HUMBERSIDE

[airhumberside]

Anyone got any news or rumours about Humberside.

Malaga flights are being axed next summer
New maintenance facility being built

Any one know any more about possible Cimber Air/SAS flights to Copenhagen

[aeulad]

Unfortunately, the title 'Humberside Happenings' is more like 'Humberside, nothing is happening':{

Humberside had a great portfolio of holiday routes this past summer, and it would seem that with the emergence of DSA on the local scene, it may well be the busiest year HUY ever has. Right back from the mid nineties, HUY has failed to attract any significant new operators, it has seemingly missed the low cost bandwagon, and is set for a life in the shadows of its neighbours LBA and DSA. DSA will handle more passengers in it's firts year of operations, than HUY ever has.

Humberside will keep the Aberdeen and Amsterdam routes, the KLM is always full. Eastern make good money on the ABZ.

Paris, Brussels, Dusseldorf, Esbjerg, Dublin, Belfast, London, Jersey, Edinburgh and Glasgow have all been tried in the past, and most were successful, however, HUY appears to have suffered from unsecure operators, and the HUY part of their operations, such as Gill, EuroDirect and Brymon played very little part in their future strategies or fates.

There is definitely a market for low cost flights from HUY. Before the advent of DSA, an airline could have easily operated something in the 100-150 seat category, successfully to the likes of Alicante, Malaga, Palma, Faro, Barcelona, Prague, Nice, Jersey, Dublin, Belfast, Amsterdam and Paris, with even a potential LGW link. Now however, the market has been even more segmented and anything more than 100 seats would be very ambitious. HUY has handled more pax than Exeter, Bournemouth, Inverness and Norwich for several years now, however, they were picked ahead of HUY for low cost expansion.

Time will tell, but with the axing of holiday flights from Humberside to Malaga, Fuerteventura, Corfu and Paphos in recent times, the future does not look as rosy as it once did.

I am hoping for a miracle, but in the real world, they just don't happen!

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

I do believe that for a few years now Fuerteventura has been announced but never started - same with Varna.

At least Plovdiv starts on next Sunday and we Antalya next year

I think either Flybe or EU Jet would be perfect for HUY. They could Alicante, Malaga etc and also nearer destinations like Dublin. They would be using the Dash 8-Q400 and Fokker 100 which wouln't be too big for the market.

There are rumours of a new airline coming to HUY to compete with Eastern to Aberdeen, possibly Flybe or City Star - anyone know any more?

http://www.finairweb.co.uk/welcome.htm
http://www.phpbber.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=36&mforum=airhumberside

Are Excel replacing Viking to Heraklion next year?

Anyone got any details on this years Lapland flights or the fish flights - airline, times etc. This week there was a Tu-204 of Aviapaualanga on Wednesday's fish flight

[niknak]

Unfortunately I think it's going to be all to late for Humberside's venture into the low cost market.

DSA will shortly be announcing their low cost operators, and if my information is correct, that will include AMS, DUB, ABZ, and EDI.
That may have an impact on Easterns HUY - ABZ and KLMs HUY - AMS route, as I understand that the DSA flights will offer a day return option, something that hasn't happened before.

Sadly, HUY management have always had a very arrogant attitude towards low cost, largely because, I think, that they think DSA would never happen - it seems theyve blown it.

Although the recently announced FlyBe routes from NWI do not offer the day return option, and will have no impact on Eastern's routes, I understand that they plan an NWI - AMS route with interline facilities at AMS.
This will virtually erase KLM from NWI and not before time, and the same could happen elsewhere in the UK.
It appears that KLM couldnt give a toss about the regional - AMS routes or their customers, the sooner they change their attitude or go, the better.

Given the future prospects, one has to ask if MAN PLC, having bought HUY for the political reasons that have served their purposes, will unload it for a token gesture back to the local authority (or Eastern Airways:E ).

[airhumberside]

Thomson Fly will fly from Doncaster to Dublin, Paris CDG and some more destinations

Are Flybe planning NWI-AMS?

[airhumberside]

From a poster on my forums:

The police helicopter wil be using part of the helicopter terminal
Fish flights will go up to 3xweekly

[aeulad]

Fuerteventura and Varna have indeed been announced and then not taken up in the end. I have always doubted Fuerteventura, but was always sure Varna would be a hit, with Bourgas getting twice weekly flights.

Plovdiv was great news, but the flight is twinned with Newcastle, Via NCL out the outbound. Still a weekly shared ski flight is better than nothing. Antalya is a slight help, however there was no news article on the HUY website, and it is only a month long series.

I agree that Flybe. would be the best option for Humberside, something along the lines of:

Aberdeen daily Q400
Edinburgh daily Q400
Glasgow daily Q400
Belfast BHD daily Q400
Dublin daily Q400
London LGW 2xdaily Q400
Jersey 2xweekly Q400
Amsterdam daily Q400
Paris CDG daily Q400
Alicante 146
Malaga 146
Palma 146
Faro 146

Alternatively, EUjet with an F100 could try Dublin, Jersey, Amsterdam, Malaga, Palma, Alicante, Faro, Barcelona and Prague.

I don't think there is anyone planning to compete on the HUY-ABZ run, but if anything, I would expect Flybe.

The Heraklion is in as Viking again, MD83.

I know Astraeus operate a lot of one off Santa and day trip flights from HUY, mainly with MAN based 737-700s.

Maybe DSA is getting Flybe.?

Both the ABZ and AMS options from HUY offer day returns, they always have done!

I do not believe that even with Flybe on the NWI-AMS or even HUY-AMS routes, that KLM would suffer too badly. They have a very loyal and trusting customer base, and take a look at the likes of Jet2 at LBA or Easyjet at BRS, KLM are still operating profitably, even with the intervening of low cost carriers on the LBA and BRS-AMS routes respectively. KLM provide excellent connections through AMS, and have shown more commitment to the UK regional market than most.

regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

Anyone know why todays Monarch Lapland flight was cancelled

[Oshkosh George]

KLMs connecting flights to AMS are virtually free if booking through flights long haul,so I think they would continue.

I also think if HUY was sold off,it could develop into a thorn in the others' sides,like Prestwick. I think BAA thought it would die when they sold it. Now eating into Glasgow's traffic big time.

[DC10FAN]

Most passengers on the KLM HUY-AMS flights are connecting at Schiphol onto other KLM services hence even if another operator say Flybe started competing flights then KLM services will still survive. Who could Flybe/another interline with at Schiphol? Hence all their passengers would be using it solely as a point to point service. KLM are not really interested in this type of passenger; if you want to do a day return the minimum fare is £358!! You can get a connecting flight for only another £20-30 into Europe.

[Nakata77]

I think HUY will only be as good as the region it serves, and the catchment, although large is soaked up by all the other majors. The population is less desirable for LCC in terms of the demographics. I'm sure it could reach a through-put of between 750 and 1 million pax annually but as for the routes, they will be overspill from DSA etc. There is no scope for inbound tourism...

[airhumberside]

What about charters for Lincoln Christmas Market?

[ATNotts]

Why charters for the Lincoln Christmas Market?

Just about every town and city accross Germany, and I believe many other countries has a Christmas Market. Good ones, such as Lincoln's are a novelty in UK.

Why should anyone from "Euroland" fly to the UK, having to change currency in the process, just to visit something that they can go to in a town or city much closer to them.

We'll have to offer something a bit more unique than that to get our European cousins to come here.

[circseam]

Market Cleethorpes as the UK's premier east coast resort and they'll becomming in their planeloads..........NOT!


HUY has missed the boat for the LC's, the market for such routes has been discussed on this site many times, there just isnt the demand to fill a 737 / A319 on scheduled routes, the airport will just become an even more of backwater regional airport than it is now with the opening of Donny International.

Eastern will probably remain at HUY as a base, the few GA a/c that are based their and the helicopter operation servicing the Humber estuary gas rigs but as for the AMS flight and the charters, I just cant see them remaining at HUY.

Whats more important is the fact that it will always be my favourite regional airport but I'm just a realist whom feels that HUY has missed its chance.

Circseam

[aeulad]

If KLM can fill their flights, every day of the week, and make money from them, why would they move them down the road to DSA??? Especially if the hinted at DSA-Amsterdam low cost operation comes into action???

Regards

Mike

[682ft AMSL]

Because they might be able to fill them more easily, or at higher yields than they are able to do at HUY. If they can't, I rather suspect they won't bother. Worth remembering though that KLM UK seemed to have no trouble putting bums on seats at both SZD and EMA which is relevant for 2 reasons. Firstly, full aircraft are no gurantee of longevity. Secondly, DSA is arguably in the centre of the SZD, HUY and EMA catchment areas and KLM might think a higher capacity operation from Doncaster might better serve that part of the world than 3 a day from HUY.

682

[aeulad]

What a load of tosh:rolleyes:

Regards

Mike

[Flightrider]

I would not have thought that a 146 (particularly a 146-300, on which the seat/mile costs are markedly better than the -200) would stand a remote chance of hacking HUY-ALC / AGP / PMI / FAO with anything like a full payload. It is a very short-haul aircraft would struggle like hell to manage a 1200nm sector. Quite apart from anything else, it would take all day to fly one rotation at the speed at which those things cruise.

[circseam]

Mike

My point concerning the AMS operation is the fact that Donny will have a bigger catchment area for pax thus allowing bigger equipment to service the route.

As for the current route from HUY, is it full everyday?? The old Air Uk when they based a F.27 overnight at HUY never was full, in fact 40-50% full


Maybe Tosh to you but everyone like yourself is entitled to an opinion however bizarre!

[airhumberside]

Fish flights are to go daily

[Jet2LBA]

Whilst I can see the reasoning that KL would have a larger catchment area at DSA, the point is the services into HUY are doing great so why fix what ain't broke?

Regarding the old Air UK F27 loads on HUY-AMS, those figures don't really mean anything today. A couple of years before then the service routed LBA-HUY-AMS, thrice daily with F27's. Now LBA has 5 non-stops each day with 733's and F100's from LS/KL and HUY has 3 F70's each day. The markets have changed beyond recognition as air travel has become more affordable over the past 20 years. Whilst I can't vouch that every single seat on every flight is taken, people I know who have flown on HUY-AMS have always said that their flight was completely full, giving the general impression that it is a consistantly good performer.

On the LCC side of things, it does look as though they may have missed a golden opportunity but I still believe that a carrier such as Flybe has the right sized equipment to offer a competitive and successful operation from HUY. Just because DSA will be open for business doesn't mean that the people of the East Riding of Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire will want to use it in preference to HUY if they had the choice.

A little further down the line, Eastern Airways will be phasing out its J32/J41 in a couple of years time and is supposedly looking to replace them with aircraft in the 50-seat range. Given that they may be tempted to reduce their high fares a little to put more bums on seats and that their new aircraft will be more comfortable over longer legs, they may be tempted to start new services from HUY if another carrier doesn't step in. Perhaps EDI/GLA, CDG or DUS?

[airhumberside]

Eastern previously tried HUY-GLA in their early days and HUY-EDI in 2002 - Maybe EDI wwould work again

CDG, I feel it would have to be in association with Air France to get feed

DUS was tried about 15 years ago I think - great loads in summer but fell off in winter. Dont think this one would work again

Again - Flybe would be perfect

[wawkrk]

Passenger numbers on all routes increased when the F50 got the bullet.
KLM is in a completely different market to the locos.
Flight connections through Amsterdam in any case are often cheaper than a loco Amsterdam return.
Check out the fares on the KLM uk booking site.
LBA Madrid £56 return. Warsaw £69. Barcelona also a few peanuts,I assume HUY is the same.
These fares have been around all through the year.
The flights always seem to be quite full at LBA and I believe HUY is the same. Most of the UK flights are F70/100 including NCL.
Why would they want to use bigger aircraft from an unknown airport like DSA? OH, of course! the big runway!!!!

[DC10FAN]

I flew on the HUY-CDG route when operated by Gill Air as an AF franchise. Initially, the a/c routed MME-HUY-CDG and the loads weren't great.(@25 on ATR72) The MME leg was dropped and HUY-CDG had @15pax on ATR42. Connections were possible at CDG but flight time was an issue; 1h45mins as opposed to 45mins on F100 to AMS.

[onion]

Hey, can't you lot leave huy alone. I don't think they will lose either the ams or the abz in the next 5 years. There are two main reasons for this.

1. The oil and gaz workers use the abz
2. The amount of shipping hat goes through the Humber means that there is always a turn over of foreigners want to travel back home through ams

The second point is also relevent for the ams flights out of mme. So dsa i don't think will effect either routes. Another point to look at is the fact that the whole of the humberside catchment area is on the up, this can be seen in the regeneration of Lincoln and the increase in popularity of the university there.

[niknak]

I don't think that HUY will lose the AMS or ABz services, but equally its very unlikely that they'll get any other schedule services in the future.

Take a look at the real world everyone - HUY simply doesn't have the catchment area to service any new scheduled routes, and on a purely commercial basis, DSA will snaffle up anything that's to be had.
(The "regeneration" of the Lincoln area will only benefit DSA, not HUY).

I hope that they hang on to what they've got in the IT charter market, but the future isn't exactly looking good for them.

Equally, it's unlikely that Eastern will even consider HUY as part of their future plans, (apart from the ABZ route - which they have a monopoly and no possibility of competition on), and as the airline grows, I wouldn't be suprised if they move their base out of HUY to either DSA or NWI.

Unfortunately the HUY management have blown it as far as low cost routes are concerned - they had the opportunity to make it happen, but didn't do a thing, and all that sort of stuff will go to DSA.

It was totally predictable from the outset, but, according to people on the inside at MAN, it seems that MAN PLC, having bought and used HUY at a minimum price, are ready to unload HUY in early 2005 now that they have no further use for it.

[garethjk22]

Hi.
OK, I am not going to get involved with the debate regarding KLC moving from HUY to DSA.

However, with regard to one point raise ... the "why fix what aint broke" argument. Well, it wasn't broke in a market where DSA did not exist. Now, this could apply to any airport ... but KLC, or anyone else will want to protect their market share ... so there is the argument for potentially moving any operation ... is DSA (or any other airport) going to damage my market and dilute my yield? If so, if I move the operation there, and still serve the existing market ... should I do that and protect my market and business, or stay put and let someone else come in and destroy what I have spent years building and effectively cut my catchment area to a very small area indeed?

GJK22

[circseam]

NikNak - Well said

Onion - I dont think anyone on here wants to see the demise of HUY but as NikNak has said the management over the years (especially when owned by the various councils) have had their chances to atttract operators, including low cost airlines. The introduction of flights from Doncaster IS going to be felt by HUY, the existing scheduled flights may stay but I just dont see the type of routes that are being proposed from Donny being ever operated from HUY.


Air Humberside - The DUS flights were operated by Brown Air (Became Capital AL) , LBA - HUY - DUS using a Gulfstream I then operated by an SD.330.

[Nakata77]

... there is always room for domestic airline expansion in the UK because the train & bus links are a complete disaster.

I reckon HUY-domestic centres would definately work especially given all the heavy industry located around the area.

Its only a matter of time.

I heard 'Jump Airlines' (yeah i know) are considering HUY.

Jump are proposed to start in 2008 wih 146's - nothin like givin ya competition a head start. ummm

[aeulad]

A lot of mixed opinions about HUY.

IF Jump got off the ground, I would think that the 146 is too big for domestic markets out of HUY. With the possible exception of Belfast, London Gatwick and Jersey.

The HUY-Dusseldorf flights were operated by Skyrover with an SD330. Dusseldorf would be a desirable addition for the future, Air Berlin would be good for the route with an F100 on say a Monday, Friday and Sunday.

