Newsflash! Emirates is not all bad!

[Dropp the Pilot]

The Emirates pilots Yahoo group has a posting on it where a captain has called for broad-based support in his campaign to force the company to imake better free sandwiches.

Apparently, every time he steps on board he is handed our standard pre-departure snack but it doesn't meet with his approval. We are told that the sandwiches are "soggy" and not quite like mum used to make.

I submit that any individual who needs to dredge this far for complaint either has a degree of perfection in their life only found on Mount Olympus or seriously needs their head read.

Any guesses as to his nationality?:cool:

[donpizmeov]

I am thinking you do not get out much?
Don

[7x7]

(Yeah, probably in the office too much.)

So we know what fleet you’re on, DtP.

And from your comments, I’d also contend that you should change your user name to ‘Lost the Plot ’.

Oh, and in closing, I think he’s spot on in what he says. But in my opinion, the discussion is NOT for Pprune and I’d suggest you delete your silly post before you embarrass yourself further.

[MTOW]

After reading “Dropp the Pilot’s” post, I’ve just gone back and re-read what the offending captain said in his Yahoo message and for the life of me, can’t see where Droppy drew his rather unusual conclusions from. Have you got some personal issues with the individual concerned, Droppy? Or is it with his nationality? (There seems to be a few among us with that problem.)

So from what I read from your post, I can only assume you disagree with what he’s saying. Or is it as you the first reply to your post suggests – you don’t get out onto the Line very often?

And if we’re going to have a vote on it, I agree with him – there’s nothing wrong with the sandwiches, just the bloody miles of unnecessary gladwrap that turns each one into mushy baby food.

[BigGeordie]

We aren't really going to have a thread on this are we?:rolleyes:

[Dune]

From DTP's profile page:


"Occupation: Captain, seriously large aircraft"


Enough said about this guy.


Dune

[StressFree]

Dune,

Well said,

'Seriously large aircraft' - oh dear how very embarassing.....talk about letting yourself down!

I think this guy belongs in the same box as 411A.

:yuk:

[ARMGAT]

Looking at Drop the Pilot posts, I agree, this man is most definitely EK OPS Management.

So for pilots looking at EK as an employer and wonder what kind of managers will be deciding on their careers, looking at DtP post will give you an insight in how this chap thinks about his colleagues.

[Backwater]

DTP
EK is a shadow of it's former self regarding Ts & Cs incl pay. It's no illusion but blindingly obvious fact. Smell the coffee old son.

PS I never eat the sambos anyway

[Andu]

Off the subject of the thread, I know, but this is addressed to ARMGAT.

Just a wild guess, ARMGAT, but should we all be saying “Welcome back to the Middle East page in your new guise, Cap56”? (You seem to have gained a few followers over the last few months, Ca… Cap.)

Getting back to the subject of the thread, I think Drop the Pilot must be the only pilot in the company who likes the “free” soggy London sandwiches – I certainly don’t, and I don’t think I’ve seen anyone eat them since they’ve been individually wrapped.

So if they’re “free”, we should just cop it sweet and be grateful, whatever state they’re in, DtP? Could you be the one who asked for them to be individually wrapped and you’re a bit miffed that someone has had the temerity to disagree with your decision?

If we’re going to have a vote for all the world to see, (and not as a private, in-house matter as the captain DtP seems to love to hate intended) I vote for “hurd ‘n’ crusty” rather than “sarin-wrapped ‘n’ soggy”.

I see soggy sandwiches as a serious reduction in my contracted Ts & Cs!!

[goody]

does anyone from ek who can say good stuff about the company or your stay in dubai.
i see too many not so nice inputs everywhere.
can someone come fwd and share a nice story for the rest of us who wanna be emirts pilot.

[Uplink]

Hi Goody,

I have been here several years now and still enjoy it. The majority of the bad press on this forum comes from a very small minority. There are 1100+ pilots in EK now and as you can see there are not 1100 people knocking the company. This place is not for everybody but it is better than what I had.

There is nothing else out there that is better so dont base your decision on the crap you read on here. Emirates is like any company in the world today be it flying or non flying. It all comes down to cost cutting and economics. There is nothing myself or anyone else can do to change that. Our terms and conditions are the same industry standard for this type of work. There are pros and cons with every company. Its like politics, who ever runs the country will screw you they just do it in different ways.

Come and see for yourself. Basic psychology dictates that if the people who moan on this forum have a better offer they would have already left. Instead there is nothing better out there for the majority so they have to stay here and make everyone else miserable listening to their whining and moaning. They are welcome to have an opinion thats ok but if they dont like it then leave. I like it but thats just my opinion !

[00bultril]

Goody

Mate, this is more for for my benefit than yours, here goes my take on EK.
Been here since Google started up and some Southern rugby team took the world cup.
Kids go to top schools almost 100% paid by EK, no Vodaphone T-shirt preggar teen age girls, no yobbo 12-16yr old bully thugs.
All parents have half-decent jobs.
Wx is truly as described elsewhere on this site.
Golf, as much as you like for next to nothing, thanks to EPC, play top courses during summer for bargain rates.
Got 2 cars with combined engine capacity bigger than council flats.
Social life that you have to reign in, or your liver will reject you.
Sorry I didn't run spell check but have to:
Turn the bottles in the wine collection.
Go to gym over looking the sea.
Go watch 7's
Buy meat for this evenings BBQ (here people only eat fillet)
Book Friday brunch (maid's day off, so got to eat out for lesss than 30 quid for entire family - incl. booze)
O, almost forgot to pay the living in maid there, #300 pound @ month, little extra for all the baby sitting due to above social life.
Almost forgot the gardener, he is 40 pound/ mnth for a daily visit.
Got to check provident fund, a disaster, standing at 135000 us.
Got to phone EMAAR to fix some problems in the house I bought, the thing has only grown 55% in 9 mnths, bother!!
Got to check on the flats in UK.
Got to book French holiday house for this summer.
The Missus wants a convertable now, got to check paper, will keep the above 2 massive cars for camping in the desert and the convert for winter months (never had 3 cars back home)
Well thats it, recovering from last night, not working for 8 straight days now, that's in 2nd bottom bid group.
Come join us, even as a DEC, these guys will not say anything to your face, their form of rudeness to you will be taking the best pre-dep sandwiches, without giving you (the bad DEC) a choice.
Hope that helps.

Dubbel nul
:cool:

[CAYNINE]

Goddy Uppy and bultril,

Bravo Bravo Bravo!!!!!

I too get sick to death hearing the constant whining from a small percentage of disruptive counter productive folk in EK.

I love the place, have always wanted to work for EK and wake every day still amazed that I have a job as good as this.

Anyone from down under, please open up some of the local southern media and talk to the guys down there who have to now buy their endorsements, and sit on lousy wages for ever and await an upgrade in say conservatively 5 to 10 years.

Not to mention tax, rent, education.......

Hmmmm.... I think I'll stick with EK.

[Vagrant]

Run for cover guys. Those are blasphemous words in the ears of Quod and a few others. Let's face it, not everyone makes a good expat, so some find it easier to complain and be consumed by the slightest of things, rather than make the best of it while it lasts. Life is unfair, get over it, relax and enjoy it whilst you have it. In the grand scheme of things, EK and Dubai aint half bad.

V

[Uplink]

Finally some of the majority coming on here and talking sense.

I have just had a pm from a person who shall remain anonymous telling me that I was blaspheming by saying that we were creating a false impression to the would be joiners.

Listen, if you dont think you are paid enough in EK then leave. If you find a better job and think it would be better than here.... guess what ......leave (but let us know what the job is) Just stop moaning. I have heard less moaning at a pensioners knitting club. I have to say that more money would be nice. But is it ever enough. I could earn 100,000 dhs a month and it would not be enough. You work for an arab company and no matter how much you moan nothing will change until THEY want it to.

