VFR flying costs/taxes

[ozplane]

Like others on this forum, I took the opportunity to fly on Saturday as it was such a terrific day for visibility,albeit a tad on the cool side. So off I went for 40 minutes in the local area. Surprisingly I didn't see another aircraft and had the sky to myself. I didn't need to talk to anyone and didn't switch on the transponder. You could see fror miles and as far as I'm aware it was a safe flight. The question is with the proposed new rules about charging for ALL VFR flights, how much would this jolly have cost? Do any of you with an intimate knowledge of the proposed legislation have any feel for the possible charges?

[Aim Far]

Sounds like you did a round trip in which case the cost would be zero since AFAIK Eurocontrol currently charge by mileage between departure and destination. Of course, they may revisit that practice if they start charging for VFR.

[dublinpilot]

According to the mags, that proposal has been dropped......or as Eurocontrol put it......they had never intended to charge for VFR flights, and were just miss understood....

[englishal]

I hope that the cost factor didn't influence your use of the transponder?

Out of curiosity if you've got one (txpdr), why not turn it on?

[ozplane]

Englishal, the main point of the flight was to get the oil warm and to charge the battery. I was nowhere near an ATZ and well below controlled airspace plus as it was Saturday the RAF weren't flying. No real need for a transponder I guess but then I'm a Luddite as far as they are concerned.

[Chilli Monster]

I was nowhere near an ATZ and well below controlled airspace plus as it was Saturday the RAF weren't flying. No real need for a transponder I guess but then I'm a Luddite as far as they are concerned.

Can I suggest you have a read then of the principles behind TCAS, especially as most Police and Pipeline heli's, plus modern light aircraft (such as the Cirrus) are equipped with it.

And what's the RAF got to do with it?

[ozplane]

Oh no not TCAS again. My point was that I was having a simple VFR flight in stunning viz with not a Cirrus or Police helicopter in sight. I had my eyes "out of the cockpit" and not relying on electronics to avoid collisions. Some of us are still capable of that believe it or not. In our area the RAF are the ones to look out for as they transit at around 500-1000 feet and I thought "Buff" Hoon was buying them TCAS for the Tornadoes. But they don't usually get a fuel allowance to fly on Saturdays or so it appears.

[Timothy]

Ozplane,

I think the question is, what is the disadvantage of turning the transponder on?

[ozplane]

I guess the disadvatage is that it means the Luton and Stansted controllers have another little worm on their screens, squawking 7000, that they don't want to talk to and who doesn't want to talk to them either. As I said, I'm a Luddite as far as transponders are concerned in conditions like we had on Saturday.

[rustle]

Actually, Timothy, the question is: Do any of you with an intimate knowledge of the proposed legislation have any feel for the possible charges?

Your's is an entirely different question altogether. :8

[Aussie Andy]

Ozplane,

I suppose you might feel a bit narked that everyone has picked up on and is reacting the fact that you didn't have your transponder on, and you are strictly within your rights as it's not mandatory in this country except in some controlled airspace. But I would like to add my voice to the others: why wouldn't you put your transponder on?

I guess the disadvatage is that it means the Luton and Stansted controllers have another little worm on their screens, squawking 7000They will have your "little worm" on their screens regardless... seeing the worm squawk 7000 - especially with a mode C altitude readout - will be more helpful than wondering what the return is and whether it is encroaching on CAS.

Your transponder helps the world around you... for example, an area controller dealing with traffic far above you may get a primary radar paint from you, but without your transponder altitude information he/she won't be able to tell what level you are at, and this might lead to unnecessary diversions.

Also, just because its a blue sky day doesn't mean that there aren't other VFR users outside controlled airspace who would not also benefit from your transponder output alerting them to your presence... personally I sometimes find that blue sky days can be even harder to spot other traffic especially if the dazzling sun was behind you, and if I was in something equipped with TCAS (such as Cirrus already mentioned) then it would be helpful if you showed up.

It's not the end of the world, but seems silly not to turn it on if fitted when that won't cost you anything?

Happy landings!


Andy

[englishal]

I'm not having a go, I just think that if you've got one, you might as well use it.

Someone in a TCAS equipped a/c might descend onto you from above and behind as they have their eyes firmly in the cockpit, and that would really spoil a lovely sunday afternoon ;)

Cheers

[ozplane]

Thanks rustle, I'm glad somebody has picked up on the point of my initial post. What I was getting at was that I'd had a very pleasant flight which didn't involve the REQUIREMENT for a radio and transponder. My feeling is that as I hadn't used any services what will be the charging regime when EASA get their hooks into this sort of flight which was absolutely legal as the rules stand at the moment.
PS I'll use the transponder when the battery is full charged (Perhaps). See my original post.

[J.A.F.O.]

If you have TCAS then people with transponders and no Mode C cause alert after alert with no clue as to whether you're about to hit them or miss them by a couple of thousand feet.

Not judging one way or the other, just raising the point.

[rustle]

My feeling is that as I hadn't used any services what will be the charging regime when EASA get their hooks into this sort of flight which was absolutely legal as the rules stand at the moment.
Aye, and there's the problem in a nutshell.

Similar in many repsects to flying a >2000kg aircraft at night almost anywhere in the UK. (Night = IFR, IFR=routecharges if over 2000kg. Night also = most LARS units closed :( therefore no service available to charge for...)

I believe the idea of charging for VFR flights has been abandoned by EASA on the basis that they never intended charging for them anyway... (like what dublinpilot said)

To answer the question you didn't ask ;) I'd use the transponder (plus mode "C") in flight whenever charging the battery wasn't a priority :)

[slim_slag]

They can come up with something like a annual fixed fee for a "VFR permit". Nothing guaranteed of course, they would not want that sort of deal.