KLM WILL NOT leave Humberside, due to the lack of competition on the route, yield is relatively high.

HUY has proven in the past that it DOES have a large enough catchment area, for example, there were over 30 IT flights this summer/week, more than MME, EXT, BOH and NWI. HUY had for years had a pax throughput higher than most of these, with the exception of MME. DSA will dilute the market further, but there will still be a considerable market there. The majority of HUY's pax come from the Yorkshire Coast, Hull, Cleethorpes/Grimsby, Lincoln and S....horpe, and so for them, HUY will still involve less travelling time than DSA.

In terms of Eastern expanding at HUY, I cannot see this happening, high cost business routes are not what HUY needs, although a HUY-BRU on a Jetstream would work.

Gill Airways' CDG route WAS performing well, for a new route, it was the financial difficulties that Gill got into, that sealed the fate for any non-NCL based a/c.

Again, the theme seams to rest with Flybe. being the most appropriate operator for expansion at HUY, they have the perfect a/c in terms of size for regional and domestic routes to the likes of Dublin, Belfast, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, London LGW, Jersey, Southampton, Paris CDG and Amsterdam. I am not sure if the 146 would have probems reaching the sunspots like Alicante, Malaga and Palma, but with fleet replacement on the cards in the next few years, a 737 or 319 could handle these easily. One based 737/319 doing something like a 4/3 AGP/FAO split in the morning and a 4/3 ALC/PMI split in the afternoon would work. The key is not to overkill. It is no good if someone barges in with A320s or large 737s, the market is not big enough.

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

Can anyone tell me any more about Jump Airlines

[airhumberside]

Police Helicopter should arrive in May

[airhumberside]

Looking on Jump's website there is no mention of HUY. Interestingly the Isle of Wight and Swansea are mentioned

Anyone know when the maintenance hanger will open and what airlines will be using it

[JENKINS]

Hangar will open soon after completion - this will be weather related. First two aircraft envisaged to be the RJ70 and RJ85 due at Eastern.

[airhumberside]

What RJ70 and RJ85 for Eastern?

[Tandemrotor]

What RJ70 and RJ85 for Eastern?

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

RJ85 and RJ70 for Eastern, what?

[Tandemrotor]

And for Eastern, what RJ70/RJ85

[airhumberside]

Passenger numbers up 2.5% to 539,961 in 2004

[loveJet]

Avro RJ's for Eastern! who knows more...

[Charley]

Eastern has RJ's on the cards? What's the story here? Bag open, cat out?

Anyone heard anything about any RJ operators giving up their fleet, or do BAe have some undelivered white-tails in a shed somewhere?

All very curious. :)

[juan who nose?]

Strange, I'd heard it was 737-700s not RJs.......;)

[airhumberside]

More details of the maintenance base from the Grimsby Telegraph local newspaper
____________________________________________________

Humberside Airport is turning on full thrust as a major new aircraft maintenance base - creating around 200 top engineering jobs.

A £1-million hangar is being built to repair and service fleets of modern jets from some of the world's leading airlines. The move is a huge economic boost for the South Bank because most of the posts will be in the highly-paid quality engineering and air electronics sector - the first of its type for this region.

The project is a joint venture between North Links Aviation at the airport and Hull company Wings Aerospace, which specialises in maintenance work.

The eventual plan is to build three large hangars, the first of which is now in the final stage of construction.

It will be able to handle the shorthaul Boeing 737, the larger Boeing 757s and some varieties of the Airbus. More than 60 jobs will be generated in the initial phase, with at least 100 more expected to be added during the next two years.

The planes will be flown directly into Humberside from airports at home and abroad for engine overhaul and respraying before returning in almost mint condition.

David Francis, managing director of Wings Aerospace, said the planned launch was in early May.

He said: "Humberside is an excellent base for our operation because it is less congested and a great deal cheaper than southern airports like Stansted or Gatwick.

"And it is rarely closed through fog or other weather problems."

With RAF bases at Waddington and Scampton and the British Aerospace factory at Brough, Wings Aerospace is close to a good source of engineering recruits.

The business, potentially worth millions of pounds a year, is a timely boost for Humberside, which is in danger of being overshadowed by its rapidly developing rival, the Robin Hood Airport, soon to open at Finningley.

Last month Irish budget airline Ryanair announced it was launching a service from it to Dublin.

Rob Goldsmith, managing director of Humberside Airport, said: "The development will enhance the diversity of activities taking place on the site and create a number of highly skilled jobs.

"We are pleased to be playing our part in this economic regeneration of the region

Humberside Airport is turning on full thrust as a major new aircraft maintenance base - creating around 200 top engineering jobs. ]

[Capt BK]

Work on that first hanger has slowed significantly. Rumour going around at the moment is that someone isn't paying their bills and hence construction has almost stopped. I've seen about 5 or 6 panels bolted onto the frame in about a week!

Hopefully it will be sorted soon.

CBK

[lakeside84]

Lets face it - HUY has missed its chance.
dont expect to see any new stuff there.
with the management team they have there at the moment, they dont stand a chance!
favourite airport for a few people maybe... but DSA, LBA, MME are already an alternative for HUY's mini catchment.
HUY - RIP

[Punditgreen]

Fascinating!

Registered 25 Feb 05, first post 25 Feb 05 just to knock one Unit on a forum dedicated to that Unit. Methinks someone should be 24.5nm further West, if they are not already.:rolleyes: :yuk:

[airhumberside]

dont expect to see any new stuff there.
Explain why there is a new Antalya flights on Sundays in August this year

[LBA]

I think what they meant more were the amount of scheduled routes. Two different routes is terrible, no matter how many charters happen. I think HUY will always exist with a number of charter flights (Better range than LBA!), but as far as scheduled flights go, I dont expect much if anything to happen.

Surely if the likes of Ryanair were to start a DUB flight and Flybe start a BHD flight, they would have done it by now.

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

It has just been published today, Ryan Air will operate from 10 new airports, HUMBERSIDE WILL NOT BE ONE OF THEM !

[airhumberside]

HUMBERSIDE WILL NOT BE ONE OF THEM !
Think we guessed that when they announced DSA-DUB

Did some one officially say that today and if so is there a link?

Thanks

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

A spokewoman from Humberside Airport, according to this evenings Scunthorpe Telegraph. The article stated that although Ryan Air has not name the 10 new airports, Humberside has been told it WILL NOT be one of them.

[airhumberside]

Thanks

For the article click here (http://www.thisisscunthorpe.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=152576&command=displayContent&sourceNode=152559&contentPK=11901460&moduleName=InternalSearch&keyword=Humberside%20Airport&formname=sidebarsearch)

She said: "They have not given us any reason why."
Because they have chosen DSA. If they cant work that out what hope do we have of getting any new routes never mind keeping present ones

Also anyone know who is doing this ([URL=http://www.thisisscunthorpe.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=152576&command=displayContent&sourceNode=152559&contentPK=11885319&moduleName=InternalSearch&keyword=Humberside%20Airport&formname=sidebarsearch) Flight and why is it going to CWL, not SWS?

[GrahamK]

Could be Scot Airways, they do quite a few fitba charters

[airhumberside]

According to Cardiff Airport website ts Eastern

Looking in the Airtours winter 2005/06 holiday brochure it lists the return of Malaga from February to April with BY on a Sunday afternoon

[lakeside84]

airhumberside... HUY thinks its worth shouting about getting 4 weeks worth of AYT flights... it really should wake up and smell the overpriced coffee!!

DSA is the future - I know some of the team that work there and the future is bright!

The same cannot be said for HUY... and you must be a little nervous airhumberside, or why would you be visiting this DSA thread so frequently?!

:)

[GrahamK]

This is a Humberside thread, not a DSA thread :}

[airhumberside]

lakeside84

I am sure in the long term HUY will recover and grow again but yes I am worried about HUY's short term future

[7006 fan]

Am pretty new to all this and apologies but don't know how to reply to individual messages yet, but will no doubt learn as time goes by!.
I find the DSA-HUY arguments interesting. The lo-cost thing seems to be everyone's hang-up, the local paper even carried a letter recently wanting to know why they could not fly lo-cost from Humberside to Zurich or somewhere. Bit like asking GNER why they do not run a train from Kings Cross to Southampton at 2.30 in the morning '..coz I wanna go home...'. AND if they don't, why not!!!!!
Lo-cost is a strange being. If the 'main' carriers are to be believed, lo-cost will go bang, as major airlines always stated they could not run a route for less than £x, now L/C offer flights at £x less 90% if you are the 10th lucky caller or whatever. Try getting a lo-cost to any Med hot spot in July for a tenner return!!!!!
I think we are all aware and savvy to the Aldi/Netto theory '...stack it high, sell it low and as close to the sell by date as possible...'
OK, I may be a snob but I fly scheduled all the time (it costs me the earth), why? leg room, comfort, generally sociable courteous people on the flight and not a toga wearing beer swilling Hen/Stag party person in sight. Just watching 'Airline' was enough for me!!! If ever there was an anti-advert that must be it, but rivetting television no doubt.
That has got that off my chest...:D
Long may Humberside be able to offer that 'personal service' so lacking in these big 'warehouse airports' packed full of people like a Saturday shopping market. I flew into Gatwick recently, a place have not flown from in a few years, used to be really nice at 15/20m ppa but now!!!
I was waiting 45/50 minutes for a taxi, and felt -whilst in the concourse- that I was in a cattle truck!
Given all this I need Business Class shame I have to fly once/twice a month the bank balance would squeal all the way to the poor house

Cheers all
:ok

[Flightrider]

Humberside-Malaga apparently back on sale as of tomorrow.

[aeulad]

Where did this come from??

Excellent news if so!:ok:

Still no news on any HUY developments.

I am fulfilling a childhood dream later this month, I will be operating as the senior on a flight out of Humberside to Funchal. Since I was 4 I flew several times a year on the HUY-AMS route. It has always been my local airport. I have been flying for over 3 years now, and although it is a little sad, I can't wait!!!:O

I am just hoping that Flybe. decide on HUY over DSA, however, I fear the glare of EDI/GLA/BHD and regional France from DSA may pip HUY at the post :{

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

Fantastic news - press release on airport website under news. Is this the AEU aircraft based at LBA?

[airhumberside]

According to this thread Air Southwest will replace VLM to Jersey

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163043

[Flightrider]

Looks like AEU 737-700 positioning across from Manchester to do the job every Sunday.

[airhumberside]

Thanks. Was hoping for the LBA A319, but a B737-700 is better than nothing

Scunthorpe Telegraph rerports that sales for flights this summer are 'very strong'

Dont know how much truth there is in it but (again in the Scunthorpe Telegraph,
And the flight programme at the Kirmington airport has been boosted with the addition of a new route to the Costa del Sol this summer. Managing director Rob Goldsmith is confident more flights will be added soon, despite being in competition with Robin Hood Doncaster Sheffield Airport, on the border of North Lincolnshire, which opens next month.

[7006 fan]

Noticed the 'big gray hangar' is turning into 'the big green one'!!!
Also what about the Red Arrows today, scares me when they do that back to back thing at 'n' feet apart!! plus the ability to keep in a straight line whilst banking and climbing I just take my hat off to them!!!

[aeulad]

Update on summer 2005 charters:

PALMA THO 738
PALMA JKK 321
PALMA JKK M83
PALMA IWD 320
PALMA THO 738
MAHON FUA 738
IBIZA IWD 320
IBIZA THO 738
TENERIFE LTE 320
TENERIFE AEA 738
LAS PALMAS IWD 320
ARRECIFE AEA 738
ALICANTE AEA 738
MALAGA AEU 73G
FARO FCA 752
BOURGAS BGH 320
BOURGAS BGH 320
LARNACA HCY 738
HERAKLION ECA 738
BODRUM PGT 738
DALAMAN PGT 738
DALAMAN PGT 738
DALAMAN PGT 738
ANTALYA XQ 738
JERSEY WOW DH3
JERSEY WOW DH3

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

From the Airport Website

For this summer

New ECA Sunday flights to Larnaca for Olympic Holidays
Thomson upgrade Palma to B767
Airtours upgrade Palma A320

Where is the B767 based at, DSA is meant to be a B737 so has DSA been upgraded?

Is the Airtours A321 a MyTravel one or one from another airline?

[7006 fan]

They are due to start work on the new heliport next week, plus an enlargement of the car parks, the big hangar is getting on well and the terminal is getting a lick of paint. Best selling UK airport for some of the tour op's.
Who says Humberside is 'Finningleyed'.!?!!!!:ok:

[airhumberside]

Who says Humberside is 'Finningleyed'.!?!!!!
I dont think anyone imagined HUY would do as well as it is doing this summer with DSA opening

[aeulad]

Come on HUY!!!

Lets hope the scheduled department gets some more attention soon! Charter is doing very well, however there will still be fewer charter flights this year compared to last year. Is the BY 767 for the full season?

Regards

Mike

[lakeside84]

i dont understand why everyone is getting excited about huy getting their malaga flight back! how on earth they lost it in the first place is beyond me.

please lets not be too naive about comments from airport md rob goldsmith... scroll up for the paste from scunthorpe telegraph).

OK, put yourself in his, or his consumer communication managers, shoes... if you were them, and you were struggling to keep the airport open, and you knew that you were the laughing stock of the travel industry (and they ARE), if you knew that you had absolutely no chance of getting any new business... would you really issue a press release saying that?!

A press release like the one above is an attempt to gain free advertising, so it needs to be positive... I know for a fact that yes, they have got Malaga back (again, well done!), and I understand that they intend on launching new routes like Monastir for S06, these are small announcements compared to the ones being made not so far away.

BTW - any new routes that go on sale for HUY are questionable... It will go on sale, the travel agents will be paid to convince you all to book it, bribed even, but, like all the Fuerteventura's and Paphos' that have gone on sale before, you can bet your bottom dollar that likewise, MIR will end up being cancelled...

HUY is old, its tacky, its not what people want. That's my opinion.

[aeulad]

lakeside, you appear not to have the slightest idea about the subject you proffess to know all about:yuk:

Regards

Mike

[Capt BK]

lakeside84,

I'm interested why you say humberside is not what people want. Maybe were different up north but nearly everyone I talk to loves flying from humberside because it's less hassle, easy parking, no trouble checking in, straight out to the aircraft, very rare to be delayed. They just wish humberside had more destinations. Not everyone wants the major airport metropolis experience like Heathrow or Manchester - isn't this also the thinking at Boeing?

I for one hope HUY keeps going, especially since it's providing a small living for me at the mo ;)

CBK

[lakeside84]

aeulad - trust me, i know lots.

A bit more than a number one might do I suspect!

Capt BK - I know what you mean, I do hear a lot about how the local people surrounding HUY do love their little airport. But from an airline or tour operators point of view - they look for a big, well populated catchment.

We use data to look where to place our aircraft, and I dont think that the demographics surrounding HUY are inspiring.

I have spent quite a bit of time at HUY, but I just dont see it going anywhere... I dont think it will NEVER get low cost, and now really is make or break time.

I\'m not one of those people that comes on to Airport specific forums and purposely slags off that airport, but I just wanted to try and make you guys see thru the media/pr blurb that HUY are getting better at churning out. If you cut out all the blurb (like how they always mention their new food village - is 3 years old still new?!), and when you start to look at the facts... They have got a Malaga flight... they carry less than half a million passengers... they have no retail (away from standard tax free) and limited catering opportunity (limited to cold food airside I believe)... they are best concentrating on their new aircraft hanger - which will indeed be good for the locals to see different aircraft landing at HUY. It\'s just a great shame they prob wont be carrying any pax.

