KLM off the runway at BCN?

[N.N.C]

I just read a KLM a/c left the runway at BCN
Barcelona, Spain

Does anyone have any news on this?

Regards,

N.N.C.

[TheFlyingDJ]

Upon take off the gear collapsed and they of the rwy.

another update:

It did skid off the rwy during landing.

[Flying Kangaroo]

Valid from 28 Nov 2004 to 28 Nov 2004 (released 28 Nov 2004 at 19:11:03)
.
SUBJECT: HIGH DELAY
.
OPERATORS AND ATC UNITS ARE ADVISED THAT THERE ARE MAJOR DELAYS
IN THE FOLLOWING AREAS: ARRIVALS AND DEPARTURES LEBL
.
DELAYS ARE CAUSED BY INCIDENT (DISABLED AIRCRAFT)

ARR AND DEP AVERAGING UP TO 120 MINUTES

[wingview]

139 pax and 6 crew on board, no report of injuries!:ok:

[DouglasFlyer]

AMSTELVEEN – November 28, 2004 – KLM Royal Dutch Airlines regrets to report that at 18:50 hrs local time a landing incident occurred with flight number KL 1673 at Barcelona International Airport.

Shortly after landing the aircraft got off the runway.

Passengers left the aircraft through the emergency slides.

No personal injuries have been reported, however 2 passengers were taken into hospital for additional check ups.


Flight: KL1673

Stretch: Amsterdam / Barcelona

Passenger: 140

Crew: 6

Aircraft: Boeing 737-400

Registration: PH-BTC

[D-OCHO]

Shortly after landing the aircraft got off the runway.

Isn't this what you are supposed to do after landing.:p

Or has KLM different SOP's than most airlines about what to do after landing. :E

(Like: park it on the runway.)

[Fokkerdriver]

Hell of a parking though!!

It looked pretty serious.

Wonder if it will ever fly again.

[ScootCargoOps]

any pictures yet?

[wingview]

link (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1838769/)
copy and paste, should work now...

[Ptkay]

Sorry...

Linky not Worky

;)

Worky now....

:p

[AIRWAY]

How about you go to the airliners.net main page, scroll down and more or less in the middle of the page there should be some discussion topics... click on the correct link and again scroll down, and there should be a picture :ok:

[andyloynes]

Pic at http://home.planet.nl/~melen047/PH-BTC734/


Sorry! Link worked when I posted it!

[amanoffewwords]

That linky not worky eithy

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/schoenorama/PH-BTC734.jpg

And here (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1838769/)

[M.Mouse]

The contribution from 'spacecadet' on the thread reached from the link above is a classic!

[Few Cloudy]

Them there slides were a lot of use... but if no-one was injured who´s to complain?

[beardy]

Perhaps, in view of this and the recent MyTravel incident, along with the programme to decrease the number of runway incursions the CAA should run a parallel programme to decrease the number of runway excursions.:O

[Vicky Pollard]

Gosh.....Isn't the weather nice in BCN

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/721949/M/

A big round of applause for the flight deck and cabin crew.

:ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

[Bearcat]

how the frig did they go into the bushes?

[A-FLOOR]

Glad everyone got off OK, hats off to the crew! :ok:

A source within KLM E&M tells me the BTC will likely not fly again. Ever. :(

[hobie]

"A source within KLM E&M tells me the BTC will likely not fly again. Ever"

census data

25424 2200 B737-406 CFM56-3B2 02/06/92 KLM PH-BTC

:(

[Vicky Pollard]

I should hope not!

[Boeing737]

> Them there slides were a lot of use... but if no-one was injured > who´s to complain?

totally agree, well done to the crew.

