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View Full Version : MAN- World's LEAST (Crew) favourite airport


ShotOne
9th Aug 2001, 01:04
Manchester Airport(UK) describes itself as the "World's favourite airport". Yet the staff car parks are a shambles as is the bus service which connects them. There is no staff channel and they have made a bloody-minded point of closing the "fast track" entrance to us. Does anyone else think they deserve to be awarded "least favourite" status.

faq
9th Aug 2001, 01:16
Seconded. The office staff get more status than aircrew at MAN.

Not a negative note against office staff understand, I was one once and may be again depending on my next medical but they don't work shifts 7 days a week

bertieb
9th Aug 2001, 02:25
Thirded! When they start to understand that the crew actually get there pax off the ground , then maybe they might start to make our lives a bit easier.As oposed to parking us in a very full bundu,which is only going to get further away if they get there way.

KEEP SMILING :) ;) :) :rolleyes:

[ 08 August 2001: Message edited by: bertieb ]

Pilot Pete
9th Aug 2001, 02:33
One of our captains was told to 'get to the back of the queue' and accused of queue jumping by a member of MAPLC staff the other day whilst going through the security check. He did note their name and intends to raise the matter. Does make you wonder about the self declared status!

PP

mutt
9th Aug 2001, 03:22
Many many moons ago, Manch security insisted that all of our crew members had Manch security ID cards..... they just couldnt understand that in the course of one week we would be in 4 or 5 different airports, having ID cards for each and every airport was totally impossible.

This resulted in a total crew getting refused access to an aircraft, the crew didnt care, but the 200 pax in the terminal would have created a stink.......

Manch security gave in once they were advised of the consequences of their actions....

Userfriendly........ NOPE.

alcoflyer
9th Aug 2001, 03:28
I work in ops - was going tdown to a-c to do Jepp amendments (in jeans/t shirt and YELLOW VEST) and was asked by security operative
'do you work on apron - I said no, I was going to an a-c ' and asked why - she said - 'if you work on the apron, you are not allowed to walk out through terminal, you have to go out through North Gate' - god forbid the public catch a glimpse of 'unwashed' baggage loaders or maintenance personnel - on the subject of unwashed - I think some of the MAPLC male 'gestapo' are strangers to the life buoy .......

Onan
9th Aug 2001, 03:31
:p I have no problem with the airport it's self, but I would dispute the worlds favourite tag. I mean what about Amsterdam, Singapore, Osaka, Hong Kong etc? It's the city of manchester that's the problem. Along with it's claim of "Second City" when Birmingham, Glasgow and Liverpool all have greater populations (1998 figures) than it, perhaps they mean Greater manchester. It does have the biggest (their own claim)shopping mall in the UK. I've enjoyed better lay-overs in Sudbury, Timmins, North Bay, Moose jaw, Rimouski, Chibougamou and Nitchigon than in manchester. :D :D :D

411A
9th Aug 2001, 05:21
Was it not Manchester that was voted..."most depressing city in England" just a few years ago?

BusBoy
9th Aug 2001, 10:03
All the above agreed and not suprising.

CarParking a sham, attitude to flight crew indifferent and downright obstructive at times.

Worth changing base for, the worst airport I have had the unfortunate pleasure of being based at.

Hogwash
9th Aug 2001, 10:54
bertieb

Do they have bundu in MAN? :D

addinfurnightem
9th Aug 2001, 11:01
Seriously, is there no Airport Users Committee, made up from the user airlines and various other agencies that use the airport and pay their dues? They should meet with airport management at least once a month.
You will only get things changed if the people who sign the cheques (to the airport authority)get involved and that means your airline management acting on a united front with other airlines, ideally at such meetings. Since the problem of access to aircraft hardly ever affects them they won't do anything until they are pushed, by you and your unions/associations.(Q.Why are airline management and seagulls so alike? A.You have to throw rocks at them to make them fly).
Freddie Laker once described airport security personnel as "The worst of the Unemployable"
Finally, you are up against one of the oldest and worst traits amongst different branches of aviation, sheer jealousy and a perverse delight in trying to belittle you in front of the travelling public.

[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: addinfurnightem ]

A and C
9th Aug 2001, 11:08
I just have luck to thank that i am not based at MCT the security staff are the rudest and most obstructive i have ever come across.

This attitude of macho security should be investigated by the DTI as the rift that is opening up between security and other staff makes one reluctent to report things that might have a security implication for fear of the over the top reaction that this might have.

Airport security must be a team effort if it is to be effective and cannot work properly with the "them and us" attitude of the people at MCT this has to be a trainning problem and the blame rests firmly with the management.

What can you and i do about it ? .

I sugest that next time you have a problem report it not to the MCT management who will try an agressive cover up (probably trying to take away your airport pass and so your job)but to the DTI who probably are reading this and have a good idea of how these muppets work and just need some ammunition, the aim of this is to improve security through cooperation not build a nice little security empire with a fat pension at the end for the cover your @rse types at the top.

freddyfokker
9th Aug 2001, 12:12
Manchester Disaster airport, they cant organise a thing.

Operating an aircraft at Manchester is terrible.