[aeulad]

Lakeside, your previous post shows how little you do know.

Cabin crew I may be, but I am Humberside born and bred, and if you take a look at my other posts, you will see I am no bulls****er!

For a start, HUY is currently handling approx 530,000 pax a year, not sure what you class as half a million, but it does'nt take a einstein to work that one out.

No-one is saying HUY is going to be the next Manchester, and yes, there is significant competition from nearby DSA, but the airport is popular with the local population and the range of charter destinations is akin to that of LBA and MME. The scheduled side leaves a little to be desired, but the airport is working to change that. Flybe will open either DSA or HUY, and with LBA likely to get BE French flights over DSA, HUY is looking like the favorite.

MIR should work from HUY, it does from just about every other regional airport. MIR is not an expensive destination, and so should suit the HUY demographic well. PFO did not work because the majority of resorts that feed PFO are on the higher price side. FUE is a mystery, announced for the last 2 years and has never operated, however you appear to think that HUY is uniqe is losing planned flights, which it most certainly is not.

HUY does not NEED more retail outlets. One of the beautys of flying from HUY is the shorter check-in times, by the time pax have checked in, had a coffee and bought a paper, it's almost time to board.

I agree that now is a critical time for HUY, but the little airport has a lot of supporters, and you coming on here raining on our parade is uncalled for:(

Regards

Mike

[lakeside84]

aeulad, take ur comments on board, so to speak, and no offence, but how can you, as cabin crew, start correcting me on figures from HUY. The last update I had on HUY was that they were just under half a million.

I stand corrected, they are over half a million - well done huy, yet again they actually amaze and excite me with their poxy new destinations!!!

do you honestly think flybe will come into HUY?? I can certainly tell you one thing - they arent even interested! Of course an airline will make comments about different airports in different publications... it helps them get a better deal from the airport when they start talking commercial deals.

so if you are putting all your eggs in the flybe basket, aeulad (and probably hoping to apply for a job with them), then I wud start thinking of a plan b.

Flybe are talking to DSA - indepth, and they will expand at LBA.
Sorry!

[aeulad]

I was correcting you on pax figures supplied to the general public by the CAA, easy as.

I have it from Flybe itself that it is currently evaluating opening DSA OR HUY. They have yet to come to a decision.

For your information, I used to work for Flybe, and no, I am not looking at moving back to Humberside. I am more than happy at Astraeus thankyou.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Regards

Mike

[7006 fan]

I drove to Robin Hood Airport the other day, what a laugh I had as the access. I feel sorry for the people who live in the little village down the way. Whoever thought of operating a major airport with only country-lane access :}
Can't wait until all these lo-cost passengers clog the road up, and what did Peel say at the P.E. there is no need for a road. And now ...oh we need a link of the M18, are they getting one, doubt it.
Airport's are there to make money, if an Airport can make more from landing empty planes for maintenance and parking them up, than pleading on bended knees with 'incentive' payments to lo-cost operators, so be it. Mr Ryanair pays b all for landing and is never on the ground long enough for parking.
Having watched Airline (is that the Easyjet one?). Imagine being a business traveller putting up with that going on at the check-in desk next to you.
Scheduled is an interesting one and 05/06 will be to watch at HUY.
DSA has one big thing going for it...a huge great business park next to it that Peel will develop whether the airport works or not.

;)

[airhumberside]

MIR - this has only just been launched from DSA, I will only believe thsis one when I see it, though if it does go ahead would be great news

The airport is small and friendly and has a lot of loyal passengers from the local area. It serves its purpose

Flybe will have to consider if they want to fly from DSA on higher frequencies than HUY to domestic destinations or from HUY where there could be potential for some Spain flights as well as the standard domestic routes

[lakeside84]

7006 fan, I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from... Are you a supporter of HUY or a supporter of DSA? Lets face it, it's gotta be one of the other hasnt it!!

This thread is for HUY, so to keep 'them' happy, we better just talk about HUY on here. We'll move on to the DSA section to talk about road access to DSA... (It's not that bad actually - I'll convince you!).

There's no reason why we cant talk about how the likes of DSA & LBA will effect HUY though is there?!

I'm not sure whether you are supportive of the new hanger at HUY or not? You talked about Peel developing a business park onsite at DSA, in case the airport doesnt work out...

...but I think we all know, that's what Manchester Airport Group has decided to do at HUY. I think that it's failing as a commercial airport, no fault of it's own, just a very unpopulated catchment; so the bosses/council leaders at MAG are presumably giving HUY one last chance with this maintenance facility.

I am sure it will work well at HUY, but to what level? The majority of airlines are signed up to an all stations contract with engineering companies like KLM Engineering (who do the engineering for, amongst others, Thomsonfly) & FLS (who do the engineering for MYT) etc etc... So surely airlines would only put a poorly aircraft into HUY on an ad hoc basis.

The location of HUY has to be questioned in all of this. It seems to come back to location location location every time. HUY has a huge amount of land, which was set to be developed into a Business Park. I think that fell on it's ar*e. I think that the airport itself suffers due to location. Without sounding negative, the engineering maintenance facility seems the best option for HUY to go with - it certainly has uncongested skies for all these 'planes' to land.

Best of luck with turning the Airport around HUY... Is it about time we all started realising that pax flights arent going to be the future for HUY - and lets concentrate on what value the maintenance facilty will bring to the region.

[aeulad]

How is HUY failing as a commercial airport? It has seen year on year growth since charter flights were introduced in the early 90s. I see from the DSA thread that you are pro DSA, that's fine, and I don't doubt that DSA will be very successful, but you seem to be disillusioned about HUY. WHY does HUY have to attract a lo-co, and why MUST it have rapid growth. It is growing steadily, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Regards

Mike

[lakeside84]

Hi Mike,

Allegedly, internally, MAG is desperate for HUY to get low cost. Subsequently, I think that HUY is targeted to deliver what the group wants it to get. More often these days, an airport is measured on pax, and on destinations. I think that HUY struggles to increase destinations. Low cost can provide an increase in both, literally overnight.

Yes, I am pro DSA, just as I am pro LBA, MME & BHX. These airports all have a strong future.

It makes me smile to think that HUY has been up and running for 20(?) years, and carries (now correctly) just over half a million passengers. DSA will have carried 1.3 million pax by April 2006 (and that's before flybe announce!).

I really wish I could convince you that I'm not talking cr*p, I DO know the score. HUY is, (allegedly) internally, bricking itself... and I'm honestly not sure where they can go next.

If KLM do pull HUY (not that I think they will), but if they DO (and that could be something as simple as KLM deciding to reduce at regionals generally.... If that happened at HUY - I dont see how they could justify opening purely for charter! Some days of the week, even in the summer, there are no charter flights (wednesdays I think) - how sad if they had to start laying off staff, etc. Has anyone thought about the complications of this?

And then think about the winter... Its common knowledge that the KLM & Eastern business keeps HUY going during the winter season.

Just a few things to talk about.

PS: Will PM you re Astreaus.

[7006 fan]

Just to put the record staight. I am pro HUY. The Airport is NOT 'bricking itself', it is NOT 'Lo-cost or die', it is NOT losing charter but GAINING steady business. The hangar is a PRIVATE development NOT HUY. The Business Park fell flat simply because the developer 'lost interest' -but watch this space!!!
Would HUY be about to fall flat on its face if it were:

1/ Building a new heliport (an HUY project)
2/ Enlarged the International Arrivals Hall by 100%
3/ Increased the baggage belt capacity
4/ Refurbished the International Departures Hall
5/ Be increasing car park capacity

Historically (in the last 2 years)

1/ Built a new biz-jet apron (3,000sqm)
2/ Arranged for the refurb and increase in the catering facilities
3/ Allowed the DF shop to enlarge capacity
4/ Renewed and revamped the directional signs, including a big illuminated one atop the terminal
5/ Redecorated the exterior of the terminal and resurfaced a number of roads
6/ Built a 4th car park

NOT the actions of a dying business, is it?! :ok:

as for MIR and it falling flat and being pulled. Why? Any route can be tried and pulled, it will be interesting to see how many DSA routes still exist in a year (the two opposing DUB services look the first to create blood on the carpet).

Cheers and happy flying, from wherever it may be :D

[airhumberside]

It makes me smile to think that HUY has been up and running for 20(?) years, and carries (now correctly) just over half a million passengers. DSA will have carried 1.3 million pax by April 2006 (and that's before flybe announce!).
Flybe havent decided yet apparently so dont get too condfident

Every day of the week sees charters in summer, though Wednesday only has one I think (Helios to Larnaca). In winter there are charters every day except Wednesday

I heard Manchester Airport Developments(MAD) where now in ncharge of the business park. MAD are Manchester Airports property arm

[Leodis]

There is a lot of hype and hysteria about how DSA will affect the region as a whole. Is the new DSA airport going to pull passengers away from HUY, LBA, NEMA and MAN? Well probably at first, but the future of all the airports are based on market forces, or in a nut shell where the passengers want to fly from. I have spoken about this in great lengh on the LBA thread. You need to take a look at the population densities around each airport and add variables then you can start to determine what the probable outcome will be.

How many people live within a 20 minute drive?

This figure will affect its scheduled traffic, a businessman doesn't want a 45 minute drive at 5 in the morning to catch a flight to London or Glasgow. LBA is probably better placed at sustaining growth is this area than say NEMA because of is locality to the cities of Leeds and Bradord. I would expect that long term DSA will have similar scheduled services to NEMA because of its proximity to Sheffield. HUY can probably expect to attract additional domestic services within the lo cost sector with its proximity to Hull.

Is there a proven passenger service?

HUY, LBA, NEMA and MAN all have proved that scheduled services can be operated. LBA and NEMA are better placed to attract additional scheduled services than HUY or DSA. HUY can probably continue to attract a strong charter presance because people want to fly from their local airport. DSA is likely to attract additional lo cost services but because none of the routes that are to be served have been tried before, some may well fail. Thomsonfly will already be aware of where the people of South Yorkshire choose to fly to, through passenger bookings from the region who currently fly from other airports will its sister company.
So Thomsonfly will already be well placed to serve the DSA catchment area.

What are the factors of choosing your departure airport?

A large amount of people don't really care where they fly from as long as its cheap. Sizable amounts of people travel from Scotland to travel from NCL because its cheaper. Large amounts of people in Yorkshire travel to Manchester because they don't have an option from any Yorkshire departure point. Some people only want to fly from their local airport whatever the cost.

Summary

I know there are many more aspects that can be included as a variable but these have just been a small sample. When Humberside extended its runway, LBA thought it was doomed. When LBA gained its 24 hour status, this alone played a large part in LBA increasing its charter operation from around 15-20 flights per week to around 45 per week now. The MAG is in an equable position to fight a future for its HUY operation in respect of its new competition from DSA. MAG may well decide to change their business plan for the expansion of HUY. What we can be sure of, is that the people from the east side of the Pennines are about to get a real choice. When all the fuss about DSA blows over, each airport will begin to find is own ground.

There is a future for all the airports in this region.

Yorkshire :ok: the place to be is the city of Leeds.

[7006 fan]

Well said Leodis.
(Apart from the bit about Leeds:O )

:ok:

[rufus.t.firefly]

Can someone enlighten on the "new heliport". I thought it was just an additional hangar for the re-location of a police helicopter ?

[7006 fan]

The heliport is for the Police but it is not 'just a hangar'. There is a large office attached to it as well. It will be quite big!

:ok:

[Nice Jam]

Can someone enlighten on the "new heliport". I thought it was just an additional hangar for the re-location of a police helicopter ?
Not really a new heliport, as such, but an extension of the existing one. There will be an extra heli-spot on an extended apron, with a hangar facing on to it and surrounding office accomodation in what is, at the moment, the middle of car park 1. The car park itself will be extended accross the old A18 access road to provide extra spaces.

[airhumberside]

So that will explain the cones I saw in the car park today. I presume the new roundabout will be at the current enterance

[DC10FAN]

I have used both HUY and LBA regularly and will probably use DSA when flights start. I see no reason why both HUY and DSA can't exist together. The catchment area for DSA will clearly eat into HUY's area but not swallow it completely. If HUY's future was so bleak and demand for flights now reduced then why have some flights just been added? IMO the future of both airports:

DSA(within 2-3 yrs)

2 x based locos(Thomsonfly with 4 a/c and Easyjet/Ryanair with 2 a/c)
2 x based Thomsonfly 757s
1 x based other IT a/c(eg FCA)

HUY

About the same operation as now..ie.
1 x KLC F70
2 x EZE J41s
20-25 Holiday flights in summer/5-8 in winter

I don't see KLM moving their operation to DSA; after all they didn't last long at Sheffield before?
There will always be demand for holiday flights from the local area(Hull/Grimsby/Scunthorpe/Lincoln; population total @550,000); all of which are closer to
HUY than DSA.
Regards the Flybe rumour of an ABZ service; I would say demand is proven at HUY but questionable at DSA but then maybe they don't want to go head-to-head with Eastern. I'm fairly sure who would win though..

[Capt BK]

I find this whole HUY-ABZ thing interesting. The only people that use this service are rig workers, as helicopters use these two airports to serve a fair proportion of the SNS platforms. I started my PPL at HUY nearly 5 years ago and now work as an instructor there and I hever never seen more then about 6 people getting off any one Eastern flight. IMO this service has only survived because the rig workers can claim back travel expenses to their employer and hence don't mind paying the £200+ that Eastern charge.

Now I know pretty much mothing about airline operations and load factors etc but I really wouldn't think there would be a big enough market for Flybe to be interested in from HUY OR DSA. There obviously are looking as people on this thread have stated but it honestly baffles me why?

Incidentally I do have a soft spot for HUY however I am not pro anyone. I would like to see all regional airports developing side by side to secure more labour and investment for the local area as well as increasing my airline prospects:D

[aeulad]

Lo-co's are about growing the market, and that is what Flybe would do on the HUY-ABZ route. I agree that the route would not be chocca on Flybe, but with a Q400 and it's low operating costs, I'm fairly confident a reasonable return could be achieved.

The Flybe issue is about much more than just Aberdeen.

HUY and DSA both have advantages.

DSA

Advantages:
Market for DSA-EDI, DSA-GLA and DSA-BHD is stronger than from HUY. DSA could sustain at least twice daily ops to these 3 destinations.
No competition on the AMS route.
Market for French regional destinations is strong at DSA.
Larger catchment area.

Disadvantages:
Thomsonfly, already established lo-co.
Hotly rumoured BE expansion at LBA to French regional airports, would BE fly from BOTH LBA and DSA to these places? Unlikely.
Sun routes already in place, no sense in competing.
Dublin is already taken, are are Jersey and Paris.

HUY

Advantages:
Excellent opportunity on sun routes such as Alicante, Malaga, Faro and Palma.
No competiton to Dublin, Jersey and Paris.
Excellent reputation amongst regional population.

Disadvantages:
Limited domestic potential. EDI and GLA markets debateable.
Competition on the ABZ and AMS routes.
Little demand for regional French destinations.

To sum up, DSA offers Domestic and French advantages, and HUY offers sun routes and no lo-co competition. It is unlikely that any decision will be made in the near future by Flybe, but the evidence is there, and neither HUY OR DSA is a dead cert as yet.

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

Very good summary of the pros and cons there

[7006 fan]

FlyBE, now there is a bit of quality (I think) that would be nice. Notice all the domestic suggestions are to north of the border. What about London, there must be a market for either LGW or LCY. Someone told me HUY used to do HUY LHR with a Shorts 'tin can' and the route was v. popular. dunno who did it and why did it stop. Would be great if they offered the flight. Could get some decent shopping in the West End without the bump and grind of good old GNER and TPX!!
:( :D

[Jet2LBA]

The old services to LHR back in the 1980's were with Air UK on their Shorts 360's. The flight actually routed via NWI, though towards the end of it's life I think the NWI stage was dropped and it became non-stop.

As for Eastern's pax loads on HUY-ABZ, they actually average around 15-20 on each flight and attracts significantly more passengers than their LBA-ABZ. I know as I used to work for T3 and saw the pax figures for every flight. Probably still not enough to warrant a FlyBe service but just wanted to let people know that loads are ok on the route.

[circseam]

As an observer of the many lows and few highs of HUY for over 35 years I can only hope the airport owners have a business plan not to compete wih DSA but to compliement it.

My observations over the years is that HUY is not sustainable by relying on scheduled flights, as pereviously mentioned on this and other threads, there is just not a big enough catchment area to attract both regional and low cost operators to the airport.

As for the engineering hanger, it seems this could attract further traffic to the airport but as previously stated, whom would use the hanger regularly to make this a feasible option. I presume Eastern have their own maintainence hanger at the airport and would'nt contract out their work.

The current chairman of Eastern, then owner of the original Eastern back in the 80's made public his intentions to start an express package handling centre at the airport but this never came to anything. But on that thought, would HUY be a cheaper option than flying freight into the main airports then distributing said freight via the good motorway connections from the M180. Probably not pratical but just a thought!

[airhumberside]

I presume Eastern have their own maintainence hanger at the airport and would'nt contract out their work.
Eastern do have their own maintenance hanger at the airport

[7006 fan]

Thank Heavens, people are talking beyond 'bucket and spade' and scheduled services and towards things that really create jobs. As we all know Airport pay is not that brilliant and it can be a toss-up (for some people) whether Tesco check-out pay is better, especially with delayed flights and extra rosters etc. A maintenance hangar would facilitate skilled jobs and the opportunity for training, add to this; as mentioned earlier, some form of 'spoke' parcel service creating data management jobs etc and things could start rocking.
HUY has a future, certainly not competing with Finningley's 'subsidised to the hilt' lo-cost (and no-one tell me there are no incentives and Thomsonfly are paying book rate) Given there is so much Objective 1 euromoney in Finningley might Charleoi be an issue, who knows.!
Anyhow Humberside looks set to be stable and not 'peak and trough' like some other Airports and they are doing it with profits without the need to cut staff or pay. ( I read somewhere Ryanair pay their training FO 's/newly qualifieds about £8,500pa!!!)
Humberside has a loyal following, despite what one sees in the press and written in some sectors of the community here. It has no illusions of being Heathrow or predicting massive passenger numbers (unlike some) and what is the point of maxxing effort for minimal return, which makes better sense in a CBA?:
1.5m pax and £10,000 profit
.5m pax and £10,000 profit

I know which I would prefer to grow!

:ok:

[aeulad]

The rail links between the HUY catchment area and London have improved greatly with the introduction of trains from Hull to London. However, i would bet money on the fact that a twice daily Q400 HUY-LGW flight would be successful.

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

The rail links between the HUY catchment area and London have improved greatly with the introduction of trains from Hull to London
And will improve further with the intorduction of new trains this spring

[circseam]

The rail network may be good to Hull but that would still incurr an additional charge to get to HUY thus adding more cost, using the M62/M18 (Hull to Doncaster is approx. 1/2 Hour away) to Doncaster Finningley may be more appealing and with the fact that the airport is offering cheaper flights to locations other than Amsterdam & Aberdeen I think HUY has missed the boat and like others have said HUY needs to find a niche other than lo-co's and regional operators.

And I have to disagree with you Mike concerning the Q400 operation, I just cant see the pax demand to make this a profitable route, even though I'd like to see more routes open up from HUY I just cant see a London route been able to compete with the rail route from Hull.

[airhumberside]

I think HUY has missed the boat and like others have said HUY needs to find a niche other than lo-co's and regional operators.
Well HUY has got some fish flights from Iceland and the new maintenance operation so the airport is looking at new markets and trying to develop niches

[circseam]

Air Humberside - flying fish in from Iceland and the YET to be opened maintenance shed you quote is to pardon the pun "small fish", the airport , in the days of Spooner and Co has lacked vision and direction. The people of the area (inluding you and I, i presume?) want connections to destinations that other airports of comparable size have and at prices that are not only attractive but will generate further growth.

But alas, it seems that such operators see the airport like some posters on this thread does not have the catchment of pax to make such routes feasible.

Are you aware of operators that have tried to operate a network of routes from HUY and more importantly are they still around (obviously not counting Eastern Aw). The airport cannot sustain itself by relying on regional routes but the question many are asking is what niche do they aim for.

You seem to take people's constructive views and opinions as a personal attack, they are not, we both would like to see HUY prosper but also for the people in the region to be able to fly to routes other regional airports have and at a price that most people would want to pay.

How is the pint nowadays in the dirty duck?

[airhumberside]

I do not see how that was a personal attack. You said HUY needed to find a niche and I simply explained that the airport is developing some. Sorry if it sounded like an attack but I can assure it wasnt. I wasn't saying these niches will make the airport loads of money but every little helps

I believe Eurodirect tried to build up a regional network in the mid-1990's

[aeulad]

Humberside was selected as one of Eurodirect's bases towards the end of it's eventful life. An ATP and a J31 were based there and along with away based a/c, operated to Aberdeen, Dublin, London Stansted, Bournemouth, Hamburg, Exeter, Paris and Brussels. Some of the routes were dead, STN in particular. DUB, ABZ and BRU did quite well with the DUB performing particularly well. Hamburg and Exeter were served via STN and BOH respectively and performed poorly. Paris was in the middle, but not a runaway success as the flights went via BOH. The problem with the STN was that it was in the days before low cost airlines, and although 9R offered some attractive fares to London, STN was not a well known entry point. They would have been better going into Gatwick. Eurodirect expanded too quickly, and if it had survived, I think it would have evolved into something along the lines of Flybe, with HUY a cornerstone of the Network.

Along airlines that have come and gone are:

Air France by Gill Airways to Paris CDG
Sabena by Eurodirect Belgie to Brussels
Cimber Air to Esbjerg and Sonderborg
Newair to Esbjerg
British Airways regional to Aberdeen
Brymon European to Belfast, Dublin and Glasgow
Air UK to Aberdeen, Amsterdam, Edinburgh, Norwich, London LHR, Jersey, Teesside and Esbjerg
Skyrover to Dusseldorf

The debate will go on over Humberside, no-one can forsee the future, but the airport is far from dead and burried.

Regards

Mike

[circseam]

Air Humberside - Your view on HUY is great and you deserve credit for defending your local airport and as regards to personal attacks, it was the WELL (as a matter of fact) that I personally didnt like as if your views are more important then others. But I dont wish to dwell on this matter or detract from a good thread and look forward to your views and posts on HUY.

EuroDirect did operate from the airport but was very shot lived, I did state airlines that HAVE operated from HUY and are NOT around now (excluding Eastern Aw). Some of said operators Peregrine Aw / Skyrover / Eastern Mk 1 / Genair & Citi-bus, to name but a few.

Found this on another thread and makes intresting reading regarding the catchment area, I and a few others have discussed on this thread, does this imply that their is a big enough catchment for HUY ?

from “The future development of air transport in the UK: North of England”

Page 42, Table 2.2 ‘Population Catchment’

1 hour road catchement population

MAN 5-7 million
LPL 5-7 million
LBA 3-5 million
MME 2-3 million
NCL 2-3 million
HUY 0.6 – 1 million

2 hour road catchment population

LBA 16-18 million
MAN 15-17 million
LPL 13-15 million
HUY 10-11 million
MME 6-7 million
NCL 3-4 million


data per DLTR NAAM model.

[7006 fan]

Makes one think Circseam!

Cheers

:ok:

[aeulad]

I should be the operating senior on the inaugral Astraeus Humberside-Malaga flight!!! Sunday May 1st :ok:

Flight planned to operate on a LGW based 757-200.

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

I thought AEU where using a MAN based B737-700. Not complaining though since its a larger aircraft

[aeulad]

The first flight will be operate LGW-HUY-AGP-LGW on the 757. After that it's down to the MAN based 737-700s.

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

Will have to try and see the first flight then

[7006 fan]

I understand Humberside had a couple of visitors in the last few days.
A Dornier transporting the U21 German footie team.
A Bombardier CRJ/Global (I want one of these :) ) transporting the PM.

Oh AND Humberside service is nearly unaffected by Finningley, might be 1 flight down for the summer which is a lesser attrition rate than most other airports have experienced in the IT downturn :ok: . Any bets on the duration of the TUI Dublin at Finningley? :E

AND before anyone starts carping about the KLM F50, believe it or not KLM have to carry out servicing of the fleet and the 50 is the 'service supply' vehicle. Expect the return of the 70 or even a 100 soon.

[Flightrider]

KLM plan for the summer is F70 on all HUY flights. Leeds and TeesSide get a mix of F100 and F70, Norwich has a mix of F50 and F70.

[DC10FAN]

Just been looking at proposed summer flight schedule and number of holiday flights appears to be @26/week. This is the same number as offered back in 2002. Only significant loss this year is Corfu(not sure about Fuerteventura though? )but HUY has gained flights to other destinations in the last couple of years; Heraklion, Bourgas and Bodrum. For a relatively small airport I think the choice of destinations is very good.

Regards the AMS schedule; KLMC seem to be always tinkering with schedules/capacity. I've used this service many times in the last 7 years and recall the following changes for weekdays:

3 x F50 then 3 x F100s then 4 x F50s then 6 x F50s then 5 x F50s then 4 x F50s then 3 x F70s then 2 x F70s + 1 x F50 and now back to 3 x F70s..what is going on?

[airhumberside]

Thanks for posting what those unusual flights where 7006 fan. Had wondered what they where. Any chnace of the Cirrus still being in tomorrow morning?

Only significant loss this year is Corfu(not sure about Fuerteventura though? )
FUE has never actually been operated in recent years from HUY it has always been announced but later quietly dropped, same with Varna

While the only destination lost is Corfu, in some cases frequencies have been reduced (eg Menorca down from 2 to 1 a week)

[airhumberside]

Who is operating the Maderia flight tomorrow, what are the times and what equipment will be used?

Thanks

[circseam]

Does anyone know who (i.e. the company or individual) who plan to operate the new maintenance shed being constructed?

[airhumberside]

Does anyone know who (i.e. the company or individual) who plan to operate the new maintenance shed being constructed?
North Links Aviation and Wings Aerospace

[circseam]

Thanks Air Humberside

Found following link , but not much to go on, find the spelling mistake "Links" instead of Lincs a tadge unprofessional but i'm intrested to see what market they plan to attract


Wings aerospace (http://www.wingsaerospace.com)

[NFI]

Regarding the new hangar(s).

Some posts further back mentioned that Eastern could up sticks and move it's base to another airport. Why should it. It has suitable hangar facilities for it's maintenance and a route stucture that allows aircraft to position back to Huy for maintenance without dead legging. What about the office staff. How many would not move if the company head quarters moved. Everything is in place. Don't fix what ain't broke.

Right the new hangar. Aircraft would have to dead leg in for maintenance. There are not established companies in the area that support heavy aircraft maintenance. There is not a ready supply of aircarft engineers in the local area. If contractors are used then there is a shortage of local accomodation.

So rather than speculate about new routes that could operate out of Huy, why not try and work out who would be prepared to fly there aircraft to Huy for maintenance....

[airhumberside]

Airlines dead leg into SEN for maintenance so they may be prepared to do so at HUY.

[NFI]

It's a BIG MAY. Why move from an established maintenance base to one with no track record.

[7006 fan]

There is a considerable amount of maintenance traffic in both UK and Europe that cannot get serviced quickly enough. Which major UK airports could facilitate the space for engineering without causing probelms for the Lo-co's etc. There are minimal slos at LGW/MAN/LHR etc, land is scarce although only 14% of the UK is built upon (12% in 1996). before anyone asks that includes flattening out the mountains!!!:O
To a lesser or greater extent; depending upon one's point of view, engineering jobs may offer better prospects than Easyair3 to Pisa thrice daily- great to provide a service to 'joe public' at back-breaking rates for an Airport -and don't say Lo-co's do not drive the hardest bargain (usually 'cos they say they only sell tickets for a £1 -haven't been able to phone on the Monday and fly on the Tuesday for a £1!, but that is a different economic argument). OK agreed the Lo-co provides an opportunity for 3/5 people to earn an average of 15k (cabin and flight crew combined-according to some of the ad's I've seen) and ignoring the airport staff on shift, as they need to be at the airport 24/7 or whatever, likely the jobs will be seasonal with the cabin crew renting somewhere, an assumption based purely upon the nature of the job.
Engineering tends to be more stable if the reputation/track-record/pedigree is there for the company, the type of employee is usually degree+ possibly ex-RAF, therefore a more mature family person earning a high salary and likely to stay in the area, develop a loyalty to their place of work, so creating dedication and a boost to the economy.
It is all a matter of winning the business and I hope the guys at HUY do,... as I am so p..sd off reading in the paper about warehouse opportunities/TescoAsda blah blah being the panacea for the area -come on.

:*

[NFI]

Hello 7006 FAN.

Yes I am the same, I would like to see any new project take-off (pun intended), however my concern is there is not the quailifed staff in the area so to intice to move to the area costs must rise. Lo cost no like.

Unless you being from Brigg, I am wrong and the personnel to fill the jobs are in the area....

[DC10FAN]

There maybe no suitably qualified staff in the immediate area but what about 30-40 miles away ie. some large RAF airbases around Lincoln? Also BAE at Brough?
The argument about dead-heading a/c seems hollow to me; what about Lasham? No scheduled flights in/out of there but a/c maintenance continues?

[7006 fan]

What is the philosophy
".. where the jobs are created, so soon do the people arrive to fill them..." or somesuch.
DC10, I think you hit 'nail on head' I think we all know the Armed forces are being shaved back and there are no doubt engineers about and in th market. knowing what a close knit bunch the RAF are word will soon get around. and once they see the quality of life available in the 'secret county' there will be no stopping them. Better get my farmhouse before the prices go through the roof. (saw one the other day in the paper 2 acres 5 beds all mains etc £220k, only snag was 2 miles to nearest pub)
:(

[NFI]

Yes good for the airport if the potential jobs do appear. Using ex-RAF is not a simple matter, as there is a very steep learning curve to follow to move into civil aircraft maintenance. It has to be a very good employer who is prepared to help them.
Again my doubts for HUY, as a new undertaking must be staffed by experienced personnel.

[airhumberside]

I sent this email to Flybe yesterday

I run a website about Humberside Airport www.airhumberside.cjb.net and wondered if you have considered starting services from Humberside. There are many routes that in my opinion would be very popular and appear to fit your route network including Edinburgh, Belfast City and Jersey. I'm sure any services would be well suported as there is high demand for a low cost airline to serve Humberside.

Please pass this on to the relevant department

and recieved this response back today

I regret to inform you that there are currently no plans to operate a service between these destinations. However, if the decision is made to
start this service, i would like to advise you that it will be advertised in
the normal media sources.

Regards

Is this just a standard reply or have Flybe picked DSA over HUY?

[Lite]

Perhaps the success of KLM's HUYAMS route will prompt their new owners Air France to look into the viability of serving their hub at CDG or ORY to HUY.