:8

[jettesen]

what exactly do you mean by them slides were a lot of use? Still a huge drop from the door to the ground, so slides were imperative in this situation

[hobie]

jettesen .... what would you estimate the drop to be ?

my guess - 8 to 9ft (min)

[RUDAS]

i was at bcn when it happened...total chaos in the terminal,with (inexplicably) gates being shuffled around without telling anyone,no airline representatives around or anything,and delays of around 3 hrs.Announcements only stated that there was a delay due to "airport technical problems",which could have meant computer systems,electricity or even a strike for all the pax knew...no info at all was given.I think,being a pilot,i was the only one in the terminal who knew that there was a situation by looking at the huge number of lights surrounding the acft which seemed to be 'parked' in a very odd spot (initially i guessed it may be a bomb scare/hijacking as it was isolated & there was so little info),although it only became clear what it was as we taxied out past the KLM.

interested to see what the investigation reveals...

[jettesen]

EXACTLY! not many people would be willing to jump 8 or 7 ft in a hurry after an emergency situation once shock has set in. People would be incredibly slow in evacuating without slides, and definately more injuries. what about children and OAP's getting out????

[foxile]

Seems 'TC is now back on her feet, sort of.... well, on crutches at least...


http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=282905


Foxile

[Ignition Override]

Just curious, but what were the winds and other weather conditions?

[Otterman]

This is what we know as off right now. I am not making a judgment here on what the cause is, that is for the investigators.

The aircraft had a bird strike shortly after take-off from Schiphol Airport. All indications were normal as far as the cockpit could judge. There was a consult with KLM maintenance and it was decided, since there were no indications of anything being abnormal, that the flight should proceed to Barcelona (its intended destination). At Barcelona a standard inspection would be made by an aircraft maintenance technician.

Upon landing it was not possible to remain on the runway using first normal techniques (using rudder), followed by the use of differential reverse and as a final resort the nose wheel steering system. The aircraft left the runway at around 100 knots. Remains of the bird have been found on the nose gear strut where it apparently damaged some important bits.

Regards O,

[hobie]

Does it really look a "Write-Off" as mentioned above :confused:

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=282905

[Vizcaya]

Otterman:

Remains of the bird have been found on the nose gear strut where it apparently damaged some important bits. What´s that red stuff inside the left engine? Second bird strike in BCN maybe? Anyone got a clue?

Upon landing it was not possible to remain on the runway using first normal techniques (using rudder), followed by the use of differential reverse and as a final resort the nose wheel steering system. The aircraft left the runway at around 100 knots. Pretty impressive to do all that in the few seconds it take to go from Vref to 100 kts.

All in all a bizarre incident. All that from one (?) bird srike on the nose gear? I can´t wait for the report to come out.

[YAK PILOT]

A colleague had a bird strike on the nose gear of his 737 resulting in steering problems. The bird had impacted and fouled at least one of the two exposed cables that route to the steering mechanism from the tiller on the flight deck.

For him it resulted in a tendancy to veer to one side but could be overcome with rudder and a large steering input.

[E. MORSE]

Differential braking is the only one effective sollution when nosewheelsteering is inop.

[murphyp]

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=721949&size=L&sok=&photo_nr=

:mad: man

[IFixPlanes]

@Vizcaya
... What´s that red stuff inside the left engine? Second bird strike in BCN maybe? Anyone got a clue?
After a bird strike on an engine you find the remains behind the fan blades.

I think the engine pick up some dirt while scraping over the ground.

@ YAK PILOT
In reference to the posting of Otterman your speculation can make sense.

But finally we have to wait for the official investigation report.

Ingo

[Phoenix_X]

http://www.airwork.nl/bulletinboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2509&perpage=40&pagenumber=3

It's all in Dutch, but the explanation is here on a picture. Scroll down a bit to a post by Diana with a photo from the air. You can clearly see what the red debries is.

[GearDown&Locked]

This photo (http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=390243) gives another look at the incident.:eek:

[Vizcaya]

Thanks everyone for the pictures and the possible ´red debris´ explanation!

