accidental penetration of london ctz

[genius-747]

I was flying in a single engine a/c 3 days ago from a local airfield. I was in a c-172 with 3 passengers. ie- the aircraft was full. there was quite a bit of talk in the a/c and i must of lost consentration, because I accidently penetrated about 2nm of the ctz, on realization i immediatly turned 180 deg and got out of there- I continued my flight as planned and acted as if it hadent happend. I know i shouldnt of done this- but it was my first time, and i did not know what to do at all.

if this should ever happen again could somebody please advise me what is the best cours of action to take.

thanking in advance.
6month ppl holder

[Spotnik]

Squawk 0030 (LOST) would help as it flashes up on the radar screen and draws attention to the intruder, so avoiding action can be taken if necessary. Otherwise, yes turn around and get the heck out quick, and of course you can always leave controlled airspace by descent (though not in a control zone!) Well, that would be a dramatic way to leave CAS :)

If you do squawk 0030 you may get a rollicking when followed back to your home airfield but at least you may have saved your skin and someone elses.

Anyway, you learn from your mistakes. Safe flying!

[Vfrpilotpb]

The only course of action is beat yourself sensless with a stout branch , BUT most of all remember when you leave Terra Firma in future make sure that your brain goes with you, I suppose looking at the black side of your flight you have prob been Radartracked and as we speak( so to speak) the ATC police are on your trail, if you are distracted by passengers, simply untill you have more experiance leave them on the ground!
"The last inch does all the damage" :EEK:

[3rd Runway]

My advice, phone the appropriate ATC agency and discuss the "incident". Such infringemnets often happen and a quick chat will normally diffuse any potential formal action. Obviously, if you've really scr&wed up there may be an investigation but, unless you argue the case or have been relatively unsafe, you would get away with a slap on the wrist.
If you happen to have hit the CTR from the North you probably gave Northolt more of a fright than Heathrow. If so, give SATCO Northolt a call and I'm sure he would be most willing to discuss, host a visit, describe the services his controllers can provide to help you out. At the end of the day, the airspace around London is quite tight and it's very easy for an ac under VFR to inadvertantly penetrate the CTR.

Regardlees, I bet you've already learnt a lesson and good on you for owning up.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

CALL US for Heavens sake... If you flight-plan properly you should know what frequencies to use both for normal communications and in case of emergency - the Heathrow Special VFR controller on 119.9 is good most times around the London CTZ but if that's closed try 119.725. If you are ever "unsure" of your position call him he'll do everything possible to help - and the chances of you being "done" are remote unless you've gone too far... However if you cause us big problems and we have to track yo, confirm identification and go through the nausea of report-writing, etc., you will probably get reported. I just heard that somebody who did that last year got fined £1500 plus £500 costs so think about it.. If you enter the zone and are obviously (to us) lost we have to take avoiding action with controlled traffic. If that means breaking traffic off the ILS, etc, all hell is to pay..



[This message has been edited by HEATHROW DIRECTOR (edited 05 April 2001).]

[Bright-Ling]

As HD says call 119.9 asap.

Depending where you are in the zone, you could call Farnborough (NW round to SE) on 125.25 (LARS) or 134.35 (approach).

Although doing a 180 was a good enough plan, be advised that if you get in too deep you might cause major headaches if seen an Radar to be manouevring in different directions.

As well as the 0030, you could have called yr last freq if others weren't known, and told them to call LHR asap.

Either way, you need to brush up. Using pax as a reason for not following the rules is poor........but a good learning point.

If you turned off yr Mode A/C and did try and be anonymous you could be in deep do-doo. I was speaking to a CAA inspector the other day regarding a similar incident. This one was more serious as LHR were halted for 5 mins or so. The chap said that the worst offences involve not speaking to anyone, and that the Authority appreciates some mistakes, but running for cover is worse.

Remember, most of the SE is covered by a good mosaic of radar cover down to a low level, and all are recorded at West Drayton.

And the most annoying thing, is using a controller on a break to track the aircraft to its destination. Very annoying!!!

PLease give us a call by phone if nothing else, or ask to visit.....you might learn something.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!!!!!!!!

[eyeinthesky]

Nobody has mentioned D&D on 121.5. They are not, as someone once said, "Detect&Destroy", but are geared up for just this sort of occurrence. If you KNOW you have infringed CAS, then get the hell out of there by the shortest route and call the relevant agency if you know it. Even if it was only a couple of miles, call them and tell them it was you and APOLOGISE. Chances are a) they WILL have noticed your incursion and b) if they have not had to move their traffic out of our way you will get asked to phone in for a discussion and that should be the end of it.

If you do not know for sure either where you are or whether you have infringed, I would suggest a call to D&D. They will immediately give you a position and ensure you are not in the wrong place. If you are, they will help you get out and liaise with the relevant agency. The use of 0030 squawk I would suggest should be reserved for its proper use, which is when the FIR 'controller' is talking to an aircraft who is uncertain of position and he wants D&D to help him find it. The willy-nilly selection of it will mislead radar controllers as they will assume the FIR are in contact with you and they might not be.

The bit about trying to hide is very true. You won't do it and you will definitely get the book thrown at you. There was a discussion about this on the GA /Forum under the title of "Please squawk Mode C..." or something.

Best of all, make sure your navigation is up to scratch and then you won't need any of this. ;)

------------------
"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"

[M.Mouse]

I endorse the responses from the controller contributors.

genius-747 appears to be based in Ireland but the same advice obviously applies.

A word of caution though, genius-747 has made 23 posts in the few days that he has been registered (he made 13 in the first two days) some of which have been less than intelligent. Some he has since removed and, given the spelling, I am suspicious that he is who he claims to be ie a new PPL.

If he is genuine then I apologise in advance.

[InFinRetirement]

I don't, of course, fly anymore but when I had ocassion to have a bit of fun in a small aircraft, I would fly "through the gap" between LHR and LGW - which is, and always has been, subject to careless and deliberate infringement.

I actually live just 1 1/4 miles north of the extreme SE corner of the zone and I am amazed how many aircraft come over my home usually heading for Biggin. One did it today - not two hours ago! This means they have infringed LHR. They may have a Special VFR of course, but invariably it's just plain bad map reading.

I used LHR's controllers at 'work' times and was always grateful to them, to abuse them in play time was just not acceptable.

So, while they are absolute gentlemen don't abuse them, they are bigger than you are and can give you a nasty clout - if you see what I mean!

[Hairy Growler]

Definitely the correct and most sensible course of action is to call up and admit that you are lost. If I am in charge, and the infringement has not been a serious one, I will have a chat with the pilot on the 'phone and leave it at that. if the plane comes into the zone and then makes a run for it, I will track the bastard down to the ends of the earth if I have to and report on him. Honesty is the best course of action.

[3rd Runway]

Hairy, I couldn't agree more. Honesty is the best policy.

[Spoonbill]

Eye in the Sky hits the nail on the head.
If unsure of your position call D & D on 121.5, they'll find you quicker than anyone can and give you the best advice to resolve your navigational problems.
They will also take care of the phone calls to the atcos who's airspace you have inadvertently infringed, leaving you to do the important stuff, (unless it's Essex Radar's airspace - they will have had the laser guided missiles trained on you from the moment you entered CAS http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif).
I'm suprised that of all the experienced atcos who have responded only one mentioned D&D, they take a big weight off our shoulders in such situations and are highly trained to do so - let them get on with it! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif