ATCO Decision now Excited/scared bout CATC

[Scotsliveit]

Well I've read this forum with deep interest over the last few days. It's given me alot of the information that I couldn't find anywhere else especially NATS Hr over the last year.

I passed the selection tests and the interviews first time this year. Recently passed passed the medical and looks like I'm heading down to CATC in March 05. (a year from sitting the tests, not bad if all goes smoothly)

How long would someone applying in 2001/2002 have had too wait?

This is probably the biggest decision I've ever made in my life. I like a gamble though but gambling with my career ..ahh.

I'm in my late twenties so it's the only chance I've got to do it. I've been fascinated with avaition since a baby. Almost joined the RAF as a pilot after Honours degree. Opted instead to play safe and do my Masters degree.

Now I'm taking more than a 50% paycut to become a trainee. Selling my flat and possibly giving up alot of little luxuries in life, leather sofas, sky, superkingsize bed, living alone and Celtic football club.

rite nuff of that tears on my pillow p*sh. I'm gonna/have to do it. To hear you guys describing it as the best job in the world, and still enjoying the buzz and challenge is great.

Now listening to the kids talking is great as they're excited and motivated but they're not giving up anything to do it. Everything is a plus for them. I am more interested in the guys like myself who've given up good careers (which they're less passionate about) to persue this.

Another thing is I love living on my own, yep sure I'll stay in a Boscombe B&B for a few weeks to booze with the gang and try and suss out a cool flat.

Is it affordable for a trainee to live on their todd? And have the crew round when suits?

It's going to weird being one of the older ones as I've always been one of the younger ones. At least though they'll always be up for a night out unlike my troops here who're hiding in their houses with their girlfriends(or certain publications).

Anyhow's I'd like to hear from anyone else who was in my situation.

Also the true pros and cons of ATCO life from the inside(besides the buzz of the job). 181 days off a year etc. Do you get cheap holidays? What is it about the lifestyle you guys love? Note I also want to hear the bad points from your side.

I'm slightly concerned bout the shiftwork aspect. It teriffies me to think about being sleepy on this job. Also you miss the footy sometimes (get over it)

Oh yeah is there ever any hot girls on the courses at CATC? ;0)

[mickrobbo]

Hi, I start the college on Dec 6th. I have taken a 60% paycut from a solid career to do something I've always wanted to do. This means leaving my wife up north, still paying the mortgage, and living without lifes luxuries for a while.

I applied in March 2003 so its 20mths or so to get here.....

I looked at getting a studio flat on my own and prices look to be from about £500 upward. The college advises against this as there will be times when you are away from the college, ie on the job training etc, and they won't pay the accommodation allowance when you are not there, so you would have to find the extra cash to pay for your rent.

Think about it, work hard for couple of years and you'll be back to life's luxuries in no time, with the best job in the world....that swung it for me....:ok:

Best of luck with whatever decision you make.

[Scotsliveit]

Cheers Mick

I'll definitely take the opportunity to give this a shot. It's great to hear from people like yourself who are in a similar situation.

I'm sure we'll be around the same table having a couple of Jars at some point.

Certainly with the things we are giving up they're will certainly be a drive within us.

Concerning flats etc I'll cross that bridge when I come to it and I'll go with the flow.

It's good to hear your wife etc are supporting you.

I know Bournemouth very well and it's a good town. I'll miss the big city a bit though but I've had that for ten years.

Very much looking forward to the adventure and challanges ahead.

[ILS 119.5]

You will find the sacrifice far outweighs any of the downsides to the job. The only part I didn't like was the night shifts but if you prepare for them then no problem. Obviousely you cannot go out every friday and saturday night with your mates but when you are off for the weekend then you look forward to it more. You can also go shopping without the hussle and bussle of saturdays when everyone else is. You will soon get used to shift work and I'm sure you'll find it to be ok. Enjoy the job it's great, if you do not like shifts then there are plenty of opportunities within NATS to work 9-5. If you also plan your leave well in advance then it helps. Like you say 180 days working per annum, not bad. A good wedge in your hand every month, not bad. Discounted holidays through UKATTS, not bad. Discounted flights through the Guild, not bad. All in all bloody good. Concentrate and pass your exams, validate and then decide.

Rgds

ILS 119.5

[rodan]

When I was there it was entirely possible to get a 1 bedroom flat in Boscombe within the accomodation allowance, but I don't know what the rental market is like these days. I was like you, used to living alone and not keen on spending 18 months, as it was then, in a B&B. Others shared houses together and seemed to have no problems.

The warning about not getting money to pay for a flat when you are away doing your 3 months OJT at a unit (do they still have that on the new area course?) is relevant, but keep in mind that there will be people at the college at a different stage in their training who will only be too happy to take over your flat for 3 months while you are away and pay you their allowance - that was certainly my experience. Technically it's sub-letting, but who needs to know?

[Scotsliveit]

Thanks
I'll certainly look into living alone and possibly sub letting. I've had a few wild nights in Bournemouth and know the town quite well. I have been told by a girlfriend down there that Boscombe is a bit dodgy.

You know what it's like though you hear that about alot of places that actually are fine.

Beyond the job do you guys find you tend to only socialise with other ATCO's? Bit like oil rig workers they're always off while everyone else is working. I'm sure i'll adjust to shifts when I eventually do them.

Haha this may sound shallow but as a single guy I do wonder what sort of women I'll meet in this job.

Mind off the girls there's alot of work to be done.

[rodan]

I have been told by a girlfriend down there that Boscombe is a bit dodgy.

Heheh. It's slightly dodgy, but mainly fine. Certainly nothing that should concern a Glaswegian. It's no worse than, say, Partick. Most of the student controllers seem to end up living there, whether it's in B&B's or flats.

[ILS 119.5]

You do tend to socialise with your watch, when I was at LATCC we all tended to go out together, play 5 a side after an early shift etc. It all depends where you are posted, At the larger units then you will socialise with your colleagues, however that will also depend on where they live as they could be 30 miles east and you could be 30 miles west. Smaller units may be a bit different, but due to the nature of shift work and being off at the same time as your colleagues the it is only natural that yo mix with them.