The taxi ways are at best a slalom. sending passangers and cabincrew form one side to another, the new runway is a disaster.

Since the new runway has opened, i have held more been routed further on arrivals and departures, increased fuel burn and experienced more delays...

The taxi across the active runway is an accident waiting to happen, the holding point and taxiway designators are confusing.

Please close the new runway and go back to the efficient arrival and departures we used to have. The new runway is not needed, several southern airports run their one runway more efficiently than Man run two.

As for security... :( :eek:

kaikohe76
9th Aug 2001, 13:31
I totally agree with all the previous messages.
Can someone confirm just who and what organisation the security staff are responsible to and exactly what rights we and the general pax have when passing through the system. For instance can we ask for the name and ID number of a member of Airport staff, who we consider to be offensive, can we dask for the attendance of a senior security official. Surely they must have some rules to abide by, but you would not think so.

Silkman
9th Aug 2001, 14:15
K76, Ultimate responsibility for aviation security in the UK rests with the DETR, who incidently ,are currently doing spot checks at MAN.As ground crew at MAN we are continually banging our heads against a wall with security.The private security companies such as ADI and ICTS seem to be far more clued up but as A&C said it goes back to the training.Without meaning to sound a snob most of the MAplc security staff appear to have been dragged out of the council estates of Wythenshawe and appear not to have any intelligence whatsoever.
Incidentally, and this is rumour,why is the worlds favourite airport about to lose PIA, Malaysia airlines and Air Mauritius ? Because it is so expensive to operate from and the facilities are so poor.Yes they will spend money on an extension to the departure lounge (which looks like an upgraded toilet block) to enable more shops and therefore more profit for Geoff Muirhead, but they wont spend any money on decent facilities for staff I.E. a decent staff car park.

Rant over !

Bally Heck
9th Aug 2001, 14:30
Oh dear.

Whilst not based at MAN, I have used it's good offices many many times.

Car parking is dreadful if you are sentenced to staff west.

Security staff? Well they have never been rude to me. I'm sure it happens, but it must be the exception rather than the rule. I find that if you are polite to people and treat them with respect, it makes it very difficult for them to treat with you contempt. (OK some people work at it)

There was certainly a staff channel in T2 last week.

How exactly is the runway system an accident waiting to happen. If you have a single runway then aircraft must enter it whilst others are on approach or on the landing or take-off roll. With MAN's two runway system this is also the case. Whats the difference?

Taxi-way designators are confusing. They were much more logical until they were changed 5 or 6 years ago. This is not a MAN problem as all airports (in the UK) have been made to adopt this appalling ICAO standard.

Now how about the baggage handling system in T2. Causes more delays than the Clacton sector on a stormy day.

The lifts in T2? I fear for my life sometimes. People certainly age visibly in the time they take to get between floors.

What is for certain is that MAN draws more flack on this forum than every other UK airport. I wonder if they are listening. :eek:

[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: Bally Heck ]

HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD
9th Aug 2001, 16:06
At least we get payed for it!Spare a thought for the pax.Try arriving at T2 with Granny,sprogs ,prams and bags then transfering to Domestic with less than 2 hours to spare.Count the lifts,enjoy the view of the dungeons,chat to Vasco de Gama who is lost around Airtours checkin.Fun for all the familly.

Onan
9th Aug 2001, 18:22
411A

I believe you are right, in my own experience manchester is the fourth most depressing place I have layed-over in the last 15 years. The three ahead of it, in order, are Kabul, Mogadishu and Banjul (Bathurst). I much prefer MAN as crew rather than as a pax.

Mancheste as a whole (hole) does seem to exagerate, worlds favourite airport and UK's second city, are just a couple of it's false claims but they are also self delusioned with it. I ask you, who in their right mind would consider Manchester for the Olympics? Yes I know, it was just an attempt at garnering some publicity, but they coudn't even get that right, receiving nothing but derision from world sporting circles. But they do have the UK's biggest shopping mall :D :D

sudden twang
9th Aug 2001, 20:09
MAN not far from LHR .....not far enough

bagpuss lives
9th Aug 2001, 22:09
freddyfokker - hmmmmmmm you must be one of the the first to truly complain about new runway ops - especially considering you reckon you're being delayed 'cause of R2 :(

Without wishing to sound in any way aggressive or "snotty" (that is not my intention at all - I am intrigued) I cannot for the life of me think of why you feel you have been "routed further on arrivals and departures".

We have the hard facts to prove that much much much less holding has been taking place and departures certainly have not been re-routed by any considerable amount - infact only the introduction of the HONILEY SID has affected the departure track mileage at all. And even that should be applauded a little given it's reason for introduction being 100% environmental.

Surely you cannot be serious (man)??

Arrivals are not being vectored in any way differently to how they were pre-R2 and the location of the actual holds has, of course, not altered either.

So that's the arrivals and departures dealt with!

As for being efficient I think you will find that our movement rates have shown a vast improvement post-R2 (back me up with figures here some kind colleague please!), we actually broke the movement record only last week :)

Whilst admittedly there are some small issues "perhaps" regarding ground movements and allocation of stands, I am somewhat surprised that you don't believe things on the ATC / flight ops side of things are efficient.

