have we got our head's completely up our xxxe's?

[fill-your-boots]

I can't believe that so little feedback has been generated from the PPP anouncement. OK I believe myself that it was the best of a bad deal but there has only been 43 post's on the subject on the main thread.
Does nobody care, is every-one too shell shocked to say anything at all? Why is our union not balloting us for action - after all I don't remember in the consultative ballot ticking the box marked "it will all be OK if it is the airlines"
I know the union are completely useless but we seem to have rolled over and submitted altogether - any Joe Public who can remember the issue at all will now assume we are completely happy with the situation.
Why are we not jumping up and down even a little bit!

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cleared-to-go. what slot time?

[BEXIL160]

"The union are completely useless"... so you say.

Question: Are YOU an IPMS or PCS member?

[granny smith]

f-y-b

I don't think it's that everyone is too shell-shocked, just rather relieved that it's not Serco. What purpose do you think industrial action, or even the threat of it, will do to our relationship with our new 'strategic partners'? Incidentally, by law you have to have a dispute with your employers to take industrial action - can't think of one we could use against NATS/Airline Group just at the moment - can you?

As for 'the union' - that's you actually. I grant you that perhaps we 'kept our powder dry' too long in the early stages of the anti-privatisation fight but I for one would not like to have been the person to call the first ATC strike in 20-odd years and face the personal vilification that would surely have followed by our wonderful tabloid press. Would you have had the moral courage to do it? Writing anonymous posts to a bulletin board like this is all very well but would you have gone out in the first days of the PPP fight? More importantly are you absolutely sure that everyone else at your unit and, essentially, LATCC AC would have gone out too? If a strike had been called and the turnout was poor we would have been screwed for a very long time.

By keeping that particular ace up our sleeves we are going into this new company in a position of some power. NATS management and the airlines know we are well pissed off at the PPP going through and that any attacks on our terms and conditions will be met with more than just the threat of industrial action.

I do not think that a spate of union bashing posts will help our position in any way - it can only weaken it. I think the union Branch Executive got it essentially right. Rememeber they are ATCOs first and carry out all their IPMS duties in their spare time. As far as I am aware IPMS in general has not had a great deal of experience of fighting any privatisations. I doubt very much whether a strike would have changed HM Governments mind anyway. They are unbeatable in parliament at the moment and the likes of 2 Jags would not take kindly to us interfereing with his bullying.

I think most ATCOs understand that the union's task now is to ensure we don't get screwed - that's why we are not collectively jumping up and down.

regards

Granny

[BEXIL160]

Hear, Hear Granny.

Couldn't agree more...

BEX

[slurp]

i was at a PCS meeting where it was stated that although we opposed PPP ,the strike ballot would be put on the shelf and used only if the AG failed to follow their 'agreements' with the unions ....they could easily do this ,but the ballot is there.

[Wheelybin]

Approximatley 90% of ALL controllers (not just at LATCC) responded with a positive vote in favour of industrial action against a profit motive being introduced to ATC. Does "a profit motive" just refer to dividends or to reduced fees? To give the function of controlling air traffic to a group that for the most part only use that system for 16 hours of the day is opening up huge problems for those who use it the other 8, (How many cargo airlines are involved in the airline group?).
To think that the ALG will not use this position to their own advantage is naievety in the extreme.For those at Area units, not yet used to commercial forces,false bids and unachievable promises, let me tell you the bidding process for ATC is dirty,groups (such as serco) giving bids they know they cant meet,in order to put NATS on the backfoot(with the full knowledge of the airport operator). Is this the tactic the government used????The ALG may not be Serco, but we must be very cautious over the next few months to ensure our power is heard in the right boardrooms, and that we are still prepared to take industrial action if they put their wishes before our concerns.
PS anyone else heard that our "fair and equitable share is not going to be £17,000 but a measly £500

[WebCreator]

As an active campaigner against both PPP and Serco I too am amazed that in certain quarters the conversation has turned from "anti-this and that" to "what's in it for me?" That said, I absolutely agree with Granny in that you have a trump card yet to be played; a new strategic partner that has not only publicly voiced it's "not-for-profit" motives but that also has a considerable interest in maintaining the status quo. I think there is considerable relief that you are not to become part of Serco (from all areas)but there remains a degree of cynicism which is healthy. Not everything in the ALG garden will be rosy, but that's why you have the PCS and IPMS. Remain cynical, question everything, ask not what you can do for the ALG but what they can do for you and carry on the game, one move at a time. If anything, PPP was inevitable, what isn't inevitable is how it will now manifest itself day to day, one could argue that it is now that the work begins.

[Numpo-Nigit]

For those decrying the "what's in it for me?" posts elsewhere on the forum, I will make this point. At this moment, PPP looks like a "done deal", although whether non-member airlines, SERCO, the EU, etc have had their final say remains to be seen.

For those of us inside NATS, this remains a time of great uncertainty. We are all wondering "what's in it for me?", with grave misgivings. However, the questions have to be asked. The discussion, for example, of the employee shares is not on a basis of greed, just an attempt to understand the one clear difference so far announced. The general consensus seems to be that these employee shares are of no real value, merely window dressing to make it appear that the staff are real partners in the PPP process. Let's just hope and pray that other utterances by HMG, NATS management and the Airline Group, on the subject of staff numbers, working conditions, pensions, etc, are not mere window dressing as well.

It would be a "good" outcome if, in the months and years to come, IPMS can keep its powder in the dry store, where it has been for so many years. At the moment I think all we can do is wait and see.

[fill-your-boots]

Well at least some people are alive out there.

Granny;
I am well aware of the problem of having a legal dispute with our employers as opposed to our future ones. Without doubt the unions and Blair/2 Jags does as well so the whole consultative ballot was only so much hot air.

Point taken that we still have the 'ace' up our sleaves but at what point do we finally use it? Surely nothing as threatening has ever happened to CAA/NATS before - when do we finally act?
You make the point that it would be a bad thing to start off with very poor industrial relations with our new lords and masters, in theory I agree but would you have said the same thing if it had been Serco?
The main topic of PPP related conversation in our rest room has been whether or not we might get airline 'friends and familly' deals. I am not union bashing I am EVERYONE bashing, we will end up with the system we deserve.

Wheelybin;
If by 'fair and equitable share' you mean the share handout WAKE-UP. This has from Day 1 been an attempt at a hollow bribe probably to weaken any attempt at industrial action, (I can just visualise 2 Jags on the news saying how generous the government have been giving all these shares to staff) but they are almost completely worthless. Since we are not going to be floated on the open stock-market (not yet anyway) we are only going to be able to sell them to each other or back to 2 Jags - unless your Visa is totally out of control forget it!


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cleared-to-go. what slot time?

[slurp]

fill-your-boots....if you fancy striking against an Act of Parliament then you are braver than me.I take one look at the Miners' Strike and see what lengths a Government will go to,to protect the 'democracy'...a strike against an employer ..Yes,but against a Government ...not possible

[beaglepup]

Miners.....MAGGIE
ATC.....Blur/2Jags
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!
Nuff sed!

[fill-your-boots]

I'm not even advocating being on strike at the moment just keeping it all in the news, still writing to your MP, telling friends and relatives what this two faced government have done.
When you are sat doing your job this time next year and that job is under threat you will not be able to tell the difference between Serco's cuts to increase their profits and the ALG's cuts to 'improve efficiency'

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cleared-to-go. what slot time?

[Baby Faced Finster]

Fill your boots

The union worked their asses off trying to raise public awareness, on the radio, in the papers, anywhere they could. The media were not interested. They would not give the subject the airing it deserved.
Sweeping remarks like the union is crap, are unhelpful, uninformed, and wholly insulting to those of us who tried to fight the fight.
What did you do? I have no idea. So rather than assume you are all mouth and no action, as you appear to have done for IPMS, maybe you can tell us all.
Asto what happens now.....as far as I am concerned, the public were never interested, so the public be damned.

[fill-your-boots]

I have had a count up and it totals 41 letters or Emails to MP's.
2 visits to my own MP's "surgery"
Endless badgering/bullying of friends and colleages to also contact the powers that be.
I don't want a medal but will that do?

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cleared-to-go. what slot time?