All composite main rotor blade

[PT6ER]

I have just read a claim (in a local newspaper) as to the "first composite main rotoblade" being introduced recently into service and was intrigued, I thought there have been full composite MRB's out in the world for a while now.

Any and all comments welcomed.

TTFN

[widgeon]

I think Klaus Brunch at MBB may have other ideas .
I am not sure if the 105 or the Aerospat gazelle were the first although neither is all composite. I am certain that even the Carson Blade has the metallic cuff to atatch to the rotor head.

I think the claim is the first all composite blade for the S61 ( though not the Sea King as I think Westlands have retrofitted many). ( edited for spelling ).

[zeeoo]

I think it was rotorhub and not rotor blade.
the full composites hubs exist in eurocopters since a few time..
thanks

[Dave_Jackson]

http://www.unicopter.com/Temporary/Bo105.gif

Sorry for the poor quality.

Dave J.

[NickLappos]

First all-composite rotor blade for an S-61 made on a Thursday between 3 and 4 PM maybe?

[widgeon]

DAve , in my former life at Wastelands we paid lotsa dollars to MBB for tech data on their impregnation and lay up method , in the end they went the pre preg way . I think in the dim recesses of my memory I can recall the mixing ratio between the MY resin and HY hardener.

[Phil Kemp]

Here is the story for the Carson Fire King (http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2004/1202/local/stories/01local.htm) from the local paper.

Maybe not the first, but certainly the latest.

WOW

http://image20.webshots.com/21/3/41/19/226734119pIRLhF_ph.jpg


http://image22.webshots.com/23/3/79/62/226737962zcVvdy_ph.jpg

And really in action with the Fire King!

http://image20.webshots.com/20/4/0/48/226740048blacwA_ph.jpg

http://image20.webshots.com/20/3/93/74/226739374RglJul_ph.jpg

http://image18.webshots.com/18/3/98/10/226739810oKzRdc_ph.jpg

[Hilico]

Phil, what was the name of that company? I couldn't quite make it out from the photos.

[Steve76]

Those 61 blades look distinctly like the blades off an S76. Is that the case Nick?

I flew a completely composite Tail Rotor on a B47/ KH4 variant in Australia.
What an abortion of an idea.

[NickLappos]

Steve76,

The planform seems identical!

The efficiency of the Carson blades (I think that is the name, I can't quite make it out from the photos......) is quite good, they are quite up to modern standards.

We use Figure of Merit to describe the amount of lift you get from the rotor as a percentage of the ideal lift from a perfect set of blades.

The best we have ever tested is about .80 (80% efficient) which is the standard for the next generation.

The Carson blades are about .78, as is the S-92.

The BERP blades on EH-101 are about .74 (not shabby for the early '80's when they were designed.) If the EH-101 had Carson/S-92 blades, it would lift almost 2,000 lbs more for the same power.

[ShyTorque]

Hey Nick, be careful - don't leave yourself open to be accused of assisting the enemy!!

Or is it because you're feeling generous as it's nearly Christmas? Let me see now....Saint Nicholas Lap.....

Are you from Lap(pos)Land?

HOHoHo!! :p

[NickLappos]

ShyTorque,

You must know that I speak my mind here! Were I to sell my soul and spout drivel, you lot would drum me out, and I wouldn't feel right, either.

Carson developed, built, tested and certified that blade himself, which is akin to the SpaceShip 1, in my humble opinion. It is a good blade, and is good for the S-61, I think.

[ShyTorque]

I agree!

But just so surprised you've now told those pesky EH101 folks how to improve their ship!

St Nick

+<(:-)>

;)

[NickLappos]

Those Westlands guys are pretty sharp! They have known this for a decade, all they have waited for is some US Military dollars to do the job! That is what the Presidential fire-fight is all about. The VXX program is (by cost) 11% helicopter purchase of a few starter aircraft, and 89% development funds for the new blades/rotors/powerplants for the year 2014 delivery of the final design.

[ShyTorque]

Oh well, maybe Carson (I think that's what they're called) might buy them for firefighting after it's all over...... :E

[Phil Kemp]

It is wonderful for the S-61.

Incredible performance increase throughout the envelope. Frank Carson and his team did a tremendous job of taking a fantastic concept blade and seeing the entire process through to delivery.

The pictures are of the first delivery of these blades to any customer outside Carson's own fleet. All we can say is WOW - bet you wish you had them too! After we took delivery we cruised back out to work, including a bit of experimentation up to 11,500 feet just to see how she does.

Absolutely fabulous!

http://image20.webshots.com/21/3/49/93/226734993CXvPFp_ph.jpg

[widgeon]

I wonder if the offshore people will buy them ?.
Was there not plans to offer the blades on lease.

[SawThe Light]

Quote " all they have waited for is some US Military dollars to do the job!"

Now there's a thing no other helo manufacturer would do. Just try to imagine it, having the tax-payer foot the bill for R & D of a military project, then using the technology to improve the bottom line on the civil side of the business. I just cannot see how they could sleep nights.

It would be rather like some company using a military machine as the basis for a civil helicopter. Wouldn't happen in the US!

Like, when we offer up a new type for POTUS we are talking NEW here, not bits copied from a military ship.

Whatever will those Europeans do next?

(Why? What'id I say?)

[NickLappos]

SawThe Light,

I think you saw the light! We are not talking about buying an off the shelf product. Imagine the British government pays a Russan organization billions to develop the next generation rotor blade for Britain, while the guys in Yeovil sit by and go on the dole.

Yep, you get the picture.

[bockywocky]

As far as I could trace it, the BERP blades are designed by Westland as an improvement on the Lynx helicopters.

Actually all Lynx helocopters now are flying with the Compsite Main Rotor Blades (CMRB) rather than the old Metal Blades.

The logic step for Westland was to put those blades also on the EH-101.:cool:

[Mr Toad]

Not sure if I'm correct but from memory the blades on the BV234LR in the early 80's were all composite; the only metal bits were the actual attachment points and drag link bearings. These were heavily wrapped in carbon fibre. Military Chinooks had metal blades; maybe different now?

Since leaving North Sea service these aircraft have done long and useful service in the logging industry; I don't think the blades had a finite life, just on condition with a nightly NDT sweep. They were quite good in light icing as they resonated... so did the passengers and crew.

A curious side-effect was that if there was any chance whatever of lightning the Chinook would attract a strike; occasionally even St Elmo's fire around the pitots and cockpit windowframes at night in winter. Weird...

Update from any modern day Chinook drivers/maintainers?

[Senior Pilot]

Press Release today, on the Carson blade trial with the RN Sea King:

QinetiQ completes Carson blade update to the UK Sea King Mk4 fleet

QinetiQ, in a partnership with the MOD's Joint Test and Evaluation Group (known as ATEC – Aircraft Test & Evaluation Centre), has successfully completed a 12-month, £5.25m Carson blades project to increase the capability of the Royal Navy Sea King HC Mk 4 helicopter. The work, carried out for the Sea King Integrated Project Team (SK IPT) in support of an Urgent Operational Requirement (UOR), now enables the Sea King HC Mk 4 to be deployed in support of Operation HERIC in Afghanistan – providing much needed capability.

The main rotor blades on the aircraft have been replaced by modified Carson composite blades (produced by Carson Helicopter inc) and the tail rotor was replaced by an AgustaWestland 5-bladed tail rotor system. A rigorous and intensive series of performance evaluation and flight testing was then conducted by ATEC using a QinetiQ-owned Sea King test aircraft. These confirmed initial predictions that the new system generates up to 2000lb increase in maximum hover mass at high altitude plus enable a significant increase in the maximum forward speed.

Carson blades first came to the MOD's attention six years ago during a Sea King maintenance symposium and the SK IPT was keen to investigate the technology further, but funding and other operational commitments did not immediately allow the idea to be developed. Some time later however, the MOD had to look at extending the life and capability of its current medium lift Sea King and Puma helicopters. Funding was made available to investigate Carson's claims of increased performance and QinetiQ was tasked with conducting a feasibility study. The results confirmed that Carson blades were indeed a cost effective upgrade that delivered real performance improvements, so the MOD moved to bring them into service quickly for use in operational theatres.

The project was formally declared as an UOR on the 21st December 2006 and the SK IPT immediately selected QinetiQ to act as the prime contractor responsible for integrating both modifications. The demanding trials programme developed by QinetiQ focused on delivering specific capability enhancements in a staged release and due to the extremely tight timescales QinetiQ used one of its own Sea King trials aircraft for the test programme. This aircraft (XZ575) was extensively instrumented in a short timeframe and deployed via RAF C17 to Gunnisan, Colorado in the USA for an exhaustive flight test programme that maximised the ‘hot and high’ conditions at the trials site. Both Carson Helicopters and AgustaWestland, supported QinetiQ and ATEC throughout and both phases of the service modification and all supporting documentation were delivered on 10th October 2007.

“Within the MOD, the Carson blades programme is recognised as being demanding with regard to the short timescales involved and there has been a lot of admiration for the way that QinetiQ has tackled the programme and the amount of hours and effort that have been put in,” commented Lt Cdr Dave Maude from the SK IPT. “Looking from the outside, the amount of work that individuals have put in and their dedication is incredible.”

Lt Cdr Maude went on to praise the work of the design instrumentation and manufacture team and squadron engineering. When asked about QinetiQ’s working relationship with other organisations involved in the programme, he stated: “QinetiQ has attained a good working relationship with AgustaWestland and also with the SK IPT, the Combined Helicopter Force (CHF) and Joint Helicopter Command (JHC), who have been involved in all aspects of the programme.”

The delivery of the service modification was made just in time to allow 846 Naval Air Squadron to conduct operational training in Cyprus with the newly modified aircraft. At a briefing given to the SK IPT, CINCFLEET, JHC and CHF shortly after the Cyprus deployment Cdr Mario Carretta (CO 846 NAS) confirmed hover performance was found to have increased by 2000lb and a forward speed increase of up to 49 knots had been demonstrated. Cdr Carretta concluded by stating that “846 NAS was eager to deploy the new capability.”

[[email protected]]

I think the speed increase up to 49 knots is somewhat misleading as the actual Vmax (or more correctly flight envelope limit) will still be circa 127 kts. The difference is that this will be available up to MAUM and at altitude - hence the increase in hot and high performance. Sadly we won't be seeing a 160 kt Sea King :(

[ShyTorque]

RAF Puma HC1s were fitted with all composite blades, to replace the metal type, in the late 1970s. They transformed the aircraft despite an increase in the empty weight (a shame it took so long to catch on in other circles).

[ShyTorque]

Does that mean it can climb higher so it can dive further? :E