bmir GLA-LCY?
Join Date: Nov 2002
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A reply to a thread on PPRuNe indicated that the damp leased ATR was to continue on into the Summer on LBA-LCY and that the first equipped ERJ135 was to do an undisclosed Scottish field to LCY.
However this was denied in another post, it indicated that the next ERJ135 wouldn't be equipped for LCY operations.
Time will tell.
However this was denied in another post, it indicated that the next ERJ135 wouldn't be equipped for LCY operations.
Time will tell.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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When?
Does anyone have any inside knowledge as to when the new aircraft are due to arrive? The first rumour was at the end of the year, now sometime next year. With the new type rating course starting within a week or so one would assume there is a new requirement for pilots over and above natural wastage.
Cheers,
HS
Cheers,
HS
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That's all very intersting...
So if the -135 arrives in early Jan without the steep approach kit, it'll be useless for the LBA-LCY route, which would be fine if the ATR's are being extended, but it will also be no good for the now rumoured GLA-LCY route.
It will be nice when the thing actually arrives and we learn a little bit more about what will be happening. I'm sure it could do some extra routes from ABZ-GRQ as they appear to be doing fantastically well, and I suppose it could be placed on some other routes at the weekend in order to allow a -145 to operate into LHR, releasing the Airbus guys to operate some winter charters.
With no flights from Glasgow to major European cities like Paris, Brussels, Oslo, Frankfurt, I'm sure that with proper advertising, a couple of trial routes can be negotiaed with mainline and the Star Alliance.
I'd also heard that the first aircraft to arrive was not from Jetmagic but was part new from Embraer, ie that it had not been operated by an airline, but was not fresh off the production line.
Vee shall see.
So if the -135 arrives in early Jan without the steep approach kit, it'll be useless for the LBA-LCY route, which would be fine if the ATR's are being extended, but it will also be no good for the now rumoured GLA-LCY route.
It will be nice when the thing actually arrives and we learn a little bit more about what will be happening. I'm sure it could do some extra routes from ABZ-GRQ as they appear to be doing fantastically well, and I suppose it could be placed on some other routes at the weekend in order to allow a -145 to operate into LHR, releasing the Airbus guys to operate some winter charters.
With no flights from Glasgow to major European cities like Paris, Brussels, Oslo, Frankfurt, I'm sure that with proper advertising, a couple of trial routes can be negotiaed with mainline and the Star Alliance.
I'd also heard that the first aircraft to arrive was not from Jetmagic but was part new from Embraer, ie that it had not been operated by an airline, but was not fresh off the production line.
Vee shall see.
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Unless they buck their ideas up on LBA-LCY, that ATR may well be available for other duties. Counted 13 getting on board this morning, so god only knows what the off-peaks are like.
Before its too late, why doesn't someone go over to the North West and see how VLM are making a success of things, taking particular note of the (i) the schedule, (ii) the pricing, (iii) the promotion.
loco
Before its too late, why doesn't someone go over to the North West and see how VLM are making a success of things, taking particular note of the (i) the schedule, (ii) the pricing, (iii) the promotion.
loco
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Unless they buck their ideas up on LBA-LCY, that ATR may well be available for other
Maybe Jet 2 should show them how it is done successfully with an LBA-LGW service 3 times a day. LGW would serve a far wider community than just a dedicated Hi-Co LCY flight. Any plans for one, now that a MAN-LGW service has been announced?
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Inkjet,
Thats good gen, cheers for that. Good to see the company is moving in the right direction with fleet numbers anyway.
Loco,
VLM have done fantastically well. I remember on many occaisions the load factors on the MAN-LCY were 25%-30%, however this was on the midday sectors. First thing in the morning they were almost always 90%, and they had to start a second rotation in order to satisfy demand. I was always interested to find if people minded the 'prop' service to the capital, and many didn't mind, or even enjoyed the experience.
I always thought there was a distinct lack of a London service from LPL; I used the easyJet service from there to LTN, and found it was fantastic, except for the fact of using the train at the other end to get into central London. Unfortunately that stopped due to fees at LTN, and left a huge gap in the market.
When VLM rose to the challenge people thought traffic would be taken away from MAN, but that proved not to be the case. The service is first class, with very reliable aircraft.
I suppose on the LBA-LCY route, the level of service on the Atlantique aircraft should be the normal bmi, but it's unfortunate the service is not in bmi livery. I would say with constant 'in your face' style advertising at both ends, the route will do well.
HS
Thats good gen, cheers for that. Good to see the company is moving in the right direction with fleet numbers anyway.
Loco,
VLM have done fantastically well. I remember on many occaisions the load factors on the MAN-LCY were 25%-30%, however this was on the midday sectors. First thing in the morning they were almost always 90%, and they had to start a second rotation in order to satisfy demand. I was always interested to find if people minded the 'prop' service to the capital, and many didn't mind, or even enjoyed the experience.
I always thought there was a distinct lack of a London service from LPL; I used the easyJet service from there to LTN, and found it was fantastic, except for the fact of using the train at the other end to get into central London. Unfortunately that stopped due to fees at LTN, and left a huge gap in the market.
When VLM rose to the challenge people thought traffic would be taken away from MAN, but that proved not to be the case. The service is first class, with very reliable aircraft.
I suppose on the LBA-LCY route, the level of service on the Atlantique aircraft should be the normal bmi, but it's unfortunate the service is not in bmi livery. I would say with constant 'in your face' style advertising at both ends, the route will do well.
HS
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FlyBE were on the LBA route much the same time as KLM UK were on the MAN route - both struggled and both pulled off of it.
The thing is, VLM have addressed why it didn't work for KLM UK and this is reflected in their performance. bmi on the other hand have just come onto the LBA route with FlyBe's old schedule, fare structure and stand-offish approach to promoting the thing and are probably scratching their heads, wondering why only 13 punters turned up this morning and why the booked loads for the off-peaks would fit into a taxi.
So bmi, look and learn at the timings of VLMs 5 x day service from LPL. Remember that the business punter is probably not interested in a £60 return restricted ticket no more than he is prepared to pay £300 for flexibility. And most of all, remember that you need to tell people about the service, preferably at both ends of the route.
loco
The thing is, VLM have addressed why it didn't work for KLM UK and this is reflected in their performance. bmi on the other hand have just come onto the LBA route with FlyBe's old schedule, fare structure and stand-offish approach to promoting the thing and are probably scratching their heads, wondering why only 13 punters turned up this morning and why the booked loads for the off-peaks would fit into a taxi.
So bmi, look and learn at the timings of VLMs 5 x day service from LPL. Remember that the business punter is probably not interested in a £60 return restricted ticket no more than he is prepared to pay £300 for flexibility. And most of all, remember that you need to tell people about the service, preferably at both ends of the route.
loco
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V interesting stuff. bmir promotion/advertising isnt the best. Glasgow to Knock went down like a lead balloon with loads regularly under 10. Advertising around this area was v little or none!
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Inkjet - I'm not getting into a full fare vs loco debate or questioning their ability to get bums on seats to EDI. My point is specific to the LCY route and whether they have got things in place to make it work. In my humble opinion, it looks and feels too much like the short-lived FlyBe operation of a few years ago and not enough like like the successful VLM routes out of LPL/MAN. I just question the decision to copy something that failed instead of learning from something that is working.
loco
loco
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5150
Doh! 
Assumptions are a what?....
Just from looking at the fares for next Monday I would say the loads should be very reasonable indeed. It appears to me they have similar fares to VLM, allowing early bookers a cheap deal, and those wanting flexibility to pay for it. VLM certainly did not let business travellers get away with it. As a quick comparison, both VLM and bmi charge £300 return for a fully flexible ticket. Granted, it would make sense to offer a ticket which is semi-flexible, such as Eastern do, allowing one change at no charge, and being priced sensibly between the cheapest and the fully flexible.
The only thing missing is the extra rotation late evening, which I'm surprised they don't have.
They could also make the most of LCY opening on Saturday morning and attract some Xmas shoppers, before they return on Sunday evening.
HS
Assumptions are a what?....
Just from looking at the fares for next Monday I would say the loads should be very reasonable indeed. It appears to me they have similar fares to VLM, allowing early bookers a cheap deal, and those wanting flexibility to pay for it. VLM certainly did not let business travellers get away with it. As a quick comparison, both VLM and bmi charge £300 return for a fully flexible ticket. Granted, it would make sense to offer a ticket which is semi-flexible, such as Eastern do, allowing one change at no charge, and being priced sensibly between the cheapest and the fully flexible.
The only thing missing is the extra rotation late evening, which I'm surprised they don't have.
They could also make the most of LCY opening on Saturday morning and attract some Xmas shoppers, before they return on Sunday evening.
HS
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Monday not looking too busy at the moment.
LBA-LCY loads are 18,5,5,7 for the four and northbound they are 13,4,13,11. Of all of them 7 are business class. Still some work do be done me thinks
LBA-LCY loads are 18,5,5,7 for the four and northbound they are 13,4,13,11. Of all of them 7 are business class. Still some work do be done me thinks
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A valid point from Headset starter re Saturday mornings.
I have used the LCY-LPL service once on a Saturday morning back May and will do so again in a fortnight (£37.10 single booked in advance).
The inbound load to LCY on that occasion was healthy - the Theatre & Shopping brigade much in evidence.
The northbound load was equally healthy but was mainly ex-pat Liverpudlian's going to Anfield for a match. I would guess you could substitute that for Toffee fans when they're at Goodison on a Saturday.
I would have thought that a Saturday morning run ex LBA could pick-up enough weekend London breakers plus ex-pat Tykes going north to justify it.
I have used the LCY-LPL service once on a Saturday morning back May and will do so again in a fortnight (£37.10 single booked in advance).
The inbound load to LCY on that occasion was healthy - the Theatre & Shopping brigade much in evidence.
The northbound load was equally healthy but was mainly ex-pat Liverpudlian's going to Anfield for a match. I would guess you could substitute that for Toffee fans when they're at Goodison on a Saturday.
I would have thought that a Saturday morning run ex LBA could pick-up enough weekend London breakers plus ex-pat Tykes going north to justify it.
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Mon and Fri generally aren't great days, but those loads equate to a sub-20% load on the ATR (and would be just 26% on the -135).
I'd be interested to see how Tues or Weds compared but if they're typical across the week then no wonder there are genuine concerns about the inability / unwillingness of bmi and the officials at LBA & LCY to effectively promote the route. I'm frankly amazed that given LBA and LCY both pushed for this and lobbied various airlines quite hard and that bmi have gone to the trouble of leasing in a dedictaed machine to do it, that all 3 parties seem to be sat on their backsides watching this debacle unfold.
682
I'd be interested to see how Tues or Weds compared but if they're typical across the week then no wonder there are genuine concerns about the inability / unwillingness of bmi and the officials at LBA & LCY to effectively promote the route. I'm frankly amazed that given LBA and LCY both pushed for this and lobbied various airlines quite hard and that bmi have gone to the trouble of leasing in a dedictaed machine to do it, that all 3 parties seem to be sat on their backsides watching this debacle unfold.
682