[7006 fan]

Airhumberside,

The request to FlyBe would illicit that sort of response, like most other businesses what they tell you is true, what they don't tell you is true, and what is in the middle may also be true!!!, what they deny is true, what they say is false is true, and what they say is true is false (Confused, you should be!!!). Their response does not mean they are not looking at DSA or HUY or LBA or NCL or MME and so forth, it may also mean they ARE looking at all of the above...OR NONE, who knows!!
EDI, BFS may be popular at other airports but will the routes work at HUY, is there the catchment etc, are these suitable routes and so forth. Ergo my previous post sometime back,

"why can't I catch a train from X to Y at nnn hour of the day -I want it, so what if no-one else does!"

Paris used to be a good route, as was LHR popular, but that was a long time ago in aviation terms... c. 4/5 years. Now we have Footie-Shirts-R-Us flying to everywhere for 4pence, scheduled services cannot compete and the HUY catchment somewhat restricts, although -that being said- the 2 hour drive-time is 11m people, maybe that is the key. But would anyone want to drive 2 hours from MAN/NCL for a 50 minute flight from HUY!! :confused:
But if the routes offered were not available from other airports...such as Brussells, Marsailles, Southampton, Copenhagen, Dusseldorf/Cologne etc might these work with a small plane (Jetstream, Dornier, Beech, etc?)

I do not think HUY will grab anything out of desperation, just to get Lo-co...it's pointless and may do more harm than good -what would it say about an Airport whose innaugural Lo-co failed through lack of interest from the travelling public, rather than the efforts of all at the airport -because regrettably that is how it would be perceived. BANNER HEADLINE "Humberside loses another flight" NOT "Locals not interested in route"

Like your postings, like your entusiasm, keep up the scribings coz we all wanna get there!!!

:ok:

P.S. DSA what's that all about eh? :D

[circseam]

Have to agree with 7006 Fan, would you divulge your future plans to an unsolicited email, like Air Humberside's boldness though.

Should FlyBe start services from HUY I can only see the HUY - ABZ route being of any intrest and no doubt would offer a price substantially lower than Eastern but is there a market big enough for two operators

Circseam

[7006 fan]

Blimey,
Would not want to be around when the fur starts to fly if FlyBe do pitch for an ABZ from HUY!!! some of those ex RAF Jet Provosts that fly out of HUY might get tooled up again!!

My personal feeling is that a smallish turboprop operation ATR/Jetsream/Beech/Dornier should be profitable on the 'classic' short hop 'biz trip routes' Brussels/Paris/London City, as mentioned earlier they were available from HUY at one point or another (except perhaps City), not aware that any of the routes were failures in their own right, but more likely pushed out of slots due to demand at peak times, especially at 'hub' airports, the equation being:
20T@£15/T or 250T@£15/T!

If an operator could slot some 'code-share' onto the flight enough to cover part of the operating costs I would have thought it likely to work. Although no code share Alpha1 Airways shows that small is beautiful and can work.

:ok:

[airhumberside]

As correctly predicted earlier on this thread there will be Monastir flights next summer for Panorama and Thomson every Sunday starting in May

[7006 fan]

I had also heard this, so it is true. Get those golf clubs on board!!!
:)

[airhumberside]

Anyone know the airline?

[aeulad]

Another addittion for 2006

Palma on a Tuesday from First Choice, Futura.

Regards

Mike

[7006 fan]

This all sounds excellent, I also see that they are joining car park 1&2, the Police heliport is coming on apace, the big hangar is clad and awaiting the doors. A real hive of indusrty at Humberside AND I have heard a new Europe scheduled route is on the cards -proper scheduled too, not lo-co!!!
Shame it is not a London :(

[aeulad]

Could it be the much awaited return of Air France on the Paris run?

Other than that, I could only see something like Eastern to Brussels, maybe SN if we're lucky!

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

It wasnt that long ago JMC (as they were then) had a Tuesday Palma flight. Would be good to see a new scheduled route

[aeulad]

Humberside to Fuerteventura Iberworld on a Wednesday.

Keep em coming!

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

Lets hope this one actually starts this time after all the past announcements. Whoose the tour operator?

[aeulad]

First Choice is showing it as per the past few years. Likewise, I hope it gets of the ground this time!

Regards

Mike

[aeulad]

This is one in the eye for DSA.

Looks like Astraeus are basing an aircraft at Humberside for summer 2006.

New flights from Thomas Cook:

Corfu AEU Monday
Crete AEU Tuesday
Antalya XQ Sunday (full season)
Zakynthos AEU Sunday

This is excellent news, I am over the moon!

Regards

Mike

[LBA]

What fantastic news :)

Hope AEU do the same at LBA next year, and start some of the more 'interesting' routes.

[airhumberside]

Fantastic news. Will AEU be operating other services from HUY as well?

[aeulad]

Not sure what is going on with the Astraeus flights planned for summer 2006. The timetable would suggest a based or part based aircraft, operating at the moment to Corfu, Crete and Zakynthos for Thomas Cook. None of the other major tour operators are listing these flights. Humbersideairport.com is not listing a news story on the new flighs either. Also, no sign online of the new Monastir on Thomson or Panorama websites. I know it's early days, but all seems a bit disorganised. Hopefully it will be cleared up shortly.

Regards

Mike

[aeulad]

Not looking good folks.

According to Astraeus' planning department, no flights from Humberside planned for summer 2006.

Also, not available to book on the Thomas Cook website, or via the call centre.

Thomas Cook saying probably not loaded into the system yet, but looks like it's turning into the Fuerteventura fiasco!

Regards

Mike

[Rhigeedee]

I'd like to know why everyone has suddenly got it in for Humberside Airport, why is it all doom and gloom? Just carry on supporting your local airport and there really will be nothing to worry about.

It's a fantastic friendly airport with easy access routes, enjoy it for what it is is what I say!

[airhumberside]

Ibiza and Sunday Palma flights will be operated by Air Europa instead of Thomson Fly (who are doing them this year). I think the Thursday Palma flight operated by Thomson Fly this year with a DSA Based aircraft will be operated by a LBA based aircraft next year

There was however no mention of the Tunisia flight

[7006 fan]

Tunisia is on, not sure of the date but a mate of mine was at a T.T. bash organised by HUY for launching of said route -haven't got any sense out of her yet; she got plastered!

:ok:

For all the doom-mongers out there I gather HUY will be keping the local commercial construction industry busy over the next 12 months!

[aeulad]

I am checking-in in a few hours to operate the inaugral Humberside-Malaga flight by Astraeus!! The aircraft is scheduled to be 757-200 G-OPJB. We are due to position empty from Gatwick and arrive at HUY at 1605 local. Departure is scheduled for 50mins later. The flight is approximately three quarters full, so not a bad load for the first flight!

20 years since I started flying out of Humberside, my home airport, I am operating for the first time!

I am so excited!

Regards

Mike

[DC10FAN]

Mike,

Some photos for you at HUY..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/matt747/PICT0396.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/matt747/bcf89e2d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/matt747/f4cc4b9d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/matt747/79d6cc8d.jpg

Aircraft looks great..

Cheers,

Matt

[lez]

nice picture's :)

[Capt BK]

aeulad,

Was that you featured in a certain local newspaper that kept going on about the visiting 737:rolleyes: ! I've PM'd you a link if you haven't seen it.:)

CBK

[aeulad]

It certainly was!

I am dead chuffed! We had a great day, and the flight went very well.

Regards

Mike

[aeulad]

News on Balkan Holidays' Summer 2006 programme:

Tuesday Bourgas has been moved to Wednesday
Sunday Bourgas remains same

Unfortunately, someone down the road has gained a Varna flight from Balkan, DSA!!! Argghhh!!!

Never mind, with Zakynthos, Corfu, Fuerteventura and Monastir as new destinations, not doing too badly so far!

Regards

Mike

[holidaymax]

Afraid of competition Mike....................seems so!

Even at the expense of "your" region (not Brighton!) :)

[aeulad]

Not afraid of the competiton, as DSA is competing very well, just disappointed that HUY did'nt get the Balkan Varna flight. It would seem a little strange as Thomson are already doing Varna from DSA in summer 2006.

Regards

Mike

[holidaymax]

Thomson will be covering Bourgas next summer, and Balkan will be Bourgas and Varna.


There is plenty of room for both in the market.

[7006 fan]

New heliport is coming on a pace, went past it the other day and the office shell around the hangar is up and the hangar appears nearly clad, talk about speedbuild!!

:ok:

[airhumberside]

Any update on the Astraeus Greece flights, the Tunisia flight or the FUE flight?

[7006 fan]

Anyone know why the Spanair diverted from Doncaster to Humberside on Sunday?

[airhumberside]

Spanair dont have any flights to DSA

[holidaymax]

7006 fan what would you have in life without DSA to bash!

[Nice Jam]

The Spanair did indeed divert to HUY, apparently because DSA have no radar. Info from here (http://www.doncasterfinningleyairport.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=186&start=56).

[holidaymax]

As Airhumberside says Spanair don't operate into DSA for anyone so this "rumour" is untrue.

[7006 fan]

Airmax, sometimes you guys astound me.
Even when it is true you deny it. Methinks all DSA people been to the Tony Blair school of ultimate denial.
What was that guy's name who said "...the Iraq army will be victorious, they are pushing back the heathen American, Iraq is winning!..." comical Ali wasn't it?
I am not going to make a song and dance over the divert to Barcelona for the Alicante service, these things happen to all, nuff said, no fault of DSA.

[terrywilcox]

As you say I think a thomsonfly plane DID make an emergency landing at Barcelona from Alicante. I guess the a/c was returning to Doncaster. No connection with the previous rumour,although,as you say,these things can happen to anyone.

As it happens,of course,no difficulty at DSA.,although again,no guarantee that DSA wont have difficulties,as all airports have from time to time.

Incidentally I just realised that this is Humberside thread. Sorry.

[7006 fan]

The Spanair was chartered as no Thompson aircraft was available. Spanish Aviation Flying Regulations would not allow the aircraft to land as they were not satisfied, on safety grounds, with the current radar arrangements at DSA , hence the divert.
Bit rich coming from the land where ATC always go on strike in the busy periods but...

Hey Nice Jam,
Thanks for the link but unfortunately it leads nowhere. According to the web-site the bulletin board has been closed until further notice. "...Not me guv\', have not made any postings there -honest..."

:suspect:

[airhumberside]

The forum and related ste linked to has had problem with a virus or something similar

[7006 fan]

Definitely not me, not a clue about viruses. Isn't DOS something to do with being lazy?

[airhumberside]

Apparently a Air Greenland B757 visited on Friday on a troop flight. Could they become a regular thing?

[AndyHUY]

Any news on new services from HUY yet? What do you think the future will bring HUY! I hope success!

When are Flybe going to announce new bases? Are astreaus going to operate a base at HUY?

[circseam]

New services from HUY!

Most expect a low-cost operator but as said time after time, is there a sufficient catchment area around HUY to put bums on seats, think DSA have that market well and truly tapped now.

Possible FlyBE may operate the HUY - ABZ route, ABZ owner BAA reporting significant growth on the route.

Why would Astreus base at HUY, your logic is?

[AndyHUY]

I believe that some of the more popular destinations would put bums on seats! The catchment, although relatively small, could support a lo-co, just as exeter can!

Heard a rumour about astreaus thats all!

[airhumberside]

Looking at the MyTravel Winter and Summer 2006 brochures there is a Thomson Fly/Britannia flight on Sundays from the 12th February to 30th April but no mention of the AEU flights from May to October. Have these been axed?

[aeulad]

It would appear that the AGP flight for summer 2006 has been scrapped. This is beyond me as all the flights so far this season have gone out pretty much full.

The Astraeus base rumour for summer 2006 in line with new flights to Zakynthos, Corfu and Crete is unlikely. AEU commercial dept saying no HUY base in the pipeline. It would therefroe also put into question whether or not these flights will happen, or if it is a printing error.
Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

Any good news?

At least we will have the Eurocypria Crete flight still next year for My Travel. Any word on the airline for the Tunisia flights?

[AndyHUY]

Make way for a lo-co then! The airport director said he had six new routes in the pipeline that he expected to announce soon! Do you think this has gone down the pan? Has DSA stolen back the AGP? I know the Thompson one moved there for this summer but i was hoping that this new service would stay! I try to stay optimistic but sometimes its hard!

[7006 fan]

Methinks the Lo-co hope is gone. Sorry chaps but that seems to be the fact. HUY missed out a few years ago by not bending the statistics. The catchment is about 500,000 with 1 hour but bursts to over 5,000,000 within 2 hours but HUY likes it's reputation as a 'local' airport so do not expect to see a lot apart from charter. Also they stuck to their guns and would not do 'suicide deals' with the likes of M O'L etc (free landings for life and a £1 for every pax the plane brings in ....no way Hosee!!!)
This may upset people who want lo-co but given all aspects lo-co could have killed HUY stone dead in a very short space of time.
HUY is now running at a profit, a small one but it is in the 'black' two years running (never before in its history!). Liverpool and DSA ain't and I do not think Tees-side is either, Exeter have got to spend about £15m on their terminal to satisfy lo-co, how long will it take to return the money spent and then make a profit. Cash Flow analysis spreadsheets at the ready, what's the NPV at 10%? About 20 years give or take!!! any advances?!!! (this is the bit the SLF do not understand)

Cheers

:ok:

[circseam]

Stolen routes from HUY to DSA.........call the cops?

It seems DSA and HUY will always vie for credidability, routes and the supporters of both airports seem to loose sight that both airports have a role to play in the development of the region.

I believe that HUY has miised the boat also when it comes to Lo Cost, I personally think HUY couldnt handle a 2x daily service to any european route and make a profit with 737 / A319 a/c.

Maybe a niche operator like EU jet with slightly smaller equipment could possibly make said routes pay, HUY is an enigma, it is a good regional airport but just in the wrong geographical location. Travel 2 hours from HUY and the figures are great but then this is also the catchment area for DSA and with a far more routes for the masses to choose I think DSA has to be the choice.

The FlyBe rumours of them operating from HUY are abound but in reality what routes would they open up, HUY-ABZ would probably the one and only.....time will tell if this rumour becomes reality.

DSA is and will attract the low costs, regional operators and charter's possibly even long haul carriers in the comming years and that is good for the region that both DSA and HUY are located.

[AndyHUY]

I suppose i agree when you say that HUY may have missed the boat as far as lo-co is concerned although i have to say that there is demand for some of the more popular destinations i.e. alicante, malaga, palma, CDG and AMS although probably not at a frequency similar to that of DSA or NEMA!

The catchment area for HUY is more nearer 1mill rather than 500,000, within an hours drive! The airport is more like exeter, serving a predominantly rural area although Hull and Grimsby are large enough to support some flight services!

It would appear to me that HUY are being careful in not putting all theit eggs in one basket and are looking for niches to make money!

It just astounds me that the likes of BOH, owned by the majority shareholder of HUY, can attract this traffic and HUY cant. Ive drawn my own conclusion that any potential operator is going to look at DSA's affect on HUY before they move in! Although it is not the best geographical location i dont feel as though they are serving the area the best they can.

There is a lot of work to do, we just need to get rid of this small town mentality!

[AndyHUY]

www.phpbber.com/phpbb/?mforum=flyhuy (http://www.phpbber.com/phpbb/?mforum=flyhuy)

Just set up a forum dedicated to HUY and DSA feel free to enter your comments

[7006 fan]

Circseam,
May I suggest you check HUY schedules. OK they may not be 130 pax a flight but:

AMS thrice daily
ABZ four times daily

With 2 baggage belts, one of which is designed for 767, handling up to 400 pax at any one time is not a serious problem. HUY could manage it every hour. This happens quite regulary in the Summer. ATC have no problems, there are so many 'puddles' zipping in and out it keeps them well busy in the spaces between the big jets.

Cheers

[airhumberside]

Talking about B767's, are the ThomsonFly/Britannia ones on a Sunday to Palma all summer or do they stop soon? If so when?

Thanks

[AndyHUY]

The HUY-AMS service is very popular and a similar route to CDG and Brussels would also work!

I have flown on a number of occasions to Copenhagen and you would be surprised at the number of people that origionated at HUY on the AMS also travelling to Copenhagen! Im sure the number could warrent a daily service!

Low-cost is not something the airport needs but it is something the local people want, wether or not we will get a lo-co is another story but i know the market is there we just need a STABLE airline to provide such a service!

As i have said before if youve ever been on the so called (Lap top LM) early morning service you would be surprised how busy it is!

[7006 fan]

Airhumberside,
I think the 767's are there for the usual period -up to the end of June/mid July.
Andy,
The CDG/Orly would be a great route but, now that AF is merged with KLM, they may not want to dilute the pax to AMS. Copenhagen sounds interesting never been there before. Brussels would be a reasonable lo-co 'business' route and possibly Dusseldorf,but no doubt the sort of lo-co HUY will go for will be some beach resort somewhere.
:(

[AndyHUY]

I think those destinations would work though not with a large aircraft! The bucket and spade type of destinations would be good but the airport needs the right mix of services and throw in a few business routes and i would say you have a succesful regional airport!

Dont know about AF i think they would compliment each other rather than compete with each other! It would just mean that they could offer more choice than they do at the moment, which is a good thing! I think regional air with an EMB-145 would be perfect!

Copenhagen would be best served by Eastern due to it being predominantly a business route and their low seat costs would mean that they wouldnt have to fill their aircraft in order to make a profit! I believe corus and the local shipping industry would be the biggest customer, as these tend to be the people who usualy go HUY to Copenhagen via AMS!

Im not sure about Dus but its worth a try! I understand an airline operated this before but pax numbers declined making the route unprofitable!

BRU has been operated before and was popular with the business end of the market, helped by the code share with Sabena allowing onward connections!

There has been a market for these before and the market for air travel has grown considerably in the last few years, so i can only suggest tht these routes will be just as popular, if not more than they were when they were last operated!

[airhumberside]

I believe any CPH service should be operated by Cimber Air in codeshare with SAS, like at NCL and ABZ. This would provide some connecting possibilities as well as local passengers. A stop in Esjberg would also allow the route to capture North Sea Oil related traffic

[panda-k-bear]

Andy,

What are the demand figures HUY-CDG or ORY? I'm interested to know if the figures that you have really do justify the use of an Embraer 145 - 3 times a day, say - as well as maintaining a 3 or 4 daily KLM service (whether it be F50, F70 or a mix thereof). The demand analysis surely take account of that.

p-k-b

[AndyHUY]

The former CDG route opeerated by Gill used an ATR42 aircraft and then increased capacity by adding the ATR72 both two daily rotations! I believe the EMB145 would be the right aircraft for the job, but just my opinion thats all!

When the previous service was running the average load factors where increasing and the KLM was not affected as the pax had more choice of destinations with both AF and KLM and they just complimented each other!

The only problem people had with the service is that it was not a jet hence the reason i suggested the EMB-145!

The CDG services could have been just as popular as the AMS had it not closed down after Gills demise! Just unfortunate for the region, many of the businesses in the region used this service just as they do the AMS!

[GrahamK]

If I remember rightly, wasnt the 9C/AF HUY-CDG flights split with MME i.e. MME-HUY-CDG-HUY-MME?

[7006 fan]

Was it not also a 'plane they turned into a freighter at night whichcaused all sorts of problems on turnaround.

[circseam]

7006 Fan - My original post may of mislead you into thinking that I was referring to the airport actually being unable to handle low cost operators, I wasnt, I was referring to the airport being able to attract enough pax to operate a 2x daily flight to european routes (other than Amsterdam).

I just cant see any of the major low cost operators being able to make a profit on a 2x daily flight BUT I also thought that Blackpool flights to the continent would'nt also work and look how they seem to be doing.

As a user of HUY and an ex-resident of the area I would like to see HUY thrive but lets be honest, high cost flights to ABZ and one european route to AMS does not seem to have the attraction that could pull in the punters. DSA from the start has been well publisised, the low cost operator has advertised the flights available and from what I have seen the services are attracting the punters with good load factors.

[AndyHUY]

DSA has an enviable catchment area nd it will be great to see how it developes! HUY does not need high frequency LCC routes it just needs the right ones at the right frequency, maybe 3 times weekly for the more popular Alicante, Palma, Malaga etc. I dont understand why you think only AMS would be succesful, i think a daily AMS would pull the pax in but also a regular CDG service wouldnt go a miss! Maybe a single based a/c like BMIBaby at MME would be suficient nd would pull the pax in! I believe the airport could easy double the pax number per annum and sustain that! The region needs this, if it cant be kept running then i cant see a bright future for the region at all!!

[panda-k-bear]

Andy,

With what traffic? Business or leisure? How are they going to stimulate the demand? It's all very well saying "I want more destinations" but if you can't get bums on seats, it isn't going to work. I'm a great supporter of HUY - it's a fab little uncomplicated airport - but even I have only used it a max of 4 times per YEAR! There lies the other issue - you need to stimulate both outbound and inbound traffic - it can't all be one way. This is where HUY has big problems as well. I want HUY to survive, I believe it deserves a service to at least one other major European destination but I don't believe the traffic or yields are there to make that happen - yet. Here's hoping one day it will work out.

p-k-b

[aeulad]

There is without a doubt, some kind of market for low fares flights from Humberside. Amsterdam, Paris, Dublin, Belfast, Jersey, Malaga, Palma, Faro, Alicante and Prague could all sustain a low fares operator. The size of the aircraft is the main problem at the moment. No-one in the UK with the possible exception of Euromanx has something in the 60-90 seat category that is suitable to operate these routes. Business opportunities exist also for flights to Brussels, Copenhagen and Esbjerg. This debate will go on and on, but unfortunately until anything is concrete, we will just have to keep our fingers crossed.

Regards

Mike

[AndyHUY]

Yes i agree the area is not of any great interest of inbound passengers except business! Generaly the flights to the tourist destinations dont attract inbound either people who use them are actualy from the area on a return ticket, as far as i know anyway! The ones i could see potential in are LGW/LHR (which is unlikely at the latter for obvious reasons! CPH via Esbjerg (to support the shipping industry in the area (I presume thats why its popular with people from HUY to go there via AMS)! CDG for an alternative to AMS, DUB possibly but at a daily frequency at the most, with a LCC! And a few Lo-co favorites like Alicante, malaga, faro palma!
I know that some of these will probably never happen but im optimistic that a Lo-co of some sort will come in and at least serve the core routes listed above! As long as HUY keeps the AMS then im quite happy!

[niknak]

It's very unlikely that HUY will ever attract low cost operators, simply because, given the competition from LBA/DSA/EMA, they don't have the catchment area or demand to warrent any of the said operators even considering it.

If any other operator was interested in any other scheduled route from HUY other than ABZ or AMS, it would have happened by now.
The Gill Paris flight was merely an extension of a night freight operation and nothing more, it barely broke even, and after 9/11, it was one of the first routes to be pulled by Gill's administrators. Gill went bust because of increased post 9/11 insurance costs, no other reason.

As for the other scheduled flights that have tried, and failed, from HUY, it's all down to lack of demand, regardless of what anyone "thinks" or "would like".
ABZ is an expensive airport to fly in to.
To operate a low cost flight anywhere, you need a big aircraft (minimum of 50 seats) to offer the cross section of low to medium cost fares, this couldnt be justified on the HUY - ABZ route, which is only patronised by a relatively small number of passengers on each sector (20 or so), and that's where Eastern have the edge, and always will.
Until and alternative operator gets (ie pays for) interline handling facilities at AMS, KLM will always have that route as their own (as they will at many other regional airports), and it will never be low cost.

HUY is good at the "bucket and spade" flights, and will never succeed at much else, thats not their fault - it's just the hard facts given the location and demand of the area.

I don't wish HUY any ill will, but frankly, any other thoughts of expansion are simply bollocks, they are danger of being reduced to nothing within 3 years by the far more efficient operation at DSA and LBA, yet they don't seem to be doing anything about it.

By the way, Bournmouth, although also being owned by MAN PLC, has twice the catchment area, and, it would appear, an infinently better marketing strategy.

[AndyHUY]

I thaught Gill closed operations in December 2000??? We will always go around in circles about the catchment area, we have our own opinions on that subject and i keep saying that airlines are probably holding out to see what happens at DSA before making a decision! Im sure HUY can hold its own!

I agree that the management seem a bit incompetent and the marketing leaves a little to be desired, im sure FR will have pproached the airport at some point but the loser would inevitably be HUY! It makes me wonder if Nrth Lincs Council are holding MANplc back, fearing losing the profit theyve been making in the last few years making HUY a no go for lo-co?

[airhumberside]

im sure FR will have pproached the airport at some point but the loser would inevitably be HUY!
Ryanair have approached the airport at some point but I remember a Scunthorpe Telgraph article saying the airport had been informed by Ryanair that they would not be serving Humberside:(

[AndyHUY]

Ryanair have approached the airport at some point but I remember a Scunthorpe Telgraph article saying the airport had been informed by Ryanair that they would not be serving Humberside

I think that was more recently though! I recon they may have been in talks a few years back but that kind of operation would really do HUY no good, they want too much for nothing and a tight profitable airport like HUY cannot afford to lose that, this probably has something to do with a certain local authority that kept its shares! I wonder what their intentions are? I suspect they dont care, afterall much of that region is just as close to DSA so as long as HUY stays profitable they wont care what goes on!

[airhumberside]

North Lincs Council will care if there profit goes down the plug hole because passengers/airlines desert the airport. How about thinking of the wider economic/regeneration impacts to the area of attracting a new low cost/regional/hub (eg Air France) airline?

[AndyHUY]

Thats what i mean though, they have DSA on their doorstep and will brand that as their local airport! I cant see the services moving myself but it would seem that someone some where does not want the airport to grow much in terms of pax movements. Be it incompetent management not wanting to move into the 21st century, or not marketing itself the best it can, or the owners are just happy with a tight profitable organisation who would rather have the money in their pockets, rather than providing a public service like most other airports in the country do!!! The catchment area (or lack of) does not brush with me, it is no worse than CVT, EXT, MME etc.... Something has to give! They wont survive off niches, someone down the road will always go one step ahead! They need to start listening to what the people want and not waht keeps certain other people happy! I realy hope the airport expands in terms of pax movements and everything else, it just makes you wonder why HUY is so unlucky!

GET RID OF THE SMALL TOWN MENTALITY!!!

Sorry mate dont want to sound snotty, im still optimistic that something good will happen there in the near future! Just something seems to have held it back all these years, and no its NOT the catchment area! I hope FLYbe move in and offer us what the region needs to stay alive, Not talking about Scunny but Grimsby and Hull, the main population that needs an airport to be proud of. Just like Donny have DSA!

[circseam]

AndyHUY

Your wish list if routes isnt going to happen, the small town mentality is because the area just aisnt large enough. Check out previous posts for the possible pax that may use HUY and youll no doubt see that the population is quite small or as you enlarge the catchment area DSA has the market covered.

To atttract pax you require services, to attract services you require pax, its a double edged sword and HUY has missed the boat.

If low cost was comming to HUY it would of been done by now, as Air Humberside stated Ryanair (A major low cost operator would you not agree?) whom have the financial stability to give a route suffcient time to mature and break into a profit.

Alas, for reasons probably linked to airport charges etc demanded by Ryanair we shallprobably never see a low cost at the airport.

Im afraid your comment doesnt rest easy with me, the catchment area is the major problem, operators without the financial muscle of the major low cost carriers are not going to start a route just because there arnt any, its about bums on seats = profits and im afraid that just aint going to happen at HUY, HUY is just situated in the wrong location.

Read Nik Naks post, it probably sums up the whole HUY operation in one better than most posts on here.

As for marketing HUY, the owners do make a profit, they probably, unlike you realise the airports limitations and have decided to stick to regional routes and charters.

[AndyHUY]

I think your being a bit narrow minded arnt you bud? DSA is not the be all and end all in terms of Yorkshires airport future you know! HUY CAN grow to service more than it does now, i dont care if you agree or not it can! The high profile demise of Sheff Citys services should have shown you something!

[Andy_S]

i dont care if you agree or not it can!

AndyHUY,

With respect, your attitude seems to be one of "I'm right and that's the end of the matter". It's not very convincing, certainly not in comparison to a well argued post such as niknak's.

I can't help but smile at some of the reasons given for HUY's inability to take a great leap forward. "The loco's are interested but the narrow minded council are keeping them out", "the right sort of aircraft aren't available", and of course the great catch all "they've been unlucky".

The simple fact is, despite several attempts, over many years, no one has been able to establish viable scheduled routes out of HUY other than KLM and Eastern.

Why do you have such a problem accepting this?

[circseam]

AndyHUY,

My initial response to your post was neither inpolite or narrow minded, I felt, yours however, can only be described as offensive and quite wrong.

I am neither pro DSA or HUY, I grew up actually between where the two airports are located, I take an intrest in local aviation and have just come to a conclusion that is somewhat different to yours. No one whom takes an intrest in the area wants to see one of the airports fail, having two airports so clsoe together is a bonus with both airports offereing services for different markets.

This forum is about discussing aviation related topics, like life most people have a view on subjects that may or may not be in line with your thoughts. Respecting anothers view point and then replying with statements that are neither correct or dont further the topic is obviously something you fail to get the hang of.

Andy_S seems to of have found your post in the same vain as I do, too not too reply would give the impression that I concurr with your "childish" like response, and therefore, hence my response.

As for linking the owners of both Sheffield Airport and Doncaster airport is meant to add what to your eratic post, yes they have the same owners, your point being? Or are you trying to imply that because Peel took over Sheffield Airport and its contratural obligations and may (or may not) close for the devlopment of industrial wharehousing does not have any bearing on DSA, so again your point is?

[AndyHUY]

Childish? No, i wont accept that! We are both going over the same topics over and over again! You cannot accept my point of view either, i dont see my posts offensive at all and i dont mean any offence!

You may be the same person arguing with me over DSA a few months back, on the airhumberside site, i dont know, but you came across to me as narrow minded!

I respect your views but i feel as though you give me a similar response at times, to what you say to me is my response and dont feel as though you can respect my view point either!

I am fighting the corner for my part of the world, the part of the world i have lived all my life (Hull) and i agree with you, the catchment is not great but simply saying that it can do better than it currently is, is not saying that it will attract the large ammount of services that DSA will have! Just simply a few more core routes that it has not been able to offer before! Which people would use regularly!

My initial response to your post was neither inpolite or narrow minded

No it was not BUT there are more people, not just those in north lincs (Who appear to have the best of both worlds) thatdont want to make the 1hr plus journey to DSA when they have a perfectly good airport on their doorstep. That was the point i was trying to get across! There is a big city here, it is a regional center, with an estimated day time population of 500,000 people who work in the city but half live in the more affluent outlying towns and villages! That is what i mean, that and grimsby, i would say, is enough to offer a few more services than currently on offer, therefore i feel my point of view is valid!

If any other operator was interested in any other scheduled route from HUY other than ABZ or AMS, it would have happened by now.

That may not be so, some airlines from time to time look for niches and, although things dont seem to happen much it only takes one to make a go of things! Time will tell but i remain optimistic, in the light of big things at Exeter, Manston and Coventry i think its possible at HUY too.

[7006 fan]

I think the future of HUY will be revealed in the Master Plan, required by Government, to be prepared by all airports. The content should outline proposals for the next 30 years (i think), but also detail 10 year chunks. Someone told me growth was forecast to be slight with pax numbers not reaching 1m until the early 'teens!
I really, really, really, hope that is not true, if it is then the towel is truly in the ring :(
HUY does its B&S charter really well, (the scheduled AMS is efficient -shame about the continued return of the F50 by KLM though), but there is only so much charter that can happen b4 people move on to different holiday locations.
Varna was supposed to happen 2 years running and hasn't, rumours abounded of Croatia -zip. at least there is a new Tunisia for Winter, they also have 2 Turkey as well but all are very vulnerable to changes in the market and load factor performance -get a rise in fundamentalist attacks and..., if the Spain market begins to wane and these new destinations are not whizzing of the tour ops shelves then there is a big hole that cannot be plugged by the non-existent bread and butter scheduled market HUY should have to enable it to bounce along in a forward direction and not slowly sink to the bottom, please let that not happen too many third parties have a lot of money tied up there.

[AndyHUY]

(the scheduled AMS is efficient -shame about the continued return of the F50 by KLM though),

Apparently from October 05 there will be two F100 and one F70 daily, that can only be a good thing!

I think the holiday companies should start to advertise more of their seats as flight only, as more people are going on villa holidays now, if no lo-co is going to operate these routes then that should put a few more bums on seats. I fly to Alicante in september from HUY flight only. It is the same price as Thompsonfly at DSA and CHEAPER than easyjet at NEMA! maybe a company like Planet air at leeds that sold seats on charter aircraft?


Someone told me growth was forecast to be slight with pax numbers not reaching 1m until the early 'teens!

It may not, but if it continues to grow it would be nice if about 750,000 in the next 10 years can be achieved! Or at least so that its in line with MME!

if the Spain market begins to wane and these new destinations are not whizzing of the tour ops shelves then there is a big hole that cannot be plugged by the non-existent bread and butter scheduled market HUY should have to enable it to bounce along in a forward direction and not slowly sink to the bottom,

I think something in the scheduled front will happen before long! I see FLYbe were advertising in the Hull Daily Mail today, OK from Leeds Bradford BUT...... I still wait in hope!

Failing that how about air southwest? Perfect aircraft for a LGW, CDG, DUB dont you think?

[MrDearne]

To AndyHUY

I am no expert but I like to think my credentials entitles me to maybe argue a point you made. Hull is not classed as a big city, it actually falls in the category of large town/medium city status, along with the likes of Doncaster, Derby, Leicester and Huddersfield to name but a few. Because of similar sized economies, Hull use Doncaster as a 'yardstick' in terms of measuring and comparing progress. Both (I could be wrong) have economies to the value of approx £4 billion.
In years gone by Hull, I believe, was the 4th largest city in England, but you have to remember that in the 1980's the entire economic infrastructure of Hull was ripped to shreds.
Doncaster alone could not sustain a (successful and dynamic) international airport, and neither can Hull. The immediate population surrounding HUY (Hull, Grimsby/Cleethorpes, East Riding of Yorkshire, North Lincs etc) amounts to little over 500,000, which is less than Sheffield alone.

I read somewhere that you suggested only 1% of passengers at Humberside Airport were attributed to South Yorkshire. Being a bit of a statistician I find that incredibly hard to understand, paricularly as Humberside, I believe, is bordered by Doncaster to the west. I don't suppose you can cite your source Andy?

Passenger figures in April at HUY, according to the CAA, were down 17% compared to April of last year. HUY was struggling before the arrival of DSA. The next 12 month are excruciatingly pivotal for HUY. I hope it pulls through, but I think it needs a good deal of fortune to do so.
It's been said many times before that an established airline offering a variety of destinations is paramount for HUY. If the 1% of South Yorkshire passengers is accurate then the figure needs to rise dramatically because that is a geographical area HUY should have sewn up years ago.

[7006 fan]

Mr Dearne

I might be wrong but the drop in pax is, I think, purely down to Thompson haring off to DSA -nearly lock stock and barrel. But they are now trapesing back again because their theory that HUY pax would follow the plane was wrong, the HUY pax is loyal to HUY and it is that loyalty that is important, a loyalty to an airport not a route. Interesting concept is it not? But given the population of the area, it does somewhat toll a Lutine Bell for HUY unless they can encourage a wider 'loyalty factor'.
The no-hassle aspect of HUY is great for me, getting AMS onward connections, a second Star Alliance carrier to another major hub would be excellent news, bring on another scheduled service (Paris/Copenhagen/Madrid...) HUY.
PLEASE


:ok:

[isa kite]

Mr Dearne

"Humberside were struggling before DSA"

Depends on your definition of struggling, I suppose. 2004/05 showed (slightly) more pax the the year before. 2003/04 produced a profit at HUY, and another can be expected this year when results are announced.

I agree, DSA will make a difference in the short term, and HUY can look forward to a difficult couple of years, but if airport operators worried about a bigger airport just down the road, then Coventry, LBA, Teesside, and even Liverpool would never have developed as they have. As the old joke has it, those people announcing HUY's demise are a bit premature!

[circseam]

I believe the point Mr Dearne is making and this whole thread seems to be revolving around is the FACT that DSA will be the dominant airport in terms of offering destinations and of through put of passengers due to its locailty to a mass market.

AndyHUY and others can argue and stick to their guns as much as they like, thats their porogative but too class the two airports as the same is just not either reality or correct. They both want the same market but unfortunatley due to CATCHMENT area of their locality only one will appeal to the operators they so badly want to attract.

I admire you Andy for fighting your corner (Over the top sometimes fella!) but even you must see the facts and figures clearly speak for themselves and while your precious HUY is making a profit it can and will not compete with DSA solely down to its locaility.......NO ONE IS KNOCKING HUY....... like you I was born and bred in the area, like you I want to see HUY grow but you want european services on a par with major regional airports.........Andy its not going to happen........but you know this already dont you.

[isa kite]

Most people see catchment areas in far too simple a manner, usually in terms of distance/time from the passenger's starting point to the nearest airport. However, I suspect that I'm far from unusual in that, although I have three airports within an hour of my home, and have in fact flown from two of them, most of the flights I have taken in the last twenty years have been from further afield.

The definition of catchment areas needs to accommodate the services available from the airport in question. So, even if I live at the gates of DSA, if I want to fly to Amsterdam, or by KLM, or in any way not served by DSA, I am in someone else's catchment.

Simply counting the population within an hour's drive is less than helpful, even if everyone does that. Differentiation is the way close airports can compete, even with their bigger neighbours. So Liverpool competes with MAN by specialising in LoCo, and Coventry competes with Birmingham and EMA, even though EMA is a big LoCo site itself, by offering a different LoCo operator. Writing off HUY is premature, as I've said before.

[MrDearne]

7006 fan, isa kite

Hand on heart, I can categorically say with 100% conviction I wish HUY to succeed. I spent a good 2 years of research with regards to urban regeneration projects in the area, mostly (I hasten to add) tucked away in the famous Brynmor Jones Library at the University of Hull. I know what the airport means to you guys, but the simple fact of the matter is that for some reason HUY has chose to 'cocoon' itself for a better word. I know, that the potential has ALWAYS been there for HUY. If what Andy says and only 1% of users came from South Yorkshire (before DSA was in use), then what a horrifying statistic that is. Your talking what, 25 miles from Doncaster, maybe 40 from Sheffield. It just does not make sense. Thousands of people in your area used LBA, Manchester International and NEMA when there was a good enough airport on their doorstep. We all know why this is, due to the limitations of HUY etc., but you have to ask yourself WHY the limitations. I just can't see any rationality behind the powers that be wanting HUY to stagnate for so long. Long before now HUY could have had the likes of Easyjet, Flybe etc, if it had sold itself properly. I just do not know what the thinking is behind HUY. It's like a nervous child with the fear of failure motivating its limitations. All around HUY has seen substantial increase in pax numbers and destinations...NME, LBA, NEMA. There is no excuse as to why HUY could not have done the same, only now it's going to be increasingly more difficult because DSA is on the scene and DSA is intent on moving rapidly forward.
A hell of a lot of what you guys say, is said trying to justify and making excuses for the lack of success enjoyed by HUY. It's only natural for you to protect and 'stick up' for your airport, but sometimes you wonder if your loyalty is misguided, and to some extent misplaced. To be brutally honest, I think HUY has missed the boat. I think it missed the boat 3 or 4 years ago. Maybe DSA in years to come will faulter as a consequence of running before it can walk, but at least it had a great time faultering.
At the end of the day, I feel, there has to be some agenda as to why HUY has not progressed and emerged as a big player, as it should have done. Everything else in the area is progressing nicely. There is a huge amount of investment totalling tens of millions being spent in the Hull, Grimsby, Yorkshire East Riding area, the airport is uncharateristic of the way the area is developing.
2005 should have seen HUY at least on par with the likes of NEMA, and as a consequence of that DSA would never have been built.

[circseam]

isa kite - Totally agree with your comments, however to understand why HUY cannot seem to attract new services from the airport it is, I believe a factor in its abilty to maximise its possible potential.

Its locality, even with excellent road connections has not attracted the services that other airports of roughly the same size of runway and potential catchment area it is still to attract an operator with multiple routes to either UK or European routes.

There must be a factor as to why these operators have not come to HUY and with the opening of DSA it now has an even harder uphill stuggle to seek the services that the likes of AndyHUY and 7006Fan desire.

The facts add up for themselves as to why DSA will become the airport of choice for the region both by shear potential nyumber of passengers and by the routes currently being offered from dsa. With the possible introduction of long haul to DSA it will leave HUY as a small regional airport with limited flights to destinations that the public want.

Mr Dearne - "I feel, there has to be some agenda as to why HUY has not progressed and emerged as a big player, as it should have done" - COULDNT AGREE WITH YOU MORE

[Andy_S]

if airport operators worried about a bigger airport just down the road, then Coventry, LBA, Teesside, and even Liverpool would never have developed as they have

I think that's a very fair comment. It does, however, imply acceptance of the limitations of the airport in question - and that's something that the local spotters and enthusiasts seem to have a problem with (and HUY is by no means the only example).

This part of PPRuNe is full of so called 'happenings' threads which have proliferated over the last 6-12 months. Having browsed through a number of these, it strikes me that virtually every regional airport has die hard followers who claim that their particular airport is underutilised and that there is demand for much, much more than is being provided. (Many even go so far as to specify in fine detail the destinations, aircraft types and flight frequencies needed, and even the most appropriate airlines to operate the routes).

My observation therefore is that there is either a vast market out there which is not being catered for, or that the local enthusiasts are perhaps kidding themselves. And when I read about the many and varied routes and airlines being mooted for HUY, and indeed the excuses offered for their non appearance thus far, I know what I believe......

I have no axe to grind vis-a-vis HUY and DSA. I hope when the dust settles that both are economically viable and able to co-exist with eachother. But I DO wish that one or two people would occasionally take a reality pill.

[aeulad]

flybe want to open an Eastern UK base besides Norwich. Now that they have ordered the ERJ195, HUY is in with a chance. The 146 could not make it from HUY to the likes of FAO and AGP in the summer, whereas the E95 can. flybe has said it is considering HUY, DSA and to a much lesser extent, MME. With French routes on the cards from LPL and LBA, would they really start them from DSA too? Surely a UK domestic/Ireland/Europe network from HUY would be better suited to the market.

Regards

Mike

[gary4444]

With French routes on the cards from LPL and LBA, would they really start them from DSA too? Surely a UK domestic/Ireland/Europe network from HUY would be better suited to the market.

What makes you think HUY would be in with more of a chance, its not like its further away than DSA?

[aeulad]

As in HUY would not get French regional flights, but flights domestically, N + S Ireland and Sun routes, maybe AMS, CDG, PRG etc. These routes are already flown from LBA and DSA, so it is unlikely that BE would fly anywhere other than French regional and UK domestic routes from DSA. It's a case of France and UK from DSA or UK and Sun from HUY.

Regards

Mike

[circseam]

Is there really a market from HUY to destinations noted on this forum, if there was so much potential traffic why arnt regionals and low cost alike beating the path to fly from HUY.

What operator is sat there mulling over the idea from HUY when DSA offers so much more, sentiment for the HUY is does not account for anything, its routes that the paying public want at prices that can attract users to HUY.

As someone whom says lives in Scunthorpe that is approximately 1/2 between HUY & DSA what airport would you be using currently, HUY with high cost routes to AMS & ABZ and then theres DSA with european routes with affordable prices.

Doesnt take a genius to work out that DSA is the airport that once was the domain of HUY (Having said that, I do believe there is a market for HUY but not the market the sentimental HUY supporters have in mind) and that airport has had a long time to attract and grow its market share but just hasnt capitalised for whatever reasons.

[airhumberside]

at least there is a new Tunisia for Winter
Dont you mean summer?

flybe want to open an Eastern UK base besides Norwich. Now that they have ordered the ERJ195, HUY is in with a chance. The 146 could not make it from HUY to the likes of FAO and AGP in the summer, whereas the E95 can. flybe has said it is considering HUY, DSA and to a much lesser extent, MME. With French routes on the cards from LPL and LBA, would they really start them from DSA too? Surely a UK domestic/Ireland/Europe network from HUY would be better suited to the market.
Unfortuantley I think Flybe is the last realistic chance for HUY to get a low cost airline. I just hope we get them. With regards to MME surely they could sustain limited Flybe service to BHD/JER/SOU whatever happens at NCL, LBA, DSA or HUY?

[AndyHUY]

I am keeping an open mind about FLYbe, i have heard rumours from many non-aviation enthustasts that it intends to start a few routes from HUY.

I read somewhere that you suggested only 1% of passengers at Humberside Airport were attributed to South Yorkshire. Being a bit of a statistician I find that incredibly hard to understand, paricularly as Humberside, I believe, is bordered by Doncaster to the west. I don't suppose you can cite your source Andy?

It was in the Aircraft Illustrated article about DSA. It is from the CAA apparantly! Doncaster is at least 40 miles away by car and i would have thaught that NEMA would have been the prefered choice for South Yorks air pax!

The problem is that HUY has not got the type of operation that people would travel for but it does an OK job at serving the local area. If a major brand name came in, like at Cardiff with BMIbaby (BMIBaby having chosen Cardiff due to the lack of lo-co operations so no direct competition, they believed that pax from Bristol who could use easyjet, would go to cardiff also) HUY could use the existing customer base with others coming in from other 'invisable' catchment areas for airports such as DSA and LBA!

The immediate population surrounding HUY (Hull, Grimsby/Cleethorpes, East Riding of Yorkshire, North Lincs etc) amounts to little over 500,000, which is less than Sheffield alone.

The actual Humber region, as it is sometimes refered to, has a population of around 870,000 and growing, that doesnt include alot of the northern and western parts of East Yorkshire! The airport has, within an hours drive, around 1 million people.

Unfortuantley I think Flybe is the last realistic chance for HUY to get a low cost airline. I just hope we get them. With regards to MME surely they could sustain limited Flybe service to BHD/JER/SOU whatever happens at NCL, LBA, DSA or HUY?

That may well be the case unfortunately. I am hopeful they do come to HUY, I cant see them wanting to compete against thompsonfly at DSA! And i believe that in the next couple of years Ryanair will have a base at DSA! FLYBe like to operate from smaller 'local' airports and maybe HUY has that appeal!

Who knows, i hope they go for it though!!!