I am also most concerned as to why you find the holding point and taxiway designators so confusing....seriously. If you have any ideas on how they can be vastly improved please please let us know - we do realise that there may be some confusion regarding the new crossing points et al and yes, the taxiway numbering system is not what you would call perfect! What is it though you...or anyone else....finds confusing and so dangerous about them? Please tell us so we in ATC know and can perhaps do something about it!

Drifting back on topic for a moment I totally agree that the car parking difficulties are a pain in the a**e, the rumours drifting around about Burtonwood (yes, that's Burtonwood folks!) are surely not for real?

Can't really comment on security....every time I have been airside (not that often) all has been fine.

Hope this helps anyway freddyfokker - any constructive input greatly appreciaited - as I said ;)

Oh yes and I know for a fact MAPLC are most definitely "listening" here.......hullo :p

<Good job I don't get paid to spell x2!!!!!!>

[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: niteflite01 ]

[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: niteflite01 ]

Airborne Hamster
9th Aug 2001, 22:25
In having moved around the country from South to (very) North to (fairly) South again ie. Manch.,I have to say that so far the security staff at EGCC haven't yet pis*ed me off (wood touching).However,recently on about my second day there I approached staff west to be confrounted by a bus blocking the entrance to the carpark only to be told that it was FULL!I said 'I'm staff,mate' flashing my pass.The guy said 'I know,and it's FULL!'

Is this a regular occurance? When is the (distant) Eastern carpark opening? :confused:

Wee Weasley Welshman
9th Aug 2001, 22:28
Makes Stansted sound like a joy. I have a 4 min/4mile drive, park within 500m of the front door which is 250m from the flightline. The security staff are chirpy and polite and on the one or two occassions where I have screwed up they have covered my mistake.

Just saying,

WWW

Wasps
9th Aug 2001, 23:56
I am glad somebody else started this thread because I was about to do it.

I know for a fact that MAplc managers read pprune so, everyone, feel free to let off steam. They have, in the past, asked airline staff to be careful what they write here!

The 'worst airport' status starts and ends with the staff car park (why do they have speed humps along the sections that staff use and nowhere else?), plus:

crew access through the terminal (lack of),
lack of aircraft stands - remote parking,
lack of passenger seating in the T1, but plenty of room in the shops,
lack of air conditioning in T1 and pier B,
the various types of aircraft stand guidance from mirrors (applicable to certain unspecified types), papa boards and marshallers. Visiting pilots get confused.

There are more items but cannot think of them right now. Will add to the list as I remember them.

The appeal of a small base is very attractive right now.

E cam
10th Aug 2001, 01:00
MAPLC managers should take a trip to Gatwick and see how a proper airport's managed!

cabin lad
10th Aug 2001, 01:48
All I can say is that "attitude breeds behaviour" Agreed, the car park system is a nightmare. The staff at MAN are the nicest people you can come across. I have worked on the ground and now aircrew. When I was on the ground some airline staff approx 50% thought the airport was built for them. I know we all are very busy people and normally in a rush to get to the gate etc. but remember it cost nothing to be polite! ;) ;) :D

freddyfokker
10th Aug 2001, 01:52
Re Manchester

Sids not too affected Stars espescially easterlies, this is where the main extra routing occurs. In 6 yrs flying in and out of Man I never held once, and this is doing several sectors a day.
The Stars were never programmed in the FMS as we never flew them, ATC was great and we were always had straight in or just minor delay, now when landing on easterlies you seem to do a tour of northern england, and the westerlies are holding more and more... ok traffic increases but this happened at the same time as the new runway opening.

Re taxiways.. Ok you have limited room, but try following the yellow lines from the stands to a westerly departures near the pub... its very uncomfortable.. please give some thought to straightening these out.

Holding points and markings.. yes I agree the ICAO system is terrible, has anyone ever thought about painting the taxiway designator next to the yellow line on the concrete ?

Holding points for runway crossing, are unclear as many have the similar letters. someone will cross one by mistake.

There is one controller who instead of giving taxiway names says ' second left first right stand 4 .. Oh how nice.

Security... a law unto themselves. Asfor security codes on airbridge doors, how are we supposed to get out. Is there a journal to all airlines so everyone knows the codes ( even visiting crews )

Having said all that... I feel better now... ATC are great and they do try to help, its just the system..

skymarshal 1
10th Aug 2001, 02:02
Yet another post from the sad old t***** called 411a.

Where do you get your facts from Regarding Manchester, a City far more interesting and entertaining than that s***hole state called Arizona.

If you make a post on this forum please back up your comments for us mancunians.

FYI
Manchester has largest and most successful airport outside london and set to overtake LGW

Ranked 7th best airport in Latest IATA global survey of airports

Re Staff car park West

Why so many complaints on this forum about this car park? Many other airports around the world use this system of coaching staff from carparks or do Man flightdeck require a red carpet from the multistorey.

saddles
10th Aug 2001, 03:34
skym 1, but not the fastest growing matey, LPL. :D

411A
10th Aug 2001, 06:04
skym1--
The comment about MAN being the most depressing city in England was published in, I believe, The Sunday Times, over two years ago. Would have to agree with many comments here regarding the security staff at the airport, many have a rude and snotty attitude. Have passed thru MAN many times and it seems to get.....worse. :eek:

cossack
10th Aug 2001, 13:08
freddyfokker
All I can say is that if you've never held in 6 years at MAN, then you've been lucky!

As my colleague has already said there is more traffic, not a huge amount, but more nonetheless. Air holding on a normal day is reduced to almost nil instead of the 10-20 minutes which was commonplace before. Like I said, you've been lucky.

Departure queues are still there caused by the introduction of the HON routing, but we're working on improving that. Departure queues on easterly dual ops are almost non-existant.

Single runway movement rates reached 50+/hr regularly and peaked at 60 last September. This year there have been peak arrival rates of 36/hr and similar departure rates, although not simultaneously. Ground congestion is becoming a problem and will hold back the growth in runway movements.

When approaching from the east as you will do mostly, we do try to give a "straight-in" whenever possible as it gets you away from the POL region where at times there can be an awful lot going on. On easterlies we can accept you on a downwind heading but if there is a lot of traffic ahead of you then it won't happen. You will end up either on the STAR or direct BURNI. 90% of the time you won't reach BURNI and you'll be doing 250kts+, so what's the gripe? Nobody else does as well as you getting 300kt straight-ins 50% of the time on westerlies.

Taxyways:
We (ATC) didn't design them;
We can't straighten them;
We have asked for painted taxyway letters and arrows at some intersections;
We have asked for more holding points to avoid " hold beam..." clearances;
We have produced a modified, less confusing layout which still conforms to ICAO requirements (3 years ago!).

"Right left right left stand 7" sound familiar? :D

This has moved off the original topic of the thread, but its not all bad at MAN, as some would have you believe!

rhythm method
10th Aug 2001, 13:49
Skymarshall 1.

No, flightdeck staff at MAN do not require a red carpet to get from the carpark to the crewroom. However, as aircrew, we have to use Staff Wales every bl**dy day, it adds probably 30 minutes to reporting time. You probably don't know the fatigue most of us are getting in our own jobs at the moment. Working to our legal maximum hours, often with minimum rest to boot. Do I need to even venture into the stress that this carpark causes. How many times have you seen someone running like mad to get to the door of the bus before it drives off? How many times I've managed to get within about 20 yards when it disappeared in a plume of diesel fumes!

As I've said, the aircrew use the carpark every day, yet Joe Public, who travels on average only once or twice a year, get closer parking. Used to be we could walk from the carpark to the crewroom, but by shoving us 1.5 miles away, we've lost that option. We should be bussing passengers and letting staff park closer. And while we still have Staff West, why are there not even enough spaces to cope?

:mad: grrr :mad: grrr :mad: grrr :mad: grrr :mad:

spud
10th Aug 2001, 14:50
Is it just me or have other people noticed that the tug drivers watches all run 20 mins slow.

'For your comfort and convenience, the tug will be at the aircraft just as your slot expires'

Par for the course in President Blah's 'For your comfort and convenience the next train is cancelled' country I regret to say.

northern boy
10th Aug 2001, 22:50
Quite agree that EGCC is a shambles however some on this thread use that as an excuse to have a pop at the North in general and Manchester the city in particular.I dont think that London or large swathes of the South have anything to crow about when it comes to quality of life,unless of course you like overcrowding,obscene house prices,flooding etc etc.

The Guvnor
10th Aug 2001, 23:08
You lot should move up to PIK! Lovely long runways, terminal building is a fantastic retro-1950s design; none of those new fangled airbridge thingies; and you can buy a house, have a night in the boozer and a haddock supper and still have change from a Scottish 100 note! :D :D :D

Scottie Dog
11th Aug 2001, 00:00
Cossack

Now at least I can place the voice!

Always makes me think that you should also add 'Quick March'!

Best way though - at least they know what you mean.

Cheers

Scottie Dog
:D :D :D :cool:

Onan
11th Aug 2001, 00:02
northern boy

One doesn't need an excuse to "slag" manchester (the city) it's self provides the ammunition. When a city, which would have us believe is world class, boast's a rather none descript shopping mall and a soccer team as it's claim to fame, then it is inviting ridicule. When a city portrays turn of the century (1800/1900) street cars on it's tourist postcards and travel writers call it a "airport with a city attached" then surely something is lacking, not least of all architectural excellence and cultural diversity. Also some (Mancunians), on this list, are want to exagerate a little, claims like "worlds favourite airport" and the "UK's second city" do nothing to endear them to their fellow countrymen, especially those from the cities of Birmingham, Glasgow and Liverpool, all of which have a greater population than the city of Manchester. As for the claim of being the "worlds favourite airport" how about Amsterdam, Dubai, Singapore, Tampa, Hong Kong, Osaka, Geneva, Jeddah, Houston, Dallas Fort Worth and Seattle-Tacoma to name a few? No sir, Manchester airport, like the city's tourist attractions, is a fairly none -descript airport with a very ugly, dismal, dank city attached. :D :D :D

BEagle
11th Aug 2001, 00:24
Manchesterrrr.....?? Is that somewhere north of Watford? That is, if there is anything north of Watford!

