PPP - implications for non-commercial traffic in uncontrolled airspace

[arrow2]

Whilst I think I have a fairly good handle on the pros and cons of PPP as far as commercial traffic is concerned does anyone out there have a grasp on what this will / could mean for the typical private pilot. I am really thinking about the likes of me who use a tourer for travel around the UK and cross channel on a fairly regular basis, mainly VFR in Class G airspace but occasionally VFR in class D and IFR in classes D & G. Who will pay for London Info (an excellent, if limited service) and the various LARS units? What is in it for a BA/BM/Virgin led consortium to maintain these types of service? Any protection proposed in the legislation to force their retention?

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[NudgingSteel]

As I understand it, the Government is refusing to lay down any rules that might put off a potential purchaser.(ie safeguarding service levels or staff conditions) In answer to your specific query, I would not be in the least bit surprised if VFR services within Class D became chargeable quite soon. Perhaps later on you'd get charged for all services, including FIS in Class G. Don't forget, all these VFR services are subsidised by IFR customers (ie the airlines) at present, and there has already been discussion along the lines of "everybody pays something for the service they receive".
But perhaps I'm just being cynical!

[Bright-Ling]

MMmmmm....LARS:

Well, most are aware that in the South-East the LARS is diminshing quickly.

Dunsfold closed some time ago, and there is little between London and the South Coast - apart from Farnborough. Luton is going soon and this good be disastorous for the South East.

The thing that really annoys me is the fact that we (PPL's) pay really in licence fees/examining etc. Maybe the CAA who reaps all theses fees should pay some pack to LARS providers.

[Chilli Monster]

Interesting comment about charging for Class D - who would you pay bearing in mind not all the class D units are NATS.

As a taxpayer why SHOULD you pay Lyneham or Brize to transit their zone ;)

[QNH 1013]

Surely we ARE paying already. Most VFR flying (and a lot of IFR flying) is done on AVGAS and even though AVGAS is not a road fuel there is still a hefty Excise Duty on it.
When I asked Customs and Excise what the duty on AVGAS was they told me it was 50% of the road fuel duty. Plus, of course, vat at 17.5%. I would have thought that the vat element alone would more than cover the marginal cost of providing Air Traffic Services to GA a/c.

[Chilli Monster]

Q1013

The Government ploughing the money from taxation back to help its source - there's a novel concept.

But unfortuanately not one that will happen when you've got Hospitals and Single mothers to support :rolleyes:

Still in a perfect world - that one that will never happen!

[HounslowHarry]

You get nowt for nothing when you are dealing with profit making "Enterprises"

LARS - finished

Heli routes through the London Control zone - charge for service.

Transit controlled airspace - why should you get any additional service or cause the business any additional workload for no charge?

Flight planning for free?

And there's lots more!

Private pilots and GA - wake up and brace yourself for the wind's of change that are about to blow you all away.

[arrow2]

Thanks all - Hounslow Harry - well I have certainly woken up. I can't help but think that these probable impacts / changes are just another example of the general malaise that is affecting everyday life in the UK (you know the ones - Railtrack can't organise a p*** up in a brewery, that sort of thing). ATSORA are already creaking under the strain and things are certainly not going to get better. Seen how busy Farnborough Radar on a typical Sat/Sun? Most of the time you can only get a FIS from them with no radar. Amazed at their professionalism and how they cope - I would not last 5 minutes. What can we do? Yeh, you can write to your MP etc.etc. Been there, done that. I guess raises awareness but GA does not have the voice against the single mums/latest Blair "Dome" project etc. At least my MP (Gerald Howarth) is sympathetic being a flyer. I am off to live in France when I retire!!!

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[RATBOY]

Arrow 2: If you are looking for less regulation try Alaska. It is theoretically part of USA, has lots of uncontrolled airspace. The joke is half of all Alaskans fly airplanes and half of them have pilot's licenses.

[arrow2]

Don't mind reasonable regulation Ratboy, but what I do want is the continuation of a quality service. Have read various articles about flying in Alaska, sounds great but I expect wx can be variable.....guess they all fly big aircraft with big tyres to accomodate the shot wildlife etc!!! ;)

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[OrsonCart]

If you want a LARS service any ATC radar unit could provide it in theory. Market forces however dictate that the ‘pool’ of money available to participating units is very small and does not cover the cost of committing an ATCO to the task.

In a commercial world therefore unless the ‘pool’ increases, the availability of LARS will diminish. If you fly north bound from the London area, the first designated LARS unit is now Cottesmore, which is North West of Peterborough however, any unit with radar, subject to workload can provide a LARS service.

[3rd Runway]

It seems to me that the only agencies still commited to LARS are the military. Chilli, don't forget, the military are also tax payers, therefore we are actually self employed!!

[Chilli Monster]

3rd Runway

Don't I know it :)
After 15 years in a blue suit I took the Big 'R' 5 years ago and reckon I got back all the tax I'd paid in those 15 years - Some of it paid for Bailbrook :)