Speed limits. How does it really work?

[Lear35pilot]

Would like to get som ATC input on the following please;

A few days ago I was approaching an airport in Denmark. We were cleared down to FL70 by Copenhagen radar. We read back and asked if we could keep "high speed" (meaning ofcourse to keep our speed above 250 below FL100). The controller said yes.

As we were passing FL120 we were handed off to the local approach-controller and issued a descend clearance to 2300 ft. My colleauge then asked the "nice" apch.-guy if we could keep high speed. We were told that he had no speed restrictions for us but that we should remember the speed limit below FL100 (thank you for letting us know that there is such a rule).

My colleauge then told the controller that CPH had said "high speed approved". The answer was that he must also have ment to FL100 since they can not do anything about the limit below FL100 (Is this correct?).

I would like to know how this works. At MANY places in Europe you are frequently told to keep high speed, also below FL100. When may you clear us to maintain speeds above 250 when we are below FL100?

Appreciate any info since this is not the first time and I would like to have it clearified.

Thanxs,

LJ :)

[Chilli Monster]

Have a read of:
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum1/HTML/012947.html

Should go someway to helping to explain things.

CM

[information_alpha]

LJ, in britain there are certain circumstances where the 250kts speed limit below FL100 can be ignored. For example: in class A and B airspace, where atc approve high speed in class d and e airspace. This information is taken from the ATC bible - Manual of Air Traffic Service Part 1. It is a whole page of restrictions and criteria but the above is why some times you can get "high speed approved" and other times not - hope this helps. However as a pilot i cannot believe all this is not written down somewhere for you?



[This message has been edited by information_alpha (edited 10 April 2001).]

[Flanker]

information_alpha

I don't think ATC can waive the limit in Class E in the UK, only A,B and D.
See yellow AIC 35(Y291)98.

[information_alpha]

flanker - thank goodness then a) not radar valid yet, b) no class e airspace to deal with - will take your point though!!! (and find the bit of paper in the mound to read!

[stopbar]

In Class G which is where I'm from its 250 kts max below FL100 unless military(civ rules don't apply), otherwise itspecial dispensation only, plus a few other specialist reasons, for run of the mill GAT ATC cannot lift this speed restriction its the law!!!

Stopbar

[Wheelybin]

Information Alpha,
As an Atco In Scotland I suggest you read up a little bit on the Edinburgh and Glasgow local areas.( The only place where class E exists and it sucks). If you are an approach controller you are in serious trouble, If you are an area controller ,then this is just the sort of thing that this thread is about. If you are a high level/Oceanic controller,I apologise,but you should be dealing in mach numbers anyway!

[information_alpha]

wheely, as my last post said - i am not radar valid - tower only!!! i agree there is small parts of class e but the posistion of them mean if we have a jet going through them the speed limit is the least of out problems (although of course it would be observed)!

[Lear35pilot]

Thanks everyone!

After looking into what kind of airspace surounds the airport in question I now have a better understanding of what the controller was talking about.

Appreciate your info :)

LJ

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