[7006 fan]

There has been a thread running through here, about "hidden agenda's", there is likely some truth in that, most -if not all- UK airports with any clout have a lo-co, HUY does not. I think we can all agree that Airports do not, at the moment, make a profit from lo-co, maybe in about 5/10 years (I think the deal with Liverpool is set to offer a return in 2012 or somesuch), maybe HUY (Manchester's) event horizon does not spread that far? They are and have been a very risk averse airport, understandably so, given it's vulnerability of location -minimum 12 miles from the nearest centre of population very different to the Gatwicks, Heathrows, Liverpools of this world.
WHY DOES NOT HUY TICK!
It looks like a gold-mine. regular rig service -find me another airport that close to that rig area of the North Sea?, a decent runway capable of supporting up to 767, direct link to themotorway network (via 3 miles of a de-trunked A18) close to the Humber sea ports -Immingham & Hull.
OK not many tourists want to see Lincs and Yorks, what we got to offer, Opera North (ha-ha!) and a few second rate concert/pop arenas, but heck we've got nice views!!!!:(

No, we do not have a dynamic economy, the local councils and regional funders are stuck in some sort of time-warp hoping 'Brassed Off' and 'The Full Monty' are reality and not fantasy. I gather N Lincs are pinning their hopes on developing the South Humber Bank as a giant Chemical works (Fu.. that!), Regionally the labour-force is lean and keen but who wants to gut fish for the rest of their life. The deprivation in areas of Grimsby, Scunny, Hull and Doncaster breaks your heart.
Not suggesting that Airports are a panacea for all the ills -by God the pollution that jets' create is far worse than a traffic jam on the M25! but commerce and industry are such that this is a price we have to pay, and airport salaries are not brill either, in fact one is possibly better off as a security guard up North as the differential is only a few thousand to working the same job down South (where a 2 bed terrace costs £150k!!!!! min).
But swinging back to the main theme, it is a burning question, why since 2001 has HUY not encouraged/obtained scheduled flights and just gone for bucket and spade do they not realise that air travel is more than holiday destinations or is that the agenda..."we have reached our catchment level for holiday flights and therefore will grow based upon population inflation only"
:ugh:
...cking sad!

[airhumberside]

I gather N Lincs are pinning their hopes on developing the South Humber Bank as a giant Chemical works (Fu.. that!),
Last I heard there pinning evrything on regenerating Scunthorpe (I wont say what I think of Scunthorpe here) and hoping there is a knock affect elsewhere. What about Barton or dont you care about us?

Sorry for going off topic. Now back to HUY .........

[7006 fan]

A-H,
The plan I saw in the ScunT showed everything from Barrow/New Holland to Immingham as a huge great industrial estate
:yuk: so much for fresh air. I have driven through the Grimsby estate on the A180 and it smells like boiling paint, what on earth will it smell like with chem fac's all over!!! We will be the 'dirty man of Europe', maybe our employment is cheaper than Wroclow etc!!!! So much for being an advanced first world country, but be happy the big bosses will earn a fortune!!! Be grateful and revel in that fact!

:ok: AS IF

A-H,

Barton Upon Humber is better than Scunny any day!!! (sorry Scunny)

:ok:

[AndyHUY]

Why do they feel the need to build all that on a very pleasent part of the world? What are the plans? Are they on thisisscunthorpe? I think the towns in the area have great potential, Hull and Grimsby have very enviable waterside areas that would be great for luxury offices and appartments. They just need to pull their finger out and get the investers in!

On Radio Humberside they were doing a report on people coming up from the fasionable south east to live in our region (n lincs and e yorks) due to cheaper properties and friendly people! I expect the local population to grow hopefuly bringing in an even more culturally diverse population!

Sorry back to HUY!

[7006 fan]

Andy,
It is not on the ScunT web-site as the news article is over 9 months ago, but I am sure N Lincs Council can enlighten. Methinks encouraging a South-North migration is a good idea, providing we do not end up like the South West, an area full of weekend retreats for stockbrokers, although that could encourage a City/Gatwick/Heathrow flight!!!
;)

[circseam]

Well of subject but...............

Deprivation in Scunny, Hull & Grimsby, aint that in every large town throughout the country but have 1st hand info that in one of these area that to encourage unemployed single parent fathers to attend group meetings that the council offer free bacon butties (all food stuffs free but fathers have to cook the bacon, they even complained about that!) and as much tea / coffee, then to encourage them even more after so many attendances (they get a stamp for every attendance) they get a £10 gift voucher for boots.

When asked what they spent there voucher on it seems the local narcotic dealer was doing alot of purchases in boots, wonder where they came from.........

Back to the subject......... no one has yet answered "Is there really a market from HUY to destinations noted on this forum, if there was so much potential traffic why arnt regionals and low cost alike beating the path to fly from HUY."

[AndyHUY]

no one has yet answered "Is there really a market from HUY to destinations noted on this forum, if there was so much potential traffic why arnt regionals and low cost alike beating the path to fly from HUY."

Unless anyone who comes on here is part of the management of the airport or airlines we wont know for sure. The airport, as said before, may have been approached by FR in the past but it wouldnt it do more harm than good? The very low landing fees that they expect, and a lot of terminal expansion, would probably kill the airport!

There are very few airlines that i can think of that would be prepared to use HUY. Saying 'if there is such demand then they would have started by now' isnt realy true. The FLYBE base at NWI for example, they have only just started flying from now and they hardly have an extensive program from there, i suspect they are gradualy going to provide more routes. The airline will need to build on their current bases before announcing more bases hence a predicted announcement for 2006.

Which airlines could you think of that would come to HUY to operate services? Airlines in the past have been unstable franchise carriers, operators starting too many routes too soon and just small airlines with impatient financial backers! None have realy been able to grow the market and they just fail very quickly. Im sure HUY management will be careful not to let that happen again, losing routes and leaving PAX in the lurch does the airport no good at all!

If new routes are ever to be started then i would have thaught a major brand name would be the only real way to pull the pax in! We dont need any EUjets!

I await fingers crossed.

[circseam]

"We dont need any EUjets!"

I think you should be very garteful if any airline wants to operate out of HUY especially a low cost operation and they even operate F.100's, maybe a size suitable for a regional airport like Humberside.

"Which airlines could you think of that would come to HUY to operate services? "

Then in answering your own question you select who can and cant operate from the airport, obviously your own view but a strange one may I add.

Saying 'if there is such demand then they would have started by now' isnt realy true"

And so you speak for the masses of eager locals queing up to fly to AMS or ABZ? Andy, if there was such a demand that you hype then an operator will of alredy tapped into this "huge" market but alas there is no such operator is there Andy, why not, because there isnt a demand cos the airport doesnt have routes that appeal to the masses.......now take DSA and by the 1st months pax figures I think they have the market that encompasses poor old HUY tapped.

[7006 fan]

Low cost is exactly what it says on the tin!
The lo-co's do not pay anything verbatim, not aware of any other industry where this rule applies. Imagine somewhere like Meadowhall taking on a shop tenant who says
"..I will take one of your units at no cost and sell my goods, they are a brand leader and sell very well, I will keep all my sales profit and I will not pay electricity,rates or any security charges, you can make your profit from the car park to pay my rent coz your car parking charges a £2.00 an hour (or whatever)..."
Imagine it on the railways ...similar rules as above applying, except BR (or whatever they call themselves this week) can get additional income from the sarnies sold in the Lemon Tree!!!
taking on lo-co is either suicide or a brave step, the jury is out.
Flights from HUY?
Certainly not one's that would impact upon their charter market (turkey votes for Christmas!), lo-co internal is a possibility VLM to City or LGW might have legs. Lo-co to South of France could be a go-er, lo-co to Central/Eastern Europe a possibility, maybe even a c/e Europe carrier who knows?
Charter, HUY have flights to Turkey so could offer Cairo/Alexandria, Morocco, Kenya (with a fuel stop) [Air 2000 used to do that LGW-Mombasa, but you did not know until you were on the flight!] Gambia, Norway/Sweden for ski-ing, Latvia etc. nearly anywhere with a fuel stop. Who knows.

[airhumberside]

We dont need any EUjets!
Oh yes we do

[circseam]

7006 Fan - We can all choose a destination, trouble is enticing an opertor and then filling the dam things, just cant see any of those routes being on offer until either we have a new owner of the aiport and has a radical re-think to his business plan or suddenly HUY moves in the night to where it can have those prospective passengers.

Pure pie in the sky 7006 Fan and is just a wish list but maybe the charters could continue to be a sucess

[AndyHUY]

I think you should be very garteful if any airline wants to operate out of HUY especially a low cost operation and they even operate F.100's, maybe a size suitable for a regional airport like Humberside.

Contradicting yourself i think.

We dont need any EUjets!"

Last i heard they where not doing very well. Do we need an airline that risks flopping five minutes after it starts? HUYs life story!

[circseam]

Andy

For someone with whom has a passion bordering on an obsession regarding HUY I'd of thought the chance for any operator to fly to or from your beloved airport would of been like all your birthdays had come at once.

Is planestation / EU Jet not doing very well, surprising then that they seem to of flown their scheduled routes today without a hitch, surely an airline in trouble would be slashing routes but myabe I'm wrong and your right, yet again.

A contridiction, yes maybe, I have in the past stated that I dont believe that low cost oerators a/c could make a profit from operating to / from HUY but as someone whom has a passion for aviation in the area of HUY (and DSA) I'd like to see any operator (even an operator that lasts 5mins may at least prove if HUY has a market for low cost routes) come and try routes from HUY, prove the doubters like me wrong, but I just cant see it happening.

I believe i'm a realist, you, I belive are something quite different

[AndyHUY]

Enthusiast not obsessed! If EUjet could come in and make a good go of it and stick to it then thats fine i would be happy! If the airline just flopped it would be worse than not operating at all!

[circseam]

Andy,

Think as I said earlier, should any low cost operator decide to take a chance and actually fly to/from HUY then at least one way or the other it will finally answer the question, can Humberide International Aiport attract enough passengers to attract and fill an aircraft operated by a low cost operator........ It may be a long wait Andy.

[AndyHUY]

It may be a long wait yes, the general members of the public up here would have probably not heard of EUJet so to get the best potential out of Humberside would a well known and well branded airline not be better for the HUY market? While i agree the HUY area alone could not support extensive lo-co operations the chance of getting such names as FLYBe or JET2 would mean that people from further afield may come in and make up the short fall of PAX. Thats the unique thing about this country that people have the choice of not traveling too far to a number of different airports within a couple of hours away, HUY has that chance as it isnt realy far from South Yorkshire and parts of West Yorkshire and DSA cannot provide everything its catchment wants, thats where airports like HUY can pull back their market share and increase it. 6-11million people living within 2 hours of the airport is not a bad number, despite DSA and LBA im sure there is room for HUY.

[Andy_S]

Is planestation / EU Jet not doing very well, surprising then that they seem to of flown their scheduled routes today without a hitch, surely an airline in trouble would be slashing routes

Which is, indeed, what they've been doing. Cutting back on routes, and substituting their F100's with turboprops on some flights. They can continue to operate their scheduled routes only because they are being propped up by their owners Planestation. Without parent company support, they would go out of business in weeks, if not days.

[eastern wiseguy]

public up here would have probably not heard of EUJet


And the same I suspect for BFS .I have not seen ONE advert for them here!. The times are odd as well...arriving in Manston at 2300ish...not convenient for much.

[circseam]

Andy_S - I stand corrected, ATR's instead of F.100's and just read that even after the investment at xmas they are still selling assets.

[AndyHUY]

Thats exactly what i mean though, any new airline has to be looked at as unstable at first as many dont make it very far at all due to the 'cut throat' nature of the business. If EUJet did come to HUY (Which i doubt if they realy are struggling at their current bases) wouldnt it be worse for the airport than none at all? We dont realy want to be let down again do we? If a well known and succesful airline came in then i think we would see a lot more stability and loyalty. I think the regions pax should be given a choice, lets see if any airlines see it that way, or is HUY too much a risk for investment?

[7006 fan]

This is all getting very interesting. Sometimes I wonder about the aviation industry, its' Business Plan usually does not extend beyond the next flying season. "How we do last time...not good...Ok cut some routes..." Thompson did that at HUY, now Thompson are coming back. They could have shafted HUY with that move, good and proper, but HUY have fronted it out and Thompson realise they made a boo-boo. My earlier post refers.
HUY needs an entrepeneur to come in another Stellios or such and start ops maybe on a long term risk share deal, maybe the Airport co-operating the aircraft and fly the routes they want/think will work to encourage an airline in (the proverbial sacrificial lamb or stalking horse) try the route, see if it works. People seem to want proven destinations but lo-co proves this incorrect, I am good at geography but some of the places Ryan fly to, well...
Quick poll (unofficial)

Within 1 hour drive time of Lincoln (for example) or Sheffield
[please indicate in your response!!] to an airport (encompasses CVT, EMA, DSA, HUY & BHX if you own a Ferarri! LBA {doubt it-it takes over an hour to get to LBA from S.Leeds :) } )
get to or be connected to the following destinations with a maximum 1 change of plane:
Milan
Madrid
Brussells
Southampton
Frankfurt
Amsterdam
Bankok
Cape Town
Kiev
Vienna
London
USA
Belfast
Cardiff
Cologne
Copenhagen
Helsinki

Not wanting to bang the drum for HUY, but most of the 'long hauls' are via Schipol. The others are routes have "fly appeal", yes/no? are they routes the lo-co don't do generally (sorry about the grammar!!!) [mind you they go everywhere now?!]:uhoh:
What about lo-co to Bulgaria (yikes)

Andy,
I think pax go where the route is. The SLF are like sheep. If HUY offered/convinced an airline to do Falaraki (for example) on lo-co or club 18-30 or whatever, the desination is the key, but and it is a big but...would they drop their prices to make it happen, not only landing fees but car parks, food, beer... it is a big risk and needs a lot of guts to front out, nerves of steel and possibly a death wish!!!
Bulgaria is a property hot-spot lo-co might just make 2 turnaround per day (3 flights in possibly)bargain houses and flats. Run the route for a year and see what happens.
Ski is a first for HUY in 2004. I gather it has been busy with the ski flights. We are closer to Sweden etc than most why don\'t HUY offer more ski/mountain routes?
the speciality guys: Voyage Jules Verne, Hayes, Dragoman, Explorer, regional should surely appeal to their mrketing strategy.
What p**sess me off most is getting tickets with LHR on them, that just puts me on a downer. Sorry LHR it is not nice flying from you, great airport highly efficient and briiliant facilities but when one is doing \'euroshuttle\' A320and the passport queue is mainly 747 three of them!!! it's a pain.... hence I love regional, through check-in job done.

[AndyHUY]

Many of those ideas are great, however wont DSA just snap them up? I would have thaught an airline would just go to the most popular destinations that maybe prove popular from similar sized regions like Exeter and Norwich. Did Thompson realy try to drop HUY? I know that some timings have gone to DSA but they have always said that they remain committed to HUYs PAX.

Does HUY even intend on trying to get a loco? Might they just want to stick to the services they have and maybe gaining and losing the odd charter flight here and there, whilst making money off other things so as to stay in profit?

[7006 fan]

Andy.
I am sure that is an option, and seems to be the HUY gameplan. "Stick with what you know, don't gamble". I heard that Thompson were pulling loads from HUY but the HUY pax were not to be bullied :ok: to the pax. If Thomson had not come back this year then HUY would have had a real problem I am sure, the loss of a 767 would have been awful for them, but it did not happen, whether that is down to HUY or pax or a combination we will see.

[airhumberside]

With regard to skiing in Sweden. There are only or two ski flights to sweden a week in the ski season. Austria, France and Switzerland are far bigger ski destinations