UFOs [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

Astra driver

6th Dec 2004, 00:09

A couple of years back I was doing a "redeye" from LA to Miami and about halfway across the US, shortly before sunrise I noticed a bright light on the horizon in the eastern sky that appeared to be white but would change colors to blue or red, it also appeared to move and "bobble" slightly.

Our first reaction was that it was an aircraft approaching us head on at an altitude close to ours with it's landing lights on. A quick check of our TCAS followed by a query to an otherwise silent ATC showed no other aircraft in our vicinity.

After several minutes the light did not get any closer, nor did it go away, but a carefull check of it's assencion relative to the horizon showed that it was slowly rising. Clearly what we were seeing was a bright star or planet, the changes in color were probably caused by refraction in the atmosphere and the motion we witnessed was most likely an illusion caused by movements of our own eyes trying to focus on an otherwise empty sky.

I suspect that many supposed UFO encounters are in fact stars or planets. I'm still curious as to which planet or star it was.

daina

6th Dec 2004, 02:44

I think it is rather a pity that pilots are discouraged from reporting UFO experiences more openly and thoroughly, since they can shed light on two very important issues for aircrews: crew coordination and spatial disorientation.

I recently analysed the Campeche incident involving a Merlin on drug-interdiction duty. While the released video was fragmentary, the data strip on the FLIR images was revealing.

This experienced crew managed to capture excellent infrared images of the Campeche oil fields while ignoring radar targets about 120 degrees from the direction the FLIR was being pointed - clearly a crew coordination problem. Furthermore they managed to convince themselves that the FLIR targets were nearby and moving with the aircraft at about the same level - spatial disorientation with a high-tech component.

Finally, they managed to panic themselves into silliness as a result of believing that they were surrounded and outmaneuvered by what mostly turned out to be mundane surface features.

This incident was truly instructive - a total breakdown of normal crew functioning (with excellent data and voice recording) without the unfortunate consequences that might attend a similar situation involving the actual flying of the aircraft.

If only crews could be encouraged to disclose and dissect such incidents in which there were no unfortunate consequences, we could learn a great deal about recognizing and preventing disorientation and crew interaction problems.

(ed. for spelling)

Loose rivets

6th Dec 2004, 05:28

Probably one of the most fascinating reports was by an Imperial Airways captain. He his crew and some passengers sighted objects, I think over the Atlantic. He was able to keep the main object in sight for some time and described ‘a feeling of well-being' while near these UFOs.

I saw an old black and white filmed interview of this pilot, and have a report a somewhere about this flight. If no other information is available I'll try to find the copy, though it won't be for a week or so unless I happen across it tonight..

brakedwell

6th Dec 2004, 07:04

Astra driver - Your star/planet would almost certainly have been Venus. That changes colour throughout the spectrum, especially when low on the horizon. It has been mistaken for a UFO by many people.

Northern_Driver

6th Dec 2004, 07:12

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

Come on and tell us about your experiences-would be nice to hear-knowing that radar guys know more than pilots;)

N_D

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

6th Dec 2004, 07:26

"...knowing that radar guys know more than pilots"

Did I say that?

Northern_Driver

6th Dec 2004, 07:32

Sorry did not mean that. I meant that normally atc(Radar)people see more whats happening in their airspace than the guys from the airplane-sorry about the confusion-my grammar:ugh:

N_D

frangatang

6th Dec 2004, 07:39

Flew with a capt some years back who had an uncle on stratocruisers.I think they were
en route jfk gander when they witnessed one of those cigars with other attendant whatever.It was reported,photographed,not detected by any radar such as it was then,
witnessed by passengers etc. It flew in parallel with the stratocruiser until fighters were sent to investigate,wherupon the scout vehicles disappeared into the cigar and
it disappeared at high speed. What was more intersesting was the crew being met at gander by some form of security (us l think) ,had the flight log confiscated,and sworn to keep quiet about what they had seen.
Als had another friend on a CL44 cargo flight (tradewinds?) over the mediterranean
in the region of majorca at night having to take evasive action from something huge in the sky. Aircraft in front and behind also witnessed it ,including a US hecules
that stated that whatever it was looked like and appeared to be the size of a nuclear submarine!
This friend was not a crank and was as cynical as most people. Probably shrugged his shoulders and carried on reading the sun..This thing was not a ballon etc cos it manouevred at a great rate and moved awy at high speed.

DerekWarrior1

6th Dec 2004, 09:07

Fascinating stuff Chaps. Undoubtedly a huge percentage of 'lights' in the sky are stars and planets, especially when viewed near the horizon 'cos of the 'slant angle' effect through the atmosphere which magnifies and distorts things as when the slant angle through haze makes viz poorer than when looking straight above you. The reports which really intrigue me are multiple sights of 'mother ships' such as cigar shaped objects. Surely these can't be optical illusions or mass hysteria? Where these objects come from is, of course, another question.

Del

Thunderball 2

6th Dec 2004, 12:28

What a pleasant surprise to find this subject being debated seriously on Prpune.

I was riding the jump seat on a CO DC10-30 LAX-IAH back in the early '80s, and I listened in on a 2 hour conversation about UFOs between the three operating crew - two of whom were ex-military. Believe me, they weren't talking about mis-idents of Venus! Enough material for a book...

Think worm-holes...... :ok:

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

6th Dec 2004, 12:45

To those who emailed me privately.. I will respond but with the lead up to Christmas it's difficult to find time to write everything down. Please be patient and I'll get back as soon as I can.

david viewing

6th Dec 2004, 13:36

As a youth fascinated by the idea that some of these stories might just be true, I spent countless hours on cold, windy hilltops watching the UFO 'believers' and hoping to see what they saw. This effort was completely successful: I witnessed many 'sightings'.

Of all the witnesses, two west country policeman are perhaps the most memorable: they had become quite famous after spending most of an evening chasing a mystery object that hovered in front of their patrol car, darting from side to side and sometimes approaching very close as they hurtled along at 90mph. I remember them being distinctly disenchanted when shown astronomical tables that placed Venus right in front of them on the straight bits of road.