[ 10 August 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]

batty_boy
11th Aug 2001, 03:12
onan,
you mentioned mog.
when and for who?
me know it quite well
un327, amongst others.

Onan
11th Aug 2001, 03:39
batty_boy

AC Haj charter. And you?

tonyryan
11th Aug 2001, 04:42
One of the best things that happened to me in the last year is not to fly into MAN. I agree totally with all the previous comments about security staff at this hell-hole of an airport.

As there are so few manners in which we, flight crew can publicly air our appreciation of such bad attitudes and disrespect, may I make a suggestion that we have a "Rotten Egg" Roll of honour, coupled with an annual award for the worst parties in aviation. Such a system could only benefit us through the publicity it would generate.

OneWorld22
11th Aug 2001, 12:18
Someone should really make sure that the Manchester airport management see this post. There's far too many negative comments to make it just a once off complaint by one person. Unfortunately I don't think mangement will pay too much attention to comments from Aviation employees, only if passengers complain in huge numbers will they take action, which is wrong, they should lisyen to Aircrew and other airport personnel. Manchester should be bigger and better then it is, I think the point about it being the UK's second city is that you're really looking at Greater Manchester. When you add in all the surrounding Urban centres, as you must, I think the population gets up to over 3,500,000. That's especially true when looking at the airport, I mean there's no international airport for Wigan or Salford! And then when you add in the passengers that will come from the Leeds/Bradford and Sheffield areas and Liverpool, that adds up to a huge catchment area.

I've never understood why Manchester does not have significantally greater passenger numbers when taking the large population areas into account. There's also a large asian population in these areas which I would have thought would mean a far greater number of flights serving MAN from the asian carriers. It will be interesting to see how BMid have got on serving the US from MAN. I wonder what the business class load rate is compared to LHR and LGW. anyone know? Look at today, there's only three direct flights to New York and one of them originates in Karachi.

Manchester may not be the prettiest city in the world but it certainly is a city 'open for business,' there's a huge amount of wealth in the Greater Manchester area. If someone can unleash the potential there, they'll make a fortune. :)

OneWorld22
11th Aug 2001, 12:23
As for the world's favourite airport, passenger wise, it has to be Atlanta. Busiest airport in the world, yet the easiest to get around in. :cool:

northern boy
11th Aug 2001, 13:59
Onan,You miss the point, I wasn't trying to promote Manchester above any other city in the North, South or anywhere else.Just pointing out that grim horrible places aren't confined to the North of England.Ever walked round Milton Keynes? been stuck on a packed,stopped tube in 80 degrees of heat? tried to get a taxi in the centre of London or New York for that matter.

Operating out of MAN this afternoon.Huge battle through millions of passengers in T2 to get to the office.Don't suppose the places that most of them appear to hail from are so great either.

OneWorld22
11th Aug 2001, 14:51
Onan,

Maybe I'm old fashioned , but I think your comments on Manchester are incredibly rude. I'm not even a 'Manc' yet I find your comments insulting. I think it's a horrible and nasty trait to slag off someone's city or country in the manner that you are doing. Certainly if the city/country is badly run then by all means criticise the politicians or authorities, but don't ridicule the general population and their home, their city.

There is no city or country on this planet that is perfect, including your own, I won't go too deep into it, but having a preference for observing drying paint comes to mind. But you're happy there and Canada is indeed a beautiful country but it's not perfect nor is any city. I mean look where I live, nightmarish traffic congestion, ridiculous house prices, no adequate public transport, endless debates on where and when to build a national sports stadium and politicains continually 'on the make' yet I wouldn't live anywhere else and I suspect the millions of Mancunians feel the same about their city.

You had a bad experience there because you had the bad luck to be present during a football game, which could have happened anywhere in the UK or Europe. Manchester has great energy and creative talent, I mean look at the music and sporting talent they've produced.

Jesus, I'm saying all this and I'm a Liverpool supporter!!!!!! :D :D

Walk on, walk on..... :cool:

4 of 7
11th Aug 2001, 15:32
Have to agree that Manchester Airport is a shambles.

It's a shopping centre that has a park for aircraft. The so-called Security Service must rate very close to Parking Attendants for popularity.

Isn't it funny that a fair few of them seem to want to be obstructive to the very people that are the reason they've got a job. Actually its not 'funny' at all, it just gets tedious.

We are told by the Company to go to the front of the Staff entry, then get abuse or dirty looks from the very staff that are supposed to assist us get the job done.

I would love to hear from the Airport Manager/Security Manager and find out his reaction to the above comments.

As for Staff West carpark, the machines have gobbled my Card and my 'never-used' replacement twice on the trot! What's going on? Before anyone asks, the cards are kept in the little blue plastic wallet, in the door of my car.

The message from the sqwauk-box is can you go to Hale-an-Hearty House in working hours - Pardon Me? The hours we tend to work start when the pen-pushers are tucked up in bed and end when they're on their way to the pub or downing their first!

