QR limits

[geo2gambler]

Hello everyone,

I have heard the rumour that Qatar Airways is again using the crew upto the limits. They are operating flights in the patteren that they land in the morning and again operating back the same night or evening.

Can someone from QR confirm or deny the news please ?

Happy Flying.

Geo

[homesick rae]

Nothing surprises me...I have done 21hours straight with QR..."special dispensation from DCAM" operated with less than min Cabin Crew..."special dispensation from DCAM"

...almost as nice as DOH/DAC/BKK/MNL with the same crew!!!

Yep it's true...

Maybe Bangkok Layover and A300 man will recall these type of escapades!!??

Cheers

HR

[Bangkok Layover]

I remember it very well Home sick!!

DOH DAC BKK MNL,less than 24hrs rest and back the same way. and what did they pay us?

Now the latest pattern is,any night flight (such as TRV,COK) is a layover,but if you arrive in the morning after a flight you still have to operate in the evening/night.

[vitto]

DOH/DAC/BKK/MNL...Tiring flight indeed!!! plus a very not understanding CSD... Purser as we call them the old days... Most crew were Filipinos and they have to see their families during the 18 hours layover, they can hardly open their eyes and a full flight almost from Manila.

I can't believe that they are still abusing the crew these days...

Vitto

[A300Man]

I never flew with the company as a pax in the 747 days, but have obviously heard all stories about gruellingly long and tiring flights.

And also of flights into Africa for Air Afrique that QR used to operate on their behalf too, which were also long.


Now that QR is going to start Melbourne direct on A333s, does that mean that they will have crew rest areas on the aircraft? Surely EK and others must have crew rest on their flights down under.

Homesick - what is DCAM?

[mafibacon]

A300 Man.
DCAM was the Directorate of Civil Aviation and Metrology.
Now replaced/renamed Qatar Civil Aviation Authority.

[Bangkok Layover]

Air afrique however was a very succesfull operation,interms of crew payment and was handled in 3 occations by the Old management,and the last 2 weeks by the Hitler's team.

It was long,but operated only one sector and ferry the return with a layover in Africa.so it wasnt bad.

It was tough for the Flight deck crew though.

[AlfaMike]

Could this be because they are short of crews?

Are there enough type rated crews being hired?

I believe they stop hiring non type rated crews, does this mean they will continue to hire non type rated crews to avoid the crew shortage?

Are there any other ideas about this?
:confused:


Cheers :ok:

[hostler]

hm....

[AlfaMike]

Hostler.

Thanks for the lesson. Not everyone speaks English as the first language BTW Do you speak any other language?

Back to my question…:confused: Do you know if QR is hiring non type rated “ P I L O T S “ again?

Thanks for the info. :ok:


P.S. Did I get it right this time?


:sad:

[Hajj Man]

Don't know if they are hiring any non-typerated guys/gals, but I know they just ran some interviews last week of guys that were not type rated.

The interviewing normally would suggest the type of hiring they do but as you know, ANYTHING is possible.

HM:ok:

[AlfaMike]

Thanks for the info HM.

I hope they call soon.

Cheers.

:ok:

[hostler]

.

[strength]

I remember doing Manilla flights with 8 hrs rest, no other reputable airline would allow this except QR.

Just spoken to my mates at QR and everythings still the same: crew are fed up, terrible rules and regulations, terrible CRM - by the way does the SEP manual still have a blank section which is supposed to cover CRM?

Could you imagine if there was a union at QR!!!!!!!!!!!the "airline" would shut down overnight!!!!!

[Crusty Ol Cap'n]

Don't know whether you guys are living in the same world as I do! I fly 330s for QR and this month I have 75 hours rostered. That is the toughest month in the last 4 months. For a few months last winter 90+ hours per month were not unknown but crewing is OK now, plus the JAA flight time limitations have been adopted.

8 hrs turnaround in Manila is bulls**t. The QCAA regs require a minimum of 10 hours IN A HOTEL ROOM. Never in my time with QR have I ever been asked to do anything that comes close to breaching the FTRs.

Virtually nothing in the above posts comes close to the truth. I suspect they are from disaffected staff or people who do not know their regs. Both groups are well represented in the company.

CRM in QR? It is certainly the objective of the Flt Ops department and a great deal of time is spent on it. Unfortunately it has yet to become an every day part of the airlines culture. When company communications improve, senior management publicly adopt the principles of CRM and the CCMs give up their back stabbing and reporting then it might have a chance.

This is a young airline with great potential but, given its age, it can not be expected to exactly mirror a well established airline. Give them time and they will get there.

[AlfaMike]

Crusty please tell me, how many days off in Doha do you get (average) per month?

Thanks for the info.
:ok:

[Hajj Man]

You will only get 8 days off a month rostered.

If they don't have a flight to fill your schedule with, they will put a standby day or a TBN ( to be notified) you will not get more than 8 days off. Occasionally you may see a 9 day off ( once a year perhaps) but this is how it goes at QR.

you could be rostered to fly like a dog for the month, but you will never get a bone for doing it.

" 8 DAYS ONLY.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and if you ask why, they will say, this is what we have been told to give you only 8 days off.

Did I say already, 8 days off?..............

Well thats it...................... 8 days off only.......incase I did not say it already.........

HM

:ok:

[homesick rae]

Crusty:

Well, call me a liar, but I have operated such flights!! Mind you I left in 2001 so maybe/ hopefully things have changed.

Maybe you joined later on where things matbe ain't so bad if you are flight deck.....as I said in a previous post, I operated 21 hours straight for QR on a DOH DAC turnaround which became delayed and delayed. They needed the aircraft in DOH, took about 6 hours to decide what they wanted to do and then gave that old number..."special dispensation for DCAM".

I believe Mubarak BA was one of the skippers...certainly Karlton and Clinton on the Cabin crew so why don't you check your facts before accusing us of being "disaffected crew who don't know the regs" Or ask Bunty, Crewing Manager...

...oh and just for the record I was actually seconded to the crewing dept for a while and I AM VERY AWARE of the regs!



:mad:

[A300Man]

Aha, Homesick.

Now that you mention it, I actually DO indeed remember that flight - the famous DAC turnaround. I also recall that Karlton and Clinton (now gone) were on that flight. It was a famous flight that one - heard many people talking about it. PM me and tell me who was the CSD? (Assume it was an A300, given that the Captain was Alibinali???? He's still going very, very strong, but nowadays on the A330!)


I recall many accounts from various people about excessive flying with QR - but never heard the one about DCAM before.

Anyway - more destinations, more aircraft, more frequencies, more seats (The A330-300), but, alas......LESS crew and less rest.

No matter what, the guys and girls on board are STILL delivering a trul exceptional service. I take my hat off to them.

I have had my arm twisted up my back to try out Etihad next week, for the first time..........let's see what they have to offer.


Cheers,
A300Man

[Crusty Ol Cap'n]

Homesick

You are talking of the good old days and I am reporting how I find things now!

The new regs were only adopted (foisted on the company by the QAA?) recently. They prevent some of the old abuses and make life a little easier.

As for days off! 8 days is the norm and a way is always found to roster you even if there is no work for you to do. I have several times requested 4 or 5 days off in a block and the request has always been granted.

Minimum turnarounds are now the exception rather than the rule but they do still happen, sometimes used as a mechanism to help facilitate a request. :E

[homesick rae]

4/5 days off in a block? This then poses the question.....ah well perhaps not!

Still giving days off down route to make things "legal?"

AIMS: a marvellous system when you know how!

Cheers

HR

[Bangkok Layover]

Homesick,
Did that so called "21 hour" flight touch down in Chiangmai-Thailand by any chance?

Just for the Record,...who was the CSD??....George? and was Neil Finley there too,with Samiya Abdi?

[homesick rae]

BKK:

No mate. but I was working in Crewing when that one happened. Capt AlKhadra...I took the call from him.

No, this was the one that diverted to Calcutta, spent three hours on the ground there, eventually went to DAC and we sat on the aircraft for about 6 hours then they told us to go to the hotel for 12 hours....just as we were about to disembark, the Station Manager came running across the apron telling us that we "have to stay on board and take the aircraft back to DOH...cos they need it...." "special dispensation from DCAM..."

The crewing decision on that one was overruled...quel surprise!

Cheers

HR

[knotaloud]

Did they let Old Crusty out of the office so he could post on Pprune? Or did he post before he looked at his December roster?

Sorry Old Krusty but QR continues to roster to the limits so no wonder they are always on the phone calling on days off to put a patch here and a patch there.

And as for getting those day off in a row? OK if you know somebody I would think. (Or work in the office?)

[popay]

I fully agree with Crusty Ol Cap'n. I am also on 330 fleet with QR and max BH I have done is 75 in the month.
Cheers.

[homesick rae]

Popay...

Glad to hear that you are not overloaded on the A330.

But, illegal rostering has and does go on in QR...you just have to know how AIMS works!;)

I, as I am sure many others do, hope that things continue to "ease off" on that side.

Cheers

HR

[popay]

Glad to hear that you are not overloaded on the A330.

"But, illegal rostering has and does go on in QR...you just have to know how AIMS works!"
popay---Thats I don't simply know, cause I don't work in the sched dep, but regarding my personal roster I didn't have any manipulation during the working roster period. What has been done afterwards, as I told you, I don't know and this is not in my compitition to judge.
I would like to emphasize something else. This is corporate culture. I would compare it with the behavior of a Jung co pilot, who thinks that he knows everything he is the best and flying is a kind of competition, where he has to win. This is acceptable from a Jung copilot, cause he still has got time to change, and we simply accept it, because it doesn't really affect us. But it affect us when this happens on the corporate level between the departments and colleges. The general attitude from some ethnic groups (and they are not locals) is, as long as I don't break the rule, I am fine and nothing is going to happen to me and they don't care whether there actions affect others. This is all legal and correct and bla bla bla..., but it basically differs from what I call well established corporate culture: positive attitude of the colleges in a friendly environment still reaching the goal, operationalwise, but nether the less motivation of the personnel through satisfaction of there personnel needs, to a possible level of course, is where we need to go. I hope we will come there soon, because this company has a great potential and I truly believe this can be a great place to work.
Cheers.

[ruby tuesday]

I though QR's corporate culture was 'hire n fire' or 'cover your arse'?

[oryxbollocks]

Perhaps you guys should ask around the 330 fleet like I have. Over 100 hours for the 31 days for captains and first officers with the odd pilot doing very little on standby. So much for Aims and it's 'fair share' principle?

Back to back Londons, Manila/Bangkoks, etc., is not fair rostering or safe rostering.

Let's face it, QR rosters to the absolute limits because "it's legal".

For example, Shanghai to Doha in winter with NO relief may be legal, but it's not safe! (And please don't suggest that the third pilot provides proper relief because that's ludicrous.)

GB

[popay]

Perhaps you guys should ask around the 330 fleet like I have.
-------What do you mean ask? I don’t need to ask anybody I am on that fleet and right now in Shanghai. Over 100 hours for the 31 days for captains and first officers with the odd pilot doing very little on standby.
--------That might be true. So much for Aims and it's 'fair share' principle?
--------And that could be true. But I can’t remember any other airline where that was not the case, besides maybe major airlines like BA or UA and that only do to strong union.

Back to back Londons, Manila/Bangkoks, etc., is not fair rostering or safe rostering.
--------Well if you don’t consider it as safe, why do you fly then? Let me remind you that you always have the right to say I don’t feel safe to do so and there will be plenty others willing to do the job and getting money.

Let's face it, QR rosters to the absolute limits because "it's legal".
--------Even if it is so, what’s your problem? You have chosen that job. You don’t like it, change it. It will be like that wherever you go.

For example, Shanghai to Doha in winter with NO relief may be legal, but it's not safe! (And please don't suggest that the third pilot provides proper relief because that's ludicrous.)
--------I don’t do suggest it is safe that’s exactly the reason why we need the relief pilot.
GB
--------Look, don’t get me wrong but this subject exists as long as aviation does, so it’s a question whether you want to keep doing that or you try to change it, or just do a more suitable job. But don’t play that permanent pissed guy totally unsatisfied with the company, but still staying with the company and following unsafe rules. This is not a personnel offend.

[Qatari515]

My friend popay,

from what I read from your posts you must be very new in the company. Welcome!

I think what the others are trying to say here is that most rosters are really stretched to the limits, 90+ hours is more a rule then an exception and a lot of us are flying backt to back flights with crossing over 8 timezones in between.

You might be one of the lucky ones now with your roster but believe me, it will not stay like that.

It is true, you can refuse a flight because you think it is not safe. At least, thats whats written in the red book, but I would not recommend it. It might follow you around much longer then you want it to.

Once again, rosters are heavy, a lot of nightflying and not an awfull lot of days of. But hey, thats the industry we have chosen to work in and its the same thing all over this little planet.

Good luck

[popay]

My friend popay,

from what I read from your posts you must be very new in the company. Welcome!
-----Thanks, that’s true.

I think what the others are trying to say here is that most rosters are really stretched to the limits, 90+ hours is more a rule then an exception and a lot of us are flying back to back flights with crossing over 8 time zones in between.
------I just got my roster; it says 93 BH with MNL and PVG and LHR and FCO and so on.

You might be one of the lucky ones now with your roster but believe me, it will not stay
like that.
------It didn’t in deed, so what?

It is true, you can refuse a flight because you think it is not safe. At least, thats whats written in the red book, but I would not recommend it. It might follow you around much longer then you want it to.
------Thanks for the advice, that’s exactly the reason I will not do it. The main difference btw me and previous guy is that, I am not saying: it’s not safe; I am not going to do so and so on… Just take it or leave it. I will take it.

Once again, rosters are heavy, a lot of night flying and not an awful lot of days of. But hey, that’s the industry we have chosen to work in and its the same thing all over this little planet.
-------The roster is heavy in deed, and here again take it or leave it and there will be much more guys willing to get the money.

Good luck
-------Thanks.

[homesick rae]

Shouldn't it be "take it or get sacked"...well it is as far as the cabin crew are concerned.

Maybe when the safety audit was conducted they forgot to take an indepth look at the rosters.

Bear in mind that AAB even controls that side. Poor Bernard doesn't have any real say in what goes on.

A pity. The cabin crew deserve better.

Cheers

HR

[popay]

Shouldn't it be "take it or get sacked"...well it is as far as the cabin crew are concerned.
-------It shouldn’t be this way in terms of everybody and there should be no war in Iraq and no Dictators on this planet, but this isn’t the case. So you better get back to reality and the brutal reality is that, we can’t change anything here and we are not supposed to. We are only supposed to do the proper job, which is hard, I agree on that. This might be an unpopular opinion, but I agree with this policy as long as the management gives me a job and I will get paid for it. This is do to simple reason, because I am tired of thinking what the management could have done better and why have I lost my job.
There are some strange rules, but you know them and it’s only a matter of personnel discipline whether you follow them or not and as a consequence whether you going to get in troubles.
I would like to emphasize again that as long as the management is doing proper job and keep my job secured my tolerance level is variable until certain limit of course.

Maybe when the safety audit was conducted they forgot to take an indepth look at the rosters.
---------Well no comments on that, again as long as it legal I don’t have any objection.
Bear in mind that AAB even controls that side. Poor Bernard doesn't have any real say in what goes on.
---------Remember what happened in Europe particular with GB under Mr.
Neville Chamberlain
1937-40
CONSERVATIVE

Neville Chamberlain began his public career in 1915 in Birmingham, where he was born, as its lord mayor. In 1918 he became a member of Parliament. He served as minister of health in the ministry of Law (1923) and in Baldwin's government from (1924-29). He was chancellor of the Exchequer (1931-37) and followed Baldwin as prime minister in May 1937.
Prime minister at the outbreak of World War II, he attempted to establish peaceful relations with Hitler and Mussolini through a policy of appeasement. His approach was not without support, but it resulted in Eden's resignation as foreign secretary and generated bitter opposition from Winston Churchill.
Chamberlain engineered the Munich Pact in September 1938, negotiating with Hitler to settle the question of Czechoslovakia. The agreement signed by Britain, France, Italy and Germany gave the Sudeten, a resource rich area of Czechoslovakia, (one-fifth of the country on the German speaking border) to Germany with other areas going to Hungary and Poland. Returning in triumph to Britain at Heston Airport on September 30th, Chamberlain told a cheering crowd "I believe it is peace in our time." The peace did not last long. Germany took the rest of Czechoslovakia in March of 1938 and Chamberlain was cornered into guaranteeing Poland against attack. When Germany invaded Poland Britain declared war.
The handwriting was on the wall. Chamberlain's own party rebelled against him, forcing his resignation after British forces suffered defeat in Norway. Churchill was named prime minister in May of 1940. Chamberlain joined his cabinet briefly, resigned in October and died on 9 November 1940.

--------Taking the historical experience in to consideration, I would say we need a strong leader as England needed Mr. Churchill in order to succeed in that tuff competition and I am prepared to follow a strong leader. Do you want to feel comfortable loosing the battle and believe in your wishes, or do you want to win the battle, it’s up to you. As long as Mr. AAB is winning the battle, which he does for the time being, I don’t care what he controls. Every time requires an adequate leader.

A pity. The cabin crew deserve better.
--------Well, I wouldn’t differ between cabin and cockpit. I am sure you agree on that, it reflects the actual CRM concept doesn’t it?

Cheers
-------Once again, I would like to undermine that my motivation is purely egoistic.
HR

[homesick rae]

Hey Popay, why don't you send a copy of the Chamberlain thing to Akbar and Saliya?

Thank you for giving me a laugh on Xmas Eve!

Cheers

HR

[popay]

Hey Popay, why don't you send a copy of the Chamberlain thing to Akbar and Saliya?
-----------I don’t need to send anything to anybody because I am fully satisfied with my own performance and in first line I am looking after me before I judge about others. I guess that’s why you are a cabin staff and I am cockpit.

Thank you for giving me a laugh on Xmas Eve!
----------I hope your laugh is not hysterical one. I have tried to explain you my opinion and you got pissed and didn’t say anything constructive except criticizing others.
I doubt very much that under your leadership we would reach the same performance, because you simply don’t have the balls for it.
Anyway, have a good laugh.
Cheers

[homesick rae]

Popay,

Spot the newboy!!LOL

I have criticized, and will continue to critcize, the dictatorship of AAB and Saliya.

Check previous threads and you will realise that I am not alone.

"you simply don’t have the balls for it."

They are in fine working order thank you. New arrival due in May!

Happy Holidays Popay

or should I say Bah Humbug!!?


:} :} :}

[popay]

Don’t always refer to others, stay for you self. You a free to do what ever you consider being right I will do it also. But then, having done that and got sacked, which I think you are, don’t blame everybody for own mistakes. That’s why there are losers and winners, I guess.
“or should I say Bah Humbug!!?”----- Well, what ever that means. If you are trying to guess who I am, that’s easy, just click on my personal web. I am, at least, not covering myself behind mysterious nickname you know who you are talking to. What about you? Do you have the balls to say who you are, or shell we wait until may?
Anyway I don’t think, this conversation was very constructive. It seems that this forum has degraded to a hot line for sacked cabin crew.

[homesick rae]

Happy Xmas Popay...you really have made my day and given me a laugh like I say.

I hope you continue to have easy rosters and enjoy QR.

...but watch your back...who knows? That's the way life is in QR whether you agree or not....

Oh and for your info: how can I be hiding behind a name when most people on here know who I am and I have never denied nor confirmed. It really makes no odds to me and really does not and will not affect my future. Whatever happened is in the past and I have no regrets whatsoever. I am just one of many victims. You, very obviously, have no idea and are just privvy to idle gossip not too dissimilar to AAB and SK...

I honestly do not care who you are or what you do, but you do seem to be in a minority...

QR great potential, some great people and a lot of hardworking crew...pity about the treatment and the management. As someone who has experienced the disgusting treatment first hand...I feel I have a right to complain, moan, whinge..whatever you want to call it. I know it won't change a thing, but I will always strive to make people aware of what goes on at QR.

I am happy for you if, so far, you have not witnessed that.

I wish you all the best for the future.

Cheers

HR

[popay]

Well, thanks for your wishes. I do wish you also all the best, but again I don’t know who you are.
The nick name homesick ray doesn’t say anything to me. Thanks for your recommendations. I do watch my back always regardless of my geographical position.

In all the correspondence we are missing the subject and that’s what do you exactly criticize?

My intention is exactly the same; I want the others to know about what’s going on in QR.

But in order to understand for me and for the rest of the forum, why you always criticizing the QR, we have to know, why you are doing this? To find out why you are doing this, I have to know your motivation. Is your motivation personal revenge on Mr.AAB, because you think you have been abused?
So, what exactly happened to you?
The only reason I am asking is, because I have heard some stories about being abused by the management, but once I have started to get deeper into details on that particular case, its suddenly turned out, that the related person has frequently violated the rules (what’s or ever) and been warned and finally got sacked.
Consequently I have to agree on this managements decision, because it’s been simply caused by the person it’s self.
Unfortunately there are also some colleges in the cockpit doing many stupid things (like drinking whole cappuccino, reserved for first class passengers), which cause the rest of us punishment.
I don’t have to tell you that we are in the service industry, serving the passengers in first line and staff comes as last. And as we are representing the airline with our outfit in the public, so do the actions of one pilot represent pilots as a group to the management.
Again there are pilots among us thinking they have the absolute priority on board and have only to be served by female and as first class passenger immediately after they have entered the cockpit. Is that normal? What would be your reaction on this kind of behaviour?
None of the actions of the management have been just taking without a reason.
My personal opinion on that Mr. AAB control everything is: I hope he continues to do so, because that’s the only way to find out what’s going on in the airline. He doesn’t relay on the information provided by the others, but just goes out on the ramp and watches everything himself.
In my previous airline I have only seen our CEO twice in 6 years and he obviously didn’t have a clue what’s going on. Consequently the airline got bankrupt and the CEO changed to another airline just couple of moths before. 250 Pilot went jobless. I, personally, admire a high ranking management taking care them self about the airline. That shows me, that they do care about us instead of playing golf.
Please don’t get me wrong, I am not saying you are wrong or right, but just be fair and tell the whole story and truth, so the others can judge about it.
Again let’s get exactly and precisely, relaying on facts, not just saying he/she is bad.

[crapflying]

Popay,
You must be a desperate chap realy hungry since your unemployment from your previous company. When you grow up and hit the real world you might mature and realize the thruth about airline flying. In the mean time enjoy your new found great airline job and keep passing on the great optimism to the others around you... Hey if you suck up enough (and not too many brown spots on your face) you might even become the new VPFO and boy want that be great!!!
Happy Holidays

[popay]

Popay,
You must be a desperate chap realy hungry since your unemployment from your previous company.
--------Well grey daddy, I have to disappoint you I haven’t been unemployed despite the bankruptcy of my previous airline and I am not desperate to work. I would rather spend my time with my family, but flying, but I have to be consequent. Nothing is for free and I have to work hard for my money. I wish the others would be the same. That’s my attitude.
When you grow up and hit the real world you might mature and realize the thruth about airline flying.
-------Thanks for the advice, but I have been in the airline business for more then 10 years now and not only as a pilot. I think almost 6000 BH Jet on the airliner is mature enough to create my own opinion.
In the mean time enjoy your new found great airline job and keep passing on the great optimism to the others around you... Hey if you suck up enough (and not too many brown spots on your face) you might even become the new VPFO and boy want that be great!!!
-------I hope not.
Happy Holidays

[popay]

That’s exactly what I am talking about, homesick ray. Although you are permanently hanging in that forum you are avoiding telling your story to everybody. You didn’t face us with facts.
It looks to like another bla bla……
Sorry body but that's a fact.

[Belowclouds]

Victor, prover e- mail, PM. S Novym Godom i Rojdestvom!

[homesick rae]

Popay,

My story has been told in all it's glory many moons ago on here.
Try the search button.
And what are you having a go at me for in response to the last post which was from someone else!! LOL!

This is not the place to name names, but there is a cast of many who have been in the same boat.

The thread is about QR Limits and I have merely told of an incident whereupon the crew operated illegally, the operating captain did not stand up for us (he is still with QR) and we were told it was "special dispensation from DCAM"

I have mentioned my continued dissatisfaction about QR's management tactics and will continue to do so.

If the "search" button does not help you then ask around at QR and take your pick, you never know you might come up with the right person!;)

Now can we get back on track with the thread?

Cheers

HR

ya ne ponimayoo po rooski!

[Hajj Man]

Popay, Viktor or whoever you are,

Let me stop you in your tracks RIGHT NOW before you continue to make a fool of yourself.................

You have had a little bit to much Kool-aid to drink and it is time for you to get off the soap box and stop with all the Horaay Horaay Qatar Airways talk Son, you will not get a position in Training, management, or be a senior 3 stripe f/o any sooner by spoutting off like that. Also you are not going to get any more coffee from the cabin crew if you keep it up.!!!!!... ( I just hope they don't mix up your coffee with mine??. Actually I am a Tea drinker. :D )


Son you have a very long way to go in aviation ( not sure how old you are) but 10 years is only just starting. I think I have probally forgotten and changed my point of view on more than you have ever even learnt in this field of Aviation.

You see son I have seen, smelt,tasted,felt and heard all this before. Please don't come into Qatar Airways and flex those muscles of yours and make yourself an idiot my friend. We have seen your picture on your web site and it is clear that a strong breeze will blow you over.

Also, Please don't keep Quoting over and over again what people say, you are making the reading long for all of us and we are not little kids that need you to keep remining us what someone said in the post just prior to your ignorant answer.

To sum it all up in some words, you seem to be a keen "LITTLE BOY" who is wet behind the ears in a new company and is making all kinds of "BIG BOLD" remarks about things you have not even experienced as yet.


Good luck in your career son, you are off to a good start.


HM
:ok:

[AVIACO]

Hajj Man hits the nail right on the head - again.

Homesick - hope you are ok.

Popay - back off a little bit mate, and good luck with your career.


Bye
Aviaco

[knotaloud]

Once again Hajj Man comes in to effectively put paid to this 'popay idiocy'.

Popay decided to hijack this thread for his own self-aggrandisement and even try to tell us and management who he is. (I, for one, do not want to know who is whom on this Forum. If it was intended that way, we would all be using our own names.)

This airline DOES change the rules to suit itself. It DOES change sign on/sign off times in order to make the cabin crew work against their wishes and against the rules. The cabin crew cannot argue. If they do, their life becomes cr@p, at worst.

Additionally, the fact that QR operate to the LIMITS of the FTL's means that there will always be pressure on crew to give that extra little bit, that, under other authorities, would result in the loss of a crew licence or an AOC.

QR's argument is that it is short of crew. Well, their are several ways around this but the PD seems reluctant to implement them.

One of which would be to treat employees like members of the human race and not as slave labour. For example, the word is that some 20 of the recent batch of Australian cabin crew recruited recently, resigned almost as soon as they got here. The snake's comments on this? "They must have recruited the wrong type of person."

From what I know of Australians, recruit ANY of them and then tell them 'do this, do that, or you're fired', they'd tell you where to get off!

The PD is so proud that we are the fastest expanding airline in the world that he has lost track of where we are with crewing, engineering, parking spots, lack of terminal capacity, etc. He is used to being told that he can do anything by the syncophantic staff who might have been ok for a small outfit, but have no idea where they are in a REAL airline.

QR could be great. And I would love to be here to see it. However, people like our friend popeye, who thinks he's helping by sucking, are much more counter-productive than those who are prepared to speak out to change things and help make this airline a real airline.

Happy New Year to ALL.

[homesick rae]

Hajj Man: Nice one!

Aviaco: I'm fine and still enjoying aviation, all the best to you!

Knotaloud: like Hajj Man you are spot on!

Popay: I rest my case
***********

The Snake's comments are so typical! Take a look into his past and you will see the true person.

Even if you prove him wrong, as I did a couple of times, he will deny it and still give you grief. The man enjoys character assassination and takes pride in destroying people's lives/ careers and ensuring he gets brown nose points for doing so.

At the end of the day he is just a puppet and his turn will come soon I am sure.
****************
Was at meetings in LGW very recently and the vibe around there about AAB is not good. He has already created an impression...the wrong one!


Cheers

HR

[AVIACO]

You mean AAB created the wrong impression amongst the LGW community?

Hmmmm. There's a surprise. Won't be long before CO kick them out either. Not doing themselves any favours.

[popay]

Hajj Man, well body, I instantly hope you will be able to say all of this right in my face if you see me, cause you know me now, but I don't know you. I will respect you at least for that, otherwise just another bla... bla…big mouth daddy.
Cause, guys like you, are always talking behind some ones back smiling in to your face and xxxxxxxxxxx you behind your back. I am not after any position in here, but I am making the best out this company. And let me get it straight Daddy, what a xxxxxx are you doing here if this is all so bad?

One more thing I have to say to you, I only respect someone I am speaking to, if I know who I am speaking to. And all those useless nicknames are just to cover up your own ass, just in case. You know now who you are dealing with. I expect the same from you. That’s the only reason I have inserted my web page. That’s all.

The same is valid for knotaloud.

P.S. And now for all of you guys out there looking for the job wherever: There are a lot of idiots out there including this place, but having chance to read this topic, you had the chance to speak to someone, you could identify as currently employed by QR, with the name and position and not to some mysterious shadows, smelling it all and blowing the breeze. This is always going to be like this, no matter where you go. Do you self a favour, guys, if you want to get a real picture come and see it your self.

Inappropriate language edited. 4HP

[tic]

good one and tells it all. If u don't like go somewhere else if you don't like it.

tic

[AVIACO]

Popay

Whilst I truly admire your bravery in so doing, your decision to publish your private www link on this forum only serves to display your freshness and naivety when it comes to the current and past community that surrounds Qatar Airways, headed up by the great man himself.

I am sure that it will come to no surprise to you that everyone in QR Towers (from the ground floor, all the way up to the 9th) will have read your posts. Fact.

Some people will agree with you. Some will disagree. Most, however, will agree with me when I say that I feel sorry for you, that you have made a fatal blunder in publicly posting your tirade of sycophancy from your elevated soapbox. Contrary to what you may actually think, AAB and the Fleet Managers will NOT like nor appreciate your posts and your overly public comments. All that you are doing, my friend, is riling your colleagues - past and present - and those with whom you currently share the office space with at the sharp end of an Airbus.

Your enthusiasm for your job (regardless of your age and seniority) is commendable. However, your posts, which have degenerated into bitter slanging as they have progressed down the page, are doing NOTHING at all to support your case. You are only exposing yourself as juvenile.

Friendly advice - tone it down a bit. Stop upsetting others. Maintain enthusiasm for your job. And listen to the likes of Hajj Man and Homesick Rae, as they DO actually have a little bit more experience of the Oryx Ensemble than you give them credit for.

And finally - have a great New Year. Wishing you all the best!!

[popay]

AVIACO thanks for the advise. Happy new year to you too.
I don’t think they have read it in the tower, but even if they have, so what? Why are you all making such a big deal out of this? I only say what I think and what I mean. I don’t expect to take any benefit out of this. That would be naive.
Well, my post has got exactly to the level, some people only understand. I have tried to stick purely to facts, but there were no such and there will be no such. I don’t have any case and thanks, no need to support me or my “case”.
I will say it one more time, this is not about me or them or the tower or what’s or ever. This is purely about the truth. If somebody accuses the others, who ever that might be; that needs a proof, I am sure you will agree on that. I have not seen or heard any of this. All, the guys, said before might be true or not. Jesus Christ, just proof it and tell the facts. They don’t have to fear anything since they are anonymously acting, or not even with the company any more.
One thing I can’t stand is if people are spitting in the pot they are eating from.
It doesn’t matter whether the company is good or bad, you are employed by that company, so respect your self that much not to present it as an evil for the outsiders. And if you do so be a man enough to stand straight for you words. Otherwise it sounds like “I became a prostitute because they have enforced me to do this, but I like the pay check at the end of the month”.
Nobody has ever enforced anybody to come here and sacrifice them self just for an idea “How to make QR a better place”. Its apparently good enough for the guys, who are staying here for years.
All of us came here to have a secured job and get a bunch of cash by the end of the month and so on….. I don’t get the point of staying here if you just hate it. Oh let me guess why, because they need money.
If someone got upset because I didn’t follow the trend, I don’t care. You can always change something, if you want to, even if it’s done by your resignation.
I am prepared and will respect and share the cockpit with everybody, willing to do so the same way with me. I don’t have to like or not to like someone to be able to fly with, it’s my job.

And finally - have a great New Year. Wishing you all the best!!

[goldstar]

POPAY

JUST ANOTHER ''DADDY'' HERE,DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR AND GET YOUR WEB SITE OFF THE AIR.YOU CANT IMAGINE THE DAMAGE IT COULD DO TOO YOU AND YOUR FUTURE BOTH HERE AND ABROAD.

PS. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE EXPRESSION

'' DADDY KNOWS BEST''

[popay]

goldstar ok I did. Tell me what did it change?

[AVIACO]

Popay

You seem to be missing the point entirely. I can say nothing more in your defence. Sorry. But, you really should stop this. Believe me, QR Towers ARE reading this and you are DAMAGING YOUR JOB SECURITY by continuing this. QR is an airline like no other. AAB is a boss like no other. Don't be lulled into a false sense of security, as this can all change at the drop of a hat!

As stated by Goldstar, "DADDY KNOWS BEST". You ignore this at your peril.


Good luck to you Sir. All the best.

AO

[popay]

Ok I will. Enough excitement for this year, see you next year. and thanks for your defence AVIACO. I hope the daddies are not going to get too much exited, is no good for the hard you know.
Despite the cold breeze, happy New Year to all of you. See you on line or in the sim. Oops, I did it again, sorry daddies. That’s going to be exiting though.

All corrected as per wish.

[AVIACO]

Ups I did it again???? You mean "Oops", I did it again!!

Oh dear, and after all that, you've just admitted to being a Britney fan too..................................:bored:


Happy New Year.

[homesick rae]

Aviaco,

Ha Ha...a case of Hit Me Daddy One More Time methinks!

When will they ever learn...perhaps the hard way?

Happy New Year to you and yours and indeed to all the hardworking QR crew!

Cheers

HR

[Qatari515]

Happy new year and seasons greetings to all you guys...

Lets hope next year at QR passes as swiftly as the previous one...surely but slowly I do have the feeling we are getting there...

Another thing, I hope this "popay" hype stops here. I was getting a too strong " don quichote" like feeling here and an innocent soul was going to get hirt...

Well done guys...

Hope to see you all up there where we think we belong...

[Hajj Man]

Popay,

How are you? I can tell by your tone of typing that you also seem to be a very angree person? I see that 4holerpoler had to edit your last hit at me son for inappropriate language? Anyhow no harm done and no hard feelings to you because I was once young and just would fly off and screem and shout ......

Let me see if I can take a minute or two of my day off to tell you a few things............

Son, I am not talking behind your back and need you to take a few deep breaths and think of what you write before you do so. Unlike you, I can give a true meaning of what it is like to live and work in Qatar without having to "check my 6" to see if anyone is going to analize my post or response. You on the other hand have something to loose now if you ever say one negative thing about Qatar. You can check my history of post replies and see that I am very acurate with life and how things are done here at QR. I don't write about things I don't know and if I do I am the first to investigate it and get the true story. I "hit the nail on the head" as some people have said in the past and I am just trying to paint a true picture of what life and working for QR is like for those who are maybe thinking of coming here to work. I never say to them DON'T COME I just put the good and bad facts all on the table and let someone decide for themselves what they want to do. I don't lead someone on and I don't discourage either. I say things as they happen and tell the good with the bad. You have no idea about me and hopefully you will not. For all you know we might of flown together already or might have to fly in January?............. Please rest assure I will treat you as a professioal and do so at all times during the flight.

You say you only published your www page so people know who they are delaling with? well no one cares who you are, they just want the truth............... GOT IT???????

Happy new year and just do yourself a favor and keep a low profile. for your own sake son.

May Allah bless you and your entire family for the year 2005.

[popay]

Hey Hajj Man, I am fine thanks. Now we are talking equally and not like you are stopping me or teaching me. That’s, what I call conversation. I respect everybody’s opinion regardless whether I like it or not. This is a basic principal of democracy, called freedom. Another principal is self-defence, you have attacked and I have fought back. Anyhow no harm done and no hard feelings to you either. My opinions might be not popular, but this it haw it is and I don’t expect anybody to understand or join me either, but I expect someone, talking to me, to respect them.
I think you still didn’t get my point. Although it’s quite arrogant from you to say I am trapped now, without knowing my personnel financial situation, yes you right I have something to lose and it’s my dignity. That’s why I never stopped saying the truth and stick to my principals and will do so. I have joined this airline, because I believe in its future (I had couple other choices) and hope I will be able to make a good career here.
Nothing against facts and hit the nail on the head, because it’s productive, if it’s done in correct way and can be proved.
I absolutely can’t smell personal offence and arrogance and dilatants, not having appropriate education, professional experience and not been even approximately in the same position somewhere in the management, but taking them the right to judge about others, only because they have been sacked. (homesick ray).
And there are always two sides of the medal. So the question is who is right and who is wrong? The answer is hidden in the motive of behaviour. I think the motive of those, been sacked, is personal revenge and instead of thinking what could I have done better, they always blame others.
You are here, what is your motive? The answer to this question will give the others the chance to understand your statements better and decide whether they should listen to you or not. Its like to buy shares, if the company wants me to buy there shares; they have to publish all the information including internal info to give chance for an objective decision.
You are saying I don’t need this job; it’s another adventure for me, so that reflects in different attitude, from people, for whom, it’s a career chance. So you have promoted you self as an independent journalist broadcasting the truth about QR, but remember there are always different views on everything. And every opinion is always influenced by person, so always be careful about how your statement could influence the others.

There are people joining the company from all over the world including South America. I don’t think somebody would risk his existence and brake up back home, bring his kids here just to join an “unserious” company. It’s a long term run for the majority associated with adequate financial plans.
Unlike you, others, including me, are up to have a good career and be a loyal employer.
If you just think about it for a second seriously unlike a pilot, this company has done an incredible development and will keep doing so and this couldn’t have been done without a proper management. Unlike the others I only judge the management, as far as I can, for its performance. I just don’t believe the government would invest billions of dollars making plans for future of the whole nation and at the same time put somebody in to the leading position, without assuring, this one is the right person. I, personally, think it’s a bit above our level to judge about the ability of our management, unless you are directly involved in this process, which we are not. We drive the bus from A to B.
By the way, I didn’t know we had a hierarchy, giving you the right to express your self.
So, for the future if you want to communicate with me, you are welcome, but only if you do it, respecting me. I have graduated and don’t need a teacher.
I wish everybody all the best and once more, listen one more time to your self and think one more time about you and what you can do to improve our all working environment.
Remember it’s always the people them self, who are responsible for all the things happening in there life.
Thanks for the greetings.
I wish you all the best.
May the god bless you and your family.

:ok:

[homesick rae]

Hajj Man: Very well put.

Popay also does not seem to realise that people such as myself, BKK Layover, Aviaco etc have or have had more than just a few months experience at QR.

We are not speaking out of turn here. We are speaking from years of experience, both at QR and elsewhere. Some of us have seen the old QR and witnessed the changes, some of them good, that the PD has brought to the airline.

However, that does not detract from the fact that the man has no Man Management skills and is a tyrant and a dictator who has ruined and does ruin people's lives. He is of course ably assisted by the Snake, an individual who actually wrote a superb assessment on me in the old days, but always remained jealous of the fact that I had one year's more experience than him, oh and that I had worked for EK!!

Yet, he too is a two faced, coniving person who back stabs and will do anything to get rid of the people whom he sees as a threat, as well as any member of cabin crew who makes the tiniest mistake or has a genuine grievance or concern about something.

As Cabin Crew we used to believe that the Flight Deck were exempt from the PDs shennanigans, but nope...far from it!

Popay, we know these people, you do not!

Take Hajj Man's advice and wind your neck in. You will fair better in the long run!

Once again Happy New Year to all the hardworking crew at QR. May 2005 bring about the changes that you deserve and a good future.

Cheers

HR

[popay]

Hey, homesick ray.
Happy new year to you too. Thanks for the advice. Let me interpret it: you suggest me to shut up and not to try to become a potential threat. I am not a threat to anybody, because I just do my job and as long as do it well, I won’t be one. I am neither in the position of changing anything here, nor do I have the authority to do so and like I said before, I not supposed to. My position is clearly defined and I will stick to my contract.
If I see any improvement potential, but the matter is out of my range, I can only suggest like any other people and its then up to the responsible person to decide. I think this is the way it should go, because it clearly define the decision making process and reflects the hierarchies and much more important prevents people from internal power fights.
This on the other side ends up in a productive work stile and a clearly defined corporate culture, allowing having nice black figures at the end of the successful year.
It’s a complex matter, but I think you have to able to adapt and more important to be a team member.
And please don’t think I am a naïve boy, not understanding what I am doing, who never smelled the powder of power fights. I did couple of times and I saw people get sacked for a simple reason, they didn’t adapt to the new situation.
It’s not about the work any more it’s about politics and power.
Let me tell you also, that every time a new leader takes over the control, he sets up his rules and builds his team in order to realize his vision. Usual way to do so is, by bringing in people he, first of all, trusts. You know it better then me, you have been with EK. Certain groups are trying to pull there own people to increase there influence.
You are not the only one, who has lost the fight. There are many others everywhere in the world. You think its only happening here, far away, body.
By the time my ex company back in Europe was well off, the major shareholder has decided to bring in one of the most recognized LH managers, to improve the company position in the global competition, as we have been told. We have been presented a very promising perspective with growing market shares, fleet increment and of course a better carrier chances.
And guess what, the first think he has done, was he brought 12 permanent members of his own team. People, who are always following him everywhere, specialists in all the important departments. By bringing them in he completely disabled the current management and took over the power just in one day. We were all very impressed, because people hated own management of course and everybody said: Jesus, that man is our leader, he means it really seriously. The end of the story was absolutely unexpected and not even mentioned once, stop of operation. Very well organized killing of a potential threat on the market, all the airplanes have been brought to home base and none of them left next morning, so the owner could immediately pull them out. The owner by the way was the bank, which has financed 30% of LH fleet. We became too dangerous for LH and they took there chance. Only after all this happened everybody stared to realize, this man was a very well organized professional killer manager and he has done job brilliantly.
The conclusion of the story is: stay away from the politics and just do your job as good as you can, otherwise you will be sacked and if you challenge someone make sure you win.
I will stick to what I have.
That would be my advice to you, if I may make one.
The time will prove who is right and who is wrong. If I am going to get sacked for no reason, like you say, I will believe you, but I don’t think so.
Happy New Year to you once again.

[homesick rae]

Christ Popay, that was a bit long winded!!

You have lost me completely!

Why would I think you to be a threat. You are far from being a threat, but you may be jeopardising your own position by posting on here and moreso the tone of your posts. I am not the only one to mention that.

My advice was "wind your neck in"...in other words just keep a low profile. It works sometimes...but not always in QR!

Jeez, and I am totally amazed that you know so much about me!? Wow, hey, I'd better watch out eh? LOL

Peculiar though considering you are new to QR and I left the fold some time back.

But hey, post away and enjoy revelling in the thought that you know all about the people you work with, work for and ex QR crew, resigned, sacked, jumped ship or otherwise.

Sorry, your advice to me is stick to what I have? Oh, I will, believe me! Or was it to make sure if I challenge someone that I win? Well, thanks for your concern, and I will bear that in mind for the future...might use that one on my staff actually...mmm...yes good one that.

Popay, none of us are judging anyone, we are just saying that we know a bit more than you as far as QR is concerned because we have been there longer...that is all.

Try and have a happy new year. I know that I will!

spokoyni nochi

Cheers

HR

PS: Oh, my current CEO treats everyone humanely and equally. He is tough but fair, but a pleasure to work for. I report directly to him and attend meetings with him. He does not interfere with the Managers doing their job, nor the cabin crew or the ground staff. He simply smiles and says good morning and means it. He is very much aware of the FTLs and ensures that these are adhered to. In the area where we fly there is a lot of WX so there are often delays. I sincerely hope that QR have finally got a grip on the "Limits."

[willfly380]

guys guys stop this now. just ignore his posts and let this post end....... cant get in to an argument with a small child. sure yell at me and say its democracy and i should mind my own business.
hajj man has been fantastic every time and lets not even try to belittle him.
happy flying guys

[popay]

Well, once more. Of course I am no threat to you. According to your version I am endangering my position because of expressing my self on this forum. As a consequence I am going to be sacked by "unfair" management and will join the team of innocent victims. That’s why I have said to you: don’t worry about me, take care of you self.
The time will prove it who is right and who is wrong.
One more thing I still don’t get. Why do you still care so much about QR, if you are so happy now? Can’t you just forget us and enjoy your perfect life. I would do it if I was you. I would follow the advice of great protector of democracy willfly380 and just ignore everything about QR.

Results as follow:
one homesick ray not with QR any more on the war trip to get satisfaction by discrediting the management for personal reasons.

Credibility-NIL.

Couple of daddies, still with us, promoted them self to an independent voice of staff, of course without our authorisation, but in this case all the principals of law can just be skipped, trying to implement censure on the public opinion. Smells a bit like dictatorship.

Credibility-poor.

That’s how the public opinion is created here

Internal affairs should be discussed on the internal server with restricted access with clear identification of the participator. This ensures solving of the problems and proper representing of the company.

I think the decision for those who consider coming here will be much clearer now.
Cheers.

[homesick rae]

Willfly 380:

Yes, you are correct and Popay is now on my ignore list. I have had enough of his inane ramblings and tomorrow is another year! Happy New Year to you!

Popay, unfortunately I live in a country that I'd rather not, so it is not quite perfect, but as we head into another year, the most important thing is my family. The fact that I have a good job also helps. In answer to your question as to why I care so much: I have family at QR! Simple as that!!

Hajjman: thank you for your excellent posts and I sincerely hope you succeed in getting through to people like Popay. I am off this one. Happy New Year to you!

A300 Man/BKK Layover/Aviaco/Strength/ Mutt: All the best for 2005!

4HP: Happy New Year to you and thank you for keeping tabs on things!

First New Year's resolution: let Popay's rambling reach other eyes and ears not mine!! LOL

Cheers everyone.

HR

[capt.magoo]

I believe that is right for this month as they say.

However what is amazing that there is hardly any sick reports , I do not know if they like the flying or the money?

Cheers

[strength]

I've actually had an 8hr turnaround at manilla and was exhausted so this statement is true, lucky for you if you had more time to rest.

CRM is dreadful, some Captains are still insisting on females to "serve" them, there is still hitler styles of behaviour from a few captains enforcing the fear factor throughout the airlines cabin crew...there are,however, some very polite,kind guys there too.

Speaking of polite, i'll now mention the opposite: Saliya the snake! I heard that Neomal was fired some time ago - did the snake have something to do with it?

Also heard that a certain female had left QR, came back and had only 3 days training. Of course, it helps if you're in with the snake. MR. AAB watch this space!!!

[hostler]

?