Emirates now leading foreign carrier at Melbourne Airport

[Wirraway]

travelbiz.com.au

Emirates now leading foreign carrier at Melbourne Airport

Emirates has become Melbourne Airport's largest foreign carrier in terms of available seats with the launch of double daily services to Dubai and New Zealand.

The second largest international carrier after Qantas, Emirates now offers more than 17,000 seats to passengers flying in and out of Melbourne.

The addition of one weekly service from Dubai to Christchurch via Melbourne means that Melbourne-based travellers can choose to fly Emirates non-stop every day to either Auckland or Christchurch .

It also means that they have the choice of two daily flights from Melbourne to Dubai: one non-stop Airbus A340-500 flight and one direct Boeing 777 flight via Singapore.

Emirates operates a total of 42 flights a week between Australia and Dubai, with this number set to rise to 49 when services from Sydney go double daily in early 2005.

9 December 2004

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[Ultralights]

not hard to do for an airline that doesnt pay tax (australian aviation dec issue) and next to nothing for fuel. but they dont get any help from their govt!

[zulu_kilo]

The fuel they get is not that cheap. Besides, they purchase it in CHC and MEL the same price as everyone else.

[cyclops camel]

Ultralights,
We often tanker fuel into Dubai as we buy it cheaper at outstaions. Our books are open for you to inspect if you desire.
Our aircraft are leased at commercial rates. I could go on and on but it's already been done to death in this forum.
Maybe you should stick to making comments on topics you actually know something about.
CC. :p

[Ultralights]

i was taking my information in Australian aviation magazin interview with Tim Clarke, President of emirates, i remebr reading that they recieve No government hand out, but also goes on to say that the dubai govt has little or no oil for revenue, so it secures its eceonomic growth with very low company tax rates to attract business and commerce, which it has done very well, he also goes on to take a few good swipes at Qf! and makes a good point. It interesting also to note that they have everything planned, aircraft, routes, frequencies, maintainence, everything out to 2012! what other airline has that kind of forward planning! he also noted Qantas hadnt amended their Indian bilateral agreement in 30 yrs! emirates amends theirs every 2 weeks!!!
he also mentiones QF dormant grandfather rights! what exactly are these?

[Eastwest Loco]

Ultralights.

Grandfather rights refer to a route capacity arrangement that was negotiated years ago, for instance when intercontinental aeroplane services simply HAD to stop at Dubai, Bombay or Calcutta due to limited range.

Unless rescinded, these rights can effectively be reactivated at any time, hence if QF had an arrangement wit the UAE for reciprical passenger uplift, then it is most likely still valid and they could start up the port pair again with a minimum of red tape.

As for EK in the last 6 months I have had the pleasure to do 3 legs with them on 777 equipment in J class. AKL MEL and MEL SIN MEL. All excellent with great service. The interesting one was SIN MEL during Rammadan - the flight didn't roll unti 1520 out of SIN and we scored the aisle with the UAE crew members. Poor buggers were so strung out from not eating since sunup that they were nearly asleep on their feet.

Grandfather rights were also one way that East-West got around the 2 airline agreement with the "charters" they traditionally operated SYD OOL and SYD HBA.

Best regards

EWL

[Sunfish]

With the greatest of respect Ultralights, would you like us Melbournites to abandon Emirates and patiently wait for Qantas to fulfil our need for direct flights?

[Buster Hyman]

Well, it just goes to show that if you provide a quality service (new aircraft, double daily frequency etc) the punters will flock to you. QF have been SYD-centric for so long & are perhaps too cautious to see an opportunity. AN was much the same.

Long term, who knows. EK may "burn" out after a decade or so & QF may have the last laugh...the suspense is killing me!:hmm:

[Chimbu chuckles]

Inerestingly EWL the fasting rules do not apply when travelling. It is not required and they should be taking sufficient sustenance to be in shape to do their jobs...it's a common misconception and one management are loath to address.

[Eastwest Loco]

Interesting indeed Chimbu.

I raised this in conversation on a recent QF Holidays Educational (read very enjoyable junket) to Cape tribulation.

The others on the trip, most of whom I knew seemed to all have a similar Rammadan travel story.

They were very pleasant, but obviously struggling a little. The Brit girls on the port aisle were through J before the UAE crew got past the 3rd row, and they were doing the middle seat as well.

No matter, it was an enjoyable experience.

I will also add that QF and the A330 amazed me. Went up J to Cairns, back in Y.

Crew was great, catering exemplary and the aeroplane is absolutely one of the best I have flown on as SLF. 300 series up and 200 back. It is nice to see that the crew no longer have to apologise for the catering. Most impressed Mr Rat.

Best all

EWL

[Gnadenburg]

Chimbu

It depends on which sect, cult or Mullah's interpetation of the Koran, as to how far one should take their Ramadan liberties.

[CAYNINE]

Hmmm... interesting to note though that Qantas was approached by EK 10 years ago to code share through Dubai.... QF in its inimitable way scoffed at them and turned the opportunity down!!!!
My how they have come to regret that one hey. (source also is Tim Clarke’s Interview).

Go Emirates; take as many seats from the rat as you can!!!

[ZK-NSJ]

during a recent trip to melbourne i flew emirates, bloody lovely servcie, and cheap

i did a search on the net before hand, qantas came in at around $600 (for 3hrs in a clapped out 737), air nz was $500, pacific blue $400, and emirates came in at $389, the a340-500 was spotless, food was great and the cameras were cool.

[Johhny Utah]

I guess that seeing as they are struggling to find passengers for the sector they feel they can afford to virtually 'give away' seats...:eek:
The Fin Review recently quoted the Emirates trans tasman flights as being the poorest performing in terms of load factors of all the sectors flown by the major airlines into/out of Australia, with an average load factor of just 21% - that's a lot of empty seats on the Airbus :oh:

[DJ737]

It doesn't matter to EK how many pax they haul back and forth across the Tasman, they are only on the route for the freight.

MEL-CHC has gone from 3x Weekly to 6x Weekly and now daily in the 5 months since they launched the route.

Also EK add 3x weekly DXB-BKK-SYD from 29 Mar 05 increasing to daily from 01 May 05 with B777-300, probably send these flights across as well :ok:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

The bottom line is the Emirates aircraft were flying to Australia from Dubai, and sitting on the ground through the day waiting to leave that night, so the jump across the Tasman and back, is the cherry on top for Emirates. Even if the loads are low, at the moment, it really is not a huge concern to them.

Qantas can scream all they like about unfair competition, government assistance, and an unfair playing field, but the bottom line is that people will fly with whoever delivers. You fly Emirates, and you are always in a modern aircraft, with a fantastic inflight entertainment package. You fly direct (alot of the time) from the Oz destination to Dubai, and then have a fast connection to almost any destination in Europe. And heaven forbid your connection is delayed, you get to sit in the mini Irish Village Pub at Dubai airport and have a pint or 3. Hmmm I can't see why they are doing so well.

[one ball]

You fly Emirates, and you are always in a modern aircraft, with a fantastic inflight entertainment package. What about the old 777-200s? What about the old A340-300s? Modern but hardly new. Not on the Aussie routes but on plenty of others.

The "fantastic inflight entertainment package" is great in theory. How often does it function flawlessly?

A jump across the Tasman is hardly a cherry if it costs them money.

[max AB]

You're missing the point, the pax are the icing, the route makes money on freight. NZ exporters can send perrishables non stop to the middle east or one stop to Europe. Previously their dairy/lamb etc would be off loaded at least twice. This is a big advantage for the exporters and they are making use of it.

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

I can only say from personal experience, reference the inflight entertainment, but going on a 747-200 with Cathay and watching the movie on the shared (not so) big screen that you are told to watch, or on an A330,B777, or A340 where you choose the movie you want to watch when you want, in the seatback screen, I know which I would choose. Never had a glitch personally. And while the B777-200's and A340-300's may be not new, I have found them to be well maintained, unlike some other carriers.

As max AB said the freight direct to the Middle East is a huge plus, not only for Emirates, but for primary producers in Oz and NZ. Just go down to the Supermarkets here, and see all the Oz and NZ lamb and beef for sale and you can see what a huge market it is here. And best of all I can buy Vita Brits here now, and not those dodgy British Weetabix :ok:

[zulu_kilo]

DJ737 - quite true. In fact EK had its record uplift out of AKL earlier in the year.

[The Holy Grail]

EK pax numbers doesnt really matter at least across the Tasman - the freight capacity/pricing is hammering ANZ's trans tasman business....

[Far Canard]

I can't believe that airlines are still using such an historic business model. That is getting market share at any cost. Emirates is pathetic - a full service carrier charging LCC airfares. This is the sort thing that should be regulated against. By this I mean that prior to getting approval to operated on a certain sector you can prove your operating costs and your expected revenue are realistic.

To allow foreign carriers to enter the market and operate in this fashion creates instability and company failures. The problem is that they are all guilty - Air New Zealand acted this way against Kiwi International with Freedom. Qantas has set up Jetstar against VB etc.

Competition is a good thing but cross subsidising a loss to get market share or kill competition is not acceptable.

For the workers it creates a fantastic hiring boom which is shortly followed by the bust cycle.

The Trans-Tasman market good be summed up by the old Split Enz song:

I see red I see red I see red

[Don Esson]

What Emirates are doing between Aust and NZ is nothing short of cherry picking. They have three choices

1. have a quick T/Round in Oz and deliver their Europe/UK bound pax to Dubia at some ungod;y hour that doesn't provide any quick cannections. Result - few pax or unhappy pax

2. sit a/c on the gound all day long in Oz

3. find somehere to fly them during this 'down-time' and cost the operation on direct costs only (that is, ignore standing charges as they are incurred whether or no aeroplane flies). This way they can hit the market with what appears to be unsustainable fares. Unforthunately, this is causing grief to both Qantas and Air NZ but they are victims of their Govt's stupid policy of giving rights to anyone who wants them. It's also a sad fact of geography that results in both airlines being at the end of the line rather than in the middle. Those in the middle, like Singapore, Malaysian, Emirates, Gulf Air etc can exploit routes like this quite easily.

As for freight, if Emirates operate direct to Dubai, they either carry a lot of freight and few pax or a lot of pax but little freight. Are the aeroplanes they operate marathon runners with the strength of Sampson?

'nuff said..

[Sunfish]

Yes Far Canard and Don Esson, but what if Emirates is making a profit and not going for marginal costing?

Its not a very safe assumption to assume you are the lowest cost carrier and anyone undercutting you is obviously selling at less than cost.

Furthermore, I'm sick of all this veiled talk about "protecting" QF from competition. If QF can't compete, let it go under as quickly as possible and stop standing in the way of progress.

[ferris]

Competition is a good thing but cross subsidising a loss to get market share or kill competition is not acceptable
Then.... The problem is that they are all guilty -
Some of the biggest offenders are QF and ANZ- so when someone does it back to them it's suddenly not on? :hmm:

[Don Esson]

Sunfish,

Do you know something that we don't? The shiny new equipment and high cost expatriate crews used by Emirates would not be considered when they cost Tasman operations. Either that or they are operating at a loss. We know that they are not a charitable organisation so they must be costing the extra sections marginally and setting their prices on that. No other way to do it except at a loss.

I think we can also say that if the National Party (in Australia) and its vested interests did not exist, the priviliged position now enjoyed by Emirates would not have been allowed develop by either the ALP or the Liberals. Australia's interests would have been protected. And why the hell did the NZers give them rights?

[DJ737]

And why the hell did the NZers give them rights?

Because there is an open skies agreement between NZ & UAE, and they needed an airline with something bigger than a B737 or A320 to get stuff out of the country and on to the Middle East.

[Far Canard]

Ferris

Most carriers have practiced the cut throat pricing system in an attempt to kill competition. The long term result is negative.

I am not supporting Qantas or Air NZ or wishing Emirates to go.

Countries need stable air transport systems. If you consider the Qantas New Zealand / Ansett Australia / Air NZ failures recently then you will see the result of where head in the sand aviation policy takes you.

[Eastwest Loco]

I am sure you good people would have remembered that prior to Airfreight becoming a seperate division, Ansett operated many freight only 762 services Australia wide, and returned a very healthy profit.

If EK has the freight contracts, and you can bet your bottom dollar they do competing mainly against 733's and A320,s with the odd 744 and 767 thrown in, that they are on a real winner, particularly against the narrow body equipment. The scheduled times ex early morning arrivals are excellent too, with produce picked up in working hours and on the shelves next morning first thing without "out of hours" staff required.

The SLF are a bonus and deduct the parking charges at respective airports, but add the crewing costs.

These EK blokes are no dopes, and provide an excellent aeroplane, first class cabin crew and state of the art entertainment for the punters.

Why am I not amazed that intending passengers even in my relatively carrier-uneducated market are coming in through my doors and requesting them by name?

Just ask yourself, what would you rather travel on, a 733 with a pension card, an A320 or an A340-500 or 777-200, complete with state of the art entertainment systems?

EK has also just (today) become available on E ticket to Sabre connected agents and are still paying 9% on the Tasman as well as everywhere else.

As an exercise in passenger and reseller acceptance, they got the Gold.

Best all

EWL

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

the priviliged position now enjoyed by Emirates would not have been allowed develop by either the ALP or the Liberals. Australia's interests would have been protected. And why the hell did the NZers give them rights?

Maybe you might argue that Australia and NZ's aviation interests are not being protected by letting in Emirates, but then again Qantas is a public company and therefore needs to stand on it's own two feet against international competition.

The interests of Australia and NZ away from Aviation though, are certainly not only protected but supported by having Emirates delivering fresh produce daily to the Middle East. As I said before, go to any supermarket in the UAE, and other than dodgy looking indian beef and lamb, all the red meat is from Australia and New Zealand. Wander over to the Fruit and Vegetables section, and a large proportion of that is from Australia. So many primary producers in Australia and New Zealand are profitting greatly from the regularity and reliability of the Emirates service to and from Australia and New Zealand.

Another point is that the direct flights to Melbourne and Sydney, and then the short hop over to New Zealand, is making the snow fields of New Zealand very attractive to the large number of very well paid expats here wanting to swap some sand for some snow. If you look at the costs of skiing in Europe, it is cheaper as a package to fly to NZ from here. That has to be good for New Zealand as well.

Short term, based on passenger revenue alone, yes, the jump over to NZ and back may not be returning a profit. But if you factor in the freight issue, along with the long term gains, of building up the route for passengers over time, I think Emirates will end up winning.

[Buster Hyman]

Very little yield on Trans Tasman freight. 40cents or so I think...been a while. However, on a PAX aircraft, it's always just the cream on top, so it doesn't matter as much as it would to the freighters like LH or CV.