User-friendly, helpful, Favourite - I don't think so. :(

HotDog
11th Aug 2001, 16:30
One of the very few positive things about my retirement from flying is the fact that I do not have to operate into Manchester any more! The entry to gate 64 through the security checkpoint was a constant irritant prior to each flight. Having to disembark from the crew bus with suitcase and navbag in hand, you found that the door to the X-ray post was outward opening. This of course meant that you had to put suitcase on ground to open spring loaded door than dash through before it slammed on your ankles. Placing long haul size suitcase on conveyor belt you find that X-ray machine aperture is not large enough to allow entry of your suitcase. You now have to wrestle it down and drag it through metal detector gate to open it up on the other side for physical check. What a marvel of British engineering! Many of my complaints during my active flying days to the authorities went unheeded. What an absolute cheek to have sought promotion of this city as an olympic venue! Although I cannot comment about the new hotel at the airport, all the others in the vicinity are an absolute disgrace.

Vfrpilotpb
11th Aug 2001, 16:53
Hi Fellow Ppruners,
Ive just read through the thread of complaints about Manchester Airport and the staff problems that you are all encountering, I feel very sorry for you all BUT HAVE NONE OF YOU GOT ANY BALLS AT ALL, if I was to be treated how it sounds you people are , then I would have somebodies Testicles hanging from the highest point in the Duty Free area, stop being BIG GIRLS BLOUSES and kick some's Arse, once done you might even get doors openend for you!!!
:eek:

The Guvnor
11th Aug 2001, 17:01
We can tell who's had his Weetabix today, can't we, eh Peter? :D :D :D

Seriously though, he's right. It's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease!

Ringwayman
11th Aug 2001, 17:14
As for the claim of being the "worlds favourite airport" how about Amsterdam, Dubai, Singapore, Tampa, Hong Kong, Osaka, Geneva, Jeddah, Houston, Dallas Fort Worth and Seattle-Tacoma to name a few.

Here are some of the MAN's achievements and awards since 1990:

2001
European Airport of the Year - Institute of Transport Management

2000
IATA Global Monitor Airport 2000 survey: 5th place

1999
Silver Award for Best Airport in Europe, Middle East and Africa at OAG Airline of the Year Awards

1998
IATA Airport Monitor Survey 1998: 3rd place

1997
IATA Airport Monitor Survey 1997: 3rd place
Best International Business Airport, Business Travel World Award
TTG/American Express 'Top UK Airport' Gold Award

1996
IATA Airport Monitor Survey 1996: 2nd place.
World's Third Best International Airport in 1996 (Executive Travel Magazine)

1995
IATA Airport Monitor Survey 1995: 1st place
Golden Globe Award Best UK Airport, Travel Weekly
Best Regional Airport Award, Executive Travel Magazine

1994
Best Regional Airport Award, Wagon Travel/Executive Travel
Voted Best Regional Airport by Executive Travel Magazine
Voted best UK Airport by readers of travel trade magazines

1993
Gold Award Top UK Airport, Travel Trade Gazette Express Newspapers
'Odin' Annual Award Best Regional Airport, Anglo-Nordic Times
Voted best UK Airport by readers of travel trade magazines

1992
Silver Globe Award Best UK Airport, Travel Weekly
Voted best UK Airport by readers of travel trade magazines

1991
Silver Globe Award Best UK Airport, Travel Weekly
Voted best UK Airport by readers of travel trade magazines

1990
Silver Globe Award Best UK Airport, Travel Weekly
Voted best UK Airport by readers of travel trade magazines

[ 11 August 2001: Message edited by: Ringwayman ]

Dozy Bell
11th Aug 2001, 17:22
Whoopie. It might have achieved all of the above but its still [email protected] for those who work here

4 of 7
11th Aug 2001, 17:53
Well, well, well Ringwayman

Now tell me that the people who assess Airports for their 'Ratings' go through all the day-to-day aggravation the rest of us put up with or:

Do you think that they were escorted around, used the Fasttrack, were treated to complimentary meals and drinks and were basically arse-crawled to generally.

Alternatively, ask Mrs Bloggs from Bolton how she found the whole experience - that's bound to be objective isn't it.

All these 'Awards' are excuses for qwango's at everybody else's expense.

Open your eyes and stop all the rhetoric.

A copy of this website thread has been forwarded to Manchester Airport for their comments. Let's see what they say.

skymarshal 1
11th Aug 2001, 21:57
Onan

Its clear that sad old b******s like yourself dont get out much these days.

What do you specify in your criteria of a city which is not dismal or dank?

Manchester has as many places of interest and entertainment as any other city in the uk, some better, some worse but why is manchester a favourite location amoungst students?

Its a fact that many of the worlds best airlines choose to serve this city rather than other uk cities outside London as they see the many benifits in serving Manchester which also results in passengers from other towns and cities in the uk including our 2nd city of Birmingham.

Onan, I dont know which great place you reside in yourself, but you could take a trip away from your PC to expore these places and see modern Britain.

Onan
11th Aug 2001, 22:38
Oneworld22

No other city's citizens (on this list) promote themselves and make false claims like those of Mancunian listees. And boy do they slag other UK towns. Yes I had an horrendous visit to Manchester and yes, I do think it's a s**t hole of a place. As to you reference to famous sporting personalities hailing from that place, I for one can't name any. I know soccer is big in Manchester as it is in Glasgow, Liverpool, Leeds and London also Madrid, Barcelona, Turin, Milan, Munich, Rio, Buenos Aires, Montevideo et al ad nauseum. I also know that Glasgow is famous for golfing and Liverpool for horse racing and golfing, what other sports does Manchester have other than yewnited? And before you mention it, Manchester has the Commonwealth Games because no other city bid for it.

Skymarshal

I hail from Etobicoke which is a suburb of Toronto, Ontario. Toronto is a city that is trying (ever so hard) to become a world class city. We are not yet, and likely won't be, a world class city for a very long time.
Our airport is very big/busy and getting bigger/bussier but we still don't have a rail link to it. It is presently handling 28 million pax per annum and will, upon completion of the new terminal, be capable of handling 60 million pax per annum. None of which will make us a better city than Montreal, Antwerp, Liverpool, Lisbon or Zurich but even if Toronto stagnates it will still be a better place than Manchester to live and visit. And I may have been unlucky to be in Manchester when it's soccer thugs were celebrating, but I can guarantee that you can visit Toronto after a Leafs, Argo's, Rapters or Jays game and you will not be subject to the vile, racial abuse that both my wife and I were subjected to in Manchester.
Oh and one more thing: How come your national carrier (worlds favourite airline) only flies one long haul route from your (worlds favourite airport)?
:D :D :D

[ 11 August 2001: Message edited by: Onan ]

fireflybob
12th Aug 2001, 00:59
The comments about the car park situation and security, etc. that aircrew have to suffer at MAN are quite appalling.

Are BALPA and the IPA aware of this?

Ever heard of the 80/20 rule? 80% of the effort should be spent solving the problem and 20% defining it - unfortunately it's very easy to fall into the trap of reversing the figures.

Some sort of unified ACTION is required to sort this out! How about an aircrew "sit-in" at the car park or, say, obstructing the crew buses etc. You have got to hurt the authorities and the people who "run the show" where it hurts the most - one thing they HATE is bad publicity!!

4 of 7
12th Aug 2001, 01:36
Fireflybob

Here Bob, when did you leave Greenham Common an' didn't I see you up a tree before they dug the hole for 24L?

A man after my own heart, well said sir!! :cool:

ShotOne
12th Aug 2001, 01:59
Well I am very pleased that so many people share my low opinion of the way Manchester Airport treats flight crew. But what do we do about it?

For starters, how about we all write to or ring Geoff Muirhead (0161 489 3000) to tell him how shabby his outfit is?

FLY BY WIRE
12th Aug 2001, 20:43
When will Manch. standardize the docking systems on the stands?
Came on to stand the other day (2 I think)and although there is lateral guidance there is nothing to indicate stop point (unless you count a mirror thats pointing in the wrong direction) marshaller was sitting there in his car, so we stopped short expecting him to get the hint, nothing.So we called tower to get marshalling assistance,and only then did he dain to get off his A**e and give us guidance. Unprofessional.
The airport Authority are very aware of the problems concerning stands,(cos every time you complain they just say "yeah we know, they're looking into it") but little if nothing ever gets done I just hope nobody gets hurt before they do somthing about it.

chiglet
12th Aug 2001, 23:38
Onan,
I honestly have to ask a really stupid question. Are you sure the "abusers" WERE Mancunians?
A "Football Game". Who was playing whom?
Yes, I AM being serious. Man U has a "following" NOT 100% of Manchester. Their "rivals" take great delight in "slagging" them off. Yes there ARE sh*tbags in the City [my son is a policeman in the City centre!] but please do not tar everone with the same brush. Every city on the planet has some degree of crime. EVERY CITY!
To denegrate Manchester in the way that you have, shows just how "provincial" you are.
Out of interest, your "crap" city has..
Had the first railway passenger service,
Manufactured the first "true" electronic computor,
The largest brick built structure in Europe
The founder of the Police Force...
A certain Mr Rolls and Mr Royce built their first cars here,
World class Orchestra,
ditto School of Music
You may have herad of a chappie called Alliot Verdon Roe, no? Better known as AVRO
Fairey
L.S.Lowry, Simplr Red, the Hollies, Oasis,
the Moravian movement, URC, the first "true" canal, [and the last]
Yes, the Airpor, parking etc CAN be a pain..
but don't slag the people.
By the way, Prestwick and Edinburgh have the golf courses, not Glasgow. [Manchester has 60+ within a 20 mile radius]
Sorry about the rant, but a little "tolerance" eh???
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

Onan
13th Aug 2001, 00:43
chiglet

perhaps the police officer that we complained to about the racial (oral and physicle) abuse was your son. The one who told us to ignore them and stay in our hotel. And how about our written complaint to the mayor and council of Manchester, with a copy to the Manchester Evening News that was never acknowledged by either nor published. Or perhaps you can explain why every Mancunian on this list, who has replied to my "rants", has sort fit to defend Manchester but never thought to apologize. :mad:

Propped Out
13th Aug 2001, 00:50
Have to agree with the previous comments, MAN in a nightmare to operate out of!