These fine officers, and most other witnesses had fallen foul of two properties of the human eye:

Firstly, it's extreme sensitivity - the ability to easily see a 3W torch bulb suspended on a hill top 6 mi away for instance. Unfortunately, the eye is not calibrated, and a pin point source has an apparent brightness linked to the surrounding environment. That is how Venus can be described by witnesses as 'dazzling' and so on.

Secondly, once denied normal visual cues in low light situations, the eye can begin rapid involuntary movements. This makes distant light sources (eg stars, planets, satellites and aircraft) appear to 'dart' about the sky.

Just note how many UFO stories involve 'dazzling' objects that 'dart' about!

I am not suggesting that all sightings can be explained in this way. But very many can. And there are important lessons for professional observers like Pilots and Policemen. The eye can certainly deceive and the more 'expert' the witness, the more extreme the mis-interpretation of visual cues can become. That's just because we all share the same physiology and no amount of training can change that, whatever any given individual might think.

PS

I never really gave up on the UFO idea. The astonishing and continuing discovery of hundreds of extra-solar planets in the last few years gives the whole subject new momentum. But 'investigating' the anecdotes of witnesses is a hard road that rapidly becomes impassible if any kind of objective test is applied to the data. The subject was IMHO best discussed many years ago by Prof RV Jones, the man who 'discovered' the V2 rocket. His account is here (http://ncas.sawco.com/condon/text/appndx-v.htm).

itchy kitchin

6th Dec 2004, 16:49

Very good to see the subject being discussed seriously.

I used to live in Pembrokeshire as a teenager and there was a rash of sightings (1990-91) when they were building this "over the horizon radar" near Brawdy and St. Davids. My Dad spotted "our" UFO first- Our kitchen window looked out across the valley towards Haverfordwest and he called me to witness what he saw. Let me say that it cured any scepticism I may have had instantly. Time of day was mid to late afternoon, scattered fairweather Cu approx 2500' and this thing went over LOW and Slow. It was an orange sphere with the luminescence of a zebra crossing light except not flashing. It was difficult to estimate size, except to say that it looked BIG! (maybe between 50-100yds across?) Orbiting it were a number of different coloured lights. This thing proceeded across the valley and hung there on the opposite hillside for about 2-3 minutes (which, believe me, seemed like a lot longer!) before literally vanishing.

Both myself and my father agreed that we had not seen anything like it before, but we were not going to report it. I think there was a couple of column inches in the local paper a few days later, but very little else.

What was very wierd (i don't know if it was related) was that only 2 or 3 nights later, we had BALL LIGHTNING in the house. Blew every bulb and tripped all the fuses on the box.

All in all, very wierd.

John Farley

6th Dec 2004, 18:24

As several have commented it is a nice change to see a sensible debate.

I have seen two things while aviating that I could not identify or explain at the time. One in 1963 was at height over the Boscombe area and looked like a very high level dot of an aircraft that exploded as I was looking at it. (I was at 40k and it was way above me) after which I saw debris falling on my port side. The other passed beneath me in 1954. I first saw it out on the starb side, it tracked under our RAE Lincoln and reappeared out the port side (we were about 12k) I shouted as I moved to look out the port side but nobody else in the crew saw it. I couldn’t guess how far it was below us because I didn’t know the size … but since it took a mo to appear out the other side I suspect it was fairly well below. We were over West Freugh range and dropping prototype cluster bombs from height. Range radar was calling the release. They saw nothing.

I reported both events. Both were investigated by ATC. The first was explained as the bursting of a high altitude trials balloon from Larkhill at approx 90k. The debris I saw was thought to be part of an instrumentation package.

Nobody had anything to offer regarding the West Freugh event, despite it getting people’s attention from a range safety standpoint. The shape of what I saw was best described as the front view of a Vulcan if you remove the fin. Or, if you prefer, a sphere with a couple of cones out either side where the base diameter of the cones was say 90% of the diameter of the sphere. The tips of the cones were slightly rounded. It was of uniform dark colour with no details visible, travelling one cone tip first. IF my impression that is was well below us was correct it must have been doing say 250 kts. It was broad daylight. I had my leg pulled a bit by some in the mess (we were visitors for a couple of days) but not by those in the crew who knew me.

Shropshire Lad

6th Dec 2004, 19:17

An interesting subject I've been following for many years - it's also interesting to look at man made aircraft as potential UFO's. I revisited a book I bought in the 90s which had a description of a UFO looking like nothing the witness had ever seen flying through a valley in a remote part of the UK. She gave a very good description right down to the "alien" in the front. Reading the book again it was an almost exact description of the F117 Stealth bomber (right down to the position of the pilot) Maybe a clandestine testing mission?

Have seen a few strange things in the air - 2 stand out in particular - one in the australian outback near Pine Gap (a very bright light plummeting to the ground then reversing and shooting upwards at an angle) and one (bizarrely) at an airshow at RAF Valley which was witnessed by quite a few other people as well. The first I had no explanation for - the second was a large disk moving through clouds - my guess was a conventional airliner reflecting ice crystals (but i don't know if this would lead to it appearing as a disk)

DerekWarrior1

6th Dec 2004, 19:23

John (Farley), This will sound terribly sycophantic but I can't tell you how thrilled this low achieving but very enthusiastic aviator is that one of his all - time heros has responded to his post !

Re your post; from your perspective, were those wing tips rounded up, down or just rounded (if that makes sense)?

Del

John Farley

6th Dec 2004, 22:05

Sorry Del

It appears my description was not adequate. Take the front view of a Vulcan, remove the fin and give what you see on the paper a circular cross section turning the front view of the 'Vulcan' into a pair of cones with a sphere in the centrs. It had no wings and it was travelling with the tip of one cone first, then the sphere then the trailing cone. Sorry it was not exactly cigar shape - but close!

JF

DerekWarrior1

6th Dec 2004, 23:33

JF, These are the sort of observations which I find the most interesting because (a) they are by a reliable witness whose credentials are beyond reproach and (b) they are more substantial than just 'lights' which are always suspect for the reasons discussed earlier. Out of interest, during your many flights around the Boscombe Down area did you ever spot any crop circles and what are your thoughts on that subject. I find it difficult to accept that they are all hoaxes. Some of the more spectacular examples are so complex and would have involved so much work and time that I feel it's inevitable that word would have leaked out from the conspirators. I seem to remember about ten years or so ago there was an appeal by the CAA or perhaps one of the ministries to PPLs to keep an eye open for them and, if possible, take pictures and so at least someone was taking them seriously!

Del

Inverted81

7th Dec 2004, 00:04

Fascinating topic all
I'm training as an ATCO at the moment and i am intrigued as to why so many of these objects mentioned have not shown up on radar. Are we looking at stealth technology perhaps, or maybe something not known as of yet?
Has anyone also got any pics taken from flightdeck windows??

As an aside my parents have also reported seeing a long cigar shaped object in the sky . apparently it appeared, then slowed down to a very slow speed for a few mins then sped off leaving the obligatory hazy trail behind. i have since spoken to a couple of other people who also saw the same thing from a different town that same evening. BTW this was at night and the object was "glowing orangey"
CF

John Farley

7th Dec 2004, 08:45

Sorry Del. No crop circles - which I think are in a very different category from things one sees in the sky and cannot identify....

LastCall

10th Dec 2004, 06:12

Derek

If you want a facinating and VERY thought-provoking read, then try this:

The DAY AFTER ROSWELL
by Philip Corso, William J. Birnes "

I read it several years ago and coulldn't put it down. It's well-written by someone with a high US military clearance, who claims he was there and was a lead figure in the investigation.

In short, he claims it was all true, and goes into great detail listing and describing all the inventions that we have seen since and as a result of reverse engineering of what they found.

A truly facinating read. If you do a GOOGLE search you will find it.

Cheers....LC

DerekWarrior1

10th Dec 2004, 13:56

cheers LC, Will do that, many thanks, Del

rotornut

10th Dec 2004, 14:37

On a summer evening in about 1976 my friend and I were camped on the western shore of Georgian Bay, part of the Great Lakes. It was a beautiful evening and as we looked across the bay to the east we saw a very bright white light. It was not possible to estimate exactly how far away it was but I would guess 10 or 15 miles.

At first I thought it was a helicopter with its cabin illuminated. However when it started accelerating at a very high rate and then stopping almost immediately we realised it was something else. It hovered and then seemed to come toward us, which was a bit disconcerting. Fortunately it changed direction and continued with these starting and stopping manoeuvres for a few more minutes. Next day we heard on the radio that there had been a lot of UFO sightings in our area the previous evening.

Shropshire Lad

10th Dec 2004, 18:18

If you want a good read on the subject anything by Timothy Good is er.. good! Not sure about the Day after Roswell - I think it threw up more questions than answers.

chiglet

10th Dec 2004, 19:10

Yonks ago, I was RHS in a PAZT from Luton to Liverpool. Just nort of LIC @3500 I saw a very bright light waverimg between my 11-12 o'clock. After 15-20 seconds, said light went from 12 o'clock to my left, and vanished in less than 5 secs.
Convesation...
Me .......... few secs later
P1 "Errm, can you see what I see?"
Me "That bright light?"
P1 "Yep, I thought that I was seeing things"
At this point, the light/object went left.
Me "It's probably the landing lights on an inbound into Manch or Liverpool"
P1 "OK"
Subsequent checks revealed no a/c inbound to either a/f +/- 45 mins of said sighting
watp,iktch

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

11th Dec 2004, 16:02

<<If you want a good read on the subject anything by Timothy Good is er.. good! >>

I used to read TG... but he seems to have disappeared from the scene and none of his "forecasts" came true.. It's happened with many books I've read... I read that "Gulf Breeze" was a fix... and the Rendlesham Forest episode seems to have been discredited.

Shropshire Lad

11th Dec 2004, 16:11

Actually I think Georgina Bruni does a good analysis of the Rendlesham Forest episode in "You can't tell the people" . I've never subscribed to the lighthouse theory most people try and discredit it with as there were too many other happenings reported by others at the same time as the sighting.

Nick Pope is another interesting author - brought to light the incident at RAF Shawbury in the 90's - I was only a few miles from there at the time (and saw nthing!) but I spoke to him about it briefly at a book signing and he gave me the impression there was something bubbling under about this episode :eek:

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

11th Dec 2004, 17:47

A spromised, I have put togethre some notes on my (limited) experience of UFOs.. To those who may be hoping for something scary at Heathrow... sorry, the incidents were too quick to be really scary.

UFO Notes (http://members.aol.com/heathrowdirector)

Farrell

11th Dec 2004, 18:14

Thanks for taking the time to post your experiences HD. :ok:

DerekWarrior1

12th Dec 2004, 09:29

Thanks HD - very interesting stuff.

Del

Squadgy

12th Dec 2004, 20:04

Thanks for taking the time to write those up HD. The first experience you mention in North Africa certainly is weird !

Shropshire Lad

12th Dec 2004, 20:37

Very interesting stuff! Your account of Incicdent 8 is very similar to something I witnessed over Newcastle during the summer - which was unusual to say the least!

pilotwolf

12th Dec 2004, 20:58

Not had any UFO experiences - yet. But have a ghost in my house and serveral incidents in my old house which belonged to my grandparents.... but get that 'yeah right!' grin/smirk if I tell people.

Think a lot of people are in a similar situation... not sure whether to believe but DON'T disbelieve....

Can't believe that earth is only inhabited planet in the universe...

Go back 150 yrs and who would have believed we'd have aircraft or computers...

PW

4play

12th Dec 2004, 22:39

Can't believe that earth is only inhabited planet in the universe...

Exactly wolfie,

How narrow minded to think we are the only beings to inhabit the never ending universe.

Just because we cannot see other life forms does not mean they do not exist.
We are in the 3rd dimension (thick and dense) there are many many others who inhabit higher dimensions that vibrate at a faster rate, therefore invisible to our earthly sight.
It is only when those who visit us lower their vibration that we can physically see them.

You will have all the proof you want when you finally pass over into a higher vibration and leave the body behind (death)
Nothing to worry about, you have done it many times before!
As they say in the classics...You'll be back.
:ooh: :ooh: :ooh: thats a whole new subject.

Think outside the square

duir

12th Dec 2004, 23:00

Several years ago I witnessed several interesting lights at fairly low level over the Industial Areas of Teeside at night time. The lights were fixed Blueish White. One after another about 6 single lights flew from Teeside to overhead my appartment(3 floors up) at a place called Marske by the sea and then on to a place called Saltburn. Here they, in single file turned around and reversed their route back to Teeside. The lights were single with no other lights present and most strangely of all there was absolutely no sound whatsoever, even though the objects were directly overhead and low level???

five iron

13th Dec 2004, 10:43

All very good accounts

You seem very convinced, and as an aviation professional, that must give the sceptics something to think about

Cheers

tom775257

13th Dec 2004, 11:51

This is a strange one, saw the link on another site:

Aircraft hits unknown object in flight (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20021029X05400&ntsbno=ATL03FA008&akey=1)

wiggy

14th Dec 2004, 09:01

Middle of the night ( of course), flying SIN-UK five years ago, near Aralsk and admiring the numerous flares from the gas/oil fields. Suddenly one of these "flares" begins, ever so slowly, to apparently move upwards into the sky........ here I am, 25 years of Aviation, keen amateur astronomer and definite non-believer, wondering if this is my first "UFO" ........up the flare goes, gaining speed and beginning to drift to the right. Then the penny dropped, it was Russian rocket launch...we watched this thing for about 5-10 miniutes, including staging, as it hammered off past our three O'Clock and off horizontally across the NE horizon. We later reckoned we were within 150 km of the launch site but never a squeak from ATC - plenty of air to air chat though
From the web the next day found out it was a Soyuz booster launching an unmanned payload.
Goes to show there's always something out there that can take you by surprise, but in this case it wasn't LGM

Fg Off Max Stout

14th Dec 2004, 17:24

Shropshire Lad,

what was the Shawbury incident? I spent a couple of years there and have never heard of it.

Stout

cwatters

14th Dec 2004, 18:04

This is a strange one, saw the link on another site:

Facinating reading. Red transfer marks all over the front of the plane and the've no idea what it hit. I'm slightly surprised they gave up so easily on trying to match the paint. They simply say something like... it doesn't match the samples we were given to compare with. How many companies make red paint for aircraft use?

Shropshire Lad

14th Dec 2004, 19:39

what was the Shawbury incident? I spent a couple of years there and have never heard of it

Apparently a Met Officer in the early 90's was on duty at RAF Shawbury in the early hours of the morning and saw a large disk shaped object (I think the description of size was about 747 size) drifting across the countryside shooting what appeared to be a laser towards the ground. I haven't got Nick Pope's book with me but from what I recall it moved very slowly in the vicinity of Shawbury then shot off towards the south. It was also seen over Cosford by someone on guard duty and reported independently. Nick Pope got the official report beng the civil servant on the 'UFO desk' and as I say seems to think it quite a significant sighting.

If I remember correctly Shawbury also featured in one of Jenny Randles books as she was told about strange radar traces when she gave a talk there.

I've seen a few unusual things in my time but - having lived 8 miles from Shawbury for a number of years - never anything there!!

daina

15th Dec 2004, 19:20

Thomas Preziose's sister Moira has a web site at:

caravancrash.com (http://www.caravancrash.com)

It includes the entire NTSB docket. Several of the photographs of the "red transfer marks" are striking and difficult to explain.

The marks are not paint, by the way. The analysis indicates phthalate-based polymers - more likely from some sort of coating on a composite.

One theory is that N76U experienced wake turbulence from the crossing DC-10, however, this cargo aircraft was empty and in level flight, and the time of the accident may preclude a wake encounter. More importantly, the wake theory does not account for the transfer marks - though the NTSB now seems to be backpedalling by exploring the possibility that the marks came from somewhere inside the accident aircraft.

The other theory, explored in excruciating detail by a poster on the caravancrash.com forum, is that a third aircraft, possibly a rotorcraft, was travelling north, opposite to the DC-10's course, and encountered the Caravan in midair. Composite construction and the lack of a transponder may explain why ATC was unaware of this traffic, however, the poster probably does not explain the absence of wreckage from this aircraft or why it was not reported missing. Perhaps it was a drug plane or a homebuilder out for a non-FAA-sanctioned joyride (in IMC, at night), but neither is really a satisfactory explanation.

The military drone, UAV, high-tech black project hypothesis has been denied by the relevant authorities and, in truth, it seems unlikely. Drones surely show up on radar (isn't that the idea?) and it is difficult to imagine the military risking an expensive prototype by flying it at night in IMC on a victor airway near a (sort-of) busy airport.

So, do LGM use phthalate polymers in their scout craft?

Loose rivets

20th Dec 2004, 06:16

I have come across my copy of the "The Centaurus Incident" Sorry to be in haste. just snippits

June 29 1954 Labrador Capt James Howard and it says a BOAC Centaurus Boeing Stratocruiser – though i could have sworn that the Beeb interview said Imperial Airways — but it was years ago. Idlewild to London 9:05 pm F/O Lee Boyd

One big lighted object - with six smaller ones in attendance. 8 crew and 14 pax saw object change shape — size of an ocean liner

Navigator George Allen watched closely the whole time said " it looked as though they went inside the big one"

Sound familiar?

joemcg

20th Dec 2004, 10:19

I am sorry to say, but this forum has been infested by one of the more extreme UFO organisations, the UK Forum for Disclosure (UKFFD). If you take a look at their website, you will see what I mean by extreme - they believe just about every conspiracy theory going, including the JFK assasination, free energy devices, the moon landings having been hoaxed, and US Government complicity in the 9/11 attack for instance. If you take a look at their web site, http://www.ukffd.org/index.html , you will see what I mean.

At least one of their "representatives" is prominent in a British based UFO cult, the "Aetherius Society", though this individual has kept a low profile recently. Some of the content of the presentations mounted by the UKFFD or UKDP (UK Disclosure project as it has been called) is similar to Aetherian dogma.

Believe it or not, there is a more balanced and rational side to ufology. I administer a mail-list for people interested in UK ufology. We currently have over 800 registered members, including accomplished UK authors, researchers, and investigators of the topic. For those who haven't been put off by the antics of extreme groups such as the UKFFD and the "Disclosure Project", you might be interested in taking an active or passive part in the mail list. If so, you can register (free) at:

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/ufologyinuk

Please note that these groups like the UKFFD and the Aetherius Society are not regarded as mainstream by serious ufologists, but are on the fringes of the fringe!.

Regards,
Joe McGonagle

compressor stall

20th Dec 2004, 11:10

Interesting occurances Heathrow director. Certainly many unidentified objects.

There is a good chance that numbers 3 and 4 could be Venus - often quite visible in broad daylight high overhead, and lookslike a wx balloon. I know cos I saw the shiny object as you described and it took me a while to ascertain what it was.

As for the others, well who knows! :suspect:

joemcg

20th Dec 2004, 12:28

I see that most of the conspiracy stuff has been taken off the UKFFD site, but you can see the kind of beliefs that they hold at the personal website of one of their "representatives", Dean Rose at:

http://www.newrevolution.bravehost.com/index.html

Joe

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

20th Dec 2004, 12:48

<<There is a good chance that numbers 3 and 4 could be Venus - often quite visible in broad daylight high overhead, and lookslike a wx balloon. I know cos I saw the shiny object as you described and it took me a while to ascertain what it was.>>

Many thanks for the feedback CT. Unfortunately it wasn't Venus, which at the time was much lower in the western sky. The object we saw was virtually overhead - just a little northeast - to start and it gradually moved eastward. Venus would move towards the northwest, getting lower, so it was in a wholly different area of the sky.

Pielander

16th Jan 2005, 22:37

One thing I find striking about some of these reports of objects moving at incredible speeds is that there never seem to be any reports of an associated sonic boom. If there were, then it would certainly add a further dimension of credibility to some of the witness statements; however, I fear that the converse is also true, in that an eyewitness account of a supersonic object seems less credible without an accompanying boom.

FreedomFighter1in6B

18th Jan 2005, 16:54

Hia people,

In defense of the statement that has been made by Joe Mcgonogal (professional debunker,) I just wish to say that the Disclosure Project and UKFFD is in no way a ufo cult, nor are we realted to Aetherius or any other group of individuals. My personal belief of US government involvement in 9-11 has nothing to do with the work I am doing on disclosing the truth of ufos/ETI.

We can present evidence and we have presented some of this to Joe. He doesn't accept our evidence as valid. We do, and we can explain why, to anyone who is willing to listen to us. We believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion - including Joe. We try to base all that we say on evidence and testimony. Contact us to see copies of this evidence. Only when people are presented with the evidence can they make an informed decision.

Feel free to check our website and :

1) Find links to the Aetherius Society (there aren't any). The person he is referring to I believe is Ananda Sirisena who is NOT involved with UKFFD, and never has been.
2) Check the reference and links to statements by Edgar Mitchell and Gordon cooper (both former astronauts)
3) Read through the other pages and check facts.

You can then come to a judgement as to the validity, or relevance of Joe M's post

I don't wish to drag this forum into any childish slugging matches, but I feel Joe has wantonly slandered and lied about myself and my friends and colleagues to promote his own cause. Our disagreement should have remained between Joe and myself, which arose from me previously being on his group, and us disagreeing on certain views. He has chosen to grind his axe in public, and so I apologise for it being in this forum.

I will not write again rergarding this issue whatever is said, as I do not wish to undermine such a legitimate issue.

Love and Light

Dean Rose

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

18th Jan 2005, 17:07

Pielander. An object with which I was involved was seen clearly with naked eyes and tracked on radar at immensely high speed but no sound was heard, neither from any propulsion unit nor sonic boom. If these entities can fly fast without making a sound then as sure as God made little green apples they could surely avoid making sonic booms.

Goeth

21st Jan 2005, 00:02

Some footage:Need Quick-Time to view

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/a1999/feb/timnw.mpeg
Cigare shaped UFO

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/videoclips/sts48b.mpeg
NASA footage of UFO;S

UFO footage from STS-48 mission again, taken aboard the Space Shuttle Discovery in September 1991. A dramatic piece of shuttle footage. Several UFOs are seen moving about the atmosphere at great speed and what appears to be weapons fire, is seemingly directed toward them. One even appears to be hit in some of the better generation video tapes of this event. Is this a secret Star Wars test? Check out this excellent footage!

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/videoclips/sts80.mpeg

NASA footage from the space shuttle Columbia during mission STS-80 above the Earth during a thunderstorm.Day 13 of the Mission on December the 1st 1996. There are well over a dozen or more "unknown" objects in this video, objects that don't appear to be city lights, stars, or satellites. There's also over a dozen objects that streak by the camera.There is one very predominant object in the video that is the "main object" of the video as others appear to come and go. Objects can be seen cruising below the clouds, rising up from the clouds, spheres of light changing shape and color, streaks or "rods" of light cruising very close by the camera, UFOs traveling thousands of MPH in orbit, objects entering the Earth's atmosphere from deep space. It is all most bizarre and NASA have kept pretty quiet about the whole thing. This is the whole video of the event!

8 8

oncemorealoft

21st Jan 2005, 09:54

Yes, they are definitely UFO's, though a bit of research on the web and reference to some fairly recent TV documentaries will provide some plausible, if mundane, explanations of what is being seen on the NASA clips.

The cigar shaped object? Very difficult to discern what it may be without any background information, visual reference points and with such a low-resolution clip ... a fragment of a momentary condensation trail may be?

Quite how any evidence contained within such clips can be used by many little green men protagonists to claim we're being visited by extra terrestrials beats me.

If you think of the number of eyes, cameras, radar scopes etc. trained on the skies at any given time is it not amazing that these sort of clips are the best that can be put forward?

I've seen a few 'Unidentified Flying Objects' in the strictest terms but I've never seen anything that might lead me to think it was something 'out of this world' much as my Trekkie fantasies would love me to!

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

21st Jan 2005, 10:58

<<I've seen a few 'Unidentified Flying Objects' in the strictest terms but I've never seen anything that might lead me to think it was something 'out of this world' much as my Trekkie fantasies would love me to!>>

Me ditto! I am a UFO enthusiast but over the last 50 years (ie the period of my interest) I have not seen one single photograph or piece of video of a UFO which comes close to being of good quality.

FreedomFighter1in6B

21st Jan 2005, 12:29

There are numerous reports that would strongly suggest that ufos are not of human origin, such as military sightings of craft disabling ICBMs, both in the ground and in space, outmaneuvring every known aeroplane we have and even missiles. Uri Gagharin for example - on his first trip into space said he saw ufos there. A Disclosure Project witness came forward last year (he was a scientist at NASA) responsible for the images received from the Cassini-Huygens probe - he said he was being ordered to suppress images of ufos near Saturn.

Gordon Cooper (the Apollo astronaut and military pilot) spoke openly about many sightings of craft not in any military arsenal and also of agents who came and took the evidence away.

WB Smith in the 50's knew back then the uaps (ufos) were FAR more advanced than anything we had then or have now. The 4 officers whose job it was to retract the first statement made by the military in 1947 that the Roswell crash (originally a flying saucer - two hours later a weather balloon) have now come forward since their retirement as they are no longer restricted by silence, and have said they were told to lie - it really was a saucer shaped craft with non-human entities inside.

There are stories of reverse engineering these craft to create stealth technology, zero-point over unity energy sources (like Tesla's inventions) and anti gravity technology. Black triangles, silent helicopters and the so-called Aurora are examples of this.

Like everything surrounding this issue it is down to the value of human testimony. It raises the question : are we as a race going to go on calling people who have seen these things liars forever? And if so does that reflect the validity of their story or more importantly the level to which we are willing to realise our place in the universe and the truth of our preconceptions? It is the structure of the world leadership that keeps all this hidden from collective human consciousness but we are slowly starting to come round. Look at the riots at Bush's inauguration for example.

Now as for the NASA ufos - are we surprised that give a mundane explanation for them? After 50 years of a cover up? Do not be so quick to believe official explanations. They are mainly disinformation. What NASA didnt tell you was that the UFOs filmed at the tether were only visible in Ultra-Violet (beyond the crossing point of light) and they were estimated to be 3 miles across!! The shape of the craft were round with a black hole in the middle and a V-shaped notch out of one side - rotating counter clockwise. Now identical shapes have been found dating back to ancient Sumatran times with wooden carvings of the same thing with ancinet stories of visitors for the sky.

Also remember the 11 ufos captured on Infra Red (beyond the crossing point of light) by cameras on military planes in May 2004. The story here goes - the US caught movements on radar over the border between Mexico and the USA. The US had no planes in the vacinity to get there in time to check it out. They instructed the Mexican air force to intercept as they suspected private planes smuggling drugs over the border. When the Mexican military pilots arived on the scene they could see nothing with their eyes but picked them up on radar. They switched on IR cameras and hey presto the craft showed up. 11 flying in formation. After a while the ufos changed direction and surrounded the persuing fighter jet. The authorities were instucted by the US not to disclose this info but the Mexican gov't decided they would. It made big news, and I still have the clips on my pc. I can send this clip to anyone who asks.

Russia had a massive covert ufo investigation going for years, the info from which is now available since the fall of the USSR.

If anyone would like to see some very profound witness testimony I recommend checking the testimony section of www.disclosureproject.org The only thing stopping disclosure now is the lack of unified efforts of earths people to get it disclosed. The Illuminati world leadership structure controls every facet of the clockwork system of "life" including the media that defines popular consciousness. There are hundreds of sightings every month - none are reported on the big news - even when top ranking military, police or pilot witnesses are invovled. Why? I can also answer this but only if asked - this reply is long winded enough. But by all means please check out any fact I have stated for yourself, check its authenticity and draw your own conclusions. All I can do is show you - I cannot make you look.

Heathrow Director - are you familiar with www.skywatch-international.org - you can keep up to date with all the latest sightings around the world. There are dozens every week.

Love and Light

Dean Rose

oncemorealoft

21st Jan 2005, 13:12

"The Illuminati world leadership structure controls every facet of the clockwork system of "life" including the media that defines popular consciousness." :rolleyes:

Time for Jet Blast me thinks...:E

EGLD

21st Jan 2005, 16:33

There are stories of reverse engineering these craft to create stealth technology

Stealth technology is based on physics/equations/scientific facts

No reverse engineering of UFOs required

Shropshire Lad

23rd Jan 2005, 17:46

Having also been interested in UFO's for a number of years I think that the number of sightings that could come close to being considered "alien" could be counted on the fingers of one hand - and then probably further research could disprove them.

ones with multiple witnesses (like the Hopkinsville sightings) or photos such as the McMinville photos (sorry about the spelling) could be considered but i can't really think of any others.

I'm quite interested in the ones (such as Rendlesham Forest) which started off as UFO sightinigs but i think hide some much more intriguing mysteries.........

wrxflame

31st Jan 2005, 02:02

I love a good UFO discussion, although some recent posts are sending this thread South 8-(

I started young with my interest sparked by the following event. Since then I have always had an interest if not active. It's funny how as I get older I just shrug my shoulders and think that I will probably never know and simply adjust to that where as a younger lad I was desperate to understand.

When I was traveling across the Scottish Highlands with my parents (I was 9 at the time) we all saw an unusual light, it was pitch black out there and easy to spot. My dad was in the RAF and thought is was just a helicopter hovering about 100 feet off the ground. Well we watched it for a while and then it started to climb in what I would describe as a step movement (up the along, up the along) and then it shot up at a slight angle and away at an incredible rate to be out of sight in moments!

Well Dad said that was no helicopter...

We all remember it to this day and that was 27 years ago for me.

I'm not saying it was a extraterrestrial craft, I just know of no craft man made that could perform such a maneuver at that speed.....assuming it was something physical that is.

I have asked a few people over the years about unusual sightings and it's interesting home many stories are told when they know I'm not going to ridicule them.

My Father-in-law does not even like watching si-fi stuff and has not time for such weird and wonderful stuff as he says to me "son, can it make me any money?" then I'm not interested. Well that same person told me after a few drinks that he saw something crazy when he woke one evening at around 3am and happened to look out his upstairs window towards the ocean. He said it was a bright blue light that he watched hover over the ocean at about 45 deg then to his amazement it moved a high speed away to the west and was gone over the horizon in moments. Freaked him out. He still won't waste his time with it though.

So there are a couple of little stories that don't prove anything other than some weird stuff goes on in the wonderful world of ours.

wrxflame

3rd Feb 2005, 03:46

==BUMP==

My last post didn't bump the UFO discussion so trying again.

FreedomFighter1in6B

14th Feb 2005, 09:37

Hia everyone,

Just an update about our progress at www.ukffd.org (www.disclosureproject.org) : we now have four P Pilot witnesses who have allowed us to use testimony of their encounters, and I thank each one of them for their kind help. We are also in the process of acquiring military witness testimony, and would welcome any further pilots from this forum to contact us.

Meanwhile - I thought you chaps might be interested in a few of these :

http://www.micom.net/oops/

Love and Light

Dean R

joemcg

20th Feb 2005, 20:54

In his last post, Dean wrote:

"Just an update about our progress at www.ukffd.org (www.disclosureproject.org) : "

In an earlier post, he wrote:

"1) Find links to the Aetherius Society (there aren't any). The person he is referring to I believe is Ananda Sirisena who is NOT involved with UKFFD, and never has been. "

Yet at:

http://www.disclosureproject.org/Events.htm#RepEvents

Is the following entry:

"Date/Time
Sunday, 17 April 2005, 2-5 pm &
Saturday 11 June 2005, 2-5 pm

Description

Disclosure Project representative Ananda Sirisena will be speaking at and showing portions of the National Press Club tape at the UFO Contacts Seminar.

Venue: Inner Potential Centre, 36 Kelvedon Road, Fulham "

So, Dean, how do you reconcile the evident link between the Disclosure Project, UKFFD, and Ananda Siresena, who you are so anxious to disassociate with?

Regards,
Joe (Not a professional debunker, just armed with a little common sense) McGonagle

FreedomFighter1in6B

23rd Feb 2005, 14:44

Yes thanks for that Joe,

Ananda is a rep for www.disclosureproject.org and apart from that he is entitled to his own beliefs. You wouldnt deny a member of ufologyuk their religion would you?

Just to clarify what Aetherius is, here is a link :

http://www.aetherius.org/

He might even be right in this way of thinking for all I know, I dont know I havent looked into it. As for www.ukffd.org which is what I was talking about, he is not involved with this. This is run by myself and Andrew Johnson of Derby, and we take a truthful and unbiased approach to witnesses who come forward with sightings of UAP.

We now have had three witnesses come forward from Pprune, and I thank them greatly for their openness and non-fear of ridicule. Their testimony is available at our site above. I am now looking into witnesses in other professions, equally as respectable as the Pilot profession. They will become available to view as they are found. I encourage all to come forward with the truth. The world attitude is changing, and this is evident from the US mainstream news program ABCs program due to be aired tomorrow (24th feb.) The truth is going to come out more and more, and everyone who wishes to be part of that is encouraged to come forward. For example, Gary Heseltine has the biggest mutual group of Police ufo witnesses in the UK. All of these people are important. Someone in the military, emergency services, aviation, government is much more likely to be believed by the general public, due to the high degree of responsibilty and trust that accompanies their profession.

Good to see you are in good health and high spirits Joe. Write me any time - Id prefer you did it privately (you still have my email address) as these issues are likely to be frowned upon by Pprune admin by being debated here.

Respectfully

Dean Rose

joemcg

23rd Feb 2005, 17:20

I am in a rush at the moment, I do have other things to say, but I think it is interesting to note the edits that you made to your last post:

1. Ananda has changed gender from female to male. I hope he is happy with his gender re-assignment.

2. Dean Heseltine has changed back to his real name "Gary".

3. You have dropped the word "scientific" from the phrase "we take a truthful and unbiased approach" in recognition that your approach is far from scientific (or even rational as far as I can tell).

Obviously accuracy is just an afterthought as far as your activities are concerned. There may be other changes which I haven't noticed yet, but I'm sure people get my drift.

Joe

joemcg

25th Feb 2005, 03:43

Well, Dean has emailed me off-list, stating that he would not be responding to any further posts from me in a public forum. It's a pity, I'm sure that some of you would like to know the exact nature of the relationship between the Disclosure Project (DP) and UKFFD, how it is that the DP appears to be competing with the UKFFD in the UK (unless of course Ananda Sirisena is closer to the UKFFD than Dean would have you believe).

For the record, my beef with the UKFFD is that it is likely to _set_back_ any serious interest from the scientific and government communities by at least ten years, due to their total lack of objectivity and their association with the DP (which has been known to charge people hundreds of dollars to flash powerful lamps at stars in an effort to establish communication with "Extraterrestrial Intelligence" (ETI)). At first, I suggested ways in which they might court more sympathetic responses from the media/government/science, but finally gave up and decided that if they were going to wreck any possibility of serious treatment of the subject, then I would actively attempt to expose their weaknesses.

My personal perspective is that people do see and experience unusual things associated with UFOs. I do not totally reject the notion that some might be related to extraterrestrial activity, though I do think it unlikely. As far as military cover-ups in the UK are concerned, they have over the years actively played-down any unusual aspects of the phenomenon, but they seem to know less about UFOs than the more objective and experienced ufologists do.

That leads me on to another pet topic of ufology. Unlike pilots, there is no certification scheme for ufology. This means that anyone can call themselves an ufologist, even if they are clearly off their rocker, or have the analytical skills of a lemming. Imagine the situation if people didn't need to pass exams or carry out training before they can fly an aircraft - well, that's the situation that ufology is in today.

I have read the sighting reports in this thread with interest. I shall be contacting some of you privately, though unfortunately I don't have sufficient time to follow up each and every report. I have more information about some of the reports which I have seen on this forum, and as I get time, I shall try to post the details here.

As an example of the hype that prevails on the internet, there is some fascinating footage from 1966, billed as "TOP SECRET - UFO sighting from plane (England, 1966)". It is very impressive, and it made the news at the time. It can be viewed at:

http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/ufosightingfromplaneuk1966.mpeg

It might also amuse you to visit some of the other rubbish at the site, but make sure that you disable all nearby BS detectors, or you will be deafened!

For the real story of this "TOP SECRET" sighting, visit:

http://magonia.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/mbapr66.htm

and:

http://magonia.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/mbjun66.htm

There are however some excellent sites about UFOs. Here are a few links to whet your appetite:

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk

http://magonia.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/

http://www.ufology.org.uk/

http://www.project1947.com/

http://www.parcellular.fsnet.co.uk/Lakenheath.htm

http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/

You will find them a lot more objective and interesting than some of the other links that have been put forward on this thread.

Finally, I would like to plug an email list which I administer for people interested in UK ufology. We have over 900 registered members, including some well-known British researchers, authors, and investigators. If you really are interested, you can register (free) at:

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/ufologyinuk

Regards,

Joe

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

22nd Mar 2005, 10:06

Here's one for extreme loonies:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5567689023&fromMakeTrack=true

FreedomFighter1in6B

1st May 2005, 22:02

Greetings everyone,

Hope everyone is well, and I apologise in advance unless thispost gets deleted - but I can bite my teeth no longer. I am a ufologist, that does not make me a nerd, on the contrary. Joe McGonagol likes to play games and manipulate truths into his games - thats called propeganda. I refused from the start to play his games and hes insisted on trying to drag me into them - I only have one thing to say to Joe and thats no one takes for a fool - call me unprofessional I dont care, whenever I have the misfortune of meeting you I am going to knock you out - got it. End of story. Thats a promise.

Just in case this paints me in a bad light with any flying folk you can get a better idea of who I am here if you choose to look :

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/starboundchemistry.htm

Its just like Joe to register with that site now and start playing his games there mark my words.

Regards

Dean (the shady occultist - PS If anyone would like to spend £500 I have a torch you can shine at the sky)

joemcg

1st May 2005, 23:15

Oh dear....

We finally see Dean in his true colours...
Hardly in keeping with his blatherings about fighting oppression, campaigning for freedom, or opposition to violence.

Actually, his other site at:

http://www.newrevolution.bravehost.com/

makes far more interesting reading than the one he just posted.

Dean, I don't know what you have been imbibing, but you really shouldn't go near a keyboard if you are indulging in anything alchoholic or hallucogenic....

I look forward to our first meeting (I shall be at the LAPIS conference in St. Annes on June the 18th - details can be found at http://www.spiuk.net/other_events/lapis_2005.htm).

Regards,
Joe

FreedomFighter1in6B

2nd May 2005, 10:26

Whatever

If anyone would like to judge for themselves what Disclosure Project is about best not to listen to any words exchanged between me and Joe (this is purely personal) - if you would like to what what DP is about then best to listen to the man himself - Here is the latest interview with Dr Greer on a US radio station - please click here - is a very interesting listen :

http://www.charlesgoyette.com/archive/media/2005-04-21-Charles-03.mp3

Kind Regards

SLFguy

16th Oct 2005, 16:37

Ok......who won?

joemcg

16th Oct 2005, 16:43

Surprise, surprise, it was a no-show and I won by default!
:D

Joe :ouch:

FreedomFighter1in6B

19th Oct 2005, 08:50

Firstly I found this forum before you - you followed me here. Again.

Second if you really wanted to engage in an intelligent debate you would not have removed me from your lists a year ago because my views differed from your own.

Third you are an argumentative and silly little man and I have not forgotten about you.

I say HAARP 9-11 and UFOs are all related - EVERYTHING IS RELATED!! - becuase they are projects of the same control group and lies to humanity. You thought otherwise and removed me from your list and then proceeded to follow me and my friends around the web slandering us every opportunity you get.
At least DP and UKFFD is trying to help humanity - I remember being forwarded a message you wrote shortly after 7/7:

"Please do not send messages of sympathy into the ufologyinuk forum for the victims of 7/7 and their families. If you want to talk about them join another group."

So is this kind of attitude what makes you so much better than I??

Screw you Joe - I know exactly what you are - and I picture you looking like the comic guy from the simpsons - am I right??

If only people in here knew YOUR true colours. I'm not going to go out of my way to find you, but I look forward to it. Are you having fun following me around - getting a kick out of trying to wind me up?

Pathetic

joemcg

20th Oct 2005, 00:44

hello "J",

I am guessing that you are either talking about shuttle mission footage from either STS48 or STS75. All that I can offer you are a couple of web links presenting both sides of the argument.

STS48:

You can find the most impressive segment of the footage at the following links:

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/videoclips/sts48.qt
(quicktime version)

http://www.thewhyfiles.net/shuttlevideos/STS48/Video0127-16%20-%20sts48.wmv
(wmv version)

The following link provides an UFO interpretation of the footage (event #2 relates directly to the footage linked above):

http://www.mufor.org/sts48-3.html

and also:

http://www.williamson-labs.com/ufo-aa.htm

For a sceptical explanation of the footage, visit:

http://www.debunker.com/texts/sts48_ufo.html

STS75:

This was the famous "Tether" or "Smoking gun" footage. Clips from it can be viewed here:

http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicsg.html

together with an uncharacteristically (but no less welcomed) balanced description of the video and possible explanation.

If you search for "STS48" and "STS75", you will find many more sites discussing the footage. Personally I am satisfied with the mundane explanations offered.

Regards,
Joe