descent when ready

[Bigmouth]

This is to settle an argument.

When given a discretionary descent (when ready), do you want a call when the descent is actually atarted in addition to the original acknowledgement of the clearance?

[Hedge End Estate Agent]

not necessary

[eyeinthesky]

It depends... We do have Mode C which tells us what you're up to, so in reality if we're watching what's going on there's no need to tell us. However, when it's busy (or very quiet) we may not notice. I suppose it comes down to what the clearance was. If it was to an intermediate level with an 'expect' later, then a call on leaving might trigger a further clearance. This would especially be true if you were only given a few thousand feet at first due conflicting traffic which has since gone.

Of most use, however is an 'approaching' call as it can trigger a freqency change and prevent unnecessary level-offs.

It is difficult to give a hard and fast rule, since I am sure there are other contributors to this forum who will say the last thing they want when it's busy is another load of calls from a/c reporting leaving or approaching levels. Also if it's very busy then the controller's attention is fully focussed on the radar and he will be watching the Mode C anyway. I suppose it all comes down to common sense. If you think it's necessary, do it.

A subsequent question for you is that if you are given a 'when ready' clearance I understand you base it upon a closed throttle, speed almost at the barber's pole descent. If that clearance is only to an intermediate level with an 'expect' attached, would I be right in thinking that if you get levelled at the intermediate level then that will mean you won't be able to make the expect level?



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"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"

[TinPusher]

No.

[nemo]

No
If we want a check leaving we'll ask.

[WonkyVectors]

Mouth,
No, a leaving call is not required.
I don't know what part of your flight you are referring to but I usually give a 'when ready' descent (to 3000', with a range check) when you are around 25-30 nm from touchdown so that you can either slam the crate down or make a continuous descent onto the ils (or anything in between!).
Just remember tho', if you end up above the glide path its now your fault not mine!!!!!!

[Big Nose1]

NO thanx

[fweeeeep]

If the ATC requested it then yes, if not then no.

[This message has been edited by fweeeeep (edited 20 February 2001).]

[tired]

eyeinthesky - depends on how long you hold us at the intermediate level. If you tell us "descend when ready XXX, expect F150 by Tiger" we'll always plan to reach F150 by Tiger, but if you interupt the descent for too long, then don't blame us if we can't make it - as you say most jets descend at idle and fairly close to barbers pole. There's always a bit of leeway, and there's always the speedbrake, but there's only so much you can do with either.

I've generally found the London guys to be pretty good though, they seem to know what we can do - can only remember the occassional instance where we've been held far too long to be able to make an "expect" level.

[Spoonbill]

Depends if you are recieving a radar service or not.
If you are recieving a procedural approach control service (which often happens at night outside controlled airspace), then the only way the ATCO can allocate the level you've vacated is if you've reported leaving it.
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gifThis, you chaps who have the luxury of class A/D airspace or TMAs protecting your airports, is why those nice SRG people make us ATCOs in the open FIR 'bandit land' have procedural approach control ratings, as well as APR. :)
Was the argument backed by a suitable ale wager?

[andyv]

no,not required unless specifically asked for

[Bigmouth]

Thanks everybody.