Staff west is an absolute joke, the reason its sometimes full is because at busy periods they open it up to the public... next time youre there take a look in the car windscreans, half of them dont have staff stickers!

The security staff most definately are rude to aircrew, its jobsworth for sure.

When are the airport management going to realise that without the aircrew, engineers, ground handling staff etc their precious airport is going to come to a grinding halt!

Heres an idea, don't worry next time you miss the car park bus or your sent to the back of the mile long que to clear security, if all the aircraft end up running an hour late the management will soon take notice when its left with a pile of a/c holding at remote holding areas for the stands to be made available!!!

chiglet
13th Aug 2001, 01:23
Onan,
Apologise for what?
Sorry, pal but if I and mine get "slagged off" I tend to 'grin and bear it' :(
I say again, are you ABSOLUTELY sure that the "abusers" were "Mancunians" or just general "Low life"?
I am proud of my City. PERIOD!
Yes, we DO have problems, as does EVERY city in the World
Your habitat is "PERFECT" then?
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

freddyfokker
13th Aug 2001, 01:59
Quote

Taxyways:
We (ATC) didn't design them;
We can't straighten them;
We have asked for painted taxyway letters and arrows at some intersections;
We have asked for more holding points to avoid " hold beam..." clearances;
We have produced a modified, less confusing layout which still conforms to ICAO requirements (3 years ago


You hit the nail on the head for the ground problems, shame the bean counters dont listen .

Regarding routings etc, i have always regarded the ATC at Man helpful and we do appreciate the straight in's at 300kt, and the downwind routings, the point is that since the new runway opened these have become the rarity and not the norm, with the extra capacity I would have thought there would have been more oppotunities, but if you are tied by environmental issues it is a shame.

Keep up the good work and lets hope someone in Managment can address the real issues on operating out of Man. I will listen out for the next right left right stand 8 but i dont go there so often now.

bagpuss lives
13th Aug 2001, 02:00
And I don't know if you were referring to me either Onan as one of your abusers but *I* certainly see no need to apologise for anything - let alone the place where I happen to work and sepnd most of my time.

I simply stated hard and true facts pertaining to EGCC which were backed up by my colleagues and those who actually know what they are talking about.

It's a shame that a lot of "other people" on this thread appear to think that just because there are problems with security and car parking and whatever else at the *airport* (note AIRPORT!) then the whole city must be a crime ridden cess pit fresh out of the dark ages and filled with drug taking, car stealing low life types in cloth cpas or wearing stripy black and white shirts emblazoned with "SWAG".

What this has to do with the issue surrounding the airport I will never ever ever ever ever never know.

I am lucky though obviously to be sharing a website with such wonderfully intelligent characters who all hail from totally crime free heaven-like utopian villages and towns and counties where the lambs skip gayly thorugh deep green pastrues under constant beautiful rainbows, where the cities are 100% perfect in every single way, where there are no homeless people, no drugs, no drunks, no social problems, where the culture positively oozes from every single pore of the county, and where the transportation system runs more sharply than the atomic clock.

Please come on chaps and chapesses - we are supposed to be "professionals" - not walking and talking tabloid merchants. We could type and type away here and still get no further with this petty debate on whos best Manchester or the rest of the world........please if you want to slag off the city or surrounding counties of Manchester, London, New York, Cairo, Tunis, Peckham or Moscow then s*d off and start a new thread in "Jet Blast" called "Lets waffle pointlessly for days and days on how scummy ********** (insert name of city here) is without getting any further and offending or boring almost everyone who bothers to read the thread"...that's what JB is there for innit?!

If on the other hand you would simply love to get back on topic and gripe - rightly - about the various issues pertaining to the *AIRPORT* <------remember what one of tnose is? in Manchester then please...play on.

Remember - let him without sin cast the first stone (or something like that!!!)

Oh by the way...isn't Liverpool absolutely wonderful? Much better than Manchester anyhow :p :p :p :p

EGCC4284
13th Aug 2001, 03:57
And next year is EGCC's turn for all those commonwealth games competitors and visitors, disable or not, and foreign airlines who have not yet had the pleasure of a remote stand, to experience the pleasures we have to offer.

SpanishFly
13th Aug 2001, 05:24
Come now Chiglet

The first passenger railway started from Crown Street, Liverpool, killing William Huskisson one of the railway's prime investors, just as it left the station on it's way to Manchester.

The worlds largest brick building (Guinness book of world records) is the tobaco warehouse located at Trafalgar Dock in Liverpool.

The Halle, way-way back under Barbaroli was world class but is definitely not any more. Now, in this country the CBSO, SNO, RPO and the RLPO all surpass the Halle.

The Chinese, Incas, Indians and Romans all had "true" canals with locking systems long before the Duke of Bridgewater built his.

Remember it's your nose that grows when you tell lies, not your dick. :D :D :D

[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: SpanishFly ]

chiglet
13th Aug 2001, 11:46
spanish,
OK, I should have mentioned Liverpool. Canals I meant in Europe, I also said "Structure" not buiding. It's the viaduct at Stockport [4mile final, 24R]
Halle, matter of opinion.
Nf01,
I totally agree, but our "colonial" friend wound me up
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy