Sabena Strike?!?!

[ironbutt57]

Se CNN...ground personnel protest proposed job cuts at Sabena? HELLO...from an airline that has never "suffered" a profitable quarter in it's history? Are these people on drugs? Time to wake up and smell the coffee people....

[The Guvnor]

I tell you, Ironbutt57, these people are unreal - just like the EAL workers. Swissair had its arm twisted until as they say the pips squeaked to come up the cash to bail out SN and this is what the ungrateful f*%^%£s do?? :mad: :mad:

Fire the lot and close down the company. It will save the Belgian taxpayer billions and the Sabena passenger many hours of discomfort, misery and the pain of having to deal with their (frequently) obnoxious staff.

[LimaNovember]

When Swissair sent Mr. Reutlinger to BRU he managed, as far as I can remember, to bring some black numbers for a quarter. But then it was back again to the favourite and normal red colour. I have done a contract with Sabena a few years ago, and I guess I can write a bestseller about this company. How about "Sabena - no wonder they do not make money" or "Sabena - the perfect example of the pyramid turned upside down" ;)

[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: LimaNovember ]

[SOPS]

Come on guys, this is a wind up right? You know these people are not serious are they?....they not really thinking about it naaa?? :eek: :eek: :eek:

[HotDog]

I have been severly let down by Sabena maintenance error once in Brussells which forced a return after dumping 65,000kgs of fuel. All they could say was Sabena is sorry! Never did trust them after that, no wonder they are broke.

[N380UA]

Hey guys let Sabena do what ever it wants! They need to learn on their own, can't always throw money at them. Its like with little children, let them stick the coin into the socket; see how that feels! Hurts like a bi** huh? Well that'll teach you! Sorry Sabena, that's life…. :D

[TERRIE]

FAO The Guvnor

If I was a Belgian tax payer I would be furious at Sabena's total lack of respect. As soon as the government agrees to fund them (offcourse by the tax payer) the dumb shi*s go on strike and blow the cash.

Sabena has always historicaly stood for "Such A Bloody Experience Never Again"

Isn't it about time that Mr Muller took heed of this, ignored the persistent whingeing of the arrogant and stupid BCA and the national unions, and fired the lot?

Has anybody ever heard of an ex-patriate Belgian???

[jet jock]

Got to agree with Terrie

Where do these people get off?!?

Never come across any ex-pat Belgians, myself. I don't reckon they'd last five minutes in another country. Not enough strikes...Too much reason...

I feel sorry for the expats working IN Belgium. Let's hope they can just go about their business whilst all these nutters run around in circles killing themselves!

[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: Jet Jock ]

[BLEKE]

dear all,
yes i have been a belgian expat
quit liked it and even want to go back to
that status soon
still hope sabena gets saved by common sense though :)

[LimaNovember]

Good comments all over. Giving me a good laugh :D Nothing to do with Sabena directly, but a friend of mine working for Virgin Express in BRU told me that VE brought in 17 captains for a sim screening/evaluation. All 17 were sent home without being offered a contract :confused: Did they pave the way for their own elite coming from City Bird or Sabena ? They never liked foreigners in Virgin Express, did they.

[The Guvnor]

Actually, I know loads of Belgian expats - mainly in Burundi, Rwanda and the DRC. Interesting people! :D :D :D

[jet jock]

Spot on... and it's not just V.Ex either! A friend of mine is working for another Belgian carrier that uses a lot of ex-pats.

Some of their Belgian FO's are totally fanatical BCA members and are regularly telling the rest of the crew (including the Captain) how all ex-pats should be booted-out of the country in order to make room for more Belgians.

How's that for harmony on the flight deck!

If I had an FO like that I'd kick his butt!

[LimaNovember]

JJ,

spot on. But not only that; those with french as their mother tongue have a BIG problem to carry out a normal conversation in english, on and off the flight deck.

By the way, name one famous person from Belgium, or a famous landmark or something this country is known for around the world. You can not? Well, there you go.......... ;)

[LUM]

LimaNovember, you are german aren't you?
I know one german who has been famous and well known worldwide... but I've forgot his name...intentionally

[fly4fud]

:D :D :D thought you guys were all euh.... euh.... how does one call it? Oh yeah, gottit, Europeans :D :D :D
:cool:

[The Guvnor]

LimaNovember - Tintin!! :D :D :D

Oh, and they do make exceptionally good frites as well ... excellent with mayonnaise!

[Avman]

It would be a good idea to sack those striking. Unfortunately it's not that easy in Belgium. Employees are over-protected. That's one of the fundamental reasons that SABENA is so bureaucratic, over-staffed and uneconomical. The only way out is to let the company go bankrupt and shut it down. Then start again from scratch.

[Hunter58]

It's especially stupid if you go to another airport to pick someone up who comes out of BRU (there on business!!!), and he comes with so much delay that you can just drink a coffee and wave him goodby again as he has to continue...

Oh, and I know a couple of Beligian ExPats, but they all avoid the subject of nationality!

[RegionalFlyer]

Excuse me for adding fuel to the fire but isn't that great "actor" Jean Claude Van Damme from Belgium? Hmmm.... what else, they make nice syrup waffles!

Looks like we'll be getting some more 737-200's on the cheap!

RegionalFlyer

[The Guvnor]

This is the core of the Sabena 'survival' plan:

- 1512 workers will be retrenched by the end of 2002
- 2 long haul and 7 medium haul (African and Middle East) flights will be cancelled
- Several planes will be sold
- After a few years, Sabena will buy smaller ones (if Sabena earns money again)
- Technics, Catering, Hotels, Cargo Handling and Sobelair will be sold
- And last but not least: a possible namechange.

[LimaNovember]

LUM,

Ok, so it was i bit over the top, and in a serious forum like this we should all try to stay within the boundaries of a fruitful discussion. I`m sorry, but some times you just have to let it out.

Guess what, I am not from Germany, but I guess I know the name of the famous person you`re thinking about, but he was from Austria

[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: LimaNovember ]
;)

[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: LimaNovember ]

[76-er]

Guv,
You mentioned Sobelair as a possible division of SN that could be sold off. Any idea to whom?

[Stratocaster]

Mmmh... Great post ! It will save us a lot of time next time Air France or any other state-owned airline will go on stricke. Just copy & paste, change the names, and that's it !

:D

I'm not the devil's advocate, and I certainly do NOT approve those stupid and useless strikes, but who could blame the "basic" employees ?

Maybe Chechen warlords have something to teach us here ! :D
When the Chechen took Russian prisonners, the soldiers were not hurt but the officers, those who take decisions, were pushed from the roof of the highest buildings in Grozny ("Why waste a bullet ?" they said).
;)

[Old_Belgian_Student]

tsk, tsk, tsk,...
now isn't that very un-professional like to generalise all belgians just because, and I agree to the fullest extent, SABENA used to be 100% state owned, and totally mismanaged for decades into a degree that it has become sort of a tradition... This mainly due to political influences and yes some very strong unions. Strikes are annoying and cost loads of, in this case dearly needed, money.
Mind you, SABENA isn't the only airliner which seems to be having to cope with problems. Ask former AOM or Air Liberté employers about how they think of Swissair managing their airline... Why is KLM cutting in it's routes/destinations, because it's all going so well? Why have we seen all the great national airliners seeking partners over the last 10 years?


Poor standard of general knowledge I'd say if you cannot name one fameous belgian...
There I'll help you and start of with a list of a few that directly spring to mind...
Adolf Sax, yes the inventor of the saxophone
Jacques Brel, singer/songwriter (e.g. ne me quite pas)
Simon Stevin, mathematician
Breugel, Rubens, Metsijs, Van Eyk, Bosch, all flemmish painters in the early days...
Delvaux, Magritte (ceci n'est pas une pipe), etc painters of the recent past.
Hercule Poirot? allthough fictious, I admit
Rogge, newly elected Olympic Committee chairman
Kim Klijsters, didn't she play Wimbledon this year?
Dirk Frimout, astronaut! see spaceshuttle in the 80's
By the way... not many know this, but all the www. etcetera crap wouldn't be here today if it weren't for a certain chap... from belgium!

I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, merely react to what i found was a strong feeling against anyone or anything from belgium. We're all just normal people, like anyone on this planet, and we have a few good things too... great beer, waffles, chocolates, pubs, great cultural and architectural history and heritage.

Yours sincerely,

OBS

[The Guvnor]

Here are the latest information given by the BeCA (Belgian Cockpit Association) :

Following Enterprise Council of 09/08/2001
Presentation of the Business Plan (BP)

General Philosophy

- Every aspect of the functionning of SN will be questionned
- BP will require enormous efforts
- BP wil create a completely new company
- Nothing will be the same anymore

Why?

- to stop the bleeding (220 Mio Euros for the past 9 months)
- to survive
- to get profitable --> break even expected in 2005

How?
- to focus on the core activity (airline)
- re-dimensionning LH and MH activities
- drastic increase in performance
- further cost reduction --> productivity and flexibility increase

What will remain inside the group?

- Sabena nv/sa: Flt Ops / Ground Handling / Corporate
- DAT nv/sa
- AMP (sales)

What will be traded (est.value 480Mio Euros)
- Sabena Catering, Sabena Technics, Sabena Cargo
- SSES nv/sa
- SN hotels
- Atraxis
- SLR (Sobelair)
- BFSC (fuel supplier company)
- SFA (Sabena Flight Academy --> flight and training school)

Fleet redimensoning
- LH: remaining 11 A330 (no more A340)
- MH Introducing +9 "50seaters"
+10 RJ85
+ 4 RJ100

Withdrawal of: all 737 acft (including Vex)
- 2 A320
- 3 A321
- 1 A319
- 1 DH8 (Schreiner)

Route Changes

- LH: closure of NRT and IAD
- MH: closure of FAO, BEY, CAT, BFS, VRN
- Increasing frequency on profitable routes

Impact on cockpit crews
Excess of pilots :222

Impact on cabin crews
Excess of CCM : 608

Total excess: 1421

[GustyOrange]

One of my mates was in Brussels recently and he said the only good thing about the city was the beer, however I've got a feeling that the local unions have been sampling far too much of it for their own good lately.
:D :D :D :D

[MarkD]

hope it's more of a "new company" than EI post Cahill plan :eek:

[PENNINE BOY]

Great place to work,great people,

Shame about the B.C.A. Working policies,

Night stop,then the next night you have to be back in BRU.

Only 1 sector after a night stop,

I hope they get there act together as DAT and the guys n girls that work for them are a great crowd.

[Ignition Override]

Goede Avond Vliegers: Hold it! Belgium is the result of a "shotgun marriage", two areas forced together in the early 1800s. To answer Lima November, after reading page one, Jean-Claude Van Damme, the architectural medieval jewel of Brugge/Bruges, Antwerp (more diamond business than Amsterdam)..., the chocolate, lace, excellent smaklijke eten and drinken and many goed-looking jevrouws (wish I had gone there while I was single).

Oh yeah, Corsendonk and De Coninck beer.

How about Wellington's brilliant application of his trips through the countryside with his tactical surprise at Waterloo: luckily he trained somewhere in Brussels, unknown to Napoleon.

[geronimo]

Excellent post...I haven't laughed like this for ages. No offence to SN employees but I hope Muller succeeds in his mission...Cannot visualize the Capital of the EU (BRU, before you ask) without a National Airline. Everybody comes to BRU sooner or later.

Keep the list of famous Belgians going...I have a couple but I had to dive deep into my resources as well as into the beer..
Eddy Merkcx....Greatest cyclist of all time...How do I know? Don't ask I hate the sport.
I know they have some famous artists as well but I cannot think of their names.

Great food though...I love the mussels with frits.

ge......ro......ni......mo.....over and out

[Avman]

:rolleyes: The most famous belgian of them all, still residing in Brussels should you wish to visit him, is Mannekepis!

[LimaNovember]

I would never have thought something that have to do with Sabena would make me laugh like I have done the past couple of days.

Ironbutt57,

thank you for starting this thread :)

[The Guvnor]

Here's one to get google.com melting and everyone pulling their hair out...

Name a famous - and successful - Belgian General.

Witbier for the first with the correct answer!

[Hunter58]

To stay on the serious side...

So AOM/Air Liberté and Sabena people are so unhappy about the behaviour of Swissair? Oh, so be it and f..k you! Where would these companies have been without Swissair by now? In corporate airline history, as they all would have gone bankrupt a long time ago! Why do you think they were for sale? The white knight just wanted mroe than he could pay, but interestingly all other European airlines had/have very similar strategies...

SO whaqt is teh difference? These people were able to live another couple of years on Swissair's money. They should be grateful instead of nasty.

[eagerbeaver]

LN
Thierry Boutsen, drove for Williams Grand Prix amongst others, was a very good racing driver.

Thats two now! ;)

[LUM]

Guv,
What do you mean by "Withdrawal of: all 737 acft (including Vex)" I didn't know that VEX aircraft were belonging to SABENA.