Just one more question/observation from GearDown&Locked´s picture posted above: doesn´t the rudder point the wrong way to keep the aircraft on the runway centerline? :confused:

[blackmail]

hello vizcaya,

no, in a previous (night) picture, you can clearly see the rudder in the centered position. without hydraulic pressure a x-wind from the right can blow the rudder to the left as shown in the picture you're referring to. anyway rudder authority is only 7° left/right of center for nosewheelsteering with the nosewheel tiller overriding the rudderpedals commands. during normal takeoffs & landings rudder aerodynamic authority is more than adequate for directional control, nosewheelsteering is used only at very low speeds.

i am indeed very curious to know what exactly happened. wouldn't be surpriced it might be a wake up call for everybody, manufacturer, authorities & aircrews alike. maybe murphy struck again? will we ever tame that bloke?


seems the plane had hydraulic problems before &/or after coming to a halt: emergency evacuation procedures call among other things to retract the speedbrakes but one of the pictures shows clearly not all ground & flight spoilers have retracted.

[Phoenix_X]

Mike Jenvey, the reason why I posted the link is because the thread specifically indicates NO DIRECT LINKS to the picture due to server load. Otherwise, I would have done so myself.

Maybe I should have stated that straightaway.

[Jhieminga]

These links may not work from here, but lets try:
Photo 1 (http://www.atcbox.com/Pictures-forum/btc-1.JPG)
Photo 2 (http://www.atcbox.com/Pictures-forum/btc-3.jpg)
Photo 3 (http://www.atcbox.com/Pictures-forum/btc-8.jpg)

[Phoenix_X]

Mike, thanks.

[iceman51]

Also these pics:

Pic 2 (http://www.atcbox.com/Pictures-forum/btc-2.jpg)

Pic 4 (http://www.atcbox.com/Pictures-forum/btc-4.jpg)

Pic 5 (http://www.atcbox.com/Pictures-forum/btc-5.jpg)

Pic 6 (http://www.atcbox.com/Pictures-forum/btc-6.jpg)

Pic 7 (http://www.atcbox.com/Pictures-forum/btc-7.jpg)

[foxile]

Any decision on the future of the airframe, is it destined to be recycled.....?

[Phoenix_X]

Cpt. Kaos, the reason why I posted the link is because the thread specifically indicates NO DIRECT LINKS to the picture due to server load. Otherwise, I would have done so myself.

As stated before. I don't know why my previous post was deleted.

[Jhieminga]

Gossip from a usually trustworthy source says that PH-BTC will not fly again. Repairs are deemed to be too expensive.

[Cameronian]

Judging from Diana's airshot (or is that word more applicable to my golf?!) 20 yards more sliding would have made for a VERY nasty result. Lucky chaps, methinks....

[Roundout]

Boeing released excerpts of the BOI findings to operators today - typical, just bloody typical Boeing - their product suffers a mechanical failure brought on by a bird-strike and they blame........................................the pilot; for not recognizing that the bird-strike that he had out of AMS (that he very possibly wasn't aware of) had caused a nose-wheel steering control cable to shear. Here's the drivel:
FROM: THE BOEING COMPANY
21-Sep-2005 16:44:36 US PACIFIC TIME

PRODUCT TYPE: Airplane
PRODUCT LINE: 737
PRODUCT: 737-400
ATA: 0230-00
PART NUMBER:

REFERENCES:
/A/ SR 1-111721075 Dated 10 Aug 2005
/B/ 737-300/400/500/600/700/800/900 Flight Crew Training Manual (FCTM), Page 8.30 , Situations Beyond the Scope of Non-Normal Checklists, Flight Path Control Dated 31 October 2004

SUBJECT: 737-400 PH-BTC Runway Excursion during Landing, Barcelona, Spain - 28 November 2004

Final Final Final Final

The Spanish Civil Aviation Accident and Incident Investigation Commission (CIAIAC) has investigated the subject accident with assistance from the Dutch Transportation Safety Board (TSB), the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), the Operator and Boeing. The CIAIAC has published their final report, which can be accessed on the following web site:
http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/0E5E853B-DE65-4617-B614-A1F76847DC92/13891/2004_070_A_ENG.pdf

The following is an extract from the report:
Quote
3.2. Causes
It is considered that the accident probably happened because during the takeoff a bird strike broke one of the cables of the nose wheel steering system of the aircraft and jammed the other, which made that the nose wheels were rotated to the left during landing, causing a veering to the left that could not be arrested by full rudder deflection as the aircraft decelerated. The subsequent application of brakes and other actions by the crew could not avoid that the aircraft went outside the runway surface.

The damages to the aircraft were increased by the condition of the runway strip due to the airport construction works.

Contributing to the breaking of the cable was the fact that it was severely worn locally. The wear could be traced back to the incorrect application of grease to the cable system during maintenance. Despite the training and experience of the flight crew, they were unable to quickly recognize the possible cause of the deviation of the aircraft and to keep the aircraft on the runway.
End quote

On page 73 of the report, there are two recommendations addressed to Boeing. These recommendations are repeated below with Boeing's responses.

Quote
Recommendation 20/05: It is recommended to The Boeing Company that a service information letter or similar document is sent to all the operators of Boeing 737 aircraft to make flight crews and maintenance personnel aware of the hazardous effects that a bird impact in the area of the NLG could have in the nose wheel steering system, and that precautionary measures should be taken in this case. This letter should also highlight the importance to strictly follow the instructions of document 737-FTD-32-03008 in order to avoid the wear of the NWS cables.
End quote

Boeing Response: Boeing has addressed the above recommendation in the following manner. The reference a) message was released to all 737 operators following the subject event. A copy of this message can be obtained from your local Boeing Field Service Representative or the Airline Support Manager(s) assigned to your airline.

Quote
Recommendation 21/05: It is recommended to The Boeing Company that supplementary training instructions are provided to operators of Boeing 737 to allow flight crews to quickly identify a possible NWS malfunction during landing and to advise them of the expected performance of the aircraft and of the measures that should be taken to avoid losing directional control at high speeds.
Endquote

Boeing Response: Boeing has addressed the above recommendation in the following manner. As detailed in the reference a) message, 737 operators were advised that bird strikes such as the one in the subject event can potentially damage and/or displace Nose Wheel Steering (NWS) cables, thus affecting the landing roll. After an event affecting NWS, the nose wheel may be deflected. The amount of deflection and its effect on directional control of the airplane on the ground depend on the nature of the failure. Similar exposure to un-commanded NWS deflection exists on other Boeing models. Therefore, operators are directed to the following guidance in heritage Boeing Flight Crew Training Manuals (FCTM), similar to the Reference b):

Situations Beyond the Scope of Non-Normal Checklists

"Aggressive differential braking and/or use of asymmetrical reverse thrust, in addition to other control inputs, may be required to maintain directional control."

Boeing believes this general guidance is the only sound instruction and training advice that can be provided to crews to accommodate demanding situations that require the use of various controls to prevent drift and possible runway excursion. These situations include but are not limited to blown tires, collapsed main landing gear, strong crosswinds on dry runways, thrust reverser anomalies, icy patches on runways, seized brakes and nose wheel steering anomalies including jammed steering metering valves and the kind associated with the subject accident.

R. S. Breuhaus, Chief Engineer, Air Safety Investigation BOEING

Take it as given - if you prang a Boeing (or an Airbus for that matter) they are going to come after you & prove that it was your incompetence (at whatever level) & not their product that led to the sudden end of the flight

[A-FLOOR]

And how exactly are you supposed to know your nose gear steering cable has sheared _after_ the wheels have left the ground on takeoff??

[LowNSlow]

Surely it's not beyond the wit of man to fit deflector shields to exposed cables which, when damaged, have the capacity to wreak havoc?

[A-FLOOR]

... or design the nose gear assy to be without exposed cables in the first place... or reroute them to go along the rear of the main strut, keeping them out of the way of any stray pigeon, supercooled water droplets, etc ...

:rolleyes:

[False Capture]

Surely Boeing are just acting on the recommendation from the Spanish CIAIAC. The final CIAIAC report contains following @rse-covering statement:

"It is recommended to The Boeing Company that a service information letter or similar document is sent to all the operators of Boeing 737 aircraft to make flight crews and maintenance personnel aware of the hazardous effects that a bird impact in the area of the NLG could have in the nose wheel steering system, and that precautionary measures should be taken in this case."