As my colleagues say above; you get a salary, school fees, housing allowance, medical, dental subsidised travel, a choice of rostering, a choice of leave, provident fund etc all paid for. I never got any of this in my last job. I had to beg for a day off (before having to lick the bottom of the lake clean with my tongue......) It is not perfect, but what is. What is the definition of perfect now in the career you have chosen. Someone told me that United pilots were getting 420,000 US a year. They have just opted for a 35% pay cut. A 50% cut is still about 3 times what I earn. Nothing is perfect, I bet there are people in United moaning about the money. In fact worrying about whether their job will be there next year. This is only MY opinion, I like it here, I like the weather, the lifestyle and the flying. I think the package could be better, but it could be worse. I still earn less than I did in my last company and that is from several years ago. My lifestyle however is 100 times better. I have now got 2 new cars which not only can I afford but even afford the petrol. What we pay for a gallon here the Brits pay for a litre. Lets talk about taxes............in fact lets not.

Look you can have an opinion, but sitting here moaning is not doing you, or anyone else that actually likes it here, any favours. I will have immense respect for you if you dont like it to polish off the old cv and leave. But to sit and moan ??

Enough, I have some overtime to earn now. I think this one will pocket me 2500 dhs this month. Could be better......but better than nothing eh?.

To 00bultril; I have to say I think you are paying both the housemaid and the gardner a little too much. !!

[Shake]

OObultril,

You've obviously ridden EK on the way up and are content to ride it on the way down. You have your command & have done very well out of it and again; good for you. That was what many should and continue to expect when joining. BUT IT HAS CHANGED.

Schools are not 100% available or 100% paid for...

8 Days off are the exception and not the rule...

Commands are under threat by the DECs you would so like to see and you belittle their impact by quotes such as the most they can expect as a response on the flight deck is the F/Os food... Yes there are those who wait 10-15 years for a command in other companies, but they are on command salaries well before their commands as senior F/Os, ask TCAS.

2 cars and another on the way...flats...good on you. A home in the desert...fantastic...you are alright Jack. But do you really believe that you represent the NORM Jack?

EK has worked for you and it would seem that you have been largely unaffected by recent changes...great. Many pilots like you have stood by and watched as T & Cs changed in other companies content to let other whiners try and do something about it, happy to accept any outcome but as long as you are OK...well that's OK, stuff anyone else.

As for Vages comment about being a 'good expat' then I guess we will have to take a leaf out of OOs book and not complain or get consumed with issues that has and will change our lives here. Just practice touching your toes down at the gym which has a view of the sea in anticipation of the next shafting. And when EK is eventually trashed i guess you will move on and help passively destroy another company or just retire on your winnings.


Yep, life is unfair but it can be a little less unfair if some could accept that things are not going well and something has to be done like trying to standing your ground and not accept that things will only get worse.

[Holding Short]

I think Emirates is still one of the top airlines in the business. Its much better than many other carrier-Many know that thats why they dont leave or complain.

I think when some of you were living in your home country-did you spend the same amount of your time to badmouth your company you used to work for-dont think so. I think the biggest issue for some is that in their oppinion the company is run by foreigners not by their countrymen as it should.

It seems to be that upgrading is a big argument at emirates. Well at some companies it takes 10-15 years-No complaints there. And it seems after reading some of the posts that some pilots may not be even mature enough for the left seat.(Experience is not everything) Ok enough, but just take a look how many positive post you find about your company within the last 2 months-not many. It cant all be that bad.;)

HS

[Backwater]

Life is ok here until:
Your shiny 4x4 gets trashed by some fool and you end up with the pink slip, or worse in jail;
You find yourself in the office fighting for your job because persons unknown wrote a report on you for some imagined misdemeanour;
You have a common mole diagnosed as cancer and spend several worrying weeks before finally getting an informed overseas opinion;
Your house is burgled but you end up in jail because the police found that your liquor license had expired;
You are assaulted in Satwa, report it to the police and end up in jail for fighting;
Every month you find it harder to cope financially because your salary is in US$ and falls well behind inflation;
Your brand new house in the Meadows starts developing serious cracks and nobody wants to take responsibility;
etc etc.

There is a darker side to life in Dubai, and it relates to control over one's life. Those that think they are in control are lucky. Deluded but lucky.

00bultril: Inviting more DECs? You show a disregard for your fellow pilots to the extent that you must be management.

Judging by the opinions of the guys I fly with, the numbers of disgruntled pilots in this ailine does not constitute a minority. Quite the opposite.

[ernestkgann]

If your so happy with your lot, why waste all that time you could be using playing golf and for shopping for your fourth car trolling through prune? It's also entirely possible that this burst of unbridled optimism represents only the tiny minority of people that are truly happy. But good on you guys for being positive.

[00bultril]

cool: Good to here there are other happy guys.

Ernest & shake.
Working for EK is like anything else in life.
Marriage.
Your car.
Your preference for girls, goats or boys.
The food you eat.
Your profession.
Religion.
YOU CHOOSE. If you no like - you change it.
If you can’t change it now, prepare yourself to make the change that will make you happy.
Buy a new car.
Get a new wife or become single.
Leave EK or start looking at least.
Ernest that’s why I’m on Pprune, keeping myself informed on trends in my occupation and browse for potentially better jobs.
After all, Pprune is the only communication tool we have @ EK, and more effective than any FCN.
I urge you to read a little book: “WHO STOLE MY CHEESE” (or something like that)
Well got to get that fire started.

Dubbel nul

[White Knight]

I've sat back and read with interest over the last few days:cool:

I was accused of having the old "rose tinted" a couple of years back:yuk: My only gripes with EK are the DEC's (not required) and the fact that inflation is hugely overhauling pay!! But to hear people like BACKWATER talk about not being in control.... PLEASE:mad: No-one was pulling my strings today when I drove around town, did some shopping, went home, had a barbie etc. YOU are the paranoid deluded one old son:{

I could put it into colloquial english for you moaners - if you really don't like it - FFO KCUF.

By the way 411a, coming here isn't always about $$$$$$.

[Mick Jagger]

Well as you may know me and the band are off to greener pastures. EK is not for me right now, but in fairness remains a very good employer. I agree with previous posts that terms and conditions have been shamelessly erroded but this job still has a lot to offer. The lifestyle in Dubai is generally OK and the weather for 6-7 months of the year is quite nice. Cars are cheap and so is gas. There is lots to do and see here but beware that you will have to be very strict with your budget if you wish to enjoy many of the attractions. The road to command is a little hazy right now but let's be honest even with DECs the time to LHS for a major widebody flag carrier is still pretty remarkable.
EK is an exciting place to work, seldom a week goes by without some even more sensational announcement on expansion/routes /purchases.
Accomodation as generally OK with all utilities paid( where else do you get that?) also the limo to work is a nice little bonus.
On the down side the bottom line in terms of disposable income at the end of the day is way way below market rate. Our company is running in pusuit of a target of XX fils per passenger seat miles(may be company confidential so I will withold the figure). This has placed enormous pressure on middle management to come up with the goods especially given the backdrop of unprecedented expansion.
People built this company and there was a time when EK recognised that. We have now lost the personal touch in pursuit of profit and the effect of this is that we have lost sight of what made us a success in the first place. The product is now mediocre in all respects and we have already had a very clear warning in JNB of the dangers of a fiscal dominated business plan.
I am leaving because for me and the band the scales don't balance anymore and I don't like the way we do business now. For many in different circumstances this job can be very very rewarding and I would give it my recomendation as long as the points discussed here and previously are factored in to any decision to come to EK. We are all different and have different goals and values.

Right better put my head down....INCOMMING!!!
:D

[Shake]

WK conceeds that pay has fallen well behind inflation and all he can add is that we should all just FO if we do not like it...very constructive. OO thanks for the advice, I didn't realise it was so simple to change...

So just fall back, don't complain and let it rot. If only you guys would FFO KCUF perhaps we could get some real change. There are pilots in airlines which have fought to maintain their T&Cs, who did not standby and watch as the job decended into mediocraty, who refuse to FO to make it easier on those without the backbone to do something about it.

Good luck Mick.

[Vagrant]

"There are pilots in airlines which have fought to maintain their T&Cs, who did not standby and watch as the job decended into mediocraty"...SHAKE

I guaranty that these pilots had representation, backing, and legal recourse, should they be victimised for "fighting". I would be interested to hear how you propose to "do something about it" here at EK.

V:confused:

[JonBoy80]

You think the flight deck department has issues.. LOL..
hahahahha.. Try working as cabin crew.. Have to say, U guys are gr8.... Expecially the immaculate aussie flight deck.. What can I say guys.. You rule.!!!.. Saying, that.. Most of u do aswell.:).

Cheers

Jonboy

"gimme gimme watar"

[Cerberus]

The above discussion is interesting because it all comes down to perspective! Those that think EK is great think that all the whiners are in the minority. Those that think EK sucks think that the guys saying it is great must be from management. One thing is for certain though; on this site you get a minority view. There are 1200 pilots and less than 5% post. So how do you find out the truth?

Well, as I have said it all come down to perspective. If you are a BA 747-400 Captain then EK is unlikely to be for you. If however you don't have a job or come from a lesser tier outfit then it might just be paradise.

I will get to the facts later but now I will tell you my perspective. I am happy in Dubai but not convinced EK is headed in the right direction. I came here because I couldn't stand 7 months of sh*tty Northern European weather. The sun makes me smile, grey cloud p*sses me off! This means that I don't mind it when it is too hot in the summer. If I came from Florida or South Africa I am certain the weather here would be a negative factor rather than a positive one.

One of the guys quotes that he has 2 cars and that is a great thing. I have 2 cars and one is brand new but only because my family were taken out on a roundabout and the car was written off. We have 2 cars because there is no viable alternative from public transport which is quite unusual in a big city.

We all know about the weather, we know about the back of the clock flying and the rostering. The old bidding system was great, the new system is still working through teething problems. Hopefully next month we will know for sure whether or not more guys are on reserve.

So what are the facts:

7 months of nice weather, 5 months of crap!

Driving dangerous! UAE nationals 4 times death rate of rest of world, Ex-pats 1.5 times.

Crime does occur. Burglary does happen, drugs do exist and the police will not take your side in an argument against a local with waster. There are a lot of kids with a lot of money and different ethics from your average Western family.

Schools are great but hard to get into. The academics are good but if your child is gifted or needs extra help there is little support available. It is excellent at primary level but less so at secondary level. Everyone talks about the outdoor lifestyle but there is little decent competitive sport or high level arts training because there are too few schools and pupils. The schools tend to be quite elitist in offering opportunities to a small clique of kids.

Most kids are coached at sport rather than playing it with their buddies. EK pay about 90% for the Brit schools, less for the others. They are building new schools so hopefully places will become available. A lot of parents begin to realise the shortcomings when their kids become teenagers. Often the choice is to split the family by sending them home with the dad commuting. Non airline families also do this; normally when the kids are around about 12 or 13.

Terms and conditions do change regularly. In the last 4 years the following things have happened:
Time to command was 4500hrs now 6000.
Accelerated commands were introduced.
DECs were introduced but guys meeting the requirements within the company were excluded.
The medical cover has been downgraded.
The requirements to be elegible for profit share have changed for the worse.
The credit rules have recently changed. Sims, Office days and standbys do not contribute to overtime.
Training T&Cs went down the tubes but have recently got better for the junior guys. The more senior guys will lose.
Recruiters and CRM guys T&Cs improved but have now taken a serious dive. This means they could do 2 weeks recruiting and then a months flying in the other 2 weeks and lose cash to a guy that does 10 days work. 1 day in the office pays the same as 1 hrs overtime but carries no credit.

Inflation does happen. I am not going to take a view on what the right level of pay is but just present the facts. In 1992 an F/O was paid 15,000 AED/month, now it is 17,000. In that time inflation has run at 63%. So in real terms spending power has been reduced by nearly 50%.

The exchange rate currently sucks. In Sterling, my pay has reduced from £4700/mth 3 years ago to £3700 now. I am taking the long term view and keeping my money offshore. I hope the exchange rate will improve. A new joining F/O today would earn less than £29k/year and take home about £2300/month with the current UK exchange rate. That might be tough to live on if time to command does slip to 5 years+

The provident fund equities has under performed the stock market significantly over the last few years and you will need to save more money to retire.

You can now buy a house in Dubai but buy carefully and either for the short or long term. My opinion only: the market is a bubble, most of the properties are being bought by offshore investors to let. Sadly there are not enough ex-pats to rent all the properties. There are about 300,000 ex-pats and nearly 30,0000 properties coming onto the market. 10% is too high a driver so in the short term guys will make money, then it will crash but if you want to live in a nice house for the long term it should be ok. Most of the folks that say it isn't a bubble can't remember Dotcoms. Last week an estate agent lady that was a housewife 3 months ago told me that, based on her vast experience, I couldn't lose.

You do not have much protection from the company, from the locals, from the house builders, the crap drivers etc. You still need a local partner in most industries if you want to set up in business.

So there, apart from my opinion on property, are the facts. At the moment it isn't bad enough for me to walk. Back to perspective, if I could get a similarly paid, secure job in California I'd be gone; but I can't.

When I applied there was never anything negative written about EK. As time moves on I read more and more negative stuff. The T&Cs have been eroded and the exchange rate (not EK's fault) sucks but like most people it is too much hassle for me to move at the moment. Were I sitting in the UK at the moment looking at the £29k salary and an ever increasing time to command with DECs in the mix I am not sure I would join; even for the sun. But....its all about perspective!

Cerberus




:zzz: :zzz:

[00bultril]

Cerberus, mate well done.

It takes me an entire night and 13 pints to verbalise your post.
Amen brother!
That is my life in a nutshell.

Dubbel nul

[crapflying]

Perspective is a very important fact in a persons view of an airline both from the inside, or from the outside.
For those of you trying to get the message out that Emirates is not what it seems, you only have to look at who is applying and who is coming out here. It is either people from an airline just about to go bankrupt, or from people who are unemployed, or pilots from low cost carriers. Needless to say these people are happy to have a job, or a job with better t&cs. I would be doing just the same if I was in their shoes. Do not waste your time in trying to convince the world of pilots that Emirates is worth it, or is not worth it. Pilots from realy good companies who are in their mid careers would never leave their good jobs to come out here and fly the shiny jets. They are doing just that at home with better conditions, and with representation.
It is realy funny to watch people get worked up either way, since everyone's life is different. What clicks for me does not click for others, and so on.
For those of you who like Dubai great, for those of you who do not like Dubai what can I say. For those of you who like Emirates and for those of you who do not like Emirates you should not see each other as people in different groups, but rather as one unit trying to improve things. I cannot see any cap on the possibility of improvement of things even if they are great. You only get in life what you think you deserve. If you think you are not worth any more than management wants to give you, then you will accept any lowering in your T&Cs. There are always ways to get what is fair."
My word of advise based on facts is that Emirates just like anyother airline around the world is just a job. It has good points and it has bad points. The good and the bad depend on what one is looking for. If it is a quick command, with not so much flying, and great money then Emirates is not the place to come anymore.
If it is stability and big airplanes you are looking for, then for the forseable future this is the place to come.
I do not know if t&cs will change again in the near future, and if they do, historicaly it is for the worst, (unless a company has unions)
but I do know that two of my friends have been invited for an interview in the new year for DEC positions on the 777 and or 330. What does this mean?
Emirates management is making decisions based on their view of best solutions for the company. They have to do this as their decisions are based on measurable numbers, and not the abstract pilot morale.....
I will be having a go-away party in the spring so I will be inviting all of you to come for a goodby drink

[ernestkgann]

A fair and balanced account indeed Mr Cerberus.

[White Knight]

Ok Shake - you say I should FO 'cos I have no backbone!!!!!!


So what the hell have YOU been doing about it??? You show me your backbone and tell us what you've done about it! However, I think you're one of the whinging w@nkers who talks the talk but can't walk the walk. Before you tell me to FO have the balls to do something constructive YOURSELF:mad:

I'm often accused of having no originality - wrong. I just don't beat around the bush. Shake - just get on an aeroplane out of Dubai and make all of our lives more enjoyable, unless you can put your ballbag where your mouth is of course:E :E

[SecurID]

Cerberus, you have hit the proverbial nail on the head! Well done!

To all EK wannabes, read the aforementioned Cerberus' post, it truly reflects the current situation.