[freightdoggy dog]

Hey, Belgium also gave us the most level playing fields for all us Europeans to have a good scrap on. If it wasn't for Waterloo we never would of had ABBA!

[The Guvnor]

LUM - that's correct, but I understand that SN intends to cancel the VEX contract. Now, if that happens, I have been told that they will be liable to pay VEX €400 million in compensation. Where is that cash going to come from??

[LUM]

Correct Guv
By the way, answering to your previous question:
The famous belgian general you are looking for is General TOURNEE. If you don't trust me, get into a belgian café shouting loudly "Tournée générale"... than, You will measure the popularity of that guy.
You owe me a beer.

[cantillon]

I am amased at some of the Belgian/Sabena bashing in this thread. Some of it wouldn't be coming from those nice people at Ryanair would it?

[The Guvnor]

LUM, mon ami, c'est votre <<Tournée générale>>, hein? :D :eek: :D Je demander un Général Militaire, svp! :D :D :D

[Ididntdoit]

Slight deviation, but anyone overnighting in prestwick, go to "Caprice"-great selection of belgian beers. :) :) :)

[Mapshift]

It's a sad tale once again employees pay the price of bad management....but a strike now can only inflame the situation....

[stator vane]

Guv;

could you give some reference as to the VEX aircraft? i fly them and am told that we could actually benefit if sabena shuts down. we are told that we would have rights to the slots. i can give names to my references within the company. where do you get yours?

city bird went "chapter 11" and is still operating. sabena could possibly do the same and get out of the VEX contract and put the debt on the big long list already standing.

as to the individual people, they actually encompass quite a range of characteristics just as the americans and brits seem to, from one extreme to the other.

i understand that the Flanders area is where the industrial age actually started.

one thing i have to say, that the country takes better care of the individual worker than any other country i have known about.

sad to see the management abuse the system to their own extreme benefit, but most managements will, if allowed.

they did strike Wed, Thur, Fri and will some more from what i hear. that willingness to strike is an effort that the common worker must go through here in europe it appears. Italian ATC strikes for a few hours here and there as well as French ATC. i was told they have so many days in their contracts allocated for strikes and if they don't use them, they lose them. better than using a sick day or holiday.

:cool:

[Bokkerijder]

Wait a minute Old_Belgian_Student !

Sure Sabena isn´t the only airline with problems, but airlines like KLM and Swissair DO have a tradition of making a profit once in a while. Sabena has NEVER made a profit, except for one year. Therefore there must be something FUNDEMENTALLY wrong with Sabena.

As far as your comments about Swissair´s managing of AOM, Air Liberté and Sabena I can be short : ALL THOSE COMPANIES ARE LIKE PROSTITUTES ! There is no true love involved, the only thing these companies need is a rich idiot (Swissair) who pays for their extravagant lifestyle !!!!
Thank God that Swissair has finally woken up and smelled the coffee and is pulling the plug on these useless companies. Let´s see if, after the ´´bad managment´´ of Swissair (according Old_Belgian_Student), they can do better on their own…. I´m affraid the answer will be Chapter 11 !

Oh yeah, here´s my 2 cents worth talking about famous Belgians : What about the comicbook hero Kuifje a.k.a. Tintin !! BTW, has anybody ever tried Hougaarden Beer ? It´s great, but thanks to the lack of smart Belgian marketing, it´s hard to get outside Belgium. Belgians could learn a few things from the Dutch when it comes to marketing beer or running an airline. Heineken is awfull beer (hurts me to say this as a Dutchman !) , but you have to admit, great marketing and sales, available worldwide ! KLM flies all over the world and is a stable company. Sure, it has it´s up´s and down´s (currently down, like many others) but the product is good. Can´t really say the same about Sabena… :eek:

BTW, how´s life in ElvisTown, Ignition Override ? ;)

[ 12 August 2001: Message edited by: Bokkerijder ]

[Stratocaster]

Why did Swissair inject money in loss-making Air Liberte/AOM/Sabena/etc. ?

A) Bad decision taken by consulting companies.
B) To have access to slots and privileges of EU-members.
C) Too confident in their ability to make money even though they increase operating costs of every new partner/airline.
D) To suck the marrow of each airline before dumping it if times get rough.
E) All of the above.

I'd say "E", but I might also be disinformed by the mass media (including this forum) !
:D