Rgds

ILS 119.5

[dannyo]

I start in December as you may have seen already and am too, taking a substantial cut in salary to follow a dream! From what I have seen, it WILL be worth it in the long run!! The career sounds fantastic, the time off is crackin if you have a family etc...etc...

I will be leaving my wife and 5 month old son back home whilst I train and by the looks I will not be alone in the early Monday start and mad dash Friday afternoon thing!!

As a famous advertuising agency once said to a running shoe manufacturer; Just do it!

*edited as those b@stard grmelins got to me spellin!!:*

[Vlad the Impaler]

Obviously I can only speak from my own experiences (makes a change some might say) but I started at the college aged 26 with a young family. It was a big gamble and it has been a long hard slog.....count the grey hairs...BUT...there isn't any one of my friends who enjoy their job as much as I do. If ATC is for you, and it isn't everybody's cup of tea, then I really believe there is no better job in the world. The downside is the graft you have to put in to become valid. There will be many hurdles and obstacles on the way but stick at it. If you do get through the other side then I very much doubt you'll ever regret it.
Good Luck
V

[Scotsliveit]

It's great to read the posts from the guys who have gave up so much more than me to give this a shot. Young families and wives etc being left at home, and still paying the mortgage while training.

I'm up for the challenge ahead and it really is what I need at this point of my life. I've always felt guilty buying houses and cars in my present position as I have no true real passion for it and it's all about money. I often regret not following one of my passions when I was younger (aviation) being one. This is my chance before I'm thirty to do this.

It's heartening to hear of the other guys like myself taking the 50% plus pay cuts to do this. It ratifies to me that I'm not insane to be changing my career this way and I look forward to giving you all my support in the trek towards validation.

In some ways we could be worse off. I have four years experience in a good career, if things go wrong I fall back on my qualifications and experience and start this career again on a pay rise knowing that I gave this a shot.

I'll make sure that doesn't happen by giving my all to make a success of this.

The youngsters have nothing to fall back on and may have to consider a different career are scramble an ATSA position if the worst happens.

Another thing that appeals to me is being around people with a similar goal as myself. Not all exactly the same as me (that would be boring) but a team in the true sense. (I think thats why area control at Swanwick appeals to me at the moment). I don't really have that in my career just now. Tend to live for the weekend and that's not life.

My friends and family are fully behind me with some reservations. This is a bit deep but alot of them think I just need a great women in my life to haha rescue me from my bachelor lifestyle. They think this is me taking a backward step from settling down as they know it would be hard to start any serious relationship during the training ahead due to the intensity of it and the possible geographic mobility.

Sorry to go on a bit but just sharing my thoughts with guys who may be in the same position.

Hopefully our journey through the college shouldn't be as long as some (courses 124 - 128) due to course restructure. I know it's talking way off in the future but it's in NATS interest to get us valid in the best possible time (hard when there is a shortage of ATCO's for OJT when out at the unit)

Well that's the heart on the sleeve bit over haha you won't find me this honest and emotional when we meet in the pub ;0)

I'll be sticking all my furniture into storage, selling the flat and living in Boscombe for a wee bit to really get to know the gang.

Then I'll probably be scoping for an unfurnished flat to get my furniture down and wire in. Is sub letting legal??

yeh Rodan you\'re right. Partick has a few maddies living there but it\'s mainly alright. Lot\'s of students, good people etc. I lived there as a student.


Oh my GOD I\'m becoming a student again.

In addition do you have to pay my favourite tax COUNCIL TAX while you\'re at CATC??

[sla]

How many women are there normally per course?

I ask this as a woman myself, are we in a small minority? Any other girls out there starting in March? Any other Mums even, or will I be the only one?

[Scotsliveit]

Yep I'm totally shallow and superficial and have decided to pursue a career as an ATCO in NATS to meet women. Yeh right.

I'm interested in what sort of people I'm going to meet. Being a young guy of course I'm interested in what sort of women tend to go for ATC. If it's women from all different types of backgrounds etc.

I was interested in the single mothers thread on here which I read with interest. The fact is it's a male dominated profession 75% male to 25% female.

Why don't you answer the council tax question which would be more constructive instead of making assumptions.

[Scotsliveit]

Hi there, haha yeh I'm chilled. You've got me smilling in the office.

I look forward to meeting you to in March hopefully. haha this is weird that we are begining to meet each other before we actually meet each other.

The excitement's building already.

yeh Council tax. I am no longer smiling in the office;)

[Gonzo]

One possible downside to the shift working is the planning ahead.

No more arranging with your mates on Thursday evening to go out on Friday. That's something that 'real world' friends might have problems understanding. They often can't seem to grasp the fact that when you say you can't, becasue you're working, means you really, really can't; there's no more leave available.

ATCOs are very incestuous (must be all that time off together) and promiscuous; the number of affairs that go on must be above average, as must be the rate of divorce. Also the number of ATCO couples is high.

[Scotsliveit]

haha promiscious you're selling the job well Gonzo. (joking folks)

Are you serious about this though and do you think the different working environment from the norm is the catalyst for this?

The reason why I'm rolling with you on this one Gonzo is I know an ATC who could be described as this. I'll leave it at that.

[Scotsliveit]

I think one of my concerns about this job is due to the opaque nature of it. i.e you don't know the true nature of the job until you do it.

I'm concerned about sleep patterns. I like my sleep, one of my fave vices it is. I'm alarmed by the idea of doing this job slightly sleepy or with a bit of the cold.

Today I have a bit of a cold in my head so it's affecting my work a bit (plus it's friday) as an ATCO what would the consequencies be I wonder.

[Gonzo]

Yes, I'm serious. As to the whys and wherefores, I have no idea.
Those who know me know my thoughts on it. I would imagine it's a combination of long periods of time off together, long periods at work together and shift work (easier to lie to 'other half'....'yes dear, I've got a night shift tonight!').

Personally I don't have a problem with the sleep patterns, but then I can get by on little sleep. Many of my colleagues have problems sleeping before an early morning shift.

Regarding illness/tiredness 'affecting my work', the simple answer is that you shouldn't be there if that's the case. Take the day off.