[Shake]

Touched a nerve WK? You serve it, expect a return.

You could start by retrieving your head from wherever or whomever it is buried and perhaps you will see what is really happening instead of the ideal world you have created for yourself and for others to consume here on PP.

[BahrainLad]

Good post Ceberous.

A couple of Qs about property 'investment' in Dubai. Is it true that if you decide to sell you have to sell it back to (Emaar, Nakheel etc.) at a price set by them? And, also, presumably as demand will never outstrip supply (they'll just build another Palm) this will affect the growth in value of your investment?

[rainforest]

Talking about perspective, those who thought that nothing will change in EK are out of touch with reality. A growing company that has gone from 200+ pilots to almost 1200 in 7 years. They told me there use to be 3 days layovers in HKG, Malta and even SIN a few years back. That happened in many airlines when they were at an early stage. But, those days are over.
To those who whinge on this site, a lot of us wud like to hear suggestions. For those wannababes, read all these posts carefully and when you get the offer-pack, it will do you lots of good to sit down and do some maths. Bcoz if you don't, then we will hear you on pprune sooner or later.
For the time being, like a number of us here, I'm staying put and will keep searching for something better and within reach.

[jarops]

Hi all,

I am reading all these posts with great interest. It seems like there are so many EK pilots who are not happy with their situation in DXB. I think it should be time to leave for those guys. There are many, MANY, pilots around the globe who would like to be in your shoes. So, leave if you're not happy and give the position for those who would like to join EK.
If you look the situation anywhere around the world, all airlines are requiring more and more from their employees, just to maintain position in the battle. Markets are difficult and some loose and the other might win. Always two sides in every coin. The numerous days off, less work and more money are over, if you can't accept that, you loose the game.
I have been in contact to some pilots at EK, and I have got so many different answers HOW IT IS THERE?
I am currently invited for the assesment in this month, and honestly it's difficult to see where EK stands in today. I am really considering twice before my decision, if I pass the interview. It's not the money always the people looking for. I am currently on the left seat on B757, and looking for a stable company to work with. What do you think about this?:confused:

[EKBusDriver]

Hey Jarops,

I think your idea about leaving a place you work if you do not like it is very naive. Why should you leave? Why should employees always bend over and take the shafting? When I came here I was single and now I have a wife and a baby on the works. I think that because my situation has changed and therefore my needs, I should request more money from the company.... It does not work this way. We have a contract, and just as the company wants us to keep our side of the deal, so do we. (But they have not, you only need to look at previous posts to see what I meen, ie CERBERUS) We do contribute immensely in the expansion and profits of this company. Emirates, and for that matter any airline or business is a success because of its employees. The fancy words we hear about "Our company" should not just be on the brochures and the media, but should be a day to day operation.
In the time that I have been here, they have never asked for our input, they have only implemented some bright manager's idea about how things should change in order to benefit the company. I agree, competition is harder now than it was a few years ago, but they have so much talent here, that if they tapped into it, management might even get some input which would be more cost effective and upset people even less.
At the end of the day, it would be nice to know that when you are getting shafted it is done honestly and spelled out for what it is, and not try to market it in a nice package and try to convince us that "in actual fact it is in our favour, and all this time we were losing out." I like things the way they were before, and if management wants to improve my T&Cs let me participate in the great new changes.
You want to come down here and join the happy club be my guest. No one says that Emirates is just bad. There are good things here aswelll. What people are saying on pprune and most of the time in flights is that it definetely is not what it used to be, and we do not compare with the major airlines of the world.
What you and everyone aspiring to come here must understand is that, just because you are having problems in your companies does not meen that by joining Emirates you are solving them or getting rid of them. You are going to get similar ones down here aswell. (And you are going to be at the bottom of the seniority aswell.)
On the other hand if you have already made up your mind what a great place this is, and how great things are on this side of the grass come and join then and let us moaners down here complain for non existant things....

[donpizmeov]

" Negotiated work place agreement" Almost fell off my chair when I read that one on the middle east forum!!!

