GET ME OUT OF HERE

[linus]

Does the FAA hire foreign controllers at all? What about working in Canada? Australia? New Zealand? The Bahamas? Anywhere where it's warm and controllers are appreciated (is there such a place?? ;-) )

[Spoonbill]

Linus old chap, I dont know where you work, (your pprune profile is a bit evasive to say the least http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif), but it sure sounds a terrible place!
There are loads of ATCO's jobs in the UK at the moment. Admittedly, conditions vary from place to place, but you could do a lot worse than here.
I know Nav Canada are recruiting at the moment, you can complete the application form on line at their site. The FAA have several different criteria, depending where you can be employed, but the pay isn't as good as the UK for SOME of the positions.
The Bahamas sounds very attractive, but I think you'd be in a long queue, and just think of having to live somewhere where British and US tourists make up 80% of the population for 9 months a year!
Anyway, Dundee are advertising this week. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

[linus]

Hi Spoonbill! Thank you for your information!
I know the profile is kind a short, but giving too much detail would make it easy for someone from my company to find out who I am (ATC is a SMALL world). I am not so keen on that to happen while I'm looking for an new job. ;-) I can really just reveal this much: I work in Germany (surprised?) and I don't work at Frankfurt tower where they work 25.5 hrs. a week and get good money for it.
Do you know what countries accept foreign training? I think Canada and the US don't, but I think I will try anyhow. I heard New Zealand does accept German training, but after reading the Auckland lunch break story ... ;-)

[Spuds McKenzie]

Hallo linus,

New Zealand has employed Controllers from overseas end of last year. However, you only have a chance if you hold permanent residency (which is easy to get if you happen to have a Kiwi wife, otherwise you have to go through the "normal" process of applying for residency). If they plan to recruit any more foreign Controllers in the near future, I don't know. I suggest you to check out www.airways.co.nz (http://www.airways.co.nz) which is the ATC provider's homepage.
Australia: no chance, as far as I know, they don't even run any courses for Aussie ab initios ( www.airservices.gov.au (http://www.airservices.gov.au) ).

Good luck

Spuds

------------------
"say again?"
"again"

[This message has been edited by Spuds McKenzie (edited 21 April 2001).]

[letMfly]

Hi Linus

Why don't you try Dubai with good old Serco. It certainly is hot and the controllers are very much appreciated (by everbody but Serco management!) http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[PlayersLight77]

Canada would not be the warm place where you are appreciated if you come in the winter and consider the "NavCanada" effect...better find someplace a little more appealing lol

G

[linus]

Thanks everyone for the advice! Every hint could be useful. By the way: What exactly is so bad about NavCanada and Serco? Does anyone know how much they pay in the Arab countries, Canada, US? Rumor has it that Royal Brunei is always trying to hire young Lufthansa pilots for $10,000 a month :-). If they pay controllers the same I'm out of here
:-) How expensive is life down there?
Can someone tell me what it is like to work in Spain? Do they use Spanish in R/T???
Tanks!
Linus

---------------------------------------

"CONFIRM WE ARE CLEARED TO LAND?"

[Fly Through]

Hi Linus,

In the 'sand pit' Serco are paying 165,000 Dirhams p.a. basic which is about £31,500. That's for a procedural unit but don't expect much more at a radar unit. They provide accomodation or an allowance and there's no tax.

Serco as an employer is alright as long as you understand that their profit comes from not paying as much as say NATS in the UK. They're starting to wise up to the controller shortage so tend to keep hold of Atco's as much as possible, that's how I ended up out here. As for licences, you shouldn't have a problem. Lots of vacancies at the moment at Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Al Ain.

Hope that helps,anymore questions, drop me a line.

Rgds Fly Through

[The Crimson Fruitbat]

Linus,

All the countries mentioned are short, its usually a visa problem at most places. However, the British don't seem to acknowledge that they are short or recognise the training of other nations.

A chap at EDDF AACC is trying to court some foreigners over to Germany at the moment. After tax, insurance, housing and living expenses there doesn't seem to be a lot left based on a newly validated salary, it sound suspicious.

Why do you want to leave?

[PlayersLight77]

NavCanada is looking for controllers, no doubt about it. They, like most countries, are quite short on controllers with their controller base reaching retirement age within a couple of years. They are training at a frenzied rate, almost to training capacity, and the pay rates are increasing. Not as high as USA or Britain yet, but they are trying.

However, and there has to be a "but" here, the main problem they have now with controllers is the variable shift length, and shift logic, which is not very logical at all. Shifts run various lengths, at all hours of the day, and makes for a miserable home life and difficulty scheduling your life away from work. Because shifts are so variable, switching shifts with people, which used to be quite easy, is now extremely difficult and causes many to use sick days to get the time off they want. This creates overtime openings, which is great if you want to make extra money, but exaserbates the controller shortage, and causes many to time out in a particular month. In short with the overtime your paycheck will be big (with most going to the government of course) and your homelife will suck. thats the tradeoff. I won't get into management/controller relationships or this reply will go on and on longer than it already has.

G

[linus]

Hi guys! Thanks everyone for the inside information! Seems like the management sucks everywhere. That, Crimson Fruitbat, is one of the reasons why I want to leave: management (Are you thinking about going to Germany???). I think it is very dangerous to have people in the management who sometimes seem to forget that we are not selling Coca-Cola but air traffic safety. They are playing with people's lifes when they put profit above safety. Regarding Frankfurt ACC: they are about 40% short!!!Any more questions?
Linus

[get'em to heaven & back]

someone please close this thread immediately- even i am beginning to think nats is wonderful compared to others........

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[The Crimson Fruitbat]

get'em to heaven...

The one-way exodus from NATS to the very big commonwealth country on the other side of the Atlantic might show it differently ;)

Have many come back? Do may Canucks go East to the UK?

[Tweety]

To all,

The whole world is short. DFS by 25% and the rest of Europe much the same. USA 3-4000 short and OZ,NZ and Canada 10-20% down. dont take what they offer negotiate a higher salary as it is an employees marketplace not an employers as they may have you believe. The sooner you wise up to this then the sooner they IE Serco, Airservices,NATS PPP, FAA NAvcanada and others will have to pay big to get the best. ONly the chinese AKA Hong Kong have done that

TTFN

[The Crimson Fruitbat]

Your stats are probably right Tweety, but for a start you can't get a guernsey for the FAA until you have citizenship, not a resident visa (green card), but passport carrying citizenship which requires at least 3 years of residency.

As for the rest, its a big call to ask an individual to tell a potential employer 'no thanks call me when you can offer...' simply since its a sellers market (ATC skills being 'for sale'). For a start most of the decision makers don't even acknowledge a problem and the unions probably won't cop it either...it'll pi$$ off the local bottom increment labour.

Not a lot of official info comes out of the 'Fragrant Harbour' just rumours from former employees so can't comment on post-PRC Honkers. Got any solid info?

[This message has been edited by The Crimson Fruitbat (edited 03 May 2001).]

[caba]

Hi Linus!

I wonder if we are the only two who start thinking of a career somewhere else. I started training last year, now I almost have all the ratings. But my motivation is at an all time low, especially when thinking about our very capable management!

It´s just unbelievable...

[This message has been edited by caba (edited 17 May 2001).]

[Spuds McKenzie]

caba,

You two might be the only ones who are THINKING about going somewhere else, but there's plenty of ATCO's who've actually MADE the move (me being one of them). It involves naturally a big effort, especially in our field (back to school again, basically).
Concerning ATC management: Don't expect too much, it looks like they're everywhere the same....

------------------
"say again?"
"again"