out there that will fly for nothing. I have proof of this also.

But keep on telling yourself that you are indispensable. Somebody will believe you. Or you could just leave and then the whole Middle East oil industry would collapse I am sure.

[Yarba]

I don't work for Aerogulf either. Their housing isn't that great (OK it's better than ADA's, but so is a Bedouin's tent :E ). However, there's no getting away from the fact that they pay less than any other helicopter company in the Gulf. Oil is at an all time high and the companies in the Gulf are paying, relatively, an all time low, and Aerogulf is the lowest of the low :uhoh:
ADA pays for their guys on married accompanied to live in decent housing, but they treat their staff like poo. I wouldn't work for any of them again until they learn to treat their expat staff like human beings, provide decent housing and pay a proper salary

[SASless]

Now Gimble Stop.....

You miss the point....if your pilots were not moving on...thus happy in their situation...would there be any unpaid bills left owing to begin with.

[Gimble Stop]

Pilots move on. That’s a fact of life.
We except the pay and conditions offered. When we are no longer satisfied we move on.
How does that justify leaving with unpaid bills?
How does it reflect badly on a company like GHC for withholding funds to protect themselves from a known and common problem? We Pilots made the bed. Now those who choose to follow must lay in it.
If you don’t like your pay and conditions, pay your bills and leave. Or are you hanging on because there might be a pay rise in the wind and you might miss out? You never know it might be just around the corner.
How about instead of winging and bitching, you spend some time thinking of ways you can improve your working environment for yourself and your colleges. You obviously have plenty of time on your hands.
No one is holding a gun to your head! You are being detained by your own greed!

[SASless]

Gimble,

Why is it you are so emotional about this topic? One would think you made the decision to withhold those funds yourself.....it would appear. Rather than the old vote with yer feet attitude....I hold with the work for a better tomorrow concept. Yes there will be turnover in pilots at any company. The pilots that die, retire, become disabled, and those that leave for any other reason.....all contribute to a turnover rate. Those leavings are generally well planned for, easy to calculate in advance and are very few in number if one excludes the "leave for other reasons" catagory. I would submit the unpaid bills are a symptom of a deeper problem within the company than being mere misconduct by the pilots that stiff the company.

Loyalty is a two way street....if one is happy in his employ then there is no need to depart in an untimely fashion. Could it be the guys just wake up one day and decide "enough of this" and pack their bongo's? I dare say....anyone that is as adamant about the old "love it or leave" attitude as you are....just might be part of the problem and not part of the cure.

Integrity is not conditional....either you have it or you do not....to leave with bills unpaid is not an honorable thing. Running a crappy helicopter company isn't an honorable thing either.

Being a free market economy out there....I reckon then the company that gets stiffed for unpaid bills gets what they paid for.

Find a way to identify, recruit, and retain quality staff and you will not have that problem....and thus have no need for such a practice as GHC apparantly does. Is there a message in all that for you? :{

[flyer43]

Gimblestop

Interesting comment regarding pilots being indispensible and the likelihood of finding pilots who will do the job for free.
Maybe you ought to think about the customers who entrust their lives to the pilots (and engineers) working for any operator. Sure, you could find any idiot willing to fly your helicopters for very little reward, but I wouldn't want to be in one with them.

You also mentioned "voting with your feet". This is something that customers are doing more of when they become unhappy with the quality and, more importantly, the safety of the service being offered to them.

While I don't condone anybody walking out on a job and leaving unpaid bills behind, if the company concerned rewards its workers suitably for their capability and dedication it would prevent the rot which is setting in at the moment.

[Vertiflight]

Heliport,

What did you mean by "Lots of hype" at Aerogulf? You mentioned it a couple of times in your posts.

[chevy 76]

Hoi guys,
found in Flight international,posted January 4th

Doha, Qatar
Gulf Helicopters Company (GHC) operate a fleet of modern Bell 412/212 helicopters primarily in support of the Offshore Oil and Gas industry in the Arabian Gulf and has immediate requirements for the following positions with the qualifications listed below:
Offshore experience
Current ICAO ATPL(H) licence with Instrument Rating
Valid Class 1 Medical
Minimum of 2500 hours on helicopters
1500 hours as Pilot in Command
1000 hours multi engine
500 hours as Pilot in Command multi engine
Prefer Bell 412/212 Type Rated with minimum 100 hours on type
Recently Enhanced Tax Free remuneration package includes:
Positions available on Unaccompanied Status (four weeks on/four weeks off or 6:6 or 8:4 cycles) ......

any idea about the recently enhanced tax free salary??
payment remains only for the days on tour??

[rba194]

Hi

Does anyone know of any organisations which will allow me to fly in Dubai or the United Arab Emirates on a JAA PPL(H)? I don't necessarily want to fly solo or with passengers, just a couple of hours here and there with an instructor or CPL(H) would be great.

I'm going out there for a few weeks in February and would love to do some flying. Any info much appreciated.

Thanks
rba194

[jellycopter]

I was out there a couple of years ago and it wasn't possible then. However, the CFI at Um Al Quwain Flying Club (1.5 hrs drive up the coast from Dubai), a chap called Mohammed somethingorother was very helpful when I paid them a visit. I recommend you give him a call. The No is in the ubiquitous 'Dubai Explorer' book available all over Dubai.

You might find things have changed for the better by now (but I doubt it!).

J

[Rotorheadmark]

I have just left Dubai after a number of years there. Um Al Quwain had a R44 the last time I heard. I wanted to fly also as I was doing my PPL but it was still not allowed, in Dubai that is.
Things do happen and change quick there so its worth looking into.

:ok:

[rjsquirrel]

Qatar's Gulf Helicopters Selects S-92 for VVIP Mission
Tuesday January 25, 2:44 pm ET


STRATFORD, Conn., Jan. 25 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Gulf Helicopters of Doha, Qatar has signed a contract to purchase an S-92 aircraft to serve VVIP missions. Delivery is scheduled for 2006.
"We are excited to add Gulf Helicopters to the growing list of S-92 customers across the world," said Joseph Gigantelli, Regional Vice President for Sikorsky.

Previously, Turkey and Turkmenistan selected the S-92 for head-of-state missions. Turkey has contracted for one and Turkmenistan for two S-92s.

In November 2004 Canada signed a contract to purchase 28 H-92s, the military variant of the S-92, for its Maritime Helicopter Program. The H-92 is also under consideration as the next helicopter for the President of the United States.

Sikorsky has 89 orders to date, including options, for the S-92 and H-92.

The S-92 was the first helicopter in the world certified by the FAA to FAR Part 29 Transport Rotorcraft, Amendment 47, the latest US safety regulations, as well as the equivalent European Aviation Safety Agency/Joint Aviation Authorities (EASA/JAA) standards.

Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation, based in Stratford, Conn., is a world leader in helicopter design, manufacturing and service. Sikorsky is a subsidiary of United Technologies Corporation (NYSE: UTX - News), of Hartford, Conn., which provides a broad range of high-technology products and support services to the aerospace and building systems industries.


:ok:

[SASless]

Ah now that did it....it will have to be the 101 now....can't be riding around in just any old helicopter!

If one is to profile....by golly...profile!

Reckon Bell has an old Agusta Whale they will try to sneak into the contest at the last minute! Agusta had one hiddent away in the hangar at Gallarate not so long ago.

[Lu Zuckerman]

To: SASless

I believe that the whale you refer to is the Agusta 101. It was built in order to get Vertol to sign a contract for Agusta to build and market the CH-47. Agusta said that if Vertol did not give them a license they would put the 101 into production thus stifling Vertols' ability to market the CH-47 in Europe and Africa and the Middle East.

The rotorhead was a French design similar to that used on the Allouette. I don't know how much French influence was in the design but it looks a lot like a Super Frelon.


:E :E

[SASless]

Lu,

I think you could put them side by side and the difference would no matter. When I was there the poor old thing was covered in dust and looked awfully neglected. Not a bad looking helicopter.

[Lu Zuckerman]

To: SASless

When I was there it was outside exposed to all of the elements. At least they had the good sense to bring it inside and try to preserve a one-off helicopter for posterity.

:E :E

[noooby]

Just wondering if anyone is left at Doha and able to shed some light as to what is happening at the moment. Have heard that 12 Licenced Engineers have left in the last few months, can't be too many of them left on the floor. Have also heard that maintenance is falling behind (surprise surprise), and that pilot training has stopped. Surely not. Oh yeah, and what about the promised payrise?? Has it surfaced yet, or is that going to be held over till a quiet period :mad:
Would be good to hear from anybody still left or recently left.
Iceberg dead ahead!!

noooby

[CareBear]

Things are no better at Horizon - if anything they are worse now than a few months ago.

Rumours re the hotel booking are true.

Horizon currently has 70 students enrolled, 37 of which are just about to finish a cpl course after nearly two years - 10 aircraft of which usually only 6 are serviceable, 8 unhappy instructors and a *********** off CFI who is looking elsewhere.

Management seem to refuse to listen to common sense, are late paying both company bills and personal allowances, try to add their own interpretation to contracts as they see fit.

For the moment, my best advise would be to avoid it like the plague - it's not a happy place!!!

[Cheesaburger]

Is there any truth in the rumour that The Deputy GM, after promising it wouldn't be a problem is now refusing to give people that leave an letter that will allow them to work for a different company in the UAE?
It sounds to me like that guy is a proper T*AT!

[alouette]

It's a bugger...seemed like a good outfit down there in the desert...:}

[SiClick]

Its a great shame the board wont grasp the nettle and remove the problem. I have no regrets for leaving other than I have left behind a good bunch of Instructors, and students who are getting shafted by a man for whom I have no respect.
Good luck to those that stay.

[alouette]

I assume the board is run by very apt beaners of the native sort; correct me if I am wrong. Is the chief flight instructor still there? Or did he get replaced as well...really a shame that this outfit went tits-up:sad:

[CareBear]

Yes the rumours are true regarding the no objection letters - it's the one hold that the current GM has on everybody and he will use it when he sees fit.

CFI is still here but probably not for much longer - he will be leaving at the first suitable opportunity.

Many of the flight instructors have similar views but unfortunately for many of them they have too much invested just to pack up and leave.

Suffice to say that it is not a happy environment at Horizon at the moment and it is unlikely to change until or unless there is a management change.

As for the board of directors - they are out of touch with what is really happening as they only get given information by the GM. CFI spent some time trying to keep them informed but was then threatened with "serious consequences" if he sent any further information to the board!!!

[Cheesaburger]

Have they replaced the HOT yet, I saw an advert for the position. Not, by the sounds of it, that anyone with any sense would want to work with the GM, who appears to be the sort of T*sser that gives Arabs a bad name.

[CareBear]

HOT has not yet been replaced. The ads have been out for some time but as yet I don't think there have been any applications - Surprise surprise!!

GM is happy with the current situation as he effectively has control of everything so he is in no rush to change things and he has his own lackey that does all his work for him.

[Cheesaburger]

How are the students now, have any of them graduated, my source says they all hate the GM too. If even the locals hate him how can such a w*nker be in the position he is in?

[alouette]

Makes one think. In most cases the biggest numb nuts run a good company into the ground. I really question when there will be a revolt to run these bad apples into the water. It's time to get proactive. If everyone hates this dude then why is he not expelled, discommunicated, exiled, or else... I say a mutiny is on order to shake up the helicopter industry. Anybody else sharing my thoughts?:E

[CareBear]

Cheese,

38 students will graduate next week having completed 135 hours. It has to be said that the fact that they are graduating at all is all down to the exceedingly hard work put in by all the flying Instructors here.
At the end of the day i think Flying Instructors the world over feel the same about their students and hate to see them suffer as a result of others incompetence. End result -- All the guys at Horizon have been working their ***** off despite the problems from above. They have my utmost admiration and respect.

Allouette
Unfortunately it's not quite as simple in the Middle East as elsewhere to make such points. The labour laws here are quite different to anywhere else in the world and creating what would be seen as mass trouble would result in visa bans, work permit bans etc etc, effectively preventing anyone from working again in the UAE. The only alternative is for guys to vote with their feet and leave on the usual 3 months notice, however this can still result in a visa ban if the powers that be feel suitably put out. In addition, most instructors have invested a great deal of time and money in coming here and it is not that simple just to up sticks and leave.
Having said that, there may well be 1 or 2 that go in the near future.
The big problem is that it is obviously going to be difficult to recruit the right kind of people until the reputation of Horizon improves, but with a desperate shortage of instructors, and no sign of a change of management, it is unlikely that the reputation or conditions will change much. Catch 22!!

[Stuart Hughes]

What licence will the graduates be issued with and are they all local?

[CareBear]

Graduates will get a UAE / GCAA CPL(H) with Bell 206 rating, and yes they are all local guys.

[SiClick]

Laugh, I almost paid my messbill!
What a crock of badly written ****e; however, never let the truth get in the way of a good story:D

[Tuckunder]

This all sounds like a reincarnation of STATS OC Ltd. Trouble is AA will always prevail in the Middle East.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Tuckunder,

I can remember STATS starting up around the end of the 80s - they had some pretty experienced instructors head their way if I remember rightly; Bateen, wasn't it? What DID happen to STATS?

I have to ask - what is this intriguing AA acronym in this context? Anything like wasta?

[Tuckunder]

Thud and Blunder,

Hi, yes we did have a few! 4 ex CFS(H) we started up STATS in 92. Excellent instructors, ran 2 (QHI courses), dreadful mangement, tried to do everything on the cheap which was why I left. However, had a good time both at Al Dhafra and Bateen. Miss the sun but not the AA (Arab arrogance!!). 3am call outs into the North Sea aren't quite the same as sipping a cocktail round the pool at the Brit Club! But otherwise N Sea SAR is goodI Get the feeling I should know you. Send me an email.

[Stuart Hughes]

TUCKUNDER / THUD_AND_BLUNDER

Do I know either of you two guys from STATS days? I am what it says on the label. If so please email or PM.

I may also be able to shed some light on the "gentleman" everyone is referring to!

Cheers

S :ok:

[xavier95]

How are things at Horizon now, I was thinking of joining, but the place seems very unhappy and disorganised. Have they changed the man that seems to be making all the trouble yet?

[CareBear]

Xavier

Check your PM for an update

Regards

[Oracle]

In answer to your enquiry, Gulf helis is still operating and has been training new pilots by the dozen since last spring to replace the exodus of pilots leaving for better terms/conditions and management. Many have left already of course for better deals abroad!

Pay went up (well, sort of) at the end of the year by way of a 'dollar currency adjustment' which is basically a variable monthly -daily rate allowance to counter the plummeting value of the US $ right now. However, the company still hasn't bitten the bullet and just increased basic pay and many fear that all of the many various 'add-on' allowances will eventually vanish. Much easier to just pay a better fixed daily rate, accept that you will have to therefore pay a better annual gratuity and by so doing attract the BEST people!

Anyhow - the engineering problem has certainly strained resources and yet things still hang in there. Promises of more spares this year might help. Shame that a company that earns such fat profits from such a fat-cat industry can't just pay better wages and not be run like a private train-set by a non-aviator. Maybe companies are just addicted to bean-counters as managers! Still, are supposedly still available for those with reasonable quals and GHC have recently opened the doors to the over-60's club I am told - so maybe there is life after that tender age, after all?


:ok:

[noooby]

Hmmm. Must have been invisible pilots. I was there for most of last year, and while there were new pilots being trained, I wouldn't say they were being trained by the dozen. Not sure I'd be too keen on flying in the machines at the moment. I had a enough trouble getting things done properly when I was there, with others to help me. Now it must be mayhem!! I hear the Chief Eng that was fired, but turned up working on the shop floor a few days later as a spanner turner again, is now a Shift Supervisor. When will they learn that fired means p**s off!!
One question that still needs answering. Are those freakin helipads finished yet!!!!! ::mad:
I must say though, I feel for the two engineers that were posted to India by choice (one of them being Indian) only to be dragged back to Doha due to a lack of manpower. Poor Otis. Talk about kick a guy in the guts.

noooby

[CareBear]

Another Flight Instructor has just resigned........

The exodus continues

[rotaryman]

Let me Guess!!


Erm Shane??

:E

[CareBear]

No... He left a while back. Keep guessing but there's not too many to choose from, and likely to be even fewer in the coming months.

GM has now decided he is to be a headmaster as well and everyone has to get his approval first if they want to leave the building for any reason during the day!!! We'll all have to put our hands up soon to get permission to go for a ****:mad:

Thought things might be improving but without fail, everytime you think that he has an amazing habit of causing mayhem again,:confused:

[flyerh]

I have been following this thread because I spent 10 years flying in Dubai and am now very happy back in the UK.
I nearly fell off my chair when I read the reply from teletubby,it really gets up my nose when Arabs come out with this kind of ****! the we are doing you a favour by giving you a job with a salary BS.
If it wasn't for us humble expats since the beginning of the oil where would his country be now?
Does he think that the middle east is the best place to live and work, and does he really think that without a villa,health school fees and a competetive salary people would upsticks and go out there?
By the way I left Dubai and now earn more here after Tax than I earned out there Tax free.
You might want to read my reply on the crash in Dubai if you have not flown out there!
If you have an arab incharge,nothing will change,everybody will be blamed but him,there is no such thing as humility in their culture,which will eventually be their downfall.

[rotaryman]

I heard Shanes now Delivering Pizza's...:eek:

oh well make mine a meat lovers.............:ok:

:sad:

[shanel]

Rotaryman

Why the sudden interest in me, Sideshow Bob?
And no, I am not delivering pizzas. I didn't want to move into your area of expertise, or is that taxi driving, or is that being a security guard, or is that...............

[dipboss]

I totally agree with FlyerH. Although it is apparent to me that the Teletubby is not one of the locals but merely one of his currymunching administrative minions. No doubt he has the local in charge with his hand firmly up his **** forming the words for the garbage he has posted. As long as that particular individual is in a position of power and responsibility the School will continue to lurch from crisis to crisis. He has a long track record of screwing over expats and is only going to get worse not better in the future unless he is exposed as the Fraud he is - but it must come from some of the more reasonable locals. I think cheesaburger has vastly overated his employment potential outside the UAE - toilet cleaner is aiming way too high. If the locals have named him Blackheart it is a sure sign the man is malevolent. I have a geat respect for the UAE locals - but this man is just bad and not a true represantative emirati. I note that Mr Blackheart has engaged BAE in Adelaide to advertise for a head of training on his behalf - my advice would be to stay well clear.

[gadgetguru]

Sam or Thommo

please PM me if your lurking in here somewhere

cheers

AP

[rotaryman]

shanel...........

Sideshow Bob? lmfao.... you been watching to much of the simpsons.........Lets just say i have a friend who knows you well...


:p :p

[xavier95]

Thanks to all those who took the time to PM me. It seems that the groundschool side of thigs is quite happy but that the flying instructors are being worked very hard with a non helpful management. I think I'll leave alone for now and see what happens in a year or so

[Cheesaburger]

What are the salaries like there, they must be huge to put up with all the B*llsh*t and to afford the wonderful lifestyle that Teletuby so artistically describes.
Is it more than the Offshore companies (ADA, Gulf Heli's etc) are paying. Surely their management can't be worse than this slimy bloke with a black heart?

[SiClick]

When I was there FI's were on around $70 000 per year, GI's were on $60 000. Accommodation was around $15 000 per year, which is enough for a modest house. Generally the cost of eating out etc is quite high as the only decent places to go are quite expensive.
You need to weigh up the bull**** with the money, and in my case the bull**** bucket got filled up first. The salaries are quite good for the southern hemisphere guy's, so for some of them the balance of money to bull**** is in their favour. Perhaps thats why BAe Adelaide are advertising for the new HOT
Best Wishes to they guys that are still there, they were a good team, and a great bunch of guys to work with, despite the conditions.

[CareBear]

Chief Flying Instructor's bucket has reached the brim also and he has now resigned.

Despite his best efforts, nothing could be done to prevent DGM continuing to ignore basic flight safety concepts - he continues to try and keep pushing to reach unrealistic targets with a dire lack of resources.
Horizon has got away with it so far, but it simply cannot continue - it is an accident waiting to happen and there is little if any sign of improvement in the offing.

[Cdn driver]

Could you elaborate on what type of safety issues, if possible.

Considered giving them a jingle sometime ago but the responses on here certainly made me take a second look.

[bloggs@large]

The latest word drifting down from Doha is; The boss of the Training Dept has been fired.
Why? For doing his job! Which is maintaining standards and weeding out those below the standard.
his only mistake was that he declined to give a command rating to a muslim pilot. He offered to allow him to stay on as a P2 until his mental accuity improved (?). Another muslim went to the GM (a local muslim who has declared that he wants an all islamic company) and claimed the training boss was RACIST.
So JA was dismissed with NO chance to give his side of the events!!

So, if Gulf Helis advertises for Training Captains and you apply, be prepared to lower your standards or have a short employment tenure.

[bloggs@large]

The problems of LOCAL management is NOT confined to Al Ain

The latest word drifting down from Doha is; The boss of the Training Dept has been fired.
Why? For doing his job! Which is maintaining standards and weeding out those below the standard.
his only mistake was that he declined to give a command rating to a muslim pilot. He offered to allow him to stay on as a P2 until his mental accuity improved (?). Another muslim went to the GM (a local gentleman who has declared that he wants an all islamic company) and claimed the training boss was RACIST.
So JA was dismissed with NO chance to give his side of the events!!

So, if Gulf Helis advertises for Training Captains and you apply, be prepared to lower your standards or have a short employment tenure.

[Texdoc]

Seems like the norm. I here a Foreign National in between jobs had his local bank account frozen and credit cards cancelled until he found a new "sponsor".

[xavier95]

Things must really be bad, the CFI, and good instructors was supposed to be Horizons only good point. If they are all leaving now that is very sad. But 16 000 flying hours with 6 servicable aircraft, and 8 instructors does not add up, especially as I imajine it gets hot in the summer. Does the aircraft have A/C, whats is its performance in the heat?

[CareBear]

You're right - the sums don't add up!! and yes it does get hot in the summer - last year temps reached 51 degs celcius by mid day, and no the aircraft are not air conditioned!! The aircraft do perform ok generally, but it's ******:mad: hard and hot work.

One of the flight safety issues alluded to earlier are plans to try and make the instructors start flying very early in the morning(0500 met brief), fly until around 1200, then come back to work at around 1600 to do another couple of hours until just before dark!!! This is to try and make up for the lack of aircraft and instructor numbers.
Trying to get the message through that "spilt shifts" are not allowed to be used as a normal operating roster proved impossible>

[Cdn driver]

Sounds perfect.........tell the GM that between 1200 and 1600 you can be found by the pool drinking beer. :\

Good reading..........glad I did not forward off the resume now afterall.....whew

[Oracle]

My sources tell me that the recent sad demise (bullet on weekend leave) of the Training manager at GHC, training still continues apace. There was a huge loss of interest from the other training Captains though - and two have now left and another 1 or two have/are going to resign as they feel that tenure is not necessarily so good if you want to be professional and honest about people's standards. It would appear that no-one wants the TM job for this very reason right now - and although much reassurance has supposedly been supplied by the new A/CP on that score, seeing is believing. In the end it's always just safer and far easier being a straight line jo.

One suspects that overall, GHC will get worse before it gets better - as although the pilot numbers ARE increasing (overall) the experience level in country is reported to have fallen drastically and all of the old hands are still looking elsewhere - I am told that they have had the same bulldust for a few years now and nothing is changing on the senior management level to make them think that good times are ahead??? Sad for such a promising place and company that leadership is so sadly lacking/screwed up! Rumour control says that many ADA guys are now looking towards Doha as the SWAMP (van land) in AD is now falling apart and the Doha guys have a really nice set-up in compound villas. You pays your money and takes your choice guys, I suppose!

[Tuckunder]

It was exactly the same at Al Dhafra in the early 90s split shifts from an 0600 start possibly night flying until 0200 the following morning. Just smile and take the Dirham or object and come home. Thats life in the Middle East.

[xavier95]

If you want to run a school on the european JAR standards, should you not employ the european JAR standards for all of your training?
ie Should the HOT not be JAR rather than adverise in Australia?
Should the Instructors not follow a JAR FCL FTL scheme?
How do the local authority approve the training if it is not so?
Do the local authority helicopter examiners accept the standards if they are not JAR?

[Cheesaburger]

As I understand it the local authority (the GCAA) would not recognise a helicopter if it landed on their head. They have no examiners, inspectors or anyone with helicopter experience.
The current GM was given his license beacause he bought the head of licensing a nice paperweight with the Horizon logo on it. Much more important than any flight check!
Do not even imagine that Horizon will be training people to JAR standards. If it was, then they would allow JAR standards to operate throughout the operation.
No, Horizon's primary role is to look nice, which will work great, right up until the first accident. The fun then will be working out who the GM will blame, as none of the gross mismanagement, poor allocation of resources, breaches of regulations etc, will be his fault!
Makes me glad I never went there, but I feel sorry for the poor b*stards who are still there when the wheel comes off.

[pjohnson]

Well I guess it had to start sometime. The first terrorist car bomb went off last night in Doha around 2200, killing one Britain and injuring 12. The bomb was placed outside the Doha Players Theatre (a favourite expat haunt and accross the road from the Doha English Speaking School).

In relation to the "interesting" Currency Adjustment Allowance which was introduced by Guld Helis in December, it has now gone down by $4 a day. Funny, just about all currencies have strengthened against the US$ but Gulf has found some way of reducing the allowance. What a surprise! Since this allowance was introduced 7 captains have left so obviously the allowance is working a treat ;-)

Just about every captain in Gulf has be offered or re-offered Line Training positions. Funny, nobody seems to be jumping at the opportunity to earn an extra $10 a day (for touring pilots) and being called a racist and asked to leave the country within a few days!

Think carefully about any move to Gulf Helis.

[CareBear]

Xavier and Cheese

It is important to get things in perspective.

Xavier - you are absolutely correct - the school is attempting to run and train "in accordance with JAR principles", however as the UAE will never be recognised as a JAR approved state there is no requirement for JAR policy to be followed de rigeur. The original management wished to follow the JAR route to provide some standardisation and credibility for the training carried out, in addition it may be worthwhile for students in the future to at least be able to say that they have been trained in accordance with JAR standards and syllabus etc.

Cheese - I hear what you are saying, however the standard of training and instruction is not in question. Without doubt, Horizon has some of the most capable instructors in the world here and the students can only benefit from that. They are receiving instruction that in my estimation surpasses any provided by most if not all JAR flying schools elsewhere - the standard of instruction is not an issue, it is the support and conditions under which everyone has to work that is the issue.

As far as JAR licences etc go - the students receive a GCAA licence, NOT a JAR licence. It just happens that we teach to the JAR syllabus which far exceeds the requirements of the GCAA . The problem arises now in that the current management will compromise those standards when and as it sees fit simply to try and achieve the primary aim of turning students through the school. As has been stated before on this thread - Horizon will not simply disappear - it has too much local backing and investment for that to happen. What will happen however, is that instead of it becoming a premier training organisation in the Middle East as was planned by the original management, it will turn in to yet another mediocre, military based training establishment that simply turns out numbers to meet demand and to hell with the quality. Personally i would be very surprised to see any of the originally hired instructors here within the next 18 months or so. I think instead there will be many instructors (Pakistani?)from the now defunct military school who are brought out of retirement and brought back to UAE. It is quite possible that many of these guys were / are very capable instructors - I personally didn't know them so can't comment on that aspect - but what is for sure is that they will be happy to work for a lot less money and will simply do what they are told. Inevitably the standards will fall in the long run.

[Stuart Hughes]

:suspect:

Having read through these threads and received an email from an interested party, its sounds to me that the situation at Al Ain has not progressed one jot since I was there with STATS in 1990-92.

We were engaged to help set up the UAE Air Force training and operations on similar lines to the British Military. We seemed to be fairly successful at the time in spite of AA and even had CFS Staff from Shawbury visit to validate and examine a QHI course we had set up.

I thought Horizon had been set up to train for civilian licences but it seems they are still training for military forces.

I had applied for the post of HOT but was ‘Black Balled’ by an AA who I had difficulties with during my last stint at Bateen and Al Dhafra. Looking at the present situation he has done me a favour.

The main problem with working in the Middle East is that in their minds AA no longer need us for financial or military support as such. However, they still need the westerners’ know how and management skills. We have become the ‘hired hands’’ and once our usefulness is seen by them is no longer there then it’s goodbye.

The AA cannot lose face and if you make a suggestion that he can’t readily accept and it shows up his inadequacies then beware. You maybe on the next flight home.

If you guys can bite the bullet and keep the bank account rolling over then good luck. I must say I enjoyed the expat community in Abu Dhabi and Dubai and miss it.

SH

[African Queen]

These expats live in big villas, pocket fat tax free salaries, drive top of the range cars and their children go to private schools and have access to top medical doctors. They wine and dine in 5 star hotels and are enjoying their stay.

Top of the range cars ??? I have only seen a couple of old BMW's and a beaten up Boxter in the car park, no X5's or 500CLS's :)

Do they have non-private schools for expat kids in Al Ain ??

Do they drive to Dubai to see a doctor ??

Where are the 4 and 3 star hotels in Al Ain. What do you want them to do? Stay home in their huge villas ??

Doesn't sound much like they are enjoying their stay to me.

Etihad Airways has selected Horizon on a long term contract for training of its pilots. Etihad has recently signed the biggest contract with Boeing And Airbus for its 777 and A 380 aircraft.

Does this mean Etihad are going to start operating helicopters on long haul routes :) or are Horizon getting Airbuses ??

[Cheesaburger]

If Horizon is so good, how come they are setting up annother school in Abu Dhabi? The same Emirate?

[dipboss]

I understand that the new (Local) General Manager of Horizon at one point withheld the passport of one of the PHS Instructors after he resigned. A bit strange since the expatriate involved was not a Horizon employee at the time. Can anyone tell me whether this has happened again or a threat to do such a thing has been implied?

[spinwing]

"Cheseburger"

I have not heard any rumours of another school starting up here in Abu Dhabi ...please expand ???


"dipboss"

If the instructor s Visa was sponsored into the country by Horizon then his passport would have been held for Visa cancellation by the sponsor only whilst he was to exit the country ... ..perhaps there is more to this issue than meets the eye!

the UAE local law is quite specific ...NO Employer may hold a passport of an employee (without his permission) ...it is a punishable (?)offense....the passport is a document OWNED only by the country issuing it and NOT by the holder ...and that seems to have been emphasised to the UAE authorities by the many Governments who have in the past had issues with various UAE employers who HAVE illegally held passports to inhibit employees absconding which then causes problems for those employers getting replacement workers a work visa.

Thats the way it is!

Cheers :rolleyes: ;)

[SiClick]

There was a lot of discussion about the holding of passports. It used to be the military policy hence the current GM was very keen that Horizon should hold all Passports. If it were not for the intervention of the old GM, then it would have been the Horizon Policy.
There was an incident with an ex PHS guy who decided not to stay on, and the new GM tried to have his passport held "until the completion of the clearing process". This guy had no contract with Horizon.
UAE labour law is a nice book that sits on a shelf, and outside of Dubai it is seldom observed. Horizon with its flight duty hours is breaking UAE Labour law.

[Cheesaburger]

Helicopter Bell 206 & Bell 412 Head of Training, Ground and Flight Instructors (8 positions available)
Region: United Arab Emirates
Company: Betts Recruitment Ltd
Position type: Contract
Posted: Wednesday 6 April 2005
Job type(s): Flight crew, Instructors, Managerial and Executive, Operations and ATC
Description: Our Client, based in Abu Dhabi, UAE supplies aircraft parts, components, entire systems, technical servicing, maintenance and consulting studies to military and civilian users. Now developing their Flight School services, they wish to hire the following senior personnel:

a) 1 x Head of Training
b) 1 x Ground Instructor
c) 1 x Helicopter Chief Flight Instructor
d) 5 x Helicopter Flight Instructors

You must be a citizen of the EU
Be a holder of either JAA or other European Licenses only
Have a minimum 3,000 flight hours logged
Helicopter flying experience on Bell 206, 412 is highly desirable

Our Client offers:
Excellent Tax Free Expatriate Package
Excellent housing allowance in Abu Dhabi, UAE
Education package for children
Free Medical Care
Free air tickets for self and family
Paid leave (36 days/yr)
Minimum 2 year renewable contract

This can't be Horizon!

[Wood Cutter]

Heard all about this outfit at the Warbler :ok: in Bahrain during the Grand Prix...

The news from Gulf Air and Etihad peoples is to steer clear. This opinion is totally validated in previous posts.

Apparently they target the engineers as well as instructors, 3 engineers so far have got the bullet from Blackheart...

Will ask around at Emirates for more gossip. Hmmm.


Late note: Line Up has advertised for lots of instructors. Basically the same as the previous post.

Beer Time

[xavier95]

I recieved a phone message that was not clear, I think from Horizon. Can anyone over there tell me has anything changed yet. It seems they need instructors, but I don't want to go unless it is all settled and people are happy? I please ask to hear from someone at horizon that all is ok with the new CFI?

[skitzs]

new CFI? who said anything about a new CFI? did we miss something?

[thecloud]

Xavier - check your PM's.

[giveitsome]

Region: Qatar
Company: Gulf Helicopters
Salary: Excellent
Position type: Permanent
Posted: Monday 2 May 2005
Job type(s): Flight crew
Description: GULF HELICOPTERS COMPANY – DOHA, QATAR

Prefer Bell 412/212 Type Rated with minimum 100 hours on type

Recently ENHANCED TAX FREE remuneration package.


Hey there fellow Pruners. This is my first post so bare with me if I am not totally "Prune Current". My post relates to the following:

Above is the latest listing from Gulf Helicopters. I have the required experiece and mins for the job(s), hours and CIR renewals etc, however no 412/212 time. The add doesn't specify if the listing is for Co-pilots or Captains and what the ball park Tax free salary is for Captains and Coees and if the 412 endorsement is an absolute requirement.

If any one out there knows the answers to the above queries and what life is like working in Qatar/Doha, could you please let me know either via post or e-mail. I am Sikorsky trained and endorsed and am looking at working in UAE.

Serious responses Please.


:cool:

[Banzai-blades]

Is it not strange that this ad has been running for about 7 months now.

I know of a lot of people(10+) that responded and do fill the criteria and heard nothing again.

Look at their web page for requirements.

Must be somekind of info gathering excercise or they have a huge turnover of crew.

I smell something:E

[noooby]

High turnover would be about it I reckon.
Recently enhanced pay is CRAP. They gave an allowance to compensate for exchange rate fluctuations. Guess what? They have already reduced once, I bet they'll whittle it down to nothing as soon as they can.
Accommodation is OK, work is CRAP, management is CRAP. Oh and don't forget the Indian Mafia who run the travel/pay/accounts/admin/HR....."What do you mean that allowance is in the company manual Mr XXX. Let me see that (rrriiiiiiiiippppppp). There, that seems to have fixed that issue. Good Day". So ends the proof that an allowance existed that you weren't being payed for. Good luck. Take a straight jacket, you'll need it!!!!

noooby

[giveitsome]

Thanks fellas. I am of the same opinion that Gulf is in a data collection mode, since the Baby boomers are retiring keeping a company going will mean a large data base of young hopefuls that are willing to work for saw dust.

Thanks noobe for your honest appraisal of the situation. I checked out their web site and one of the first things they ask is "what is your expected income", fairly opened ended, some will reply "lots" others will reply some figure not even close to what working in DOHA is worth. Coupled with your comments about difficulties with allowances, I think I'll steer clear of a potential nightmare. Question is what are GH going to do with their ever expanding data base of pilots info?? Lets hope no call centers calling at 2 am while your in the rack advertsing cheap phone plans??

Big turn over is a little scary for the pros as no one wants to work for jam sandwiches or get caught up with s- -t management.

More replies welcome.

Give it some!!!!:(

[pjohnson]

Noooby is correct. The place is a disaster. A new "LOCAL" GM has been crowned and the place just keeps getting worse. Just a fraction under 60% turnover of pilots in 2004. My guess is that engineering was about the same.

The oil companies recently went to the Oil Minister to complain about the company's poor performance but he and the "LOCAL" board of directors simply closed ranks around the GM and nothing happened.

Conaco Phillips is so worried about the poor performance of the company that they've placed a permanent auditor at Gulf Helis to monitor the maintneance of their machine and the qualifications of the pilots flying their contract.

Also Doha had its first suicide car bomber a couple of months ago.

[SASless]

Sounds like mixed reports from what I hear...

The Middle East pay lags the market....even an experienced offshore pilot flying Day VFR 206's in the GOM can start at $56,000 which matches the GHC pay (within about $2,000) but includes medical insurance, self funded pension with company match, paid holidays....thus probably exceeds GHC).

There are only so many "cheap" pilots to be hired....

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

S**t happens. They will hire pilots of all experience levels, some who need the money, some who can't get a job with the more reputable firms (if there are any oif them left), some who need the hours and so on. It's life.

No offence, just IMHO.

Cheers,

NEO.

[giveitsome]

Thanks Fellas fairly obvious that GHC wants individual contracts for aircrew. In a nutshell because you don't know the start point for negotiations you could end up working along side some one doing the same job for less $$$$$$.

While I accept as NEO states "S- - t Happens" I'd Rather Iron my d - - k than end up shafted by the Curry consuming mafia. $120k current Sikorsky job is still looking good compared to whats on offfer. The Grass may be greener but usually needs a slasher once you get there.



Bit of a worry if the Chief pilots job is also advertised. GHC sounds like its in a melt down. Hope the guys have access to a life raft or parachute. I'd be looking for a "Martin Baker" let down right about now.

Thanks for the advice fellas. Iv'e seen and heard enough.


Giveitsome.




:bored:

[spinwing]

It would also seem that there are quite a few "hirings" comming from the "spanish speaking" parts of the world ....while they are real nice guys ... the mix of "indilish" and "spanish" accents can make for interesting comprehension experience over the radio!!!!! .....especially when traffic is BUSY! Ke!

:( :( :p

[skitzs]

oh oh more dirt on horizon!!:D got excited didnt we ? sorry i love to stir. just thought i would push it up the ranks a bit.:ok:

[Thud_and_Blunder]

I'd be interested to hear of any update. Our customers here received a pitch (for training 6 cadets) from Horizon, covering all aspects from pre-course English-language training through to GCAA-licence issue, the other week. No mention of the required twin-engine training in the pitch though, and one or 2 other gaps in the presentation. How viable are Horizon looking right now? What questions should prospective customers be asking (apart from "how come you've gone through so many CFIs/ other flying instructors lately?")?

[Cheesaburger]

My sources tell me that nothing has changed except more staff leaving. The GM still has no grasp of reality and enjoys ******* people. He apparently did his best to screw the old CFI, after he had left, depite all the good work he had done.
Good questions might include how come most proffesional training schools look at graduating 80-90 % of pilots. Horizon with a lower entry standard of students, has graduated 100% since the management changes. With all the turmoil at Horizon, is their any chance that the standards of a GCAA CPL are somewhat below those required by ICAO?

[Magjam]

Heli Dubai launches the United Arab Emirates first VIP helicopter service

http://www.ameinfo.com/images/news/0/14630-helidubai.jpg

http://www.ameinfo.com/60008.html

Magjam

[Seaking]

Government of Dubai launches a new VIP helicopter service

:ok:

http://www.ameinfo.com/60008.html


Heli Dubai launches the United Arab Emirates first VIP helicopter service.
Heli Dubai, established by the Government of Dubai, was launched officially in Dubai and the UAE during the Arabian Travel Market held during the first week of May 2005 at the World Trade Centre Exhibition Arena in Dubai.
United Arab Emirates: Saturday, May 14 - 2005 at 16:14 GMT+4

Heli Dubai operates a mixed fleet of Agusta 109E Power Helicopters and Agusta Bell 412 helicopters.
His Highness General Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Crown Prince of Dubai and Commander of UAE Armed Forces, established Heli Dubai in 2004 to provide a new standard of helicopter services both in Dubai and the UAE. Heli Dubai has further plans for expansion into the regional and global market, both onshore and offshore, in line with the policy of the Government of Dubai to be a centre of excellence for all aspects of the aviation industry.

Heli Dubai operates a mixed fleet of Agusta 109E Power Helicopters and Agusta Bell 412 helicopters.

The flagship aircraft is the Agusta 109E Power. This helicopter is configured as a five passenger, fast (maximum speed is 168 knots or 312 km-per-hour), VIP corporate transport aircraft. It offers a full leather interior, air-conditioning, a quiet cabin, and twin-engine safety in the most powerful helicopter of its class in the world. At present Heli Dubai has two of these aircraft operational with two more of the stretched version, known as the Grande, on order for delivery in 2006.

Heli Dubai has been recognised for the level of safety and comfort it offers by being the official aviation service partner for the Jumeirah International group. Heli Dubai is the only civil operator allowed to conduct public transport operations to the Burj Al Arab using the Agusta 109 helicopter.

The AB412's are undergoing a complete re-design of the main passenger cabin from 9 basic seats to an all business class configuration in a quiet cabin, with 8 forward facing seats, providing increased leg room for greater comfort and improved passenger viewing. Provision has also been made for in-flight refreshments. The AB 412 maximum speed is 145 knots or 267 km-per-hour. The first helicopter will be available for charter in September for the winter season.

The second AB 412 will be available at the end of the year and Heli Dubai is also in negotiation for the acquisition of at least two other light and medium twin-engine helicopter types which will allow greater mission flexibility.

Ibrahim Redha Ali, Chief Executive, Heli Dubai, says 'Heli Dubai is ready to launch itself into both the Gulf Region and onto the international helicopter markets, following the vision of the Ruler of Dubai, to establish Dubai as the centre of excellence for this exciting and challenging branch of aviation. We intend to be a world class competitor and by investing in both the best of machines and the best of staff, we will be.'

Heli Dubai offers airport to airport, hotel to hotel and tailored packages.

Should be interesting!!!!

:D

[outhouse]

Hi out there, following the back history regarding Horizon! Anybody know Horizon’s connection with the Emirates/CAE venture into 412 simulator training. I notice that a raft of new positions have been advertised supposedly with Emirates CAE? Any news would be gratefully received.

[outhouse]

Anybody know Horizon’s (Al Ain – UAE) connection with the Emirates/CAE venture into 412 simulator training. I notice that a raft of new positions have been advertised last month supposedly with Emirates CAE? Any news available?

[bloggs@large]

Previous posts on this topic have indicated that the standard of maintenance at Gulf Helis is VERY suspect. This opinion is held by GHC pilots, Oil Company auditors and some of the few engineers remaining on the GHC payroll. There have been opinions voiced of ‘every one waiting for a big accident’.
Not sure why none of the usually vociferous GHC pprune posters have not mentioned it BUT the word (substantiated) coming down from GHC is that they went much closer to having a maintenance caused BIG BANG as any partly sane company management would want to get.

The story is: A Bell 412 on an over land photo shoot, with both the sliding doors secured in the full open position, LOST the left sliding door in flight. It was only ‘the luck of being married to Irish’ that the door was lost Downwards and not up into the rotor. An air search failed to find the door.
As is his usual way S Mc of the engineering management immediately blamed the pilot!! S Mc you are NOT missed at ADA.
However the door turned up from a most embarrassing location ( the back yard of a senior manager of a GHC most important client ) and it was obvious that poor maintenance was the problem with one of the door retaining parts being way past WELL WORN. I wonder if S Mc apologised to the pilot??
Good Luck to the pilots and pax at GHC. BUT the good luck may have already been used up.

[Cdn driver]

This whole thread is a little disturbing.

Are things really this bad @ Gulf or are people just witch hunting. If things are as said, how / why are people still working there. Do the crews not have the power to say ¨¨NO, we are not flying aircraft that are not serviceable¨¨ .

Just curious.

[Wood Cutter]

Hey, heard how Blackheart totally screwed over the old CFI....

What a C*** this Blackheart is!

Seems like Blackheart used the same 'friends' that gave him his 'Instructor Rating' for this last bit of knifing for the old CFI. Such a pity as he is a good man who did so much for the company.

Another engineer sacked, and another (Lead engineer) resigned as well, so the grapevine says..

Who is left I wonder???



Quick, pass me a beer

[dipboss]

Wood Cutter

I think Mr Blackheart is probably one of the lowest forms of life on this planet and will continue to act to his entire satisfaction while he continues to scr*w his workforce. In the interests of all of us reading this forum and potential Horizon employees can you please give us more detailed information on his latest act. Aimed at an employee who no doubt has done his best in the circumstances in good faith and for whatever reason could not continue to oerate in the circumstances he was placed in by Mr Blackheart.

I would also like to think his activities do not go unrecognised by those who gave him the qulaification that got him started - I think a category check by CFS (H) would be in order - If he fails to come up to the standard - and we know he will, he will lose face and if he loses face he will lose power, and Horizon can get on with doing a professional and safe job. That their customers have already paid through the nose for.

[ThomasTheTankEngine]

Does have any information about the job advertised in Flight International. Like who the company is?

They needed a HT, CFI and some FI(H)'s. Staff had to be Europeon and hold JAA licences.

All info welcome, Thanks.

[whoateallthepies]

Thomas
Could it be anything to do with this?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151140

[ThomasTheTankEngine]

So are Horizon the same company who were advertising with Betts for a HT, CFI, and some instructors every one had to be Europeon and JAR licenced?

[ThomasTheTankEngine]

Hi Thanks, I think Ive got the info I needed.

[Cheesaburger]

A little bird tells me that Betts are doing their recruiting. I believe a poor unsuspecting HoT has been found (French or Swiss I think). They are still looking for a CFI, unless blackheart chooses to do that himself as well.
The guys are all still as happy as ever

[Wood Cutter]

Dipboss.

Sorry for the delay, have been drinking beer in far lovelier climes.

Word has it, from good sources, that Blackheart used his wasta with the GCAA to get the old CFI 'blackbanned' from working in the UAE in any aviation role that has dealings with the GCAA. He was in the process of finalising employment with another UAE company, but has now been canned due to non-approval from the regulatory organisation, GCAA. I hope the old CFI enjoys a different heat now!

Different sources have mentioned the interesting way Blackheart's 'qualifications' have been obtained, interestingly the same names are mentioned in both discussions....

Oh well, back to life here...

[dipboss]

Wood Cutter

Thanks for the info - It looks like Mr Blackheart is now totally out of control - I understand he has also sacked a number of the locally engaged staff from Receptionists, Administration Managers and PR as well as not renewing the contracts of the more experienced expatriate Horizon Pilots. It would also appear that he has engaged a number of his slimy mates.

A timely warning for those considering employment at Horizon and those who may be considering using Horizon for training their pilots.

:uhoh:

[Flying Lawyer]

These pics were sent to me by my chum Graham Waddington who flies for Heli Dubai.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Dubai7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Dubai3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Dubai6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Dubai4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Dubai8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Dubai2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Dubai1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Dubai9.jpg


Photographs - Neville Dawson

[Stringfellow Dork]

Jealous?

Nahhh...

[on21]

Jealous, I tell you, my mate is out there flying, and hates it, claims to get no respect from the locals flying for the same company!

I would give my left B*****k to stay at that Hotel, and have a few weeks in the sun.

[SASless]

Heck,

I don't get any respect here.....so whats the difference?

[Darth Nigel]

Just looked up the hotel on Expedia -- assuming it is indeed the same Burj el Arab, you can get a cheap room for $680.75 a night, and a decent room for $953.05 and a top-of-the line suite for around $2400 a night. Dunno if that includes the continental breakfast or not.

Round-trip flight will add a bit, and I'm not sure if SouthWest or EasyJet goes there.

So whose organizing the Dubai Bash then?

[Flying Lawyer]

on21

I assume it's horses for courses, and much depends on the company.

My friend who sent the pics seems to enjoy it as much now as when he first went there.

[MightyGem]

Ahhh, wondered where Graham had got to. Last saw him some years ago.

[paco]

Some companies don't employ locals!

phil

[on21]

He's fixed wing with a large carrier, he's back next month after about two years.

Thats the main reason he's has enough, or that the reason he's giving me anyway!:=

[John Eacott]

The hotel featured in Getaway on TV this week, here (http://getaway.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=53495). Apparently the rooms/suites start at $2400 a night, they weren't able to get the expensive $20k+ units 'cos they were all booked out for the next fortnight!!!!

FL, time for another holiday, methinks ;)

[spinwing]

Mmmmm.... my how the place has changed since I first went to work there in 1980 !!!

Then there were NO traffic jams or gridlock. You could find your way around the place easily .....

NOW ... well its sort of like a cross between downtown Mumbai (Bombay) and Disneyland ...

Enjoy Enjoy !!!!!


:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[KENNYR]

Graham, if you are reading this I am glad that you are in a good location........Ken

[diginagain]

ditto from a former crewman.

Machen Wir.

[F100BIRD]

Hi all.. can anyone give me any info on Bexair in Bahrain, been shortlisted for vvip position as Flight attendant..
cheers

[Bilbo Bagover]

Does anyone here know the weight/operating limits for the helipad on the Burj Al Arab Hotel in Dubai?

Thanks in advance for any information.

Bilbo

[Brilliant Stuff]

I have an Idea but I let the ones who operate onto it answer that one, they do participate on this forum.

[VeeAny]

No I don't operate to it, but I did email the hotel, their reply was

The helipad restrictions can be summarised as follows:

7.5 Ton MTOW

Diameter 20m

Category A or Class 1 rotorcraft only.


Hope this helps

V.

[jugs]

I would suggest you double check with Heli Dubai
[email protected]



jugs

[oryxs]

Any improvement in maintance/management? I see they are still looking for pilots. Even advertising in Flight International

[Dis-Mystery of Lift]

Hi All,
Anyone know what Gulf Helicopters pay thier Co's?Thanks

[Bravo73]

Not enough, judging by this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2031841#post2031841).

:uhoh:

[Dis-Mystery of Lift]

Thanks Bravo:ok: Anyone got more recent info on GHC,Aerogulf?Thanks again

DMOL

[Rotorbike]

Last I heard, Aerogulf weren't able to accept co-pilots due to a contract requirement for 100 hours, 212 time.

Abu Dhabi Aviation is Capt. only too, unless you are a local.

Can't answer your Gulf Helicopters question.

[Aesir]

I have a friend that flies as 412 captain for Gulf helicopters in Iran. He makes $381.- pr day when at work. Nothing for time away on leave.

The work schedule in Iran is 4/4 weeks.

I was offered a copilot position about 2-3 years ago on their B-230. pay was to be $172.- I declined the offer :ooh:

[pilot 5350]

Hi All

This is an update for what my friend-Autorotate- posted.

Arabian Helicopters are no longer in business. Saudi Aramco contact is below:-

Saudi Aramco
Box 530 Tanajib
Aviation Department
phone (966) 3 378 4085
Fax (966) 3 378 3984
Saudi Arabia 31311

Email of Chief Pilot - Adel A. Al-Aboud
[email protected]

[noooby]

Dis-Mystery,

Take your own life jacket would be the only piece of advice I have. All the good people they had have left due to pay and conditions, very high turnover of pilots and engineers.
About four years ago, to be considered to work at Gulf as an Engineer, you had to have 5 years experience on either 212s or 412s. Now they are advertising for Engineers, and they ask that you have a rating on 212/412, but they will also consider you with helicopter experience, and licenced without type rating. Hmmm, seems they have runout of people to recruit, as far as engineering goes anyway.
Good luck!!!!!!


noooby

[RotorSwede]

Aesir: My calculator is working doubletime here =) It would be interesting to know what percent the taxes are down there ?

Also, when you write 4/4, that means work 4 weeks, off 4 weeks? Does that mean you take the daily pay times 30 and get what you make in 2 months ? I'm new to this way of describing the wages.

Also, do most pilots leave for home during their 4 weeks off ? In that case does the company help anything with the hometrip ?

Thank you

RotorSwede

[warmfront]

so back to the original question.......... what do the Capt/Co's get paid at Gulf H/Aba ... ! ok slight addon to the original one

PS. if anyone has the info id also be interested in the fixed wing rates at Aba

Cheers:ok:

[nutcracker43]

RS,

I knew a Swede who lived part of his time in N. America and part of his time in Sweden. In this exampl, make sure that your place of domicile is the furthest (and therefore) most expensive destination from Doha. In this example if you had suggested Stockholm was your place of domicile and on the second and third tours you wanted to vist your other home in N America, the extra cost will be borne by you.

NC43

[gn4p7]

I see there are six, yes six, engineer adverts for Gulf helicopters on the first page of Aviation job search(helicopter jobs section). Three different companies are trying to get people to work there with grossly embelished terms and conditions. I think they are becoming desperate. It's amazing how they can pay these agency fees but can't give the people working there (not many now) a pay rise to stop them leaving, classic bean counter economics:mad:

I think a door falling off might be the least of their worries before too much longer. We all know who'll wear the can for that, and don't expect any support from the yes men in charge, they'll be covering their own backsides as usual.

[pjohnson]

Re Gulf Helicopters:

1. One licenced engineer resigned last week
2. Three licenced engineers resigned on Sunday (first day of the working week in Qatar)
3. Two more licenced engineers will resign within a couple of weeks.

Today they had 5 a/c available from a fleet of ten in Doha. The hangar is like a traffic jam - they keep towing them inside but there's no one to work on them!

To the gent who hinted that it can't be all that bad or all the pilots will leave. This might be true for pilots from most western countries but Gulf Helis, is now recruiting pilots from South America and other places, who come because they think the pay is unbelievably good (in comparison to there home countries) and know nothing of what's really happening in the company.

The locals have discovered the global economy so look out :-)

[outhouse]

You paint a very sad picture pj can the situation be as bad as you paint?

[SASless]

Outhouse,

I cannot speak for GHC...but it does get that bad at other places....a real crunch occurs...then the greedy wallahs in the front office have to change their ways....hire and re-hire....invest in the operation and people and then things get better again.

The shame of it all is the hate and discontent that the Universal Helicopter Operator We Will Show You Cycle causes to the Engineers and Pilots. The Boyo's in the Ivory Towers forget the folks that fly and maintain the aircraft are an integral element of the success of the company....and for the sake of a few Dollars ....they run off the good help, the help, and finally the hangers on.....until the wagon breaks down. Then the cycle starts over.

I have been doing this since 1972....the trick is picking out which outfit is on the way up from the bottom point of the curve and ride that wagon until it crests and leave before it starts down the other side. Every single one of the major operators have undergone this experience at least once if not several times.

The pity is there is no competition for GHC.....thus rates are not an issue nor competitive pressure....it should simply be a money machine for all concerned. I would suspect that old thing called GREED trips up the works.

[Joker's Wild]

Ah well, last time I checked, the old law of supply and demand applies to everyone who hung out their shingle.

Logic dictates sooner or later there are more departures than HR can replace in the same time frame. And we all know that once the difficult questions start being asked, it's only a matter of time before things change..........................that is of course, once the requisite amount of internal blood letting is dispensed with and they start dealing with the issue properly. :mad:

[SASless]

Step one to curing the problem is to sack all the HR assets....and go back to the old way....Chief Pilot recruits and interviews...hires and fires....and has an assistant to do the paperwork. Chief Engineer recruit and interview....hire and fire....and have an admin assistant to do the paperwork.

They cut back on the working staff....and keep the damn drones around!:mad:

[pjohnson]

Hi outhouse

If you were with Gulf Helis more than 2 years ago, then I'd expect you'd think all these negative comments were "a bit over the top". However, the tables have turned, big time. Gulf Helis now has a local GM who quite plainly states that he wants to Islamise the company. Even the Admin Manual now states that the priority for hiring is:
1. Qataris
2. Muslims
3. Others

His plan to save the company from all the engineering departures is to fill the hangar with engineers from Nigeria and Egypt.

In summary, with one of the engineering management team just about to resign because he thinks Gulf Helis' engineering department is untenable, the situation is dangerous.

I understand that, if you need the hours or the money, this will simply be seen as scaremongering and you will go. This is normally the case in this industry.

Good luck.

[noooby]

Outhouse, it really is that bad. I left late last year and thought it was bad enough then!!! At that point in time we had about 10 Licenced Engineers walk over a period of 2 or 3 months.

pjohnson, it would seem that the illustrious local GM has really gone and screwed the pooch now with that admin manual amendment!! anyone started a lottery to see how long things last!!!

when i was there turning spanners, and that is only 9 or 10 months ago, we were doing 23 to 27 flights everyday, cept friday which would have about 15. all aircraft (9 at that point) were available nearly everyday. engineers ask for payrise because fleet getting bigger but manpower not, payrise denied, engineers walked. too bad GHC, you really missed the bus. it is far easier to look after the people you have, than to find replacements.

noooby

[munchkins]

Rumour has it that Steve Mc has thrown in the towel at Gulf Helis. Something to do with the locals being promoted into the key Mgmt. positions?? It appears their maintenance isn't getting any better.

[SASless]

One can put up with a lot of ills....but poor maintenance is not one of them...I have left a couple of places over that without a moment's hesitation. Life is short enough without standing on the trapdoor of a gallows and putting your own head through the noose.:uhoh:

[Oracle]

It would seem that after three years of concerted (and decidedly negative) effort by the senior management, Gulf Helis has now reached a state of complete meltdown, with 5, maybe 6 aircraft at best on the line out of 12 aircraft and those numbers will undoubtedly reduce as there seems to be no interest in getting either major components to service the aircraft or replacement quality engineers to fix 'em! The pay for licenced engineers at ADA now exceeds that at Gulf Helis by $2000 per month, I am told. Small wonder the guys get pissed off and vote with their feet! No-one at home in the head-shed though to listen?

Management have been away for a cozy month's leave whilst this disaster has continued to unfold, despite continuous warnings of impending doom by knowledgeable folk within the company for the last two years, - previous CP included. Integrity is an unknown quality at this level nowadays. Islamisation has failed and will never make it commercially within this company without the loss of all of the oil companies. Whate they want is SAFE and reliable flight operations with well-maintained aircraft and properly qualified and experienced pilots and engineers. That's what they pay for. But our 'suitably qualified and experienced Islamic brethren wont normally stay for more than 3 years in such a sweaty, underpaid business that is so poorly run. They have a pain threshold too! Only expats suffer when the money, terms and conditions are sufficient. They are below the curve again now.

The official company HR recruitment policy of ''paying peanuts and getting monkeys'' has finally run the company down to below self-sustain at last. Penny wise, pound foolish sums it up! No investment in manpower, or infrastructure in the last three years, - just use the company as a cash-cow and strip it bare. And The Man has an MBA? Hmmm!

Recovery will probably require a complete change of management from the top down (if the Chairman/Oil Minister is brave and sensible enough to finally wake up and smell the roses at last.)

An immediate cash injection to re-invest about $2 million of filthy profits back into the company might work, before GHC folds completely or CHC moves in for the kill. Such a shame. Gulf Helis has/once had a great team of pilots and engineers but its crap, incestuously corrupt administration and dull, non commercial aviation management looks like it is still intent on penny-pinching a once fine company into an early grave. One can only hope that the Emir or the Deputy Prime Minister will FINALLY get to hear the truth about MM and his ''lost plot'' management style and will act swiftly to rectify the situation once and for all, before the wooden box is placed under the light switch for the last person out of the door.

Wishful thinking perhaps. :cool:

[gn4p7]

Outhouse, this would seem the logical thing to do, unfortunately i can't see this happening. All the people in the white shirts(engineering) have been aound the middle east for years. Indeed they have worked for GHC before in the very same positions, the ex chief engineer has worked there pretty much all his working life. He is still there! It is my bet he will climb the ranks again, thats the way it's done in aviation in the middle east.
As for any other company coming in and taking over, forget it, it's not going to happen. GHC will limp along for some time yet i expect maybe even until the last Helicopter is U/S.
After all, it's not about the Flying it's about Admin and HR, thats what the company is for;)

[Camel Driver]

I am looking for contact info for companies operating in Dubai. Specifically Heli-Dubai if any one has it. I have read through the "Flying in the Arabian Gulf" thread and found contact info for AeroGulf but I didn't notice any for HD. If anyone has this info or happens to know HD's requirements and could pass them on it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

CJ

[Sandy Toad]

[email protected] should get you in touch.

[Camel Driver]

Thanks very much for the info ST. Do you know who I would direct an inquiry to in regards to a pilot position at HD or even if they are in a hiring mode? How about Aerogulf? I am in the preliminary stages of moving to Dubai with my wife and I thought I would put out a few feelers with the local companies. I will be sending an email to each company I was just looking for a little inside info. Anything anyone has would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Camel Driver

[pitchlink]

Hope you dont have kids! If the Aerogulf allowances are anything to go by you will not be able to afford to put them through the education system!!!!! Maybe something to bear in mind when talking to heliDubai.

[Camel Driver]

Thanks for the heads up but no kids and my wife is a teacher who is in the early stages of the recruiting process to work for an International school. Dubai is our first choice as we have friends who have just returned and highly reccommend it. I would like to see what is available at ADA, Heli-Dubai and AeroGulf although working right in Dubai would be first prize. Is Dave Butler still the man to talk to at AGS?

Thanks in advance?

[paco]

Dave Butler is the Chief Pilot - see you there in Oct!

phil

[Sandy Toad]

HeliDubai e-mail is good for Chief Pilot. Certainly expanding and they will need more of the right people. Nothing ventured.....

[Camel Driver]

Thanks again Sandy Toad. I'll drop them a line and see if I fit that category.

[biff dup]

If you're coming to Dubai I hope for your sake that you're going to be on a good package - no official inflation statement last year but some sources suggest it was maybe even as high as 38% and they expect about the same again this year!

I came out having done my sums fairly carefully and now, two years later, I'm bugging out as I can't afford to live here. As I've said to a few guys, before I came to work here I could afford to stay in the Jumeirah Beach for a weeks holiday with the family - now I can't even afford to go in there for a meal!!

Lifestyle here can take a bit of getting used to - the daily attempts on your life by hopeless drivers gets a bit wearing after a while....

each to their own though..

[Camel Driver]

That's a pretty dramatic increase in the cost of living. If my wife and I end up there it will be with her having a teaching job. This from what we understand from some friends who just returned from Dubai comes with decent accommodation provided. If I can't find anything locally I will continue touring. I am guessing that housing is the major expenditure. Surely with 2 decent incomes a couple with no kids can make ends meet?

How does Abu Dhabi compare to Dubai as far as cost of living goes?

[biff dup]

With both of you working you should be able to put something away - my wife didn't work and I do have children.

Lots of hidden costs, so although it's 'tax free' (although not totally) it's still expensive. My wife, who seems to know about these things, believes white goods/clothing to be within about 5% of the price in the UK - foodstuffs are now cheaper in the UK (although that wasn't the case when we arrived). I'm led to believe that there is support amongst the local population for the introduction of income tax - as has been recommended by the IMF, I think. The 5% municipality rent tax and the tax on the value of your home are now being more strictly enforced too.

Cars relatively cheap - Gulf spec. Petrol still really cheap, although there was a 32% price hike at the beginning of this month and we are told to expect further rises in Nov and Jan.

I think accommodation costs may be a little cheaper in AUH but you really want to spend the minimum amount of time on the roads here - so live somewhere that is near workplace for you both.

If you have the chance I'd say come out and take a v careful look around before you sign any contracts - don't be blinded by the shiny high rises and the bull****.

A lot of people in my current employer call this 'mudguard city' - shiny on top and ___ underneath.

[CareBear]

It seems things have not changed at Horizon - another instructor has just resigned and the word is that MZ is still up to his old tricks.

The comments regarding the previous CFI were correct, however he is now happily esconced in Darkest Africa running a charter and Medevac operation.

I believe Horizon still does not have an official CFI - something rings a bell about only having 60 days to nominate one or operate illegally??!!! I guess MZ has given a few more clocks out to his mates to bend the rules yet again.

My commiserations and warm regards to all who are left at Horizon

[countonme]

Carebear

Nice to hear from you, sounds like you are happy now. All the points you make and have made are based on your perspective, which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. The FI you refer to has had a history of leaving and returning to suit his means, and has now decided to go for personal reasons. Yes we will miss him, but the sinister implications you make are unfounded as you do not have all the facts.

IMHO you will find that MOST instructors and other staff are happy at Horizon. I am sure there are still a lot of negatives that some staff feel but a lot of the past problems have gone. There is a positive feel about the place.

I am not entering into a who's right and who's wrong or slaging anyone off here. Boring stuff, I know, but it's about time the balance was addressed. There will always be a difference of opinions, some will take it personally, some will take it on the chin.

Your contribution was appreciated by all. It's now time for us all to move on.

Thanks

countonme

:ok:

[CareBear]

Countonme

Thanks for your comments - I'm glad to hear that things seem to be settling now at Horizon.

Yes - I do have my own opinions, but all my comments have been based on what has been told to me directly from the horses mouth by staff at Horizon, and the message I have been getting is that the majority of people there were NOT happy. I sincerely hope that that is no longer the case.

I accept your comments re the last FI to leave, however I do believe that I had the full story - either way it is not of importance now.

I genuinely hope that things improve for all at Horizon - a lot of effort has been, and is being expended by all the FI's there. I was very grateful for the support I received from them during my time at Horizon and I hope that things work out for everyone - they deserve it.
Regards

[212man]

Couple of ads in this week's Flight:

http://www.flightinternational.com/Jobs/2005/11/07/1450869/Helicopter+Pilots.html

http://www.flightinternational.com/Jobs/2005/11/07/1450876/Pilots.html

;)

[Cheesaburger]

Countonme
If everything is rosy in the garden, why have 3 more guys decided to leave, since carebear had enough?
I thought happy people stayed put? perhaps things are different in the middle east!!!
Cheese

[Bitmonx]

Does anybody know the current Chief pilot at ADA?
Would be great to get his email as well.

Thanks

[chevy 76]

hi,
last add in Flight international,

http://www.flightinternational.com

Region : Qatar
Company : Gulf Helicopters
Position Type : Permanent
Posted : Thursday, 17 Nov 2005
Job Type : Flight crew


good luck,

[noooby]

good luck,

you'll need it. take a parachute :uhoh:

[CareBear]

I hear that yet another instructor has just resigned, and that there has been no real substantive changes at Horizon over the past few months.

Countonme - can't work out why you still seem to think all is well - seems to me people wouldn't keep leaving if everything was rosy.

[drakkar]

Could somebody working for this company tell me, honestly, what means the " excellent package", concerning the salary.

Thanks, Drakkar

[noooby]

Here is a hint. If the package really was excellent, people wouldn't still be leaving in droves!!!
The only 'payrise' they have had since I left, is an allowance to allow for exchange rate fluctuations. This allowance changes month by month I believe, and seeing as it is an allowance, and not part of your basic pay, they can (and proabably will) remove it at any time, with or without your knowledge. :\
They have been promising a rise in the basic pay rate since 2001. But it still has not happened.

[xavier95]

I heard there was a Bell 206 incident or accident in the Middle East, anything to do with Horizon?

[gn4p7]

They Did have options on the 139 when i was there, but these were cancelled. The S92 will fill the VVIP role, to be crewed and maintnained by nationals only apparently. Can't have foreigners working on the new stuff:rolleyes: As nooby said, the exodus is continueing, at least on the engineering side don't know about the Pilots.

[pjohnson]

The last two 6 and 6 captains left during the last month. Don't believe the Flight mag ad which offers 6 and 6. The national GM won't allow any more 6 and 6 positions. For touring pilots it's 8 and 4 only, unless you want to go to Iran which is 4 and 4.

Of course, if you happen to be of the Islamic faith you just might be able to get whatever you want ;-)

[Oracle]

Back-track. To those of you blissfully ignorant enough ( and I mean that in the nicest possible, trusting way) in the sane world of Blighty to think that Gulf Helicopters is ACTUALLY offering what it advertises in Flight International (it ought to be called FLIT International at Gulf helicopters, based on the number of experienced expat Captains and engineers who continue to leave the company as I write this tome), here starteth the first lesson!

1) Welcome to the La-La (as in Arabic: No!-No!) land of HR and ''senior management'' at Gulf Helis! When GHC advertises ''Attractive Package'' they are merely talking about what most of us see after we are paid crap, can't afford clothes and are left only holding our own :mad: ...ing "Attractive Packages"!

2) As my learned friend has previously advised, it's all a LOAD OF BOLLOCKS! Gulf Helis hasn't actually put up their new-Captain's pay significantly for 4 years (and in fact now pays less than it did four years ago- factoring in the rates of inflation and cost of living in Qatar since - that's even with the ("Now you see it - Now you don't") Currency Allowance - which will inevitably disappear down the Swannee River (just south of Qatar Airways Hangar at Doha Intl. Airport) when the priceless GM (i.e. everything can be got for a cheaper price) has recruited enough odd-ball, disenfranchised, grossly cheap and hugely underqualified North African Islamic gentlemen to fill the 412's driver's seats!

3) No, chaps - life is NOT all Sweetness and Light in the richest per capita country in the world! Far from it! If HH the Emir TRULY wants to know why all of his experienced and valuable expatriate professionals are leaving Qatar, he only has to watch the antics of wee Mr. Mohd M. as he over-meddles so hopelessly with his private train-set (GHC) using his finely-tuned 'Souk Mentality'' (i.e. his addiction to saving pennies and losing millions of pounds) until he inevitably de-rails the whole bloody shebang!

4) Further translation for interested applicants from Flit International: "VVIP Pilots wanted for S92 Operations" ACTUALLY means -- "Well guys, it's like this, we ARE getting ONE big ole S92, which if you join us thinkign you will fly, you will NEVER be allowed to sniff the paint of (being unworthy, an infidel and far too experienced), but Gulf Helicopters WILL shamelessly lie to you about this (and much else) and happily recruit you into the coal-face of the company's offshore 412 operations in Qatar (and Iran) on an 8/4 or 6/1 contract (4/4 ony in Iran as the man said previously), pay you ****, make you sign a huge f-ing BOND of about $40,000 US purely to get that utterly deceptive SNIFF of the S92 (- never to be sent on a training course or fly it, of course - it will only do about 120 hours a year), will promise to treat you increasingly badly (unless you are an Islamic Brother - because Gulf helicopters is a WHOLLY unbigoted, equal-opportunity (if not affirmative action) employer (NOT!), work you up to your maximum allowable duty and flight hours every week, (6 days on, 1 day off for 8/4 workers) gradually reduce all remaining contractual benefits, death insurance, paid sick leave allowance, local holiday entitlement and anything else that H.E. the White Ghost can come up with in his demented Master-Plan for 2006,7,8 (This was borrowed from Hitler's Plan for the Fourth Reich rising out of the ashes back in 1946).

5) Oh - and don't forget that perchance you will indubitably end up whilsting Dixie (or saying a few 'Hail Marys') as you gently flutter down towards the ogg on one engine and a large oath or prayer in some obscure spot 85 nms out to sea, - whilst back in the office the Senior Management (well, at least GM , Ch Eng & Ops Man) fiddle with themselves (or play golf all day) as Rome burns around them and the GHC hangar becomes more like a Souk alley workshop than a safe and professional aviation concern.

6) The future? Wow! - What a dreamer you are! Right now the company's survival is limited to a little over spitting distance. Some folks just need to experience total meltdown and abject company failure (or a major accident) before they finally bloody realize that SAFETY and INTEGRITY are the only acceptable foundation stones and essential concerns of any professional (and formerly renowned) International Helicopter company.


So boys - do you STILL want to work for Gulf Helis? If so, get your Funny Farm stall seat reservation at the door and bring your own Xanax!:mad: :mad:

:8

[CareBear]

Xavier95

There was a minor incident with one of the Horizon aircraft but this was some time ago now (at least 4 months) and was more to do with an instructor's decision making process than anything else. There was no major damage involved (an engine overtemp only) and no one was hurt

HOWEVER.........

This is from the horses mouth..........
"Engineers are being shafted by ******, obviously Za*** pulling the strings there, they still not got their passports, being held in limbo some where because they wont sign the Horizon deal, once ADA said they couldnt return there, horizon cut their salaries knowing they had no choice, and now **** is saying they are bound to horizon because they have accepted a few months pay so its auto matic, we only have the 3 main guys and one who seems to tour, everything else is done by ******, god help us"

I guess from those comments it is only a matter of time before the engineering really suffers. There were some measures being taken when I left some 6 months ago that seemed perilously close to being dangerous to me then - it looks as though things are only continuing to slide ever downwards.

Keep your eyes open and your chins up chaps !!!!

[VEMD]

http://www.shephard.co.uk/Rotorhub/Default.aspx?Action=745115149&ID=bc4b0771-03e9-4d18-9a47-e6f4ebcfdb51

[whitehawkup]

Ok. I'm a newbe to the prune.

Experienced twin operator in Aus. Looking for the pot at the end of the rainbow. Have read all the posting re drivers in the Middle East.

So who is the best to work for now and how much do they pay. I see the 6.6 roster is gone, but is that for all operators? I have a young family and am sick of the thought that in Syd top wack is A$85,000 gross. We all know we get paid **** for what we do but I was always under the impression that over in the Middle East you all lived like kings, I am gutted to see it appears not. I am looking for that job that has better prospects then the Aus side. Does anyone pay well and give good conditions. The 8.4 roster is too hard on the family.On a 6.6 or 4.4. or 8.4 do you get paid on your time off?

Can anyone help with info.

[delaminator.]

No end of rainbow here man. Best guys to work but worst money is Aerogulf in Dubai.

Second best is Abu Dhabi. Best pay hands down but accomadation is shocking. Yu will only be paid for when you work and medical beneis the same

Bottom of the heap is gulf Helis in Qatar. Their moto seems to be "let the beatings continue until moral improves." They include expense per diem in the pay quote they give you. You will only be paid for days you work and no bennies off work either.

For you I would have a look at CHCGlobal. Not the Aussie version but the international version. Good pay Good benifits and a 6 and 6 rotation. Paid for your training days. Good allround outfit. Expenses over and above pay.

If you are determined to come play in the sandbox CHC has a base in Iran.

Finally....be careful what you wish for.

[Oracle]

For our new Australian friend - yes, ADA (Ad or Iran) or CHC (Iran) might be attarctive - although CHC there only offers 45 days about. GHC does offer 4 weeks on and off in Iran, but it is highly probably that the operation there will run down in the near future - so you might put your bum in a sling if you shot for that now. Still - not a bad deal though if you can get on with the locals, which is essential. They are a nice bunch actually!

Other option is Nigeria where there is a desperate shortage of IR Twin Captains and if you have anything useful :76, 412, 212, Dauphin, you will be sucked in by any of the operators there faster than you can fart! You should also be able to get/negotiate a 6/6 there without any hassle. Nigeria has its drawbacks, but so has everywhere these days, mate!

Good luck with your jobsearch! :cool:

[whitehawkup]

Ok, I see now the options are narrowing. Thanks for taking the time to post. Does anyone know what the cash is like. Aprox how much in a 12mth period?

I have heard Africa pays well. I have also heard that the only way in is through Bristows UK?

I am starting to think that Bristows Aus is a good option. They seem to pay the most. Skippers aprox $A130,000 gross. Thats for a 14 day on 10 off cycle. Can this be beaten in the sand pit?

Cheers

:ok:

[spinwing]

Probably not .... particularly for touring .......

Bare in mind that an Australia based touring pilot technically is liable for Australian Govt. Income Tax assessement will really depress you ...... You don't win (much)....

In fact you are better off with an Aussie job which pays tax free allowances than a M/E job which doesn't pay taxfree allowances! but will require you to lodge a return....

Be careful ...

Cheers :(

[eagle 86]

Whitehawkup,
You can tell me to stuff off if you like but if I was in your personal shoes I would seek out what appears to you to be a poor paying Oz-based job with a good family situation rather than chase "big" dollars in some arsehole of a country on the other side of the world. Remember touring means that Sod's Law dictates that you are guaranteed to miss important family occasions regularly.
There are some very satisfying twin jobs at home where other aspects make up for the "big" dollars.
When I started out no-one ever told me I was going to make a million out of operating helos.
GAGS
E86

[munchkins]

Bitmonx. The chief pilot at ADA is John Hanley. The best way to get in touch with him is by logging on to their web site at:www.adaviation.com Matter of fact I understand that ADA prefer on-line applications. Oh yeah one more thing, ADA is a good company with the exception of their disgusting housing site. Nothing, and I repeat NOTHING can prepare you for that dump!!