[green screen]

made me laugh thinking of the earlier quote that ATC is male dominated, 75% male to 25% female, then reading of the affairs. Either there's a couple of slappers around here, or some same bus experimentation going on!
Great job, great life

[expedite_climb]

sla / pumuckl - I know a young lady who I think might be on your course - and I don't think it is either of you two.... so that makes 3 of you at least !

[Jerricho]

Either there's a couple of slappers around here

He he. Ladies and gentlemen, I present you Point 7. :E

[Gonzo]

Damn Jer, beat me to it!

I'm worried about him.... he was in work trying to look important the other day, as befits his new Ops job, but you know what, it looked to me as if he was wearing a suit: Shirt, tie, jacket, everything!

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[rodan]

Council tax question:

Again, this info may be out of date, but we got a council tax exemption because the college provided a letter stating that we were on a course of full time education. I assume it's still the same?

[Jerricho]

it looked to me as if he was wearing a suit: Shirt, tie, jacket, everything!

He must have had a court appearance that afternoon.

[AlanM]

He must have had a court appearance that afternoon.

And THAT coming from an a nation fo convicts!!! :)

Leave my mate P7 alone - when he is Chief Exec of Nats you will all be sorry......

[mr.777]

Scots

I was in the same boat as you.Started in Mar04,course 130 this year at the tender age of 30.
I took a £15k pay cut and I've really struggled financially over the last 6 months,been using my plastic friend to help me out! That said,I have NO complaints because this is the best job in the world. I've got 5-6 months left at the college (summatives permitting!) and I've loved every minute. Be under no illusions,the College is seriously hard work,but its great fun too. The instructors are excellent and so are the courses.
Try and not worry abiut money,just do what I do and think what you'll be earning when you get out!!
Best of luck,


777

P.s Yes you do unfortunately have to pay council tax,the exemption was cancelled a while ago.

[Scotsliveit]

Thanks 777. That's certainly great encouragement hearing you're in the same boat as myself really.

But Ouch having to pay council tax on that salary, that's going to hurt most and really effect the standard of life. I suppose that pushing me towards the idea of sharing a big house with a couple of people now. I'd be interested in what your living arrangement are 777. Also interested in how you came across ATC as a career and what your motivations to go for it were.

Life's about sacrifices and we all know why were're doing this or planning to do it. I have never heard of any profession where people say they love their job so much and it's the best job in the world.

There's also that feeling that you're all aiming for the same thing. Having that in common creates very strong bonds. It was similar when I passed my pilot tests at Cranwell. Everyone clicked because we had common aims. Different personalities to bounce off though which made it fun.

Perhaps the reason why the application process is so long is the NATS wants to be sure it's not a whim you're indulging and that you really want to do it before they begin to spend a quarter million training you.

During the last few months I've really been thinking about this and know I have to do it in the end. Yesterday for example when I was hungover : 'I'm thinking oh my God I'm a really going give all this up to go for it, I love this city, I love my friends/family/dog.'

In the end though I don't love my job and I'm gripped and fascinated with this career.

ppmuckle 3:1 female to male ratio is fine by me ;) One of my concerns coming from a 'normal' job was that I'd find myself in an overly male environment. Although my Consultant job at the moment is a bit overly female which can be just as bad.

When I used the word scared in the title of the thread I was just expressing concern about the opaque nature of the job. You don't really know what it is until you do it. I wonder if the tests I've passed really mean I'm suitable for the job. I know I've got alot of hard work ahead of me even though I consider myself a bright spark, it's the natural ability thing though.

Those with experience may laugh at this but I'm considering really going to town on brushing up my mental arithmetic as i haven't really used that under fire since first and second year at secondary school :uhoh: (and then lives and my career didn't depend on it.)

Can't wait till March though fingers crossed when that letter comes through I can go about selling the flat.

I'm grateful for the feedback everyone.

[Smoggie]

Hi pumuckl and sla,

I'm another female on the March 04 course and as far as I'm aware I dont know expedite_climb so I make that a 4:1 ratio.

See you in March :D

[expedite_climb]

Smoggie - I have distinct feeling you do know me ! ;)

[I'm not joking sir]

I'm on the March course. Sorry to bring the ratio down but it's 4:2 now. (Four of you, two of us... is that Pimm's O'Clock:) :) )

Being from Southampton and working at Gatwick at least I'll have something in common with two of you.

Add in the fact that Scotsliveit is from north of the wall so presumably knows his way to the bar...

Yep, ding dang do springs to mind!:ok:

[Scotsliveit]

Yes the bar will certainly be found on occasion :)

i'm also a fitness fanatic and thrills junkie so I'll be looking for a good gym and lamenting the fact that there may be less mountains to climb on the south coast.

Talking of the March course has anyone received a confirmation letter or are we all just pencilled in?

I'm dreading being told I'll have to wait longer as I really just want to get on with this.

I'm considering opening another thread about ATCO holidays and how many days they actually get off a year i.e they work 181 days.

[sla]

I was told that I would receive a letter in 2 months, that was at the beginning of November, apparantly HR were too busy dealing with the December course, so I may phone up to see how it's going mid December, because I feel the same, it would be really frustrating to be pushed back a course and it would be much better to have something in writing. Also I want to know all the details.

[gilaine]

I wouldn't worry, I think they may have a few spare spots on the march course now as I was 'pencilled in' for it and I got the call for December. Very scary and last-minute (6 weeks notice) but honestly it put a fire under me and got me out of working for a certain ground handling agent for a few extra months YAY!
I also know one other person who posts on here that was down for March but took December. So there's two less people fighting for March places.

Oh, and for the sake of the stats, I'm a lass.

While we're on the subject of stats, what seems to be the North/South ratio?

[Mr Chips]

I'm considering opening another thread about ATCO holidays and how many days they actually get off a year i.e they work 181 days.
And your point is?

[Billy Onions]

This is all encouraging stuff. I've been told over the phone that I'm in for June 2005 but I've already quit (the temptation was too much) and asked of the possibility to get on in March. Just by the by - how long were folks waiting for paperwork - ie medical etc after email confirming passing stage 2. I just want it all signed sealed delivered ASAP with the chance of getting March course. Oh - and just for the stats: I'm a bloke, and for the other worries I'm taking the big pay cut too. Here's hoping it all goes well then or we're all :mad:

[Jerricho]

Scotsliveit, I'm just a little curious as you would want to open "that" thread?

[Scotsliveit]

Concerning the holiday thread. I'm just wondering what the holiday entitlement of a working ATCO is. That is what their actual annual leave is.

In my job as in most I have 22 days annual leave. I'll then have bank holidays on top of that. There are ways I can get more in my present position but that involves flexi time and flexi days.

I don't know if I've struck a nerve here or something about days off but I take it having four days off before six days on goes a long way to only working 181 days a year.

I'm also showing my age here perhaps but I'm also interested in if there are medical and dental plans etc. I've all ready done the research on the pension. God Mr Serious nowadays is I.

I won't bother starting a new thread then and just see if it's answered here. This would go quite a bit towards understanding the lifestyle of an ATCO. Every ATC'er I've ever met has told me they love their job and get alot of time to indulge their hobbies.

Hi Billy Onions it is so tempting to go down a gear when you've got a date to aim for. June though seems a long way off still, whereas with all the organisation necessary March ain't too for away. Have you actually quit Billy or are you working notice.

I waited a very long time for medical paperwork to come through. I was offered the place in May and just had my Medical in early November. I phoned quite a few times though.

I'd be interested in hearing your background Billy as it sounds very similar to my own as does your excitement about the challanges ahead. Private message me if you fancy.

[mickrobbo]

Billy....it varies dramatically as to when people get there paperwork. I passed my second stage interview back in July, and had my medical 3wks ago for start date of Dec 6th. I got all my paperwork from the college etc 2 weeks ago, so all is rosy in the world...it was a bit stressful during the wait...however, some people have had there medicals for months and have all paperwork etc...my advise is to keep chasing it up, all the time!

Scotsliveit....according to my terms/cons of employment when I leave the college I am entitled to 28 days annual leave. I don't know if this increase the more time you are with NATS but thats the info I was given...hope that helps.

[foghorn]

Another March bod here. Male too.

I have been pencilled in for March for about 3 months now because I turned down a place on the December course because March fitted my plans better.

I get the feeling that HR won't be that bothered with us until they've got the December course started, so I expect to hear that my references have been finally taken up and get a firm letter about the course then.

[mainecoon]

micks info is correct
28 days plus bank holidays(8 i think)
after ten years you get more(4 days but to busy enjoying time off to remember)
all the best:ok:

[stevethescotspilot]

Hey guys.

First time I've looked at PPRUNE for a long time so I've only just noticed this thread. I'm in for March as well (7th I believe) and I'm also going to be moving down from Glasgow. May as well just add for the stats that I'm a guy. I also know another Glasgow guy who will be starting in March so that should be three Scottish guys on the course at least! Hope the bars down there are hiring extra staff!

Like everyone else here it seems, I can't wait to start either! working for Servisair at Glasgow Airport right now, which may be an advantage for me as I now have no fears about sh*t wages, crazy shifts etc!! looking forward to getting back to a much more steady lifestyle, actually!

Reading about people's accommodation issues got my attention- myself and my friend were thinking of sharing a flat/house in the area, going to start making some phone calls to numbers on the NATS accommodation list soon. If anyone else in the same boat has any advice or possibilities to follow up, hearing from them would be much appreciated!

(Scots live it- gimme a PM if you fancy meeting up for a drink sometime before we start. Would be good to get to know people before the actual time comes to work together!)

Same goes for anyone else starting in March- would be good to know who you all are so get in touch!

Steve

[BigBazza]

Hi Folks,

Another 'oldie' here....passed the 31 mark in September...and have just passed the medical, etc. Have been told verbally that I am pencilled in for the June '05 course, although that may be the March 05 course, just depending on how things go. Has taken about 18 months to get this far (applied only 3 months before age-bar!)

Like so many here, I too am leaving a secure career and taking a healthy drop in salary too, all in the hope of living the life-long dream.

I'm also another one from 'North of the Wall' so at least us Scots are putting in a bit of a showing!

Take care

BigBazza

[a_exley]

I am moving down this saturday to start my course on december 6th. I have spoke to the council at bournemouth and they said I dont have to pay counicl tax. which is good but if you are living with someone they have to pay it "if they are not a student" but they will get 25% discount because u are. PS I picked up a nice 2 bedroom flat in Boscombe for £550 pcm. :ok:

[fly bhoy]

I have spoke to the council at bournemouth and they said I dont have to pay counicl tax

A exley

I started the course about a year ago and was initially told by the council that we didn't have to pay council tax, but the person I spoke to didn't seem overly confident of the fact, shall we say!! So I phoned again a couple of days later, and I'm afraid I was told you do have to pay it as you earn a salary.

It may well be that since the salary has gone down from my course that you are tax-exempt, but certainly a year ago we all had to pay!!:{ :mad:

I would try phoning again and speaking to someone competent like a manager or something just to be sure.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings mate, but the last thing you want is to be halfway through your course when you get a huge bill for six months worth of tax!!!!:{ :{

FB

[Scotsliveit]

It really would be great to get a definate on Council tax while at CATC at the moment as this really will effect our lifetsyles down there.

It's quite interesting that most of us seem to be career changers in our late 20's early 30's and were taking less(salary that is) than the majority of seemingly younger students had in the past.

I've been reading an old thread mainly concerning Kirstey and Mr 777 about the drop in students salaries with interest.

What I'm worried about is do we still get as little during our non set time to get validated at a unit. The thread read 19K which is still poor.

What I'm saying is it may be longer than a couple of years that we're struggling financially on the long trek to validation.

Do you still get a pay rise when you pass certain sections of the course at CATC.

I found out about the pay drop five minutes before my final interview from one of my fellow candidates. I was annoyed after the interview because of it. After some thinking tho i realised I wasn't going to let four grand stop me doing this. Was that you conclusion mr777.

I'm wondering if Kirsty ever did start the course, I'll do a thread search to find out.

[Jerricho]

As poor as the pay may be while training, be thankful you're not an Ab-initio in Canada. They have to pay for their course.

[mr.777]

In all fairness,and Jerricho and others can attest to this :O ,I was a bit of an idiot on that thread,guilty as charged of shooting my mouth off!! Easy for me to say as I'm on the old salary,but don't let it dissuade you from following your dream....the College is the dogs proverbials as are the instructors...you will have a great time. This is the most challenging thing I have ever done,which is why I wanted the job...

777

[sr562]

Hi everyone,

Been reading with interest, as i start in march too. I am also a guy from scotland, known to bigbazza and stevethescotspilot who even gave me a mention in his post, thanks steve.

i am also going to be taking a big pay cut, and like others will most likely struggle financially.
But this is the career that i want, and nothing is going to stop me from giving it my best shot.

Anyway, i am lookin forward to getting started and meeting all of the other folks on the march course and a few years of hard graft, and good times.

P.S Respect to all you folks giving up young families to pursue this career, takes a lot of guts to make that decision, most people would take the easy option, and wonder 'what if' for the rest of their lives.

[fly bhoy]

P.S Respect to all you folks giving up young families to pursue this career

Giving up your previous career is one thing, but giving up your family...?!? Surely a bit extreme!!!!;) :D :ok:

[foghorn]

Giving up your previous career is one thing, but giving up your family...?!? Surely a bit extreme!!!!

I hear they fetch a good price these days :}

[sr562]

Hi,

fly bhoy, well spotted. But as foghorn said, you might get a good price for them.

:O

[Scotsliveit]

"How much for the little geerl?"

"Sell them to me. Sell me your children!!"

The Blues Brothers circa 1981


I need to clarify whether we will be on just 19K without living expenses after graduating the college (in swanwick). This can't be right, that's less than we get going through CATC.

Sticks in the craw that someone the year before will be on around 27K and will also benefit from the bigger salary after validation.

About to sign on the dotted line and money is the last hurdle to this exciting career for me.

[fly bhoy]

Scotsliveit

Sign the form and quickly. You'll not regret it.

With regards to the money, the people from a year before who will be on more through the college will not have a higher salary after validation, thats one of the features of the new pay scale for trainees. Although you'll start on comparatively lower wages through the college and t+d scale, once you hit the atco scale, the pay jumps for new trainees are much higher than for people who went through on the old scale.

You will be on about 19k total going through the college (you can claim one trip home to the parental home per month at 18p per mile so scottish people who drive end up making a wee bit more...one more perk of being a scot;) :ok: !!!) Then onto about 22k during your unit validation then about 27k after your first validation. Your first payrise after that takes you up to about 39k however!! Not a bad jump you'll agree:ok: :ok:

PM me for more info on the payscale. There's also a brilliant celtic supporters club which i'll tell you about but won't annoy anyone on here about!!!!;)

FB

[Scotsliveit]

Cheers Fly Bhoy

I've got to sign, It's the next chapter of my life.

Thanks for the payscales, basically it seems we're £4K down from the previous lot all the way to validation.

Aye I'll PM you about the old hoops supporters club, sounds good. I'll probably join a football side as well when I'm down. Will miss all the different nationalities arriving in Glasgow every second week for the champions league and UEFA cup runs. What a Buzz.

The timescales involved at each stage after graduating are interesting though. Any idea how long first validation will take (roughly)? Is it 2 years after graduating CATC (all going smoothly) £39K becomes a possibility?

I'll be asking HR this after they've had the Dec 6th lot settle in. This website has been a God sent tho.


S

[Gonzo]

Validation depends on where you go. London City could be a few months after leaving the college, Swanwick could be a few years!

[Scotsliveit]

Let the dice roll baby.

Thanks Gonzo.

I take it validation time will depend on the amount of operational instructors available to let us use their licence.

At Swanwick there are few due to staff shortages and alot of graduates awaiting validation.

[I'm not joking sir]

I need to clarify whether we will be on just 19K without living expenses after graduating the college (in swanwick). This can't be right, that's less than we get going through CATC.

Without living expenses, basic salary going through the College is approx 14.5/15k. As fly bhoy says, 19k includes accomodation allowance. Your basic will be slightly higher than that total when you get posted to a unit plus there's UHP to come too.

[foghorn]

I'm going to be putting several calls in to HR after they've got course 201 bedded in.

I'm now looking at buying a house in the West Hampshire area (commutable to both Hurn and Swanwick), so I need to know the real deal on the salary and that I am definitely going to be on the March course as they have offered!

[Gonzo]

Validation time is more affected by complexity and traffic levels at the unit, and waiting time (at TC, LACC etc) to start training. If you go area, you spend the first few months out of the college doing ATSA duties, waiting for a sim-based course that's specific to the sector you're being assigned to train on first, then only after passing that do you go on to live training, so when you use the R/T for real you'll already be pretty experienced with the sector procedures and agreements.

At Heathrow Tower you spend up to two weeks or so with our Training Section on an induction course, then about six weeks live training that doesn't count towards your validation (effectively what used to be known as OJT), then three weeks doing ATSA duties, then back to Training for another week of visits, and 'top-up' induction, then back to a watch to begin unit validation training. Seven months to a year after that you'll be valid.

Foghorn,

Be careful, have you thought what you'd do if you got posted to Aberdeen after a year?

Or even Stansted after six months?

[foghorn]

Gonzo - I know. I'm already looking at all options. My family situation and a demanding pregnant missus mean renting is not really an option :eek:

I'm playing the Swanwick option as it seems to be where the majority are being sent and will offer the maximum family stability - I know that Sod's law always applies in these situations :D Having to move again is just an eventuality I'll have to deal with at the time.

[Taffy1]

Whatever the pay, im just looking fwd to get started down at CATC. Passed final interviews sep2004, just waiting to get the dates to start, mentioned oct2005, seems really far away.

The pay may not seem like much to some if not most of you, but the ones of us that have actually got in with NATS are surley the lucky ones, so many of my workmates and friends have tried many times and failed so i really do consider myself to be very lucky, and will "struggle" along on 19.5k while i train for my dream job!!

Taffy1

[Scuzi]

and will "struggle" along on 19.5k while i train for my dream job!!

Haven't they told you? It's £14.4k now.

[Inverted81]

Hey all,
i haven't read all the posts but i'm getting the general idea of the whole topic. As Scuzi and others have said, yeah the pays lower 14.4K ish plus WAP payments (£400 ish a month).
One major piece of advice, is that if you can avoid being tied into an accomodation contract, then avoid them like the plague. Chances are you will be very "mobile" whilst training at the college. Yes initially, for the first two and a bit months, whilst on the intro course, all your worries will be with passing!.. then comes flying training... with us (201) it was in 3 locations, bournemouth, wycombe and manston. so be prepared to be placed away. then comes your hols (no wap payment) then the biggy (for us) ops famil. some are at Swanwick (v. few) others at LTCC, scottish and manchester. We are there till feb some time, so the majority of us have had to move out of bournemouth altogether and will have to find new accom when we get back. I was lucky in that i got a 6 month contract with an opt out at 3,4 and 5 months. so ask. Otherwise for the non-family committed guys and gals theres always the B&B's in Westby road in Boscombe. :cool:

any Q's on general college bits and pieces or anything else drop me a pm.
Have fun and look forward to it!!!!! :O :} :D
C

[Gonzo]

It's 14.4k plus 100 a week tax free, which works out to around 19k.

[Nuisance]

Foghorn

Don't hang too much on a start date from HR til you've signed on the dotted line (and even then...). Most of us on 201 waited up to 3 years from applying to starting, and were given several different start dates. And listen to ChrisF's wise words about accommodation - if you can avoid committing yourself to anything - do! The college can and will send you to all sorts of places during the course for varying lengths of time depending on which discipline you end up in. And of course there's always the awful possibility that you might not pass...

Good luck!!

N :ok:

[foghorn]

Advice taken on board! As an oldie with an impending young family and a wife's career to think about, I think I might have slightly different accommodation criteria to those who are young, free and single :)

Looking forward to college massively. Moving around a lot during the course and being posted somewhere else after it are just things that have to be dealt with at the time.

cheers!
foggy.

[Billy Onions]

Can any of you signed, sealed and delivered people flesh out the paperwork that needs to be done after passing interview and before full acceptance. I ask this because honesty is not always the best policy and having given my employer the nod to make their life easier by saying I shouldn't be in their long term planning as I am having a career change and will be leaving in February or so next year they have decided that in fact I will be finishing next Monday and to complete my being :mad: over have rung my clients to begin the bad-mouthing process.

Wonderful stuff - so really what is the procedure regards referencing/security etc. How long to do & get - anything I can be doing to push it along. Cheers everyone and my God I'm hoping to get on in March rather than June now. Keep the English contingent up a bit eh lads;)

and lasses - I\'m sorry:rolleyes:

[Hurn-ia]

damn right you pay council tax, ever since bournemouth council found out we get "big wonga"........Course 201 gets the reference!!
as for accomodation, ive got lucky with a swanwick placement but a lot of people are in for some major headaches, so dont get tied down.. chrisf/scuzi know what they're talking about. for a change :-p

another thing ive realised though, you people starting on december 6th arent going to have much fun running around new place with your undercarriage freezing off... wonder how they'll overcome that?

[foghorn]

BO - I was in a similar position with regards to informing my employer and getting a reference from them. I needed to know that as many ticks were in the right boxes as possible before I gave NATS permission to contact them so that I could tell them that I'm leaving.

They still haven't taken up my employer reference but they told me that it was all that they are waiting for.

As for us English yes we need to keep things up, looks like there are lots of Scots on the course, I'm sure that's going to make for plenty of friendly pub banter. That's as long as there are no Lancastrians on the course :mad: :yuk: :}

[Hurn-ia]

Boss asked you to leave? I tell you what, opt for approach for your nearest Airport. When you validate re-route every heavy over the turd's house!!!

[sla]

Billy

Sorry to hear of your situation at work, what a crock.

I am not yet signed, sealed and delivered, but am penciled in for March. My advice is to phone up HR and keep on trying every week or so if you aren't yet on March. You never know what reshuffling will be going on. I have had my medical in August, but security clearance and references are completely out of my hands now, forms have been filled in and the rest is up to HR. Have you filled in your security questionnaire, if not phone up and ask for one, and for a letter regarding the medical. Mine all happened fairly soon (month or so) after I was accepted. I don't know that they do have a system of putting you down for a course when everything is completely ready, of course it would help, but I'm sure once you get through to someone they would at least be sympathetic to your plight and see what they could do. Good luck.

[Hurn-ia]

Nuisance, hmm, i wonder who that could be....Run for the hills before it's too late :-p

[Scotsliveit]

Aye boys the Scot's are coming. You'll be out for a few in Kbar etc with us young free and single team mates don't you worry foggy baby.

I'm sorry to hear what's happened Billy. I've told NATS not to request my references until my place is confirmed.

I am tho making moves to begin selling my flat. This means that the March start is essential. I could always rent tho or move back to Mama's (nightmare there goes the sex life).

If though HR took my references, I handed my notice in and then they changed the start date I'd be slightly miffed. Fingers crossed. Apparently it's Jan 2005 we'll receive written confirmation.

[Nuisance]

This means that the March start is essential.
Listen & learn - don't commit to any dates yet... HR will change their minds with the weather!!!;)

[Scotsliveit]

Aww the HR lady seemed so sincere as well about March. I would have bet my mortgage on it.


Hold on I am gambling my mortgage on this :confused: :ok:

[foghorn]

You and me both, pal :) I've been signed up for March for months now. So I expect that now that I've started committing to plans to move down there I'm ripe for moving to a later course, then ;)

[dingerc]

Afternoon folks... I'm a bit late in joining this thread but I'm another of the March or June starts next year and thought it's about time I said hello!

It's been great to read about all you other guys/gals in the same position as me. I'm 27, currently working in I.T. in Belfast and thought it's about time I did something about it before I suddenly wake up to find that I've spent 30 years in a career I have absolutely no passion for whatsoever. Moving away from my family, my life long friends and taking a salary cut for a few years would understandably strike some people as being a little reckless but surely we can't all be mad or they'd never have let us in in the first place!

I'm well up for the challenge and am looking forward to the change of scenery and a bit of fun along the way. And I just read last week that Jet2 are starting direct flights from Belfast to Bournmeouth from next March so it's obviously meant to be... That'll make things easy when I'm pining to get home the odd weekend for a proper tasty Guinness. I do have one major concern right now though... Southampton are in severe danger of relegation and I was kinda looking forward to seeing some regular Premiership footie next season... ;)

On another note... did anyone have any bother reclaiming their travel expenses from the medical? I did mine in August and am still waiting for reimbursement for the flights, despite several gentle reminders to HR. That extra £130 would certainly add a bit more festive cheer to the month of December.

Bye for now,
Dave

P.S. If there are any Irish folks out there who are starting next year I'd like to hear from you. I see the Scots have already found a few pals!

[sla]

I did my medical in August and got the travel expenses a couple of weeks ago.

[Fletchers Left Boot]

Dingerc,

There is a perfectly good League One side in Bournemouth - (just ask Blackburn Rovers :D ) with a bit (ok.. a lot!) of luck they'll be in the same division as Southampton next season.
Who needs the Premiershi*?

[Scuzi]

Dingerc -
I was the same as you, moved from an IT job in NI to do this. All I can say is that I have no regrets whatsoever, the move is well worth it. I'll be back in the college by March from Ops Famil. and will be taking advantage of Jet2's flights. Up until now I've been flying with FlyBE from Southampton.

Good luck! :ok:

[Winter2004]

Hello people!

A couple of weeks ago I received the congratulations email from NATS saying I'd got through the interviews etc, and was expected to be in for a course start date in 2005.

Obviously I'm over the moon but was wondering (approximately) how long it takes until you're called for your medical and when you found out which course you are actually penciled in for? I'm expecting it to be late next year, Oct/Dec time?

I'm religiously checking my email for information but don't want to hound the HR people!

Thanks for any info you can give!

Best of luck for March,

Winter

[dingerc]

Congratulations Winter!

I found out I was in about mid March this year, had my medical in August and received a phone call in September to see if I could start in June 2005 - I'm told this may well be brought forward to March. There seems to be quite a variation in the timelines for everyone though...

D

[Scotsliveit]

Yeah Dingerc is right. The times can really vary. I don't no what logic hr use in constructing the courses.

I waited the whole summer since May for my medical. Just had it last month. I actually thought they had forgotten about me and I began to pester them towards the end.

I think hr are used to being pestered, they've got a chilled vibe when you ask them exact questions.

Dingerc a few of us Glasgow lads are starting to go for beers together. If you are over from Belfast before March give me a shout and we'll get something sorted.

Talking about pay on the course. Was it the case that you used to get a payrise on the course after you passed the Radar modules or something, is this still the case?

Also anyone at CATC at the moment on the lower salary, just to confirm that you are paying council tax.

[foghorn]

Just spoken to HR. For those on the March course they are chasing up all outstanding referees, medicals etc before Christmas. We should expect to get full confirmation and a welcome pack from the College itself in January.

Their advice was not to make any commitments for the March course before then.

[tired-flyboy]

Yea you will pay council tax and all your other bills unless your lucky to get an all inclusive rent!

The salary goes up in Jan to the dizzy heights of £14.8k a rise of £0.4k.

there are no rises until you complete the college element of training and only then will you move up to a payscale.

I think it goes form £14.8 to £25k not including allowances (if you get into the higher band units)

sorry don't know what the lower rates are as the majority on 201 are going to Area units.

Ah more Scots - the place is being overrun!! (at last!)

:ok:

[bmb7jiw]

Yeah HR are.....weird to say the least. They have not got a good reputation with the students really, especially with course 201.
Personally I was really lucky. I only applied in March this year, had my tests in April, interview in May, and by sheer luck I got on the September course this year. I think if you keep contacting them, saying that you could start at a moments notice etc etc it might get you in quicker- it seemed to work for me.
Good luck to you all, its definitely worth it when you get here!!!

bmb7jiw

[greig]

Hi everyone,

I'm another person late on this thread, another one from north of the border and another one on the March course!

I'm really glad there are a few others starting to get a bit nervous about starting, and what I 've read on some of the threads has really help answer a few questions. I had been planning to sell my flat up here and buy near Bournemouth, but now hearing how much time we could spend away from Bournemouth I think I'll just keep the flat in Glasgow and rent down south. I dont fancy forking out for a mortgage in Bournemouth as well as rent where ever i'm training. My girlfriend had thought about come down with me but with the uncertainty of me being about she is more likely to be staying in Glasgow. Her mates can move into the flat and pay my mortgage!!

I passed selection on second attempt in May and passed medical in August so a March start date was earlier than I had been told to expect. June or Sept 05 was more likely. I seem younger than quite a few of you at 24 which I didnt expect as alot of the people I went through selection at were younger than me. I guess I'll just have to wait till March to see if I recognize anyone.

Anyway, I 've just been reminded about references and cant even remember whose names I put down, its that long ago I filled out the application. Had better call HR tomorrow and see what is happening with it. I should here back about mid January I previous calls to them are anything to go by! At least I dont seem to the only person having that problem.

Really looking forward to meeting up with everyone in March and getting started with our training. I'm sure we'll be reading a few more threads from each other in the next couple of months as March gets closer.

Bye for now and enjoy your Christmas

Greig

[stevethescotspilot]

Greig, check your PMs!

[mickrobbo]

Guys, fyi about buying, renting down here....I started on the dec 6th course, and on our induction week we were told that renting was not a wise idea as you could be put on hold after the introductory course (9wks) to ACC's or Airports anywhere in the UK and will only get paid weekly accommodation for 1 place, not your home in bournemouth and in whereever they send you...also your flight training is not necessarily in bournemouth, we have been given the option of bournemouth, manston, high wycombe.

just an fyi to you guys planning on making the big move.

[dannyo]

Such a fine, upstanding, helpful chap you are Mick! ;)

We've been in for 3 weeks now (and man has that gone quick!!) and its grand!! Money is going to be tight yes but you won't be out in the evenings spending it! I'm not the only one on the course who's spending at least 2 hours a night studying. (stop smirking robbo!!!!)

Renting is not the way forward althought there are folk who are doing so. Mick is right, you could end up paying for 2 lots of accom with only 1 WAP to cover it! There are some short term holiday lets available but they may be a touch pricey come the summer months.

Right, what are those 50 aircraft all about??!!

[Scuzi]

How has everyone found it so far? Have you been told how many are being split for Aerodrome / Area disciplines yet?
Good luck with the rest of the intro course, we (201 area) might even meet you in February :E

[Inverted81]

50 aircraft.....mmmm the memories....


:cool: ;)

[Scuzi]

I bet there's people walking around the college in a daze, mumbling to themselves;
"Falcon 20 light forty five forty seven"

:}

[Scotsliveit]

mmm 50 aircraft sounds daunting. I had heard about this though.

Excellent to hear from you guys in the college. Are you all staying in B&B then?

What's CATC like? Only seen it from the outside is it big inside?
Is the canteen just like school?

Questions, Questions, Questions

What did you guys do on the induction week at the hotel? DRINK ;)

Good to get more feed back from you december sixers.

You don't have to pay council tax if you stay in a b&b do you?

[gilaine]

Alright Scots mate

I'm not in a B&B, I have a flat, apparently i have to pay council tax but i've not gone out of my way to look for it yet. I know, I'll get a big fat bill in a few months time but not caring right now.
It's a riot at CATC, the instructors are absolutely top notch, really know their stuff and approachable to boot.
It's all shiny and new and hi-tech inside. The food is actually very good (when you can tear yourself away from the fag conservatory long enough to go and eat), all subsidised so nice and cheap. But the sausages taste of gas. But only me and the lover of chickens seem to have noticed. It's very odd.
And you asked about week 1 at Meon Valley... a few drinks and inappropriate conversations were had. But what else would you expect?
Actually, Top Team were great, I and many others thought it would just be some schmaltzy american style group hugging pap but it was really fun. And we learned a lot. Like the fact that me and dannyo shouldn't try to work together when we're both tired!

Relax. It's worth the sacrifices.

[Scotsliveit]

Cheers Gilaine

thanks for the feedback it's much appreciated. My excitement is showing through which is rare.

Good to know that the sacrifices about to be made are worthwhile, what a buzz.

How is the work? Are all you guys getting two hours of homework everynight?

[Inverted81]

I've just finished intro with 201,
As regard to "homework" its not work given to you, its what YOU decide you want to do to study. With regard to how long you spend studying, its upto the individual.
Personally, i found i didn't need to study too much in the first 5 weeks or so. Just enough to get through the progress tests etc, then i knuckled down towards the end and the dreaded multi topic paper (be warned its a hell of a subject to study for... so much info to learn) :mad:

Luckily i did well, so alls well that ends well! :}

The key thing really is not to become Hermit like, study in a group or with a couple of people, i was sceptical at first, but IT DOES HELP, as people come up with questions you may have forgotten. This will also help tremendously for your Oral Board at the end of the course.

Hope ur all enjoying it nd see you in Feb!!
81

[Satanslittlehelper]

My advice to you all is to get to know people from the other courses!!! You cannot learn in isolation and there are loads of people around the college who have experience holding at various units, and have had the opportunity to do some OJT. There are even some ex-approach controllers I believe on area courses. It's always useful to be able to pick each others brains, you never know what gems of knowledge you may pick up. Look into a visit to other sim rooms, with the permission of the course manager of course . . . . and never, ever assume you know it all!

Your time at the college will be over all to quickly, so enjoy it!:D

[Gonzo]

Your time at the college will be over all to quickly, so enjoy it!

Except if you're one of the unlucky ones who has to hold between every course and ends up still at the college two and a half years after you began! :}

[Satanslittlehelper]

yes, very good, always the smarty pants Gonzo . . . . put everyone off before they've started why don't you

[Gonzo]

Okay, perhaps I could have expanded, and I certainly wouldn't want to put anyone off; I loved my time at the college. I'm not sure how it will work with the new style courses, but I personally know a few who, even though they passed every module, still had to hold after nearly every one and also undertake an extension to their OJT. There's a financial consideration there too, of course.

Two and a half years at CATC can be quite wearing after a while, especially when you see people from your original course valid and earning far more than you!

If you want to start flinging personal remarks around, Satanslittlehelper, PM me, there's a good chap.

[sla]

:{ Well I won't be along in March after all. Anyone else in the same boat? March course is apparantly all destined for airports. I'm so dissapointed.:sad:

I was starting to hope for my letter of confirmation, and now I can't even be confident of June.

Anyway enough whining. I hope everyone starting in March has a great time and I'll see you all a bit later!

[foghorn]

Had the same call myself. March is airports only and a small course; it looks likely that June will be too.

So do I go for airports and risk being posted to places I don't want to live, or do I sit around for the next area course which could be September? Especially now that my replacement in my current job has started (today!) so I have no job.

Choices, choices.

[Scotsliveit]

Yes guys we all got the same call this morning. All of us March starters have been told it's an airport only course and we have until Thurs to decide to take it or not.

It's obvious that we all wanted area and are severely gutted. I've been told June but who knows. We've basically gone from a few weeks wait to possibly well over half a years wait till september.

I'm gutted, also a bit angry that hr were requesting my employers references before christmas, if I had given them my permission which I didn't I'd be up the creek.

All us Scots in glasgow who've been drinking together have received the same news. All gutted.

What's your plans now people? Anyone taking the airport course? I can't start of my new career on the wrong foot like this.

Called CATC spoke to a few people. March being all airport was in the pipeline for a couple of months but hadn't been fully ratified (still isn't apparently maybe if we all say no they'll re-access and make it area or mixed :E )

We were told to expect hiccups, doesn't help though. Gone from starting in six weeks to more than six months with no guarantee.

In the past students didn't really get a choice of area or aerodrome whereas we're getting this choice before we know enough depthabout either apart from mobility.