bmir GLA-LCY?

[GLAMM]

Has anyone heard anything about this. The next bmi regional Embraer 135 servicing this route?

[bmiboyz]

Not heard that one YET! The next EMB135 euipped to land at LCY will take over from the damp leased ATR42 at Leeds operating the LBA to LCY.

[14 loop]

A reply to a thread on PPRuNe indicated that the damp leased ATR was to continue on into the Summer on LBA-LCY and that the first equipped ERJ135 was to do an undisclosed Scottish field to LCY.

However this was denied in another post, it indicated that the next ERJ135 wouldn't be equipped for LCY operations.

Time will tell.

[Headset starter]

Does anyone have any inside knowledge as to when the new aircraft are due to arrive? The first rumour was at the end of the year, now sometime next year. With the new type rating course starting within a week or so one would assume there is a new requirement for pilots over and above natural wastage.

Cheers,

HS

[we_never_change]

The ATR42 lease has been extended from 6months to 12months.

I thought Eastern were aquiring the ex Jetmagic ERJ135.

[Headset starter]

That's all very intersting...

So if the -135 arrives in early Jan without the steep approach kit, it'll be useless for the LBA-LCY route, which would be fine if the ATR's are being extended, but it will also be no good for the now rumoured GLA-LCY route. :(

It will be nice when the thing actually arrives and we learn a little bit more about what will be happening. I'm sure it could do some extra routes from ABZ-GRQ as they appear to be doing fantastically well, and I suppose it could be placed on some other routes at the weekend in order to allow a -145 to operate into LHR, releasing the Airbus guys to operate some winter charters.

With no flights from Glasgow to major European cities like Paris, Brussels, Oslo, Frankfurt, I'm sure that with proper advertising, a couple of trial routes can be negotiaed with mainline and the Star Alliance.

I'd also heard that the first aircraft to arrive was not from Jetmagic but was part new from Embraer, ie that it had not been operated by an airline, but was not fresh off the production line.

Vee shall see.

[GW76]

Correction- GSM soon to start operating direct to Paris from GLA

[Going loco]

Unless they buck their ideas up on LBA-LCY, that ATR may well be available for other duties. Counted 13 getting on board this morning, so god only knows what the off-peaks are like.

Before its too late, why doesn't someone go over to the North West and see how VLM are making a success of things, taking particular note of the (i) the schedule, (ii) the pricing, (iii) the promotion.

loco

[coasting]

Maybe Jet 2 should show them how it is done successfully with an LBA-LGW service 3 times a day. LGW would serve a far wider community than just a dedicated Hi-Co LCY flight. Any plans for one, now that a MAN-LGW service has been announced?

[Headset starter]

Inkjet,

Thats good gen, cheers for that. Good to see the company is moving in the right direction with fleet numbers anyway.

Loco,

VLM have done fantastically well. I remember on many occaisions the load factors on the MAN-LCY were 25%-30%, however this was on the midday sectors. First thing in the morning they were almost always 90%, and they had to start a second rotation in order to satisfy demand. I was always interested to find if people minded the 'prop' service to the capital, and many didn't mind, or even enjoyed the experience.

I always thought there was a distinct lack of a London service from LPL; I used the easyJet service from there to LTN, and found it was fantastic, except for the fact of using the train at the other end to get into central London. Unfortunately that stopped due to fees at LTN, and left a huge gap in the market.

When VLM rose to the challenge people thought traffic would be taken away from MAN, but that proved not to be the case. The service is first class, with very reliable aircraft.

I suppose on the LBA-LCY route, the level of service on the Atlantique aircraft should be the normal bmi, but it's unfortunate the service is not in bmi livery. I would say with constant 'in your face' style advertising at both ends, the route will do well.

HS

[Going loco]

FlyBE were on the LBA route much the same time as KLM UK were on the MAN route - both struggled and both pulled off of it.

The thing is, VLM have addressed why it didn't work for KLM UK and this is reflected in their performance. bmi on the other hand have just come onto the LBA route with FlyBe's old schedule, fare structure and stand-offish approach to promoting the thing and are probably scratching their heads, wondering why only 13 punters turned up this morning and why the booked loads for the off-peaks would fit into a taxi.

So bmi, look and learn at the timings of VLMs 5 x day service from LPL. Remember that the business punter is probably not interested in a £60 return restricted ticket no more than he is prepared to pay £300 for flexibility. And most of all, remember that you need to tell people about the service, preferably at both ends of the route.

loco

[GLAMM]

V interesting stuff. bmir promotion/advertising isnt the best. Glasgow to Knock went down like a lead balloon with loads regularly under 10. Advertising around this area was v little or none!

[Headset starter]

Well said!

HS

[Going loco]

Inkjet - I'm not getting into a full fare vs loco debate or questioning their ability to get bums on seats to EDI. My point is specific to the LCY route and whether they have got things in place to make it work. In my humble opinion, it looks and feels too much like the short-lived FlyBe operation of a few years ago and not enough like like the successful VLM routes out of LPL/MAN. I just question the decision to copy something that failed instead of learning from something that is working.

loco

[5150]

I thought it was in bmir colours.........?!!

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/710091/M/

[Headset starter]

Doh! :ouch:

Assumptions are a what?.... :O

Just from looking at the fares for next Monday I would say the loads should be very reasonable indeed. It appears to me they have similar fares to VLM, allowing early bookers a cheap deal, and those wanting flexibility to pay for it. VLM certainly did not let business travellers get away with it. As a quick comparison, both VLM and bmi charge £300 return for a fully flexible ticket. Granted, it would make sense to offer a ticket which is semi-flexible, such as Eastern do, allowing one change at no charge, and being priced sensibly between the cheapest and the fully flexible.

The only thing missing is the extra rotation late evening, which I'm surprised they don't have.

They could also make the most of LCY opening on Saturday morning and attract some Xmas shoppers, before they return on Sunday evening.

HS

[GLAMM]

Monday not looking too busy at the moment.
LBA-LCY loads are 18,5,5,7 for the four and northbound they are 13,4,13,11. Of all of them 7 are business class. Still some work do be done me thinks :hmm:

[14 loop]

A valid point from Headset starter re Saturday mornings.

I have used the LCY-LPL service once on a Saturday morning back May and will do so again in a fortnight (£37.10 single booked in advance).

The inbound load to LCY on that occasion was healthy - the Theatre & Shopping brigade much in evidence.

The northbound load was equally healthy but was mainly ex-pat Liverpudlian's going to Anfield for a match. I would guess you could substitute that for Toffee fans when they're at Goodison on a Saturday.

I would have thought that a Saturday morning run ex LBA could pick-up enough weekend London breakers plus ex-pat Tykes going north to justify it.

[682ft AMSL]

Mon and Fri generally aren't great days, but those loads equate to a sub-20% load on the ATR (and would be just 26% on the -135).

I'd be interested to see how Tues or Weds compared but if they're typical across the week then no wonder there are genuine concerns about the inability / unwillingness of bmi and the officials at LBA & LCY to effectively promote the route. I'm frankly amazed that given LBA and LCY both pushed for this and lobbied various airlines quite hard and that bmi have gone to the trouble of leasing in a dedictaed machine to do it, that all 3 parties seem to be sat on their backsides watching this debacle unfold.

682

[Teddy Robinson]

Look forward to seeing the Embs back at LCY... purely for the entertainment value !

[GLAMM]

FYI TUE
LBA-LCY 15,8,9,9
LCY-LBA 9,5,10,15

[Headset starter]

Surely Mondays and Fridays are when you make your money? I heard a guy from Ryanair, now with an Asian carrier, that they could basically stop flying on a Tuesday and Wednesday and make more money.

Promtion, promotion, promotion. As we can all identify this, I'm assuming the marketing people also see it. They obviously need more resources.

HS

[Fried_Chicken]

bmi Regionals next ERJ has just been rolled out of the factory in Brazil so all going well, should be delivered after the new year.

Hopefully it is in bmi colours not that boring STAR Alliance colourscheme

Fried Chicken

[INKJET]

A clever trick, given that i was watching it doing circuits in Aberdeen at about 3pm (G-RJXL) on Wednesday the 22nd? there are no more to follow from Brazil the next one (Ex - Eastern) will join the fleet at the end of Jan until mid 2006. by which time we could all be working out of Donny Hall i hear, can't come soon enough (watch for high profile management resignations in the new year) mainly from the buggers upstairs. If we had as many aircraft as company cars we might make some dosh.

Cheers

Burt

PS it was in the new `coke` color scheme

[MAN_Dispatcher]

Is the fact that is is missing the 'regional' titles anything to read into perhaps?!

It is in the bmi livery as worn by the mainline fleet (well, the few which actually wear the 'new' colours)....

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=741415&WxsIERv=RW1icmFlciBFUkotMTM1&WdsYXMg=Qk1JIEJyaXRpc2ggTWlkbGFuZA%3D%3D&QtODMg=UmVjaWZlIC0gR3VhcmFyYXBlcyAoUkVDIC8gU0JSRik%3D&ERDLTkt=QnJhemls&ktODMp=RGVjZW1iZXIgMjIsIDIwMDQ%3D&BP=0&WNEb25u=Um9kcmlnbyBCZXJ0b2xpIFJvY2hh&xsIERvdWdsY=Ry1SSlhM&MgTUQtODMgKE=R29pbmcgdG8gRmVybmFuZG8gZGUgTm9yb25oYSwgbmV4dCB zdG9wIG9mIGRlbGl2ZXJ5IGZsaWdodC4gW1Byb3ZpYSAxMDBGXQ%3D%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=MTE2&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwNC0xMi0yMw%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes&sok=V0hFUkUgIChNQVRDSCAoYWlyY3JhZnQsYWlybGluZSxwbGFjZSxwaG90 b19kYXRlLGNvdW50cnkscmVtYXJrLHBob3RvZ3JhcGhlcixlbWFpbCx5ZWFy LHJlZyxhaXJjcmFmdF9nZW5lcmljLGNuLGNvZGUpIEFHQUlOU1QgKCcrImct cmp4bCInIElOIEJPT0xFQU4gTU9ERSkpICBPUkRFUiBCWSBwaG90b19pZCBE RVND&photo_nr=1

[eurostar builder]

Dont know if anybody has noticed the link for ex Jetmagic emb135 on this list and its now wearing a new g- registration.

[bmifox]

I flew down from LBA this morning to LCY on the ATR and it was qiute busy!. I think we had 25 pax on board. Not bad for a bank holiday Tuesday. The 413 to LHR which departed 10 mins later was overbooked so i jumped on the LCY...very handy for standby people who don't HAVE to go to LHR!

[jamesbrownontheroad]

... which also might suggest a possible bmir BHD - LCY?

I didn't understand BE's logic of flying BHD - LCY if some of the services went via IOM. Operationally, that might make sense, but it removes the advantage of flying direct from city airport to city airport if the journey takes two hours.

Now BE have gone, and with more Embs on the way, could BD mainline at BHD be supplemented by a couple of well timed direct flights to LCY? If BMI can serve two London airports from LBA, then I reckon it could work.

*j*

[airhumberside]

For BHD-LCY, VLM may also be a possibilty

[flybe.com]

Although flybe, or British European as it was then, did make a bit of a hash of LBA-LCY, ie. spending all the marketing budget on the name change leaving insufficient funds to promote the service, and then dropping the route just as it became popular; a direct BHD-LCY service was introduced and well marketed. However, the loads were insufficient to sustain the route, and the bean-counters at EXT assessed that the main LCY traffic was from IOM, so the direct service was dropped. I'm sure other operators will have researched this history, and are therefore unlikely to risk it.

I hope bmi Regional do very well on LBA-LCY.

[INKJET]

A good plan, except there are no more 135 or 145 for that matter on the way or still `offically` on order. Expect a total of 13 units plus one wet lease ATR 42 for at least the next 18 months, including a dry lease 145 ex Eastern. 2005 will be all about mainline longhaul. The next regional aircraft are unlikely before late 06/early 07 and will be bigger than ERJ. But a lot can and will happen before then.

Right time to get my ski's packed and hit the slopes and bars

Cheers, happy new year to all

Burt

[ALLMCC]

Flybe used to operate BHD - LCY direct until around 2 years ago - the problem with this route was that low fares were never available as with all other BHD routes - the return fare was almost always over £200. With the option of less than half of that to LGW. it was hardly surprising the route was poorly supported.

With the right level of fare and suitable aircraft, this route could work - in fact, VLM took over LCY - JER when Flybe relinquished it so they might be a possible candidate - Euromanx are supposed to take over BHD - IOM on the 10 January - it remains to be seen whether it actually happens!

[juan who nose?]

Judging by the LCY website the airport do not seem confident that Euromanx will start on 10 Jan..... they state on the main page that Flybe operations cease on the 9th and that they are actively seeking a replacement - if Euromanx were likely to start surely the airport would be saying so and offering a reassuring message...

Then again, given that Euromanx is only a ticket provider for Denim Air presumably the real question is will Denim Air start flying on 10 Jan????