The "fear factor" in ATC training / service

[SID East]

Having just posted on the "Obeying instructions on a FIS" board thought I would throw this one into the fire, as it is certainly something that has been on my mind for sometime.

As a UK Mil controller I would be interested to know how other ATC training organisations raise their safety awareness amongst students. My experience in training has very much been (not exclusively) fear of the "blame culture" which as far I can see definitely does exist in ATC at the present time. Incidents such as Milan, Ben Macdui, The Balkans etc are evidence enough.

My question really is should the fear of prosecution, blame, and even jail be part of a productive and rational training programme? Given that this is definitely in the back of a lot of controllers mind every day they go about their business are they really providing the best service?

My comparison in with a EFT pilot crashing and writing off a Mil aircraft on a 1st solo. Several learning points made said pilot goes on to make a successful military pilot on whatever type. The pilot is not subject to a grilling whereby their instructors say something along the lines of "if you were flying a Tri-Star with 300 people on they would have all just died".

Compare that to killing off a track in a first sim to simulate the death of a few hundred people on an airliner. This does not seem to me the most productive way to go about business and certainly does / has put people off the job forcing them to look elsewhere for a career.

To be fair however, it does work- but does it produce the right kind of controller?

PS Merry Xmas

[niknak]

In the not so distant past, SRG started banging on about "duty of care", basically meaning that whatever rules and regulations they may lay down, when putting them into practice, we had to ensure that what we didn't just stick to our responsiblities and leave it at that.
Personally I think they finally recognised that although the rules are there to be implemented, deviation in a given situation to avoid an incident, is acceptable.

I can see that this is eminently sensible, and I, (as the vast majority of other atcos I know), have always done the job to the best of my ability in order to make sure that things go right, not only for me, but for the pilots as well. If we did everything "by the book" the system would eventually come to a grinding halt.

Explaining this in the college environment and getting inexperienced cadets to understand the practical application, whilst they are also being told that they must stick to the rules and procedures to get through the course, would be very difficult to get across.

I would venture that it's something that trainee atco's shouldn't be subjected to until they are actually doing validation training at a unit.

[Canary Boy]

‘Fear Factor’

Having given the topic some thought, my initial reaction is that ATC are not the only occupation where a ‘professional error’ (oversight, lack of thought, inadequate knowledge, etc, etc) could lead to a serious incident, and possibly the loss of life. Examples that spring to mind; doctors, drivers of emergency vehicles and yes, aircrew.

If negligence were proven and shown to be culpable (all that legalese that was discussed at huge length on that famous PPrune thread!) then the ‘guilty’ party would inevitably face a penalty of whatever severity. If the courts have thus found, it must surely be only right that, as our democratic society demands (!), justice follows its course.

That said, if training systems work properly and all of the checks and balances of an efficient supervision regime are in place, only personal cock-ups should lead to an incident or accident.

If it really is in the “back of a lot of controllers minds every day….are they really providing the best service?” then I would suggest that the ethos being promoted by SATCO, supervisors etc is entirely wrongly focussed. Properly trained, confident, controllers will know their craft, their personal limitations and when to yell for the help of a supe!

Well that’s what I think anyway!!!!


:\

[norvenmunky]

Properly trained, confident, controllers will know their craft, their personal limitations and when to yell for the help of a supe!

Trouble is mate, there are quite a few supervisors(mil) out there who would be the last people to yell for... FACT. Whether that applies to our colleagues in civvy land....dunno?

[Canary Boy]

Regrettably true, oh chimp of the north. A problem that will not go away with the dilution of experience suffered in most control rooms.

But it is nice to view the world through the trusty rosy-tinted specs occasionally!!!

:{

[Chilli Monster]

Trouble is mate, there are quite a few supervisors(mil) out there who would be the last people to yell for... FACT. Whether that applies to our colleagues in civvy land....dunno?

What's a supervisor? Most civil units don't operate with half the number of staff on a military watch!

[Canary Boy]

CM

Most civil units aren't busy/complicated enough to need them!!!

(Extracts tongue from cheek, ducks and awaits incoming....)

:ouch:

[Chilli Monster]

I shall remember that the next time I look at my adjacent, non-LARS unit military airfield on radar, with nothing wearing one of their squwks, and the staff of Tower / Ground / Approach / Director / Zone / Talkdown.

That'll be when I've got 4 IFR trainers, 3 IFR inbounds, a few on LARS and all on the same frequency. That'll be handled by one in radar, one in tower, one on a break ready to relieve one of the other two when necessary ;)

Still - at least I don't have to try and co-ordinate with the person (not) sat next to me - makes life a bit easier I suppose :cool:

[norvenmunky]

I shall rememeber that the next time I look at my adjacent, non-LARS unit military airfield on radar, with nothing wearing one of their squwks, and the staff of Tower / Ground / Approach / Director / Zone / Talkdown.

If they are non-LARS why would they have a Zone position?

[Chilli Monster]

Think airspace ;)

[norvenmunky]

Think airspace

Ok I'm thinking Class D, I'm thinking Wiltshire?

[Chilli Monster]

Congratulations - tonights winner of "Guess the unit" :ok:

[norvenmunky]

Congratulations - tonights winner of "Guess the unit"

:D

Back to the original thread, which was......:eek: ...who knows?

[Chilli Monster]

Back to the original thread:

None of my 3 rating courses dealt too heavily on the 'blame' side of things. It was more a case of "If you do it right, and how you were taught, then you're going to be cast iron anyway".

If anything I'd say almost the opposite applies in the civil world to the military world. Rather than "Get it on the tape" the attitude is "Keep it off the tape unless it's appropriate". That's a far better way to work in my opinion - if it's not needed - shut up!

Duty of care is there, and always will be, but providing you work sensibly, rather than constantly trying to cover your backside, then you tend to find the regulator is your friend, not an enemy to be wary of. It's as NikNak says - practical application is the key,with the books as a guide, rather than rigid, inflexible application which will, sooner or later screw you up because you then lose the ability to think 'out of the box'.

[Jerricho]

I think there is a difference between a healthy respect and fear. I know one or two controllers who when they first meet people and are asked "Oh, isn't that really stressful?" and launch into a "Oh yeah, it's stressful but that's what were trained for, you know this one time I had a blah, blah, blah.......". Conversley, some of the best controllers I've worked with know their stuff and aim to provide the best service they can, respect what is going on on the driver's side of things and for the other controllers around them. And have a bloody good time doing it.

[atcea.com]

I'm not certain whether this thread is addressing the fear of making mistakes "on position" or is addressing using the fear factor in ATC training.

The thing controllers - and human beings in general - most fear is loss of self esteem if a mistake is made. Of course, we fear punishments, tragic consequences and the like, but bottom line: we dread making mistakes because they make us look bad. And I'm not talking smacking two together - God forbid - but even the most minor, inconsequential blunders that none of us can avoid. Shame and humiliation are built-in emotions that keep us always trying our hardest and doing out best. Not necessarily a bad thing, right?

Using fear and intimidation in the training process, while not politically correct these days, also has its place. Berating students, harassing them: no. Making them feel really uncomfortable around their own mistakes: priceless! :8

ATC 24/7 (http://atcea.com)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Properly trained, confident, controllers will know their craft, their personal limitations and when to yell for the help of a supe!>>

Last thing I'd EVER do was to call for a Superskiver! Hell.. many of those I've worked under weren't valid for the operational positions!

[Canary Boy]

Last thing I'd EVER do was to call for a Superskiver! Hell.. many of those I've worked under weren't valid for the operational positions!
That'll be a fundamental difference between civ and mil then!

Good point raised about mistakes made during training and those made at the coalface. Errors during training will inevitably get flagged-up by instructors, with the associated feelings noted by ATCEA. The c@ck-ups we make after validation often go un-noticed by all except those that made them (ME).

I LEARNT ABOUT CONTROLLING FROM THAT

Lost a few ZZZs and sweated a bit, but took note and, fortunately didn't kill anybody.

:O

[Jerricho]

'Tis like learning to drive a car. You get your licence, then you really learn how to do it.

[peatair]

SID EAST makes some good points. Unfortunately, ATCOs are, so far as the legal system is concerned, in a similar boat to almost any other professional. Doctors, dentists, even solicitors etc can be sued if through their negligence damage is caused.

To my mind it is not something which should be drilled into trainees as a kind of fear factor. The important thing is to learn the rules and how to apply them properly and then get on with doing what is a very enjoyable job.

At most ATC Units there are also "best practices" which are taught as part of Unit training. These practices have been found to work in most situations and by following them a lot of bother is usually saved. Of course, you have to remain flexible and open to factors which might require an alternative.