JAROPS
As has been said a million times on this forum, you can not expect the views of this forum to help you make your mind up if EK is worth leaving a left hand seat job for or not. That is entirely up to you. The forum may spark a few questions to be asked when you are here.
For some driving a car with a large engine is all they need to be happy here it seems...for otheres EK beats the pants off the two bit outfit they were employed at before here, so they to are happy.
The equipment, layovers, destinations here are all great. Don't think you will find too many who have any complaints about those.
A few things have changed dramatically recently, and most of these have been to the detrement of the pilot body.
Firtsly;
1. Bid system changed....in itself not such a bad thing. And if it were allowed to work the way it was designed this could have been a very good thing ideed. But it would seem, that this change, and the focus of one management type, to stop pilots having strings of days off, has meant that rosters of 100 to 110 hrs with min (8) days off are now concidered the norm for Captains. Would you believe that one Captain I know, even had a less productive roster reissued to him, to limit his days off!!!!

2. Stick hour Vs block hour change. When flying on a heavy crew, the amount of the actual block time to be used when calculating max flying hours per month is reduced. Hence it is now legal here to fly more than 100hrs in 28days if those hours were done while flying long haul and heavy crew. See above note re rosters!

3. New Way of calculating pay. The pilot body has just recieved a pay cut. This has been in the pipeline for some time. Pilots are no longer payed for duties that are not done within an airplane ie reserve duties (and we now get lots of these), SEP training, Licence renewals are now all done for free.

These three changes happened independently of each other...but all have a pretty big effect on the package and moral at EK. And all happened with no say at all from the pilot body!!

Airbus FOs have just been told that their commands are going to slow down for while.......but DECs may be required to fill vacancies on the Boeing. Of note here, DECs do not need to be type qualified to join. So they will be offered a transition course, where as FOs here will not. Now I hope that this situation does change, as things around here often do, but I guess you can see this has not helped the moral of the Bus FOs.

Other things you need to find out about if they effect you are places at schools, time to command etc etc.

So to some up. Come on over and jump through the hoops. Stay a bit longer if you can, and take a good look around. If you have friends here, sit them down and pick their brains of what it is really all about. Ask as many questions as you can at the interview....but make sure you have enough info to make a truely balanced decision. As the costs of moving here, then moving home are great.

Good luck.

Don

[Cerberus]

Jarops, my man you should run for president immediately and start talking up the boom!! In the last 10 years I can think of 3 talked about booms and none of them have happened. First we had the US retirements recruiting boom that said the majors needed 10,000 pilots each over the next 10 years. Then the low cost boom and now the China boom.

Sadly; all that seems to have happened is that pilots have been laid off, salaries and conditions have worsened, and the new hires have been prepared to take any sh*tty package to get their foot on the bottom rung of the ladder. That worked fine when there were 20 steps or so to climb but now we are down to about 4.

Mr K F Hucker (like the name), I actually am not absolutely sure how many hours we are contracted to now because of the recent credit changes. Before we were contracted to 990/year but that was abated for leave, standbys, office duties and sims. Now we get no credit for the any of the above. It looks to me as if we are contracted to about 914. That means that a new F/O would get (believe it or not) $60/hr and a new Captain $91/hr. We don't pay tax and look pretty secure at the moment. (Lets hope Iran stay in their box) To put it into perspective, this is how EK compares in USD/Hr with the US carriers and Virgin even after their recent pay slashes.

New Captain:

EK $91/hr
United $189
Delta $198
US Air $146
NW $191
Virgin $214 (Todays exchange rate)

5 Year F/O (Just in case upgrades do slow)

EK $68
United $124
Delta $131
US Air $96
NW $122
Virgin $142 (Todays exchange rate)

Food for thought!!

Ceberus:ooh:

[ARMGAT]

Ryanair

174 $/Hr No tax

[jarops]

Thanks Ceberus!
I am running for the Presidency soon, then I can forget the entire Aviation world:O It seems like you have pretty good touch for the industry at the moment. I am very glad for the proper information you wrote.
I am trying to read the publications made about our industry which seems to wave in 7 years cycles and to stay optimistic. It is not always working! How long have you been at EK? Thanks, the list of current salaries in compare to other companies where crushing.

Thanks:ok: