RAF or NATS

[AdeLewis]

Hi All
I'm mid-way through selection of the NATS but I am also considering going for Air Traffic control as an officer in the RAF. It has its advantages and I think I would love the military life but my main question at the moment is,

If I was to go to the RAF as an Officer, do the ATCO training, on completion of my service how "employable" would I be from NATS point of view. Are there many current civilian ATCO's who are formally RAF ATCO's and I would love to hear about the differences in work.

If anyone has any advice they can offer I would be most grateful.

Many Thanks

Adelewis

[eyeinthesky]

There are indeed many ex-military ATCOs now in the civil world. What you need to bear in mind is that NATS does not recognise military ATC qualifications, so if you wanted to work for a NATS-controlled ATC unit you would have to pass selection for the NATS course and pass that (as you know, 12-18 months of study) followed by validation training at your unit (another 12 months or so). Of course if you wanted to work non-state you would have to persuade them of the value of your military experience. I don't know what their position is on this.

It seems to me you need to decide whether you want the military life. If this is not extremely appealing, then you would be better to stick with the civil (money's better!!)

Good luck with the selection!

[Spoonbill]

I would concur with eyeintheskye's comments.
I'm not ex - mil, and I'm sure that you'd have a good career in the RAF, but if at all possible, stick with the NATS thread if you can.
The main reason is that, unless you're really on top of things, the longer you spend in the forces, the harder you will find it to adjust to civillian ATC.
Very few, if any non state airfields/airport organisations will take someone on who doesn't have at least the CAA Aerodrome and Procedural Approach Control ratings, and most prefer you to have the Radar rating as well.
If you join the RAF, you wil have to complete these courses when you come out, and pay for them yourself, (around £16500 per course now), along with the inherent risk of failing mid course, and loosing your dosh.
I know a guy who is in the process of leaving the RAF, ( a skilled ATCO), who has been offered a position by NATS upon completion of his self - sponsered aerodrome course. They will then pay for the other 2 courses, but if he fails either of the courses OR the the subsequent validations, he will have to pay them back the FULL course and accomodation costs, AND he will not have a job with them. The pressure of the exams is enough to contend with - never mind the added extra's!
If you dont get into NATS, try a few airports with the intention of joining as an ATC assistant, many of them now have their own ATCO training schemes.
This isn't to the RAF career is not worthy of consideration, it can be very worthwhile and rewarding http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif, it depends where you want to be at 55!

Very best of luck. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[Chilli Monster]

eyeinthesky

You have some very funny ideas on licensing. Whether NATS or non-NATS you still hold the same licence and the training requirements (RGAT course) are still the same - you imply that it may be possible to walk into a non-NATS job possibly on the basis of Mil ATC experience - It is not.

AdeLewis

I'm an ex Mil Assistant, but still have contacts in the RAF. Morale at the moment with extra duties, short staffing is at an all time low and doesn't look like it'll improve (Have a look at the military pilots threads about the latest pay award if you want this backing up). Stick with the NATS route, only contemplate the military as a last resort. As Spoonbill says, if the NATS route falls flat there is always the possibility of an assistants job with a regional and with a fairly hefty retirement bulge coming up across the board there will be posts to fill if they think you are worth the investment.

Spoonbill

Now down to 5 of the original 9 who started! (Various reasons). Only 2 more weeks to go :)

[AdeLewis]

ok ok, you have all done a fine job is persuading me away from the RAF and concentrating on my NTAS application.

Some of you mentioned regional airports that might offer Assistant ATCO positions, does anyone have any contact details or any information of such airports preferably in the south East, or infact anywhere really. Ill go anywhere, do anything.

[TC_LTN]

Stick with the NATS route unless you are certain that all possibilities of getting a cadetship have been exhausted. I am very lucky in that I have just been acquired by NATS as a 'non-state' ATCO. Luton had a fine record of recruiting ATSAs and turning them out of the system as ATCOs or even Airport Directors. Sadly commercial constraints on 'non-state' ATC providers has meant that those days have gone at many airfields. You will read from other threads that NATS in the run-up to possible PPP is not without it's problems but still represents probably the best option for somebody embarking on a career in air traffic.

[The Nr Fairy]

AdeLewis :

Although I'm not an ATCO, I think some sort of major commitment to any prospective employer is a pre-requisite. Of course you've got your own reasons for it, but I suspect you'd better keep quiet during selection about wanting to be an Army Air Corps officer.

Check out http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum46/HTML/001203.html for those who wonder what I'm rambling about.

[AdeLewis]

At the end of the day I am entitled to explore all career options. Yes, Army Air Corps is one option I am exploring, as is the NATS, as is the RAF.

In my position of comming up to graduate from university I am not 100% sure of any particular career path, hence my asking for advice on this web site. I really dont see anything wrong in that.

However, thankyou for your advice.

[Crabo]

Ade

I am a mil ATCO who hopes to become a civil ATCO when my time is up.

Despite what you might read in other forums, military life is not half bad. Go in with your eyes wide open and you will probably have a great time. The people you will work with and the job is second to none with lots of variety, travel and responsibility at a young age. However, if this does not interest you and all you want to do is be an ATCO, then you have to go civy - the job is certainly demanding, it pays better than the military and there is more stability.

Dont forget that you do not have to stay in the military all your life and there are ways of getting into civil ATC at the end of your time in the military. Despite planning to leave in a few years, I have no regrets.

Make sure that you research all your options and do some visits.

[Bizzy]

AdeLewis

I am a military ATCO, in the middle of trying to transfer to NATS. Although over the entry age, they have accepted my prior experience, and are willing to take me on under the standard cadetship, IF I pass the tests/interviews - by no means a certainty despite experience.

As Crabo says, the military life is good fun, as is the controlling. However, standard of living is dropping, in partc due to continuing manpower cutbacks coupled with more tasking.
You can have a very rewarding career in the nilitary or in Civil, but you have to realise that if you wanted to go military then civil, you will be older, and therefore the course will be more difficult when you come to tackle it.
There is also no guarantee, as mentioned in above replies, that NATS will pay you through. You may have to self finance, which could be a bit of a headache, and put more pressure on you during an already stressful course. I know of several military ATCOs who have done this, and they found it very hard work - just because you can control in the military, it does not follow that you can neccessarily do it in the civil world!
Whatever you choose, good luck!

Crabo
I don't know how far along the pipeline you are, but if you are interested in bouncing ideas etc, drop me a maily :-)

[Miffy]

Just be 100% sure that the air farce is really what you want to do. They are leaving in droves, because of various problems. The life is great if you get a good posting, but they are so few and far between. The politics in NATS are demoralising, but think of the money............. (well in the